If Prophet Mohammed PBUH was the last Prophet, why will Jesus return?

[Aleph]

Firstly, you DID NOT answer my very specific question in RED and then you went off tangentially with some presumptive hyperbole!

Secondly, just because YOU don't know that the ahadith were written in the times of the Prophet (SAW) doesn't mean it wasn't written. If you cared to check, the manuscripts of the Sahabah's OWN handwriting of the ahadith exist till THIS day. For example, one can find the manuscripts of Anas ibn Malik (RA), Abu Hurayrah (RA), Abdullah ibn Abbas (RA), Ayesha bint Abi Bakr (RA) and over 120 Sahabah in many books such as those of Ibn Abi Shaybah, Abdur Razzaq et al. You seem to be unaware that not just the Qur'an and Hadith, but even the letters and treaties of Rasulullah (SAW) in his own seal are STILL preserved till this date!

You are terribly confused and this is apparent from the fact that you are showing TERTIARY sources as "first compilations". All of the Sahih Sittah books are not PRIMARY collections, but TERTIARY collections. For example, Sahih Al-Bukhari's shortest chain of narrative (known as silsilah adh-dhahhab - or "the chain of gold") is 3 narrators between Bukhari and Rasulullah (SAW). The Sahih Sittah are ALL tertiary sources that derive their ahadith from primary sources as I have elucidated in my previous paragraph.

Your claim is as stupid as someone claiming that the mus-haf of the Qur'an found in Baghdad by Khalifah Harun Ar-Rashid is a corruption because Harun Ar-Rashid died in 183 AH which is 170+ years after the death of Rasulullah (SAW)! Clearly, the mus-haf of Harun Ar-Rashid was a TERTIARY source that was based on the PRIMARY source which is the mush-haf of Uthman (RA). By the way, the mus-haf of Uthman (RA) was compiled and disseminated at least 23 years after the death of Rasulullah (SAW).

Also, you seem to be unaware that NO sahabi/sahabiyyah had the FULL Qur'an in their presence. Hazrat Hafsah (RA) had the most complete one and even she didn't have some verses of Surah Baqarah as some of her manuscripts were either lost or damaged.

Like I said, Islam is not a kiddy matter. If you don't know the full details of the subject matter then you might as well SHUT your mouth. And please don't dodge my question; answer it. I asked you a simple question: Why is the first revealed verse of the Qur'an surah number 96 and Surah Fatiha number 1? Can you show us WHERE in the Qur'an it is said that this should be the case? Or are you going to concede that the compilation of the Qur'an was done by VERBAL instruction of the Prophet (SAW)?

Thanks.

...

 

[aazad.mubassir]

i. Sunnah and Hadith are Synonymous
The word Hadith is often understood to be a synonym for the word Sunnah. This is not correct. There is a great difference between the two not only regarding the extent of their authenticity, but also their content. A narrative of the words, deeds or tacit approvals of the Prophet (sws) is called Hadith. It does not add anything to the content of Islam stated in the Qur’an and Sunnah, the two original sources of Islam. Ahadith
(plural of Hadith) only explain and elucidate what is contained in these two sources and also describe the exemplary way in which the Prophet (sws) followed Islam. The scholars of Hadith say that a Hadith may be true or it may be false.** For this very reason, Ahadith are also called dhanni (presumptive or indefinite).

**. Mullah ‘Ali al-Qari, Sharh nukhbah al-fikr, vol. 1 (Beirut: Dar al-Arqam, n.d.), 155.

On the other hand, the word Sunnah literally means “busy path”, “trodden path”, “beaten path”. As a term, it refers to the practices of the Prophet Abraham (sws) to which the Prophet Muhammad (sws) gave religious
sanction among his followers after reviving and reforming them and after making certain additions to them.30 The Qur’an has directed the Prophet (sws) to obey these Abrahamic practices in the following words:

Then We revealed to you to follow the ways of Abraham, who was true in faith and was not among the polytheists. (16:123).

The following three aspects further bring out the difference between Hadith and Sunnah.

