How i Discovered Islam.. Imran Khan(Worth Reading)

contra

Senator (1k+ posts)
biomat bhai,
biomat said:
Contra bhai, if modern science or physics have not proven existance of SOUL then it doesnot mean that it doesnot exists.

1. You are right. It would be wrong for me to say that "there is no possibility of its existence". :geek:
But, till the time it is not scientifically proven, i will not believe in it. :|

biomat said:
would people in past where modern science (ULTRASOUND, ECHO & COLOR DOPPLER) was not available, all the non muslims said the same that they dont agree as they have not seen it..
Wait for some more years or decades insha ALLAH u will get the truth..

2. To say that technology did not exist earlier would be wrong - :geek:

a) The Egyptians were able to "mummify" their kings and were able to preserve their bodies, 5000yrs.(?) ago.
[The arabs have an amazing pre-islamic history, which they are made to hate and disassosiate from]

b) Have you heard of the Ashok Pillar?
It is made of Iron, and has withstood corrosion for over 1600yrs.
http://home.iitk.ac.in/%7Ebala/journalp ... per_17.pdf
 

contra

Senator (1k+ posts)
taul bhai,
taul said:
Not to mention the ratio of others reverting to Islam is far more and greater than muslims converting to other faith :geek:

Muslims who convert to other religion do not disclose their change of faith in public out of fear of reprisals, therefore it will never be known whether islam is growing faster or some other religion... :geek: :!:
 

nabeel117

Councller (250+ posts)
In Holand normally parents leave the box in birth cirtificate of a child to be filled in latter by the child itself... and the box is for "Religion of child" but ..........and most of the parents make a note on the form that child can chose any religion except Islam,.....and you are still saying that they are afraid of disclosing thier conversion :shock: :?
 

nabeel117

Councller (250+ posts)
Contra bhai,
contra said:
1. You are right. It would be wrong for me to say that "there is no possibility of its existence". :geek:
But, till the time it is not scientifically proven, i will not believe in it. :|
Scientifically prove existence of your "Wisdom" ;)
 

nation1857

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
nabeel bhai
my daughter is born dutch and i can't find so call BOX in birth cirtificate where she has to fill her religion later
so please don't write any B s to prove u r point.
 

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
contra said:
Muslims who convert to other religion do not disclose their change of faith in public out of fear of reprisals, therefore it will never be known whether islam is growing faster or some other religion... :geek: :!:


--As i stated earlier,these statistics exist and they're thankfully done by Westerners and Americans :P ,,if you again would want to assume your own theory,you will, no matter what, just as your theory of evolution :shock:..

--Reality is, It's hard to leave the Truth and Much more easy to abandon False :) ,,Precise Reason for Stats being true and your Assumption being wrong :P
 

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
contra said:
a) The Egyptians were able to "mummify" their kings and were able to preserve their bodies, 5000yrs.(?) ago.
[The arabs have an amazing pre-islamic history, which they are made to hate and disassosiate from]

b) Have you heard of the Ashok Pillar?
It is made of Iron, and has withstood corrosion for over 1600yrs.
http://home.iitk.ac.in/%7Ebala/journalp ... per_17.pdf



--It's not about Preservation :) but rather much more than that,Ultrasound and Latest Scientific techniques are able to identify the gender of a baby,birth defects as well other Health issues not existent before :geek: ,,but your argument is based on "seen" and "Unseen",,,

--In that sense, have you ever seen "Air" that you breathe :geek: No,But you firmly believe in it's presence and Existence..Do not come up with lame logics as wind moves objects and destroys things when in full power :) according to your logic "Seeing is Believing" :shock:
 

nabeel117

Councller (250+ posts)
nation1857 said:
nabeel bhai
my daughter is born dutch and i can't find so call BOX in birth cirtificate where she has to fill her religion later
so please don't write any B s to prove u r point.
nation bhai,
you are right, but I was talking about late 60's and early 70's............. for reference you can confirm with authorities and also can refer "Shahab nama" by Qudratullah Shahab. He has also mentioned this Dutch psycology in his book, regarding his visit to Holand. :geek:
 

biomat

Minister (2k+ posts)
Assalam-o-alaikum.
If SEEING IS BELEIVING, then, Have any one in this forum seen CONTRA's BRAIN WITH HIS/HER OWN NAKED EYES... If yes then contra has a brain. If not then he hasnot :-) ..
Same applies to the group of people who say that we will believe when we see it.. Islam means that bowing to ALLAH & accepting what HE said whether we like it or not, whether we see or not. As Man have limited knowledge & vision, he cant see where ALLAH has the knowledge.. If we agree to this SEEING IS BELIEVING argument, then even we cannot practive our own religions like HINDUISM, CHRISTIANS & ISLAM etc... No one has seen GOD/ALLAH/BHAGWAN so they dont exist?? NO; ALLAH exists , as science is growing in its research many non muslims are converting to islam, as modern science calls creation of ALLAH as NATURE...
Contra bhai, dont get confused with the numbers of Muslims increasing or decreasing, it doesnot matter. If we Pakistani or Afghanistani or Saudi etc dont follow ALLAH commandments, ALLAH dont need people like us. HE will raise another nation which will be far better than us on practicing ISLAM.. So it is lesson for us also that We as muslims have to transform ourselves in accordance with ISLAM. If we follow ISLAM in our daily lives, non muslims will convert to islam themselves...
Contra bhai i again tell u that keep your mind open ( i know for sure that u have a nice brain, without seeing it, i believe that u have one ;) ) , not for just argument for the cause of argument, insha ALLAH u will see the truth...
Thanks for keeping us awake, by asking such questions :-)
Thanks Taul bhai for your participation. Jaza-k-ALLAH
 

contra

Senator (1k+ posts)
taul bhai,
taul said:
but your argument is based on "seen" and "Unseen",,,

