contra: Marriage Law in Pakistan

[babadeena]

@Rahat

it is a book from Allah and only the MUTTAQEEN who believes on Un-seen can get benefit from it.

Who are "Muttaqeen" from whole of Quran:
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/l00022/mutqinwho/p.html
Things related to Muttaqeen.
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/l00022/mutqinmisc/p1.html
Hope it will help for better understanding?

==================
Quran= Salvation in the World and the Hereafter.

 

[Live4Pakistan]

@BABADEENA

let someone with Quranic Knowledge may come forward so that discussion may be constructive and fruitful.

I support your view point.....But I will suggest we should leave that issue and should consult ISLAMIC SCHOLAR to clear our confusion...

 

[Bret Hawk]

Br Baba Deena and Other Pervaizi Followers:

Despite of the fact that I admire your knowledge related to the Holy Quran and some fields of sociology compounded by the critical reasoning which you possess I do strongly differ on you with this matter once again on the subject of the allowance of marriages for Muslim Men according to the Shariah Law of Islam.

Ibn Abbas, Ikrimah, Qatadah, Said Bin Jubair, Ibn Kathir, Qurtubi, Allama Tabatabai, Maulana Maududi and vast majority of the Muslim exegetes, commentators and jurists are of the opinion that the said 3rd Ayaa of Sura Nisa indeed allows the Muslim men to marry up to four times and that is not related to the orphan girls / ladies alone.

I know based on my past experience you would retort that Im not concerned with X Y Z as for me (You) what Qurans text says explicitly, matters the most. First of all dear Baba G such Muslim scholars have devoted thousands of years of their (Combined) life to the study and understanding of Holy Quran whereas people like me and you hardly spend few hours of their succinct life to study the holy scripture of Islam so maybe for you the opinions of such scholars dont matter the most not. But for me (And millions alike) they do hold credible and important to me until and unless we devote the large chunk of our life span on Quranic and (its related) legal studies.

Based on your assertion of that Ayaa (Nisa: 3) that it stipulates for the marriage of Muslim men with only orphan females then my question would be to you here is this; If it is established through the historiography of early Islamic personalities and epoch then it would become evident to us that during the reign of Jahiliya (Ignorance) Arabs used to exploit the properties and wealth of orphans and based on your logic here if that word Fa Ankiho is related to the orphans then how would that be possible for Allah SWT to order such corrupt minded people to marry more orphans so that the figure can reach to four?

And to clear this point further in your mind I have to quote a tract from Maududis Tafheem Ul Quran on this matter;

Sa'id b. Jubayr, Qatadah and some other commentators say that while the Arabs of the Jahiliyah period did not approve of subjecting orphans to wrong, they had no concept of justice and equity with regard to women. They married as many women as they wanted and then subjected them to injustice and oppression. It is in this context that people are told that if they fear perpetrating wrongs on orphans they ought to be equally worried about perpetrating them on women. In the first place they should never marry more than four, and of those four, they should marry only as many as they can treat fairly".

As I mentioned this with some details in my earlier posts the problem with you (Baba Deena br) and the likes of you is that they just strictly follow the wordings of Holy Quran without referring to the Sunnah (Authenticated method of Prophet of Islam Salal Lahu Alihi Wasalam) and hence you become detracted from the main themes of that holy scripture and unfortunately tries to confuse other simple members of this forum as well. When you go through the Fiqh-E-Islami course of any university, madrassa and maktab of any sect (And school of thoughts) of Islam then it would become clear to you ostensibly that without following the authentic Hadith corpus of Prophet SAW you cant reach to any conclusive and doubt free point on any issue which are expressed in The Holy Quran.

Last but nevertheless not least if we refer to the Sunnah and Hadiths of Prophet SAW we also view this matter become more elucidated when Prophet SAW explicitly ordered his companions to restrict the possession of their wives to four as it is authentically quoted and reported with the companions of Ghaylan and Nawfal Bin Muawiyaa. I hope that friends like you should focus there attention a bit more on the Hadith literature apart from the critical evaluation of the text of Holy Quran if you want to get the reality of such matters to appear more crystal clear instead of misconception and confusion.

 

[babadeena]

Based on your assertion of that Ayaa (Nisa: 3) that it stipulates for the marriage of Muslim men with only orphan females then my question would be to you here is this

First of all, you please show me "mine assertion" and "with only orphan females". the whole thread is there? Then I will take your "told-by-others-and-accepted-by-you- assertion".
The pity is that You are also starting your assertion from a pre-determined and pre-formed position which is dependent totally what x, y, z, have written instead of basing it first of all purely on Quran. Anhow no problem, we can discuss as you wish, but first please prove what my assertion had been all along?

 

[Bret Hawk]

Why the word "with" has been used for an arabic word "Fee".




Some Very important points about this verse:

---- Some people like it or not, they may mention it or hide it, but FACT IS, that "element of Orphans" is the first conditional clause in the verse.

--- The Arabic words "FA (Then)" have been used in two places in the verse. Any person of any language knows it very well, that "this word (Then)" when used in a sentence restricts the sequence with preceding and succeeding text.