Firstly, while Ahadith can be inauthentic or spurious, the Sunnah cannot be so. The Sunnah is in fact as authentic as the Qur’an. This is because of the difference in the nature of transmission. Ahadith have been transmitted by a few individuals and therefore become dependent on their character, memory and intellect – all of which can falter even if the person in question is very pious. On the other hand, the Sunnah has been transmitted by whole generations to the next. Such is the vast number of people who have adhered to certain practices that there is no possibility of any error. The memory, intellect and character of a few persons can falter but when thousands of people deliver the same thing, any faulty transmission is ruled out. Furthermore, not only have a large number of people transmitted these practices, but also there is a consensus in the ummah regarding the authenticity of these practices. In other words, even people who do not adhere to these practices also vouch for their veracity.
Secondly, Sunnah is purely related to the practical aspects of Islam such as the prayer, hajj, nikah, wudu and tayammum. Issues that pertain to belief, history occasion of revelation and explanation of Qur’anic verses lie outside its domain. On the other hand, Ahadith are not confined to a certain sphere of Islam. Their content ranges from the practical issues of religion to intellectual ones and from historical episodes to explanation of the Qur’an and of the Sunnah itself.

Thirdly, the Sunnah is not based on Ahadith. For instance, we have not adopted the prayer, pilgrimage, etc in all their details because a few narrators explained them to us; on the contrary, we have adopted them because every person in our surroundings is either adhering to it or vouching for its veracity. In other words, Sunnah is an entirely independent source of Islam. However, some Ahadith may contain a record of the Sunnah just as they may contain the record and explanation of certain verses of the Qur’an. But just as having a record of the Qur’an does not make Ahadith the same as the Qur’an, having a record of the Sunnah does not make Ahadith equivalent to the Sunnah.
ii. The Qur’an should be interpreted through Hadith .
There is a group of scholars which believes that the Qur’an is depenedent on the Hadith for its interpretation and must at all cost be understood through it. However, the status occupied by the Qur’an as the mizan and the furqan entails that everything should be interpreted in light of the guidance it provides.

The Qur’an says about itself:

It is God who has revealed with truth the Book which is this scale/mizan [of justice]. (42:17)

The verse means that the Almighty has revealed the Qur’an which is a scale of justice meant to distinguish good from evil. It is the only scale that weighs everything else, and there is no scale in which it can be weighed:

Blessed be He who has revealed al-furqan to His servant that it may warn the whole world. (25:1)

iii. Ahadith are as Authentic as the Qur’an
There are scholars who believe that the Ahadith are as authentic as the Qur’an.36 This view is not correct. Whilst there is no need to investigate the authenticity of the Quran, both the text and chain of narration of a Hadith require investigation.

It is the chain of narration of a narrative which makes it a Hadith that can be attributed to the Prophet (sws). In addition to any hidden flaws in the chain of narration of a Hadith, the trustworthiness of the narrators,38 their memory and the contemporaneousness of the narrators are the three standards which should be kept in consideration in the light of the material which the scholars of Hadith have painstakingly made available. This is the standard which scholars of Hadith have put forth for the examination of the chain of narration of a Hadith, and is so sound that no addition can be made to it nor anything taken away from it.

Besides investigating the chain of narration of a H_adith, the second thing which requires investigation is the text of a Hadith. Although scholars of Hadith have left no stone unturned in investigating the characters and biographies of the narrators and have spent a greater part of their lives in this research, yet like every human endeavour, the natural flaws which still exist in the narration of a Hadith39 require that the following two things must always remain in consideration while investigating
the text of a Hadith:

1. Nothing in it should be against the Qur’an and Sunnah.
2. Nothing in it should be against established facts derived from knowledge and reason.

The Qur’an, it has been alluded to earlier, is the mizan (the scale of truth) and the furqan (the distinguisher between truth and falsehood). It is like a guardian of every religious concept and it has been revealed as a barometer to judge between what is right and what is wrong. Thus no further explanation is required of the fact that if anything is against the Qur’an, then it must stand rejected.

Just as the Qur’an is validated through the consensus of the ummah, the Sunnah is also determined from its consensus. Since this fact is an absolute reality about the Sunnah, thus if a Hadith is against the Sunnah and if there is no way out to resolve a conflict between the two, the Hadith in consideration must necessarily be rejected.

It needs to be appreciated that all the variant texts of a Hadith must be studied in order to form an opinion about it. While explaining this important aspect.

Many a time a person may form an opinion about a Hadith by not studying its variants; however, once he deliberates on all the variants his overall interpretation changes. One glaring example of this are the Ahadith which mention the prohibition of pictures and portraits. If only some of the narratives are studied, one can easily conclude that this prohibition is absolute and every picture and portrait is prohibited in Islam. However, if all the variants are collected and analyzed, it becomes evident that the prohibition is regarding only those pictures which have been made for worshipping. Many similar examples can be cited from the corpus of the H_adith literature. Thus it is essential that if one is not satisfied from the apparent
words of a H_adith, one must gather and collate all its variants to form an opinion.

