FBR facing record shortfall of Rs485 bn

[fbrinsider]

The reasons for this shortfall is given in the same article. It is a well written article which has covered why this shortfall has occurred due to some Court decisions and tax relief by the government in various sectors.

See my reply above.

 

[insouciant]

I have studied ADVANCED economics. So sorry, either you can't impress me with your C-grade understanding of the topic or somewhat fancy but TOTALLY IRRELEVANT example! ?‍?‍

Why the FUCK will you even bring the expenditure method of calculating GDP in the discussion as a measure of growth and quote that totally wrong too!! Man!! If you were my student I would have failed you! or If you are really working at FBR an idiot like you should be FIRED for not even knowing basics!! This is right ---->>>>> Y = C+ I + G +NX

Go and READ mission statement of FBR again. FBR's sole job is TAX calculation!!!. His job is not fucking tax policy formation! And I think you won't even know that there was never a tax policy in Pakistan which is actually going to kick in from this year!

FBR| Federal Board of Revenue - Government of Pakistan

FBR -Federal Board of Revenue is the Revenue Division of Government of Pakistan tasked with collecting taxes & duties and administrating relevant legislation.

www.fbr.gov.pk

What is the direct tax collection this year vs. last year? If it has fallen i'll blame FBR for it! If not, then FBR is doing a GREAT job!

After your totally stupid explanation, I think the problem is you don't understand your economic theory and FBR operations, and as a result, somebody who does understand like Jahanzeb Khan is out of your comprehension! ?‍?‍

If you had studied even basic economics, you would know that economic growth is a function of C+I+G (total spending on private consumption, investment and government spending). So if people get relief in one sector (like cheaper petrol, or no tax on mobile phones, or lower tax on salaries), they either spend that amount on other goods and services or save it. For example, if someone saves, say Rs1000 a month on filling his car with petrol, he either uses that amount to buy something else, or keeps it in his bank account (from where it is lent out). Similarly, if a business gets cheaper raw material, it either reduces its price (due to competition) or increases the profits paid to its owners or shareholders.

In short, the money keeps circulating. So why were the alternate uses not taxed? There was absolutely no reason for the revenue to fall for the reasons given, except that FBR failed to come up with a strategy to properly collect tax from the alternate uses of the money.

The reason I disparage Jahanzeb Khan is that all these factors were very clear since last year. But he failed to develop a strategy to address them. He kept aloof, failed to develop a team, and remained more interested in developing his plan to get a $400 million loan from the World Bank, rather than making administrative improvements. He put incompetent people in key positions and is now coming up with lame excuses for his dismal performance. No leadership skills, no vision, just greed after projects.

?‍

 

[fbrinsider]

I have studied ADVANCED economics. So sorry, either you can't impress me with your C-grade understanding of the topic or somewhat fancy but TOTALLY IRRELEVANT example! ?‍?‍

Why the FUCK will you even bring the expenditure method of calculating GDP in the discussion as a measure of growth and quote that totally wrong too!! Man!! If you were my student I would have failed you! or If you are really working at FBR an idiot like you should be FIRED for not even knowing basics!! This is right ---->>>>> Y = C+ I + G +NX

Go and READ mission statement of FBR again. FBR's sole job is TAX calculation!!!. His job is not fucking tax policy formation! And I think you won't even know that there was never a tax policy in Pakistan which is actually going to kick in from this year!

FBR| Federal Board of Revenue - Government of Pakistan

FBR -Federal Board of Revenue is the Revenue Division of Government of Pakistan tasked with collecting taxes & duties and administrating relevant legislation.

www.fbr.gov.pk

What is the direct tax collection this year vs. last year? If it has fallen i'll blame FBR for it! If not, then FBR is doing a GREAT job!

After your totally stupid explanation, I think the problem is you don't understand your economic theory and FBR operations, and as a result, somebody who does understand like Jahanzeb Khan is out of your comprehension! ?‍?‍?‍

If you really had studies "Advanced Economics", we wouldn't be having this discussion. If you are teaching Economics anywhere, you should be fired for ignorance.
I had simplified the formula, and given simple examples to make it understandable.
If you don't even know what the direct tax collection is, compared to last year, you have no right to comment.
If you just read the mission statement and drawn conclusions from it, without realising that it is FBR which is making tax policy since it has been established, you have your head stuck up somewhere dark.
Now shut up and go lick Jahanzeb Khan's shoes so someone throws you a few bucks.

