Challenge offer by Allah to the non muslims!

[foqia khan]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3ZS4jb4K4M[/video]

 

[adonis_look]

I hope moderators have enough gumtion and wisdon to post this one.

Quran claims all is impartial mercial yada yada ..

Now tell me if Allah is impartial then why a perosn is born diseased while other is healthy.. One is bonr pauper while another born rich..

What the diseased one are being punsihed for what the healthy ones are being awared for..

If this isimpartiality and merci of God then I am happy without mercy..



I have many more questions but am afraid you people won;t be handle the truth and either those messages will be delted or I will be banned..


If you have so much faith free islamic states from shackle of ban of preaching of other religions.. Only insure ones about their faith keep puting ban on preaching of others and yet keep strutting around with the claims of infallibility..

Drop the apostacy is murser law and see how this whole citadel falls like pack of cards.. till you do that all this is a mere facade and nonsense..

 

[Red_Indian]

Foqui

I have never believed or said that Quran is a forgery and I am not going to look for inconsistencies in it.Surly, You must admit there are inconsistencies among those who follow Islam. There are those Muslims (Taliban), who have set of values that are very different than of who oppose them.I personally know a few Muslim who do excellent service to all humanity (including non Muslims) and these are the people who attract me.

 

[abbasiali]

I hope moderators have enough gumtion and wisdon to post this one.

Quran claims all is impartial mercial yada yada ..

Now tell me if Allah is impartial then why a perosn is born diseased while other is healthy.. One is bonr pauper while another born rich..

What the diseased one are being punsihed for what the healthy ones are being awared for..

If this isimpartiality and merci of God then I am happy without mercy..



I have many more questions but am afraid you people won;t be handle the truth and either those messages will be delted or I will be banned..


If you have so much faith free islamic states from shackle of ban of preaching of other religions.. Only insure ones about their faith keep puting ban on preaching of others and yet keep strutting around with the claims of infallibility..

Drop the apostacy is murser law and see how this whole citadel falls like pack of cards.. till you do that all this is a mere facade and nonsense..

I am looking from my fellows how they will respond you, and sure you will get lots of polite and real explanatory answers against your questions, will follow this thread for you. Hope you will learn a lot from this forum.

 

[taul]

Quran claims all is impartial mercial yada yada

--First and foremost The Holy Quran "The true unaltered word of God" is the guidance for all the humanity,for those who seek guidance and seek the mercy of Allah (SWT) and need to be addressed with great respect and reverence.

Now tell me if Allah is impartial then why a perosn is born diseased while other is healthy.. One is bonr pauper while another born rich..

--The question first is "do you even believe in God"??

If you have so much faith free islamic states from shackle of ban of preaching of other religions.. Only insure ones about their faith keep puting ban on preaching of others and yet keep strutting around with the claims of infallibility..

--True word needs to be upheld in an Islamic society and in an Islamic country they're just doing that :ugeek: All the bad things are curbed in any society and country and NOT promoted as they lead to immorality in such a society,as for your closed and rather narrow minded approach to this is a quite obvious thing that muslims are in huge numbers in Non-Islamic states and countries they still tend to adhere to their true faith and do NOT get to change it,those who would want as per your claims could've done that as soon as they landed there,instead people from the western world have started to embrace Islam even after all the deliberately concocted misconceptions and false notions to this beautiful religion.

Drop the apostacy is murser law and see how this whole citadel falls like pack of cards.. till you do that all this is a mere facade and nonsense

--Every law is most just in Islam :ugeek: Such a law of your concern is NOT just in Islam but practiced in Christianity as well though you do NOT get to hear about it since most of christian states do NOT simply apply and practice it :ugeek: for an amateurs who beat the drums of it would never ever dare to stand up against the "Death Penalty" handed over to anyone charged for "Treason" :ugeek:

 

[Red_Indian]

I hope moderators have enough gumtion and wisdon to post this one.

Quran claims all is impartial mercial yada yada ..

Now tell me if Allah is impartial then why a perosn is born diseased while other is healthy.. One is bonr pauper while another born rich..

What the diseased one are being punsihed for what the healthy ones are being awared for..

If this isimpartiality and merci of God then I am happy without mercy..



I have many more questions but am afraid you people won;t be handle the truth and either those messages will be delted or I will be banned..


If you have so much faith free islamic states from shackle of ban of preaching of other religions.. Only insure ones about their faith keep puting ban on preaching of others and yet keep strutting around with the claims of infallibility..

Drop the apostacy is murser law and see how this whole citadel falls like pack of cards.. till you do that all this is a mere facade and nonsense..