No doubt "Quran is the ultimate source of Islam as a DEEN". Hadeeth provides us the details. Quran tell us about Salah, what is Salah, how to perform is written in Hadeeth books, Deen is not completed with out Hadeeth/Sunnah.

 

[atensari]

i. Sunnah and Hadith are Synonymous

Thank you for extra detailed reply, please also point out which part explains how to complete Deen with out books written (compiled) 150-300 years after Prophet.

 

[Aleph]

This post of yours has ZERO relevance to the discussion and "challenge" that you posed. The difference between Hadith and Sunnah is a separate matter. It has no relevance to a person such as yourself who claims that ALL ahadith are corrupted and questionable.

Now, if you can PLEASE stop beating about the bush and answer my SIMPLE question. Let's see how good you are with your own 'challenge'?

i. Sunnah and Hadith are Synonymous
The word Hadith is often understood to be a synonym for the word Sunnah. This is not correct. There is a great difference between the two not only regarding the extent of their authenticity, but also their content. A narrative of the words, deeds or tacit approvals of the Prophet (sws) is called Hadith. It does not add anything to the content of Islam stated in the Qur’an and Sunnah, the two original sources of Islam. Ahadith
(plural of Hadith) only explain and elucidate what is contained in these two sources and also describe the exemplary way in which the Prophet (sws) followed Islam. The scholars of Hadith say that a Hadith may be true or it may be false.**For this very reason, Ahadith are also called dhanni (presumptive or indefinite).

**. Mullah ‘Ali al-Qari, Sharhnukhbah al-fikr, vol. 1 (Beirut: Dar al-Arqam, n.d.), 155.
On the other hand, the word Sunnah literally means “busy path”, “trodden path”, “beaten path”. As a term, it refers to the practices of the Prophet Abraham (sws) to which the Prophet Muhammad (sws) gave religious
sanction among his followers after reviving and reforming them and after making certain additions to them.30 The Qur’an has directed the Prophet (sws) to obey these Abrahamic practices in the following words:

Then We revealed to you to follow the ways of Abraham, who was true in faith and was not among the polytheists. (16:123).

The following three aspects further bring out the difference between Hadith and Sunnah.

Firstly, while Ahadith can be inauthentic or spurious, the Sunnah cannot be so. The Sunnah is in fact as authentic as the Qur’an. This is because of the difference in the nature of transmission. Ahadith have been transmitted by a few individuals and therefore become dependent on their character, memory and intellect – all of which can falter even if the person in question is very pious. On the other hand, the Sunnah has been transmitted by whole generations to the next. Such is the vast number of people who have adhered to certain practices that there is no possibility of any error. The memory, intellect and character of a few persons can falter but when thousands of people deliver the same thing, any faulty transmission is ruled out. Furthermore, not only have a large number of people transmitted these practices, but also there is a consensus in the ummah regarding the authenticity of these practices. In other words, even people who do not adhere to these practices also vouch for their veracity.
Secondly, Sunnah is purely related to the practical aspects of Islam such as the prayer, hajj, nikah, wudu and tayammum. Issues that pertain to belief, history occasion of revelation and explanation of Qur’anic verses lie outside its domain. On the other hand, Ahadith are not confined to a certain sphere of Islam. Their content ranges from the practical issues of religion to intellectual ones and from historical episodes to explanation of the Qur’an and of the Sunnah itself.

Thirdly, the Sunnah is not based on Ahadith. For instance, we have not adopted the prayer, pilgrimage, etc in all their details because a few narrators explained them to us; on the contrary, we have adopted them because every person in our surroundings is either adhering to it or vouching for its veracity. In other words, Sunnah is an entirely independent source of Islam. However, some Ahadith may contain a record of the Sunnah just as they may contain the record and explanation of certain verses of the Qur’an. But just as having a record of the Qur’an does not make Ahadith the same as the Qur’an, having a record of the Sunnah does not make Ahadith equivalent to the Sunnah.
ii. The Qur’an should be interpreted through Hadith .
There is a group of scholars which believes that the Qur’an is depenedent on the Hadith for its interpretation and must at all cost be understood through it. However, the status occupied by the Qur’an as the mizan and the furqan entails that everything should be interpreted in light of the guidance it provides.