 

[insouciant]

Good! That's more like it! And Stick to what you only know to do! i.e. Abuse!! And refrain from technical details that you have zero understanding of! You have ZERO credibility at least on this forum now!

If you really had studies "Advanced Economics", we wouldn't be having this discussion. If you are teaching Economics anywhere, you should be fired for ignorance.
I had simplified the formula, and given simple examples to make it understandable.
If you don't even know what the direct tax collection is, compared to last year, you have no right to comment.
If you just read the mission statement and drawn conclusions from it, without realising that it is FBR which is making tax policy since it has been established, you have your head stuck up somewhere dark.
Now shut up and go lick Jahanzeb Khan's shoes so someone throws you a few bucks.

 

[fbrinsider]

Good! That's more like it! And Stick to what you only know to do! i.e. Abuse!! And refrain from technical details that you have zero understanding of! You have ZERO credibility at least on this forum now!

The abuse was started by you.
Answer me this:
Is it not correct that FBR's revenue growth this year is the LOWEST in 25 years?
Is it not correct that Jahanzeb Khan blamed the shortfall on FBR's team, got six senior officers transferred out, then appointed people of his own choice - yet failed to deliver?
Is it not correct that instead of presenting any solution, he is coming up with excuses?
Is it not correct that Jahanzeb Khan was the right hand man of Shahbaz Shareef?
Is it not correct that he was the mastermind behind the major scams of SS' government, like the 56 private companies, 'saaf paani' scheme, laptop scam, Sahiwal coal, and so on?
Is it not correct that he is named in a NAB inquiry and is attending hearings?
Is it not correct that he hired a person for Rs. 600,000 (government money) just for preparing a fancy presentation for Imran Khan?
Is it not correct that the the so-called World Bank Group consultants were LUMS graduates paid $5000 per month each for preparing a half-baked scheme for "FBR reform"?
Is it not correct that Jahanzeb Khan is now feverishly lobbying for this "FBR reform" which will cost the poor nation $ 400 million?
Is it not correct that the previous "FBR reform" costing $150 million, similarly pushed through by another adventurer (Abdullah Yousuf) failed to make any improvement in FBR, but enriched Abdullah Yousuf?

Rest assured, all the information is being collected and provided to NAB, FIA and other agencies, and soon Jahanzeb Khan and his paid stooges will all be behind bars.

 

[insouciant]

Let me educate you. Because it seems you not only have wrong concepts but also have a donkey's view of the affairs!

Answer me this:
Is it not correct that FBR's revenue growth this year is the LOWEST in 25 years?
We have talked about this in detail. You need to split the drop between in-control/out-of-control parameters. Don't put reforms/policy related drop on him. I would see what is the growth in Filers this year to gauge his success. And apparently, it has increased by 34%!! Also, this year after a long long time, they are clearing long long due refunds! The "apparent" growth shown by previous governments by usurping filers money in the name of tax has forced our industrialists to move their factories abroad and this needs to be fixed!

https://www.fbr.gov.pk/Press-Release

Is it not correct that Jahanzeb Khan blamed the shortfall on FBR's team, got six senior officers transferred out, then appointed people of his own choice - yet failed to deliver?
Is it not correct that instead of presenting any solution, he is coming up with excuses?
NO. It is not correct. I see him laying out the things as they are. And solely working on things to fix tax collection/reimbursement methods like digitization of processes etc.

I'm a filer, since forever. For the first time in the last 6 months, my company's accounts haven't been frozen. Otherwise, for the last 2 yrs, every 3 months somebody from FBR would freeze them citing lame excuses and then FBR would ask me for RISHWAT to release them. So much so that, I had to move 75% of my cash savings out of the bank into my lockers! I know many friends who are law-abiding taxpayers and have experienced such harassment in the previous two regimes. And ultimately decided to move their business out of Pakistan!

Increasing revenues by milking and harassing a sharif filer may give you a slight temporary bump in your revenue but you would lose him forever in the long run!