Adonis_Look All I can say that I agree with you completely. At this forum we are a disadvantage we cannot refute claims, or put the religion under examination made by them yet other religions are constantly chastised.

 

[Red_Indian]

Quran claims all is impartial mercial yada yada

[quote:egq1u5j7]--True word needs to be upheld in an Islamic society and in an Islamic country they're just doing that :ugeek: All the bad things are curbed in any society and country and NOT promoted as they lead to immorality in such a society,as for your closed and rather narrow minded approach to this is a quite obvious thing that muslims are in huge numbers in Non-Islamic states and countries they still tend to adhere to their true faith and do NOT get to change it,those who would want as per your claims could've done that as soon as they landed there,instead people from the western world has started to embrace Islam knowing all the misconceptions being related to this beautiful religion.

[quote:egq1u5j7]Drop the apostacy is murser law and see how this whole citadel falls like pack of cards.. till you do that all this is a mere facade and nonsense

--Every law is most just in Islam :ugeek: Such a law of your concern is NOT just in Islam but practiced in Christianity as well though you do NOT get to hear about it since most of christian states do NOT simply apply and practice it :ugeek: for an amateurs who beat the drums of it would never ever dare to stand up against the "Death Penalty" handed over to anyone charged for "Treason" :ugeek:

[/quote:egq1u5j7][/quote:egq1u5j7]

"Treason is a word used in military terms when a soldier provides information, or Joins the opposing army putting the citizens of his own country at risk. When a person converts to another religion who does he put on risk?. Look in the mirror and you will find a geek.

 

[adonis_look]

Seriously if this is the level of debate where people assume the infalibility of Quran and consider everything wrong.. Then there is no point debating.. If you want serious debate then come down from that self-erected pedestal ..

I mean what kind of nonsense logic argues that since quran is rela truth and everything else is false hence islamic countries are justifiied in banning preaching of other religions..

This kind of assertion in a debate where one is trying to figure out the real truth kills the debate at very first stage..

If you assume you are the best and refuse to corrborate the claim then what's the challenge that you are throwing..

For me my religion is the ultimate truth so shoudl i go around banning preaching of islam.. I hope you people see the level of nonsense that you spew in name of debate..

 

[taul]

Adonis_Look All I can say that I agree with you completely. At this forum we are a disadvantage we cannot refute claims,yet other religions are constantly chastised.

--An educational debate is encouraged at all levels provided the etiquette be observed and respected just as in any educational but those who look upon preset prejudices ending up in diatribes are even bound to be sidelined by any insightful mind :ugeek:

religion under examination made by them

--The most desperated,irrational and suffocated attempt to console one's own mind,sigh!!! :ugeek:

"Treason is a word used in military terms when a soldier provides information, or Joins the opposing army putting the citizens of his own country at risk. When a person converts to another religion who does he put on risk?. Look in the mirror and you will find a geek.

--The similitude of "death penalty" offered to any person in act of treason ( betraying one's own land) which seems to be applauded and goes unquestioned by the most caring of mind and souls, is with the "death penalty" offered for betraying one's own religion ( which unduly gets the spotlight ). the rationale behind is he puts his own life at risk ( for being severely punished after death) for disbanding the true religion and all initial efforts are done to get that person back on track ( the choice which is NOT even offered to the traitor ) after all the efforts exhausted the stern action is carried out,but for all of this to be absorbed one's mind need to be truly expanded to unfold and grasp the intricacies involved :ugeek:

 

[gazoomartian]

I hope moderators have enough gumtion and wisdon to post this one.

Quran claims all is impartial mercial yada yada ..

Now tell me if Allah is impartial then why a perosn is born diseased while other is healthy.. One is bonr pauper while another born rich..

Allah makes poor and rich to maintain the balance in soceity: Aur hum ney ghurbat aur imarat banai hai dunia ka nizam qaem rakhne key lyeye.

imagine for a moment, if every body had $10million tonight, can you even think of the consequences? The world would be back to poor again. You will run around with $100, 000 in your hand but youwill not find a plumber, just for example, to fix your bathroom problems. Or the dairy farmer will not milk cows any more cus he has $10million, he doesnt want to work. The world will not survive even for an hour if there were no poors. Poors are the ones who run the country, but unfortunately rich ones take unfair advantage of it. This is a good time for Zakat to come in my mind.

What the diseased one are being punsihed for what the healthy ones are being awared for..