The Qur’an says about itself:

It is God who has revealed with truth the Book which is this scale/mizan [of justice]. (42:17)

The verse means that the Almighty has revealed the Qur’an which is a scale of justice meant to distinguish good from evil. It is the only scale that weighs everything else, and there is no scale in which it can be weighed:

Blessed be He who has revealed al-furqan to His servant that it may warn the whole world. (25:1)

iii. Ahadith are as Authentic as the Qur’an
There are scholars who believe that the Ahadith are as authentic as the Qur’an.36 This view is not correct. Whilst there is no need to investigate the authenticity of the Quran, both the text and chain of narration of a Hadith require investigation.

It is the chain of narration of a narrative which makes it a Hadith that can be attributed to the Prophet (sws). In addition to any hidden flaws in the chain of narration of a Hadith, the trustworthiness of the narrators,38 their memory and the contemporaneousness of the narrators are the three standards which should be kept in consideration in the light of the material which the scholars of Hadith have painstakingly made available. This is the standard which scholars of Hadith have put forth for the examination of the chain of narration of a Hadith, and is so sound that no addition can be made to it nor anything taken away from it.

Besides investigating the chain of narration of a H_adith, the second thing which requires investigation is the text of a Hadith. Although scholars of Hadith have left no stone unturned in investigating the characters and biographies of the narrators and have spent a greater part of their lives in this research, yet like every human endeavour, the natural flaws which still exist in the narration of a Hadith39 require that the following two things must always remain in consideration while investigating
the text of a Hadith:

1. Nothing in it should be against the Qur’an and Sunnah.
2. Nothing in it should be against established facts derived from knowledge and reason.

The Qur’an, it has been alluded to earlier, is the mizan (the scale of truth) and the furqan (the distinguisher between truth and falsehood). It is like a guardian of every religious concept and it has been revealed as a barometer to judge between what is right and what is wrong. Thus no further explanation is required of the fact that if anything is against the Qur’an, then it must stand rejected.

Just as the Qur’an is validated through the consensus of the ummah, the Sunnah is also determined from its consensus. Since this fact is an absolute reality about the Sunnah, thus if a Hadith is against the Sunnah and if there is no way out to resolve a conflict between the two, the Hadith in consideration must necessarily be rejected.

It needs to be appreciated that all the variant texts of a Hadith must be studied in order to form an opinion about it. While explaining this important aspect.

Many a time a person may form an opinion about a Hadith by not studying its variants; however, once he deliberates on all the variants his overall interpretation changes. One glaring example of this are the Ahadith which mention the prohibition of pictures and portraits. If only some of the narratives are studied, one can easily conclude that this prohibition is absolute and every picture and portrait is prohibited in Islam. However, if all the variants are collected and analyzed, it becomes evident that the prohibition is regarding only those pictures which have been made for worshipping. Many similar examples can be cited from the corpus of the H_adith literature. Thus it is essential that if one is not satisfied from the apparent
words of a H_adith, one must gather and collate all its variants to form an opinion.

 

[aazad.mubassir]

Who can authenticate now those Hadiths were written by actually themselves Sahaba RA! It does not matter to me and probably Allah SWT at the day of judgment that whether we started reading Quran from Surah Fatiha or Surah e Alaq. Only concern will be "Did we get the message of Quran and how much we followed it, so your question is irrelivent. Coming back to my question! if you can provide any verse/Hadith where it says Jesus was lifted ALIVE that is actually purley based on Christen belief because son of God (according to them) can never die and will return to earth to destroy armies of Antichrist.

Firstly, you DID NOT answer my very specific question in RED and then you went off tangentially with some presumptive hyperbole!

Secondly, just because YOU don't know that the ahadith were written in the times of the Prophet (SAW) doesn't mean it wasn't written. If you cared to check, the manuscripts of the Sahabah's OWN handwriting of the ahadith exist till THIS day. For example, one can find the manuscripts of Anas ibn Malik (RA), Abu Hurayrah (RA), Abdullah ibn Abbas (RA), Ayesha bint Abi Bakr (RA) and over 120 Sahabah in many books such as those of Ibn Abi Shaybah, Abdur Razzaq et al. You seem to be unaware that not just the Qur'an and Hadith, but even the letters and treaties of Rasulullah (SAW) in his own seal are STILL preserved till this date!

