Dhiraj Kumar
Banned
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Faith, Reason and Inner Engineering: Jaggi Vasudev, Javed Akhtar
- Thread starter Dhiraj Kumar
- Start date
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Dhiraj Kumar
Banned
@Gobi Da Phul
Pehle to poora video to dekh lo gobi ke pakode :) Tera naam sun ka, Manchurian yaad aa gaya!!
Pehle to poora video to dekh lo gobi ke pakode :) Tera naam sun ka, Manchurian yaad aa gaya!!
Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
Does free will exist?????
Muhammad Mujtaba
Banned
very nice post. One has to understand the difference between belief n faith. there is a very thin line between them and you can cross it over very conveniently. I agree with mr. javed argument that we should be men of reason instead of men of faith directly as it happens most of the times. If your belief is reasonable enough then and only then one should make it as a faith if not then one should leave that belief. It's your mind which controls everything and one should only look at any belief through his mind not by the influence of others.
Dhiraj Kumar
Banned
Scripture is not an empirical evidence. Its superstition, manipulation, a tool used by some to rule others. The scripture were always created with desired interest.
What we see the resultant abrahim religions are bad apples. All tools and propaganda to wage war, create hegemony and make banana rules hindering people from choosing their free will.
God must be laughing at our fake religions :)
Imranpak
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
What is evidence to me may not be to you! That's why I am saying that it's up to each person to decide if or not they consider that "holy book" to be authentic or not. Believers of every religion have made war in some form or another then justified it as good overcoming evil.
The Ibrahamic trilogy is responsible for war as well yet has also contributed the most to humanity. Even without religion people will still be fighting over land and resources, there is no doubt about that in my mind .
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Dhiraj Kumar
Banned
The objective knowledge: Reality is same for everyone. I agree that Religious feelings are made up from personal subjective understanding.
Evidence should be conclusive, experimentally verified and every person should be able to take out similar inferences from it.
The religion has no evidences ;)
But the scriptures are neither rationality, not experiments. They even lack a fixed methodology. As both the speakers discuss about shortcoming of religious scriptures.
The earth is flat was the notion preached by all Ibrahimic faiths. After 500 years, all these faiths cite the same verses to prove that earth is round.
Religion is merely a faith and a faith is never same as fact, true/objective belief!!
Imranpak
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Reality is not the same for everyone for example the climate or even food that may be hot or cold for you may not be that for me!! One person may call a glass half full where as the other half empty. As in court cases it's about proving the evidence that the prosecution will build it's case on disputed by the defence, it's for the judge to decide who in my case is Allah!! I can not show you Allah as he is far beyond human comprehension but his acts like the recent hurricane Phailine is for the whole world to see. There is a force behind it!
Similarly emotions like hate, love and anger can not be seen but are fact. To you reality is humanism, again not every person possesses for whatever you regard that quality that to be. Hitler claimed to be a humanist as well!!!
Islam or the Qur'an have never claimed for the earth to be flat so I don't know where you got that from or what you have been reading:lol::lol: The Qur'an is scientifically verified by many critics, I have no problem with that as nothing should ever be followed blindly.
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Jawed Akhtar sahib talked in a very convincing manner when it comes to reasoning, thinking and mind. But I guess apart from religion and communism, capitalism hasn't been able to keep it's hands clean either, the same capitalism which engulfed nations like India, Pakistan, UAE, USA and Canada. What do you say about child labour and war for Oil and how USA is controlling natural resources of other nations such as Iraqi Oil and exploitation in Latin America? They don't claim that any deity asked them to do so.
Plus Jawed sahab also said that people like Sathguru and other clerics, in short religious people and preachers eradicate the difference between humans and animals via making your mind and thinking capabilities inactive. Well, since you talk about human beings and mind then can you please explain that WHY just human beings evolved in terms of their social setup. Why other creatures such as Chimpanzees, Zebras, Goats, Donkeys and Whales have not been able to come up with different lifestyles and scientific knowledge for all these centuries? One can argue about the credibility of Charles Darwin and Theory of Evolution and say that look we found these skeletons via excavations, but still the fact remains human societies have evolved in terms of society and civilization no matter if they were formed via evolution or some Adam and Eve. However, such a development has not been noticed amongst gorillas, baboons and monkeys. And now the same human being Nauzubillah denies the existence of God.