--- The verse starts with the Arabic word "waoo(And)", it implies that the subject matter is connected with the previous text.---- Specially attention to the beginning "wa in khiftum ???? ???????? " and in the middle
?????? ???????? "fa in khiftum". The first one fear is "If you fear", the second one is "Then if You fear". Inshalla, I can go further to elaborate on more words in the verse, but let someone with Quranic Knowledge may come forward so that discussion may be constructive and fruitful.
Quran is very easy to learn, what it requires is "intention, persistence, and hard work", unfortunately when it comes to Quran we do not bother, but when it is any other book how much difficult it may be, but our career depends on it, we parrot it in best way and wishes to get A plus.[/quote]




In above underlined phrases what actually you're trying to point here? Can you further elaborate your enlightened views here? Aren't you implicitly trying to assert this point that this Ayaa is allowing Men to marry only Orphan women?

 

[babadeena]

In above underlined phrases what actually you're trying to point here? Can you further elaborate your enlightened views here? Aren't you implicitly trying to assert this point that this Ayaa is allowing Men to marry only Orphan women?

@Bret Hawk,

This is really chilling. First you jumped to your "conclusion" that I said so. Now you wish to get further elaboration from me. My question still to you is, how you came to that conclusion!!!
I standby firmly what you have pasted from my posts, but please do prove that it is proving what you have said. Now if you wish to concentrate on mine said and your pasted quotation, take the thing wherein you are differing.?

P.S. please also say something of bracketing me with "Pervaizis". If I had been, I had moral courage to accept that, but how you have put me in that bracket. Brother, anyone who quotes Quran is pervaizi for you?

 

[Bret Hawk]

First of all, you please show me "mine assertion" and "with only orphan females". the whole thread is there? Then I will take your "told-by-others-and-accepted-by-you- assertion". How much arrogance do you hold in your mind is evident from this line of yours. So the gigantic scholars and exegets of Islam are just an ordinary bunch of toms dicks and harries for you, the opinion of which holds no more value for you but rather you value your own beliefs and critique who hardly seems to possess any minute qualification on this subject. Just by learning your self with some of the semantics and syntax of Arabic you think you can challenge the view points of great Imams of Islam?

The pity is that You are also starting your assertion from a pre-determined and pre-formed position which is dependent totally what x, y, z, have written instead of basing it first of all purely on Quran. Anhow no problem, we can discuss as you wish, but first please prove what my assertion had been all along?[/quote]


Its better for you to take this sort of pity on your self by comparing your views with the giants of Islam and seems to have no value for the opinions which are based on thorough knowledge and resound reasoning.

 

[babadeena]

First of all, you please show me "mine assertion" and "with only orphan females". the whole thread is there? Then I will take your "told-by-others-and-accepted-by-you- assertion". How much arrogance do you hold in your mind is evident from this line of yours. So the gigantic scholars and exegets of Islam are just an ordinary bunch of toms dicks and harries for you, the opinion of which holds no more value for you but rather you value your own beliefs and critique who hardly seems to possess any minute qualification on this subject. Just by learning your self with some of the semantics and syntax of Arabic you think you can challenge the view points of great Imams of Islam?

The pity is that You are also starting your assertion from a pre-determined and pre-formed position which is dependent totally what x, y, z, have written instead of basing it first of all purely on Quran. Anhow no problem, we can discuss as you wish, but first please prove what my assertion had been all along?

Its better for you to take this sort of pity on your self by comparing your views with the giants of Islam and seems to have no value for the opinions which are based on thorough knowledge and resound reasoning.[/quote]

@BretHawk,

Prove me what I have written is not from Quran, what you have got is what other people have written. Whatever and whosoever, has written, QURAN superiority is must and absolute. Do you accept that whatever they have written (which under no way I am ignoring or underestimating) is superior to Quran. You take my quote and prove it that this is mine own words. It is not question of arrogance it is question of authenticity.

 

[babadeena]

When you go through the Fiqh-E-Islami course of any university, madrassa and maktab of any sect (And school of thoughts) of Islam then it would become clear to you ostensibly that without following the authentic Hadith corpus of Prophet SAW you cant reach to any conclusive and doubt free point on any issue which are expressed in The Holy Quran.

Check my post's quotes:

About ZH, I am not aware, what his ideas are. Rest I agree to you post. We should and must stick to Quran, Get all kind of guidance from it and also from those practices/hadiths/Sunnah which have been given these names, but are not against Quran. Like there is no problem at all accepting what this Reader has posted:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19139
All hadiths quoted are in line with Quranic teachings.

Perhaps it will clear something in your view what you have about me on Hadiths.

 

[atensari]

http://www.tanzeemarchive.org/jaraid 2010/nida/ndk-2010-03-23.pdf

 

[babadeena]

http://www.tanzeemarchive.org/jaraid 2010/nida/ndk-2010-03-23.pdf

@Atensari,
It would have been much better if english translation given with the excerpt you pasted. Anyhow, the discussion is not at all about the "comparison what is being done in the West and what the Muslims have been allowed." Forcefully dragging The West or its cultural values into discussion proves nothing. Lets be honest, in the West the atmosphere is very liberal, the elements of "desire, opportunity and willingness" are exploited. The same elements are in every place but somewhere they are materialized in "hypocrtical and hidden" way. Every man is hunter, one who does not because he cannot. There is no exception of locality or society. Only other "conditions" may vary.
What the irony is that "Muslims", from whole of Quran, only get or discuss or concentrate on three specific things in their life:
a) Men are incharge of Women;
b) Men are allowed to beat their wives;
c) Man is allowed to have more than one wife;
One who does not even have two cents in pocket to get a coke, dreams or weaves the thinking of the privileges of above three things.

 

[collage_jeanz]

The most scientific reason you can give for polygamy or multi-marriage,

watch this clip
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjYn-HwDQns[/video]