Is it not correct that Jahanzeb Khan was the right hand man of Shahbaz Shareef?
Is it not correct that he was the mastermind behind the major scams of SS' government, like the 56 private companies, 'saaf paani' scheme, laptop scam, Sahiwal coal, and so on?
Is it not correct that he is named in a NAB inquiry and is attending hearings?
If he was involved in any corruption then let him face the music like Fawad Hassan Fawad. If he got things done for Shahbaz Sharif on his directives and those things were wrong, then I'd blame Shahbaz Sharif for them instead of him, because he was just doing his job! But if, like Fawad Hassan Fawad, he was actively doing corruption then yes!! DEFINITELY, HE NEEDS TO BE IN PRISON!

Is it not correct that he hired a person for Rs. 600,000 (government money) just for preparing a fancy presentation for Imran Khan?
Is it not correct that the the so-called World Bank Group consultants were LUMS graduates paid $5000 per month each for preparing a half-baked scheme for "FBR reform"?
It's his prerogative to hire the best talent to get his job done at the price determined by the market. If somebody is costing $5,000/month then he must be worth it because the market is paying him for it! I've come across a few LUMS/IBA graduates and they are pretty good! If the market rate for a world bank consultant is $5,000/- then they should be paid the same!

When I graduated from Harvard a few decades back, I was employed fresh by my employer for a project for the Canadian government at USD 15,000/month. And this was the range my peer group holding similar jobs was hired in as well..!!

Is it not correct that Jahanzeb Khan is now feverishly lobbying for this "FBR reform" which will cost the poor nation $ 400 million?
Is it not correct that the previous "FBR reform" costing $150 million, similarly pushed through by another adventurer (Abdullah Yousuf) failed to make any improvement in FBR, but enriched Abdullah Yousuf?
I don't know the details about this, so sorry I can't comment!

Rest assured, all the information is being collected and provided to NAB, FIA and other agencies, and soon Jahanzeb Khan and his paid stooges will all be behind bars.
As I said earlier, if he has done anything wrong in the past then he should be hanged for it and I hope the LAW will take its course.

He is neither my dad nor do I intend to make him my father-in-law. My whole argument is around the flawed REASONING you've been using for FBR's revenue shortfall and misassigning liabilities!

The abuse was started by you.
Answer me this:
Is it not correct that FBR's revenue growth this year is the LOWEST in 25 years?
Is it not correct that Jahanzeb Khan blamed the shortfall on FBR's team, got six senior officers transferred out, then appointed people of his own choice - yet failed to deliver?
Is it not correct that instead of presenting any solution, he is coming up with excuses?
Is it not correct that Jahanzeb Khan was the right hand man of Shahbaz Shareef?
Is it not correct that he was the mastermind behind the major scams of SS' government, like the 56 private companies, 'saaf paani' scheme, laptop scam, Sahiwal coal, and so on?
Is it not correct that he is named in a NAB inquiry and is attending hearings?
Is it not correct that he hired a person for Rs. 600,000 (government money) just for preparing a fancy presentation for Imran Khan?
Is it not correct that the the so-called World Bank Group consultants were LUMS graduates paid $5000 per month each for preparing a half-baked scheme for "FBR reform"?
Is it not correct that Jahanzeb Khan is now feverishly lobbying for this "FBR reform" which will cost the poor nation $ 400 million?
Is it not correct that the previous "FBR reform" costing $150 million, similarly pushed through by another adventurer (Abdullah Yousuf) failed to make any improvement in FBR, but enriched Abdullah Yousuf?

Rest assured, all the information is being collected and provided to NAB, FIA and other agencies, and soon Jahanzeb Khan and his paid stooges will all be behind bars.

 

[fbrinsider]

Get over it, man! Apparently you have too much time on your hands. I have other things to do, so this is my last response on the topic.

If you really were a Harvard graduate, you would have responded reasonably, not like:
"Let me educate you. Because it seems you not only have wrong concepts but also have a donkey's view of the affairs!"
I think you should ask Harvard for a refund, as they have not been able to educate you in the art of rational discussion.

"We have talked about this in detail. You need to split the drop between in-control/out-of-control parameters. Don't put reforms/policy related drop on him. I would see what is the growth in Filers this year to gauge his success. And apparently, it has increased by 34%!! Also, this year after a long long time, they are clearing long long due refunds! The "apparent" growth shown by previous governments by usurping filers money in the name of tax has forced our industrialists to move their factories abroad and this needs to be fixed!"