This is His hikmat. Here again, if every body is healthy for ever, no body will be studying medicine, no drug store, no hakim ibne-sina, no nurses, nothing to thank Allah for since we would not even kno what being unhealthy means. Good can be appreciated only if bad exists.

If this isimpartiality and merci of God then I am happy without mercy..

First, this is NOT an impartiality or partiality, its just His hikmat. Allah is total partial towards Muslim in the life here after (Raheem) but totally impartial in this world (Rehman) for he provides sustenance to EVERY BODY, Muslims, Christains, Jews, Hindus etc. You strive, you get.

Second: dont worry, there is not going to be any mercy for non-muslims, absolutely no reduction of azab. So no need to worry



I have many more questions but am afraid you people won;t be handle the truth and either those messages will be delted or I will be banned..

If you fear that, you can email me at siasat address, but I would prefer that you write here so a person better than me can help you.


If you have so much faith free islamic states from shackle of ban of preaching of other religions.. Only insure ones about their faith keep puting ban on preaching of others and yet keep strutting around with the claims of infallibility..

because Allah has allowed Satan until the day of Qyamah to be free, Satan uses every opportunity to make people commit sins. If there is one thing that we keep dear is our faith for we know that Islam is true and the only religion human needs. (Aur hum ney Islam ko tumharey lyeye deen chuna hai). you are totally incorrect, we do allow others to preach, how do you think there are so many Christain preeching outfit in Pak, lots of Hindus and mandirs.

Drop the apostacy is murser law and see how this whole citadel falls like pack of cards.. till you do that all this is a mere facade and nonsense..

this is neither a facade nor any nonsense. Its perfect and it has to be perfect as it is prescribed by Allah, the supreme owner of the universe. Alah says:

Inna fi khalqissamawati wl ardhi wakhtilafillaili wannahari la ayatilli ulil-albab
(undoubtedly, there are signs of his wisdom in the galaxy and upon earth for those who have (or want to see it His way) the wisdom (or desire) (to feel, find, see it)

ulil-albab = people with wisdom. But unfortunately and of course no insult meant to you or any Indian memmber, you just have not been given the wisdom by Allah to see His Glory.

I strongly recommend you read the link below but please keep your mind open and free of bias against islam or muslims. You dont have to convert but it might give you some idea of what Islam is. Millions have read it and lots have converted, there has gotta be somethingin there. Click on surah.chapter on th etop left corner of the main window to scroll to next chapter etc.

http://quranexplorer.com/Quran/Default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope youtake me up on it unless you just want to argue for the sake of argument

 

[gazoomartian]

[quote="taul
--An educational debate is encouraged at all levels provided the etiquette be observed and respected just as in any educational but those who look upon preset prejudices ending up in diatribes are even bound to be sidelined by any insightful mind :ugeek:
[/quote]

taul bhai

?????? ??????? ?????? ??????????? ???????? ???????????? ????????? ?????????????? ????????????? ???????? ??????? ????????

Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom

???? ?? ?? ?? ???? ???????? ????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ? ??

 

[gazoomartian]

Foqui

I have never believed or said that Quran is a forgery and I am not going to look for inconsistencies in it.Surly, You must admit there are inconsistencies among those who follow Islam. There are those Muslims (Taliban), who have set of values that are very different than of who oppose them.I personally know a few Muslim who do excellent service to all humanity (including non Muslims) and these are the people who attract me.

i dont know of any Muslim claiming to be perfect, for such claim by a Muslim is called ghroor, notallowed in Islam

I or any other Muslim only claim that Islam is perfect with no holes in it. Look at bible. the current evrsions were written by human about 400 years ago. Any written by human can be and has been altered based on need of the prevailing soceity. For example, Catholics now allow gays to be ordained. Christain bibles was written by human, whereas Qur'an has been revealed which is part of lauh-um-mahfooz in Junnah.


there are good and bad in every religion and also situations drive people to that condition. Look at your Hindu religion, shev sena, and whole bunch of terrorist organisations. Are ALL Hindus like that? NOT

 

[Red_Indian]

Foqui

I have never believed or said that Quran is a forgery and I am not going to look for inconsistencies in it.Surly, You must admit there are inconsistencies among those who follow Islam. There are those Muslims (Taliban), who have set of values that are very different than of who oppose them.I personally know a few Muslim who do excellent service to all humanity (including non Muslims) and these are the people who attract me.

i dont know of any Muslim claiming to be perfect, for such claim by a Muslim is called ghroor, notallowed in Islam