1. How did you reach this conclusion? :shock: :?:
No, my argument is not based on "seen" and "unseen". :|
I am saying that anything should be believed only once it is proven by following ---
"Scientific Methodology". :geek:
Not on "FAITH"...

2. And by the way, the existence of air has been proven scientifically, however, the existence of a "soul" has not been proven scientifically. 8-)

And neither has the existence of god been proven scientifically... :!:
 

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
contra said:
..

2. And by the way, the existence of air has been proven scientifically, however, the existence of a "soul" has not been proven scientifically. 8-)

And neither has the existence of god been proven scientifically... :!:



---You need science to prove God :?: :shock: ,,I'm Appalled :o :o .. :roll: ..So your Beliefs are more concentrated on Science :idea: than Seen and Unseen :| .You should be wise enough to atleast figure out the basic thing as "Nothing works on it's own" just as you need man power to run computers,one thing works because of another force :geek: This whole Universe can't be running on it's own,there must be a Higher Power and Authority than what human mind can Comprehend that is in control of the whole universe :) as well as all, that is unknown to humans including your beloved "Scientists" :D ...Everyday you see "Sun" emerging and rising from East and Setting in the West..Moon always there in the evening to provide us with Ultimate source of light :) and yet you fail to acknowledge Power of God and Presence of God :shock: :o :oops: ...this list goes on and on :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :ugeek:


--So indirectly Scientists put their belief in an Unseen things as air :!: ,,,Elaborate further what tests were performed to prove "air" does exist :roll: ,,and is not visible at the same time..

--Would you mind explaining "Scientifically" how does a baby gets to breathe inside mother's womb floating in an Amniotic cavity which is all "fluid and Liquid" :ugeek: and breathing at the same time 8-) whereas normally you'd drown in any liquid material and wouldn't be able to breathe 8-) :ugeek:...hmmm that defies the logic :geek: :ugeek:
 

nabeel117

Councller (250+ posts)
contra said:
I am saying that anything should be believed only once it is proven by following ---
"Scientific Methodology". :geek:
Not on "FAITH"...
2. And by the way, the existence of air has been proven scientifically, however, the existence of a "soul" has not been proven scientifically. 8-)
And neither has the existence of god been proven scientifically... :!:
I am sharing an email I recieved recently.......
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An atheist professor of philosophy :geek: speaks to his class on
the problem science has with God, The Almighty.

He asks one of his new students to stand and begins.....

Prof:So you believe in God?

Student: Absolutely, sir.

Prof: Is God good?

Student: Sure.

Prof: Is God all-powerful?

Student: Yes.

Prof:My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him......Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?

(Student is silent.)

Prof:You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?

Student:Yes.

Prof:Is Satan good?

Student: No.

Prof:Where does Satan come from?

Student:From...God..

Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student:Yes.

Prof:Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?

Student: Yes.

Prof:So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)

Prof:Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?

Student:Yes, sir.

Prof:So, who created them?

(Student has no answer.)

Prof:Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?

Student:No, sir.

Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student:No, sir.

Prof:Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

Student:No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student:Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student:Nothing. I only have my faith.

Prof:Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.


Student:Professor, is there such a thing as heat?


Prof:Yes.

Student:And is there such a thing as cold?

Prof:Yes.

Student:No sir. There isn't. (The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student:Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that.

There is no such thing as cold . Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat .. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy . Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it . (There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?

Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.


Prof:Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student:Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, somethig we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a subsantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it.

Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? :lol:

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. :lol:

Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)

Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class is in uproar.)

Student:Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? (The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student:Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent.. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable. )

Prof:I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son. :o :shock:

Student: That is it sir... The link between man & God is FAITH . That is all that keeps things moving & alive.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NB: I believe you have enjoyed the conversation. .....
 

contra

Senator (1k+ posts)
nabeel bhai,
nabeel117 said:
Student:Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?
:shock: :shock: :shock:

MRI - Magnetic Resonance Imaging.
There are many other methods as well.
 

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
contra said:
\

MRI - Magnetic Resonance Imaging.
There are many other methods as well.



-- :oops: :oops: :oops: Don't make further mockery of yourself 8-) :D ,,You can't touch or feel brain with MRI Or CAT Scan :geek: ,Unless you've some body operate on you and cut open your skull to feel,touch and see it for real :lol: :lol: :ugeek:....Would you be willing to go under the knife to be sure if you have one :roll: :lol: :lol: .Loosing your ground on scientific bases :o :shock: 8-) 8-) ..

--i see no answer to my query :ugeek: 8-)
 

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