You are terribly confused and this is apparent from the fact that you are showing TERTIARY sources as "first compilations". All of the Sahih Sittah books are not PRIMARY collections, but TERTIARY collections. For example, Sahih Al-Bukhari's shortest chain of narrative (known as silsilah adh-dhahhab - or "the chain of gold") is 3 narrators between Bukhari and Rasulullah (SAW). The Sahih Sittah are ALL tertiary sources that derive their ahadith from primary sources as I have elucidated in my previous paragraph.

Your claim is as stupid as someone claiming that the mus-haf of the Qur'an found in Baghdad by Khalifah Harun Ar-Rashid is a corruption because Harun Ar-Rashid died in 183 AH which is 170+ years after the death of Rasulullah (SAW)! Clearly, the mus-haf of Harun Ar-Rashid was a TERTIARY source that was based on the PRIMARY source which is the mush-haf of Uthman (RA). By the way, the mus-haf of Uthman (RA) was compiled and disseminated at least 23 years after the death of Rasulullah (SAW).

Also, you seem to be unaware that NO sahabi/sahabiyyah had the FULL Qur'an in their presence. Hazrat Hafsah (RA) had the most complete one and even she didn't have some verses of Surah Baqarah as some of her manuscripts were either lost or damaged.

Like I said, Islam is not a kiddy matter. If you don't know the full details of the subject matter then you might as well SHUT your mouth. And please don't dodge my question; answer it. I asked you a simple question: Why is the first revealed verse of the Qur'an surah number 96 and Surah Fatiha number 1? Can you show us WHERE in the Qur'an it is said that this should be the case? Or are you going to concede that the compilation of the Qur'an was done by VERBAL instruction of the Prophet (SAW)?

Thanks.

 

[Mughal1]

http://archive.org/details/EnglishTranslationOfTheQuran


http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...HOLY-QURAN-Challenge-to-EHRAZ&highlight=ehraz

 

[Aleph]

You are being sublimely ridiculous now. The order of the Qur'an as it is present with us today is a CENTRAL PILLAR of our faith. It absolutely matters where Surah 'Alaq appears and where Fatiha appears. No one can change this order that was divinely appointed and was verbally communicated to the Sahabah who preserved it according to those instructions.

I gave you a simple example because your level of reading is clearly pathetic. Why don't you take a larger surah like Surah Nur? The verses that make the whole surah were ALL revealed in different times, different places and between them other verses of other surahs were revealed. Now are you going to tell us that reading Surah Nur in the order that it appears in the Qur'an today is "not important"? Can you not see the CLEAR folly in your arguments? It is quite clear that you DO NOT understand the methodology of compilation of Islamic text (Qur'an and Sunnah) and that is why you are terribly confused.

As for your other ridiculous point on who authenticates the handwriting of the Sahabah (RAA) then you are being even sillier! There are experts who excel in this particular field! One can simply turn around your nonsensical argument and pose the question: "Who will authenticate that the mus-haf Uthmani is indeed in Uthman (RA) or Zayd ibn Thabit (RA) handwriting?"

Please, man, don't reduce the legacy of this Divine religion to your petty and abhorrent idiosyncrasies. Not only do you make yourself sound like a fool in front of those who know these matters in detail, but it also directly affects your akhirah.

Lastly, if you are not going to accept the validity of ahadith then what is the point in meeting your foolish demand? I can easily show you 250 ahadith on this matter of Isa (AS). Imam Suyuti (rah) has written a whole book on this and the 'alamaat as-sa'ah (The Signs of the Last Hour) where he has reproduced all these ahadith in regards to Isa (AS). The question here is not whether Isa (AS) will come back or not; rather the precursor here is to first clear your own misconception about the textual sources of Islam.

This is why you CANNOT answer the question I posed. It is because you will have to SUBMIT that even the compilation of the Qur'an relies EXCLUSIVELY on Prophetic Traditions (ahadith) that you so merrily dismiss. And Guidance is only in the Hands of Allah (SWT).

Who can authenticate now those Hadiths were written by actually themselves Sahaba RA! It does not matter to me and probably Allah SWT at the day of judgment that whether we started reading Quran from Surah Fatiha or Surah e Alaq. Only concern will be "Did we get the message of Quran and how much we followed it, so your question is irrelivent. Coming back to my question! if you can provide any verse/Hadith where it says Jesus was lifted ALIVE that is actually purley based on Christen belief because son of God (according to them) can never die and will return to earth to destroy armies of Antichrist.