I or any other Muslim only claim that Islam is perfect with no holes in it. Look at bible. the current evrsions were written by human about 400 years ago. Any written by human can be and has been altered based on need of the prevailing soceity. For example, Catholics now allow gays to be ordained. Christain bibles was written by human, whereas Qur'an has been revealed which is part of lauh-um-mahfooz in Junnah.


there are good and bad in every religion and also situations drive people to that condition. Look at your Hindu religion, shev sena, and whole bunch of terrorist organisations. Are ALL Hindus like that? NOT

Gaz let me put it in a different way If one thousand individuals trying to be or making a sincere effort to be like one individual than the inconsistency among would be minor not as vast as my example

 

[foqia khan]

@adonis_look

Allah Almighty says in the Holy Quran:

'Be sure We shall test you with something of fear and hunger some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil) but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere.
Who say when afflicted with calamity: To Allah we belong and to Him is our return.
They are those on whom (descend) blessings from Allah and Mercy and they are the ones that receive guidance.' (2:155-157)


This world is a place of test for the hereafter .everyone has different pattren of test,some r being tested in poverty while the other r with wealth, some r being tested with health while the others r with sickness ,n everyone will be rewarded on the base of the intentions that he/she makes for his/her actions.
The people whom we consider r in good status in this world with wealth ,health etc ,it is more hard for them to get a better place in the hereafter as compare to the poor n sick people.
coz Allah has fixed the livelihood of the poor as a test in the wealth of the rich person in the form of "Zakat". now if the rich person denies the poor person's share, he will not only be answerable for his own action but also for the sufferings of the poor person.while poor person will only be answerable for his own actions.n no doubt Allah is very merciful.
Similarily those who are blessed with health,knowledge etc will face hard trial than those who r not blessed with these things.

Apart from the apostacy law ,the conversion rate towards Islam ,itself is a loud n clear answer that " Islam is the only truth", that will spread.

 

[adonis_look]

Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom

this part is laughable at many level..

Think about it all powerful God has sealed the hearing and hearts and eyes because of this seal non-muslim can't see the socalled wisdom of god's words.

Then God will go ahead and punish those non-muslims for not seeing his wisdom.

Any sane person can see who is the culprit in this matter ..

Take an example. Let us say i have a servant and I blindfold him then i expect him to do all my errands Obviously he will bump into objests falls oof and would not be able to do things. Then i punish him because he didn;t do his work properly. Tell me who should be held guilty my servant or I for that fiasco...




Somoen else answered that since allah wants people to see his greatness so he sends some diseased person to suffer so that people pray to him.. to me it looks like everything else is secondary I mean socalled merciflu God is fine with giving people worst disease as long as it serves the purpose of his worship.. sounds too megalamanic entity to me certainly not merciful.. A merciful person will not act in such a coceited matter just for the sake of few praise and laurels..

th

 

[adonis_look]

@adonis_look

Allah Almighty says in the Holy Quran:

'Be sure We shall test you with something of fear and hunger some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil) but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere.
Who say when afflicted with calamity: To Allah we belong and to Him is our return.
They are those on whom (descend) blessings from Allah and Mercy and they are the ones that receive guidance.' (2:155-157)


This world is a place of test for the hereafter .everyone has different pattren of test,some r being tested in poverty while the other r with wealth, some r being tested with health while the others r with sickness ,n everyone will be rewarded on the base of the intentions that he/she makes for his/her actions.
The people whom we consider r in good status in this world with wealth ,health etc ,it is more hard for them to get a better place in the hereafter as compare to the poor n sick people.
coz Allah has fixed the livelihood of the poor as a test in the wealth of the rich person in the form of "Zakat". now if the rich person denies the poor person's share, he will not only be answerable for his own action but also for the sufferings of the poor person.while poor person will only be answerable for his own actions.n no doubt Allah is very merciful.
Similarily those who are blessed with health,knowledge etc will face hard trial than those who r not blessed with these things.

Apart from the apostacy law ,the conversion rate towards Islam ,itself is a loud n clear answer that " Islam is the only truth", that will spread.

I disagree.. No allah ro god who likes to be called mericful can kill so many people though needless disaese in name of test.. to me ti sounds li this entuity is very megalomanaic whoever he is if at all he is an enitity and he ahas no scruples in wreaking havoc like earthquake and wat not .. and we are supposed to worship him because he could do worse....

NO matter how many times you people shout the very fact that islam needs crutch of apostacy law to keep its flock together telles me there is not much faith in the words of quran even amongst muslim society.. had there been then they woudl nto have feared alternative preachign of other religion.. if you are so sure quran is the real truth then what are you afraid of let us open the gate of preachign for everyone and then decide based on who gets how many conveerts.. right now it's unfair game.. it's like Pakistan getting to play with tampered ball while opposition had to use untampered ball..