Plus the Sathguru also stressed upon the variety of wishes we possess in different stages of life, and pointed towards the hollowness which science couldn’t fill easily. The question about human character, and questions about his origins i.e. where did we come from and what happens to us after we die; there has been no discovery or scientific explanation about it. I am not against Science, in fact fully support more and more support to scientific discoveries and archaeological studies; BUT have science been able to rectify the diversity of human characters and differences among humans living in the society? Why humans are so unique in terms of their personalities and no such thing has been noticed amongst other creatures. Is it merely a coincidence.
Plus Jawed sahab also said that people like Sathguru and other clerics, in short religious people and preachers eradicate the difference between humans and animals via making your mind and thinking capabilities inactive. Well, since you talk about human beings and mind then can you please explain that WHY just human beings evolved in terms of their social setup. Why other creatures such as Chimpanzees, Zebras, Goats, Donkeys and Whales have not been able to come up with different lifestyles and scientific knowledge for all these centuries? One can argue about the credibility of Charles Darwin and Theory of Evolution and say that look we found these skeletons via excavations, but still the fact remains human societies have evolved in terms of society and civilization no matter if they were formed via evolution or some Adam and Eve. However, such a development has not been noticed amongst gorillas, baboons and monkeys. And now the same human being Nauzubillah denies the existence of God.
Plus the Sathguru also stressed upon the variety of wishes we possess in different stages of life, and pointed towards the hollowness which science couldn’t fill easily. The question about human character, and questions about his origins i.e. where did we come from and what happens to us after we die; there has been no discovery or scientific explanation about it. I am not against Science, in fact fully support more and more support to scientific discoveries and archaeological studies; BUT have science been able to rectify the diversity of human characters and differences among humans living in the society? Why humans are so unique in terms of their personalities and no such thing has been noticed amongst other creatures. Is it merely a coincidence.
Bret Hawk
Senator (1k+ posts)
I simply enjoyed the way Jaggi Vasudedev presented his thoughts in a persuasive and eloquent manner by keeping his cool and groove on his subject matter. My only issue with the mystic is his inability to appreciate the place of rationality in discovering the multiple layers of reality by repeatidly avoiding the word of Philosophy at the behest of the moderator. Intriguingly the moderator didn’t enquire about the possible role of faith on spirituality which could have been interesting to hear from the mystic.
Javaid “The Arrogant & Idiot” Akhtar the less is said the better for this pile of rubbish with no substance, no core argument to support his jibber jabber and simply playing with meaningless words to confuse and exasperate his opponents.
Faith has the enormous power to transform the lives of its believers and do not contradict with the universal principles. The fact of the matter is that both reasoning and spiritual enlightenment are the perfect tools to support and corroborate the core articles and dogmas of faiths provided the whims and desires of its (Faith) clerics and interpreters do not play a decisive role to change the primordial forms of its fundamental beliefs.
Javaid “The Arrogant & Idiot” Akhtar the less is said the better for this pile of rubbish with no substance, no core argument to support his jibber jabber and simply playing with meaningless words to confuse and exasperate his opponents.
Faith has the enormous power to transform the lives of its believers and do not contradict with the universal principles. The fact of the matter is that both reasoning and spiritual enlightenment are the perfect tools to support and corroborate the core articles and dogmas of faiths provided the whims and desires of its (Faith) clerics and interpreters do not play a decisive role to change the primordial forms of its fundamental beliefs.
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Jawed Akhtar was simply relying on his fans and/or cheerleaders present in the audience. And one can see his behaviour and attitude as compared to Sadhguru. Due to all this, even number of educated, secular and mature Indians have developed a strong dislike towards him after this show. Kindly see comments against Akhtar on different Indian websites and blogs too. http://blog.ishafoundation.org/insi...thing-beyond-the-mind-sadhguru-at-think-2012/ ,
Shanmugam Piramanayagam
New Member
[FONT="]It was very sad to see many comments attacking Javed Akhtar in that Youtube video. I can understand that he is not open to spirituality but attacking someone just because he was not open is totally anti-spiritual. So, I wrote a review of the entire debate here: you can read a detailed review about this debate here: [/FONT]https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.c...ed-akhtar-faith-reason-and-inner-engineering/[FONT="] .. Readers may be interested to read it.[/FONT]