1. Of course there were some events which affected the revenue. There always are, every year. But a good leader finds ways to overcome the issues. Unfortunately Jahanzeb Khan ("JK") remained passive, and just used them as an excuse for his dismal performance.
2. If you think JK had anything to do with the growth in the number of filers, you are sadly mistaken. The man has never lifted a finger for this purpose. The increase in the number of filers is simply on account of the policy of higher withholding tax rates for non-filers in place for the last several years, boosted by the ban on non-filers buying/selling real estate and cars placed by the outgoing government. (However, I personally disagree with such a ban).
3. And if you are gauging success by the number of returns filed, it seems that you are unaware that the vast majority of returns were filed without any tax payment ('BTL' returns).
4. He hasn't released any refunds yet. And the plan for issuing bonds or promissory notes in place of refunds was actually developed by Mr. Tariq Bajwa back in 2014. The then government kept thinking over and delaying it. Now it has been materialized by Mr. Razzaq Dawood, the Commerce Minister, to help the exporters. Not JK. He won't be able to tell you how the scheme works, even if his life depended on it.

NO. It is not correct. I see him laying out the things as they are. And solely working on things to fix tax collection/reimbursement methods like digitization of processes etc.
Again, sorry to shatter your illusion. The man has done nothing of the sort. He is not doing his job, and just making excuses for his failure. He is solely focused on getting the $400 million from World Bank, which will mostly be squandered. Unfortunately, this loan will also have to be returned by the taxpayers, like many other similar failed projects dreamt up by such "wizards" in the past.

I'm a filer, since forever. For the first time in the last 6 months, my company's accounts haven't been frozen. Otherwise, for the last 2 yrs, every 3 months somebody from FBR would freeze them citing lame excuses and then FBR would ask me for RISHWAT to release them. So much so that, I had to move 75% of my cash savings out of the bank into my lockers! I know many friends who are law-abiding taxpayers and have experienced such harassment in the previous two regimes. And ultimately decided to move their business out of Pakistan!
Again, JK has nothing to do with your relief. I don't know your specific situation, but I can tell you that his instructions were actually to raid, arrest and seize accounts. Did you not note the numerous raids on businesses, departmental stores, and even hospitals in the last few months? It was only a few days ago that he was asked to stop by Mr Asad Umar, because the whole exercise was causing fear among investors.

Increasing revenues by milking and harassing a sharif filer may give you a slight temporary bump in your revenue but you would lose him forever in the long run!
Agreed.

If he was involved in any corruption then let him face the music like Fawad Hassan Fawad. If he got things done for Shahbaz Sharif on his directives and those things were wrong, then I'd blame Shahbaz Sharif for them instead of him, because he was just doing his job! But if, like Fawad Hassan Fawad, he was actively doing corruption then yes!! DEFINITELY, HE NEEDS TO BE IN PRISON!
Good thing that you agree.

It's his prerogative to hire the best talent to get his job done at the price determined by the market. If somebody is costing $5,000/month then he must be worth it because the market is paying him for it! I've come across a few LUMS/IBA graduates and they are pretty good! If the market rate for a world bank consultant is $5,000/- then they should be paid the same!
Its not his prerogative to squander public money on his near and dear ones. After seeing their work, I can assure you that those hired were NOT the best and brightest. They were hired for other reasons.

When I graduated from Harvard a few decades back, I was employed fresh by my employer for a project for the Canadian government at USD 15,000/month. And this was the range my peer group holding similar jobs was hired in as well..!!
Good for you.

As I said earlier, if he has done anything wrong in the past then he should be hanged for it and I hope the LAW will take its course.
Again, its good you agree.

He is neither my dad nor do I intend to make him my father-in-law. My whole argument is around the flawed REASONING you've been using for FBR's revenue shortfall and misassigning liabilities!
You can disagree with my reasoning, but instead of rational discussion, you started the abusive comments. I still hold my views, like many others in FBR, that the major cause of this year's shortfall is the incompetence and lack of leadership skills of JK. His very appointment is against Imran Khan's promise of meritocracy. As it is, he was posted and is being protected by Azam Khan and Arbab Shahzad because of their friendship/relationship. This is cronyism at its worse, because it is playing with the nation's future. We are all just asking Imran Khan to put in a competent person and you will see the difference.