 

[foqia khan]

Foqui

I have never believed or said that Quran is a forgery and I am not going to look for inconsistencies in it.Surly, You must admit there are inconsistencies among those who follow Islam. There are those Muslims (Taliban), who have set of values that are very different than of who oppose them.I personally know a few Muslim who do excellent service to all humanity (including non Muslims) and these are the people who attract me.

Surely the challenge of Allah in Quran is there from 1400 yrs n nobody has found any inconsistency in it n who ever dare they end up on accepting the truth of Islam. Now u should also admit that all humans r full of mistakes ,so in their actions u definitely can find inconsistencies but instead of getting confused in the actions of taliban n other muslims,it is wise to see what the real lessons of Islam r.

 

[adonis_look]

[quote="Red_Indian":349aga83]Foqui

I have never believed or said that Quran is a forgery and I am not going to look for inconsistencies in it.Surly, You must admit there are inconsistencies among those who follow Islam. There are those Muslims (Taliban), who have set of values that are very different than of who oppose them.I personally know a few Muslim who do excellent service to all humanity (including non Muslims) and these are the people who attract me.

Surely the challenge of Allah in Quran is there from 1400 yrs n nobody has found any inconsistency in it n who ever dare they end up on accepting the truth of Islam. Now u should also admit that all humans r full of mistakes ,so in their actions u definitely can find inconsistencies but instead of getting confused in the actions of taliban n other muslims,it is wise to see what the real lessons of Islam r.[/quote:349aga83]
Again i disagree I can recount million inconsistency in any holy book let aone Quran.. it;s another matter people do not accep it or ban you or issue fatwa on your head hence people rather keep quiet than risk being killed..

 

[taul]

this part is laughable at many level..

Think about it all powerful God has sealed the hearing and hearts and eyes because of this seal non-muslim can't see the socalled wisdom of god's words.

Then God will go ahead and punish those non-muslims for not seeing his wisdom

--Certainly all those who have NOT enough capability to even comprehend their own existence and dependence would always fall short of coping up with such a trivial matter,Allah ( SWT) with the sole attribute of All Knowing knows all those persons who would obey and follow HIS commands and all those who would always be disobedient,arrogant and in a state of disarray and disbelief,Allah (SWT) being the Sole Creator of everyone knows everyone's intentions,thoughts and all the actions they are to carry and embark on in their day to day lives right from the day they were born till the day they'd breathe their last,Allah (SWT) has given ample opportunity for each of HIS creation to ponder over the things HE has created and laid out the instructions as to how one should live his/her life in The Holy Quran and in this particular verse informing us of all those disbelievers who would remain on the wrong path and would NOT return to HIM,everyone will be judged on the day of Judgment according to the knowledge he/she possessed or had access to,for instance you can NOT compare yourself with those persons living in amazon,since you have access to information and knowledge of it and then on top of that you have an option to either accept and obey or remain in denial and be disobedient,no one is forcing you to do so but just as any mother knows the nature of her kids,Our Creator who has created us from a drop of liquid knows our each and every instincts and clarifies of all those disobedient.

Take an example. Let us say i have a servant and I blindfold him then i expect him to do all my errands Obviously he will bump into objests falls oof and would not be able to do things. Then i punish him because he didn;t do his work properly. Tell me who should be held guilty my servant or I for that fiasco...

--Such a scenario does NOT seem to apply in your case at all :) Allah ( SWT) has given you the ability to think,perceive and then act on an information,but you can deliberately choose to be like such a person who seem to shrug off almost any logical thing only hurting his own self by being in denial.If a theory is presented and a student isn't getting it,does NOT mean the material being taught is wrong but means either student's mind is too limited or defected ( certainly not your case) or he deliberately wants NOT to understand basics of such a thing and act naive :)

Somoen else answered that since allah wants people to see his greatness so he sends some diseased person to suffer so that people pray to him.. to me it looks like everything else is secondary I mean socalled merciflu God is fine with giving people worst disease as long as it serves the purpose of his worship.. sounds too megalamanic entity to me certainly not merciful.. A merciful person will not act in such a coceited matter just for the sake of few praise and laurels..

---Health and sickness,wealth and poverty is all Provided by Allah (SWT) and the Provider knows best as to what amount and how much should be given to anyone.Just as it was NOT our choice to be born into this world and neither any of us or for that matter our parents had this ability or power to even have a say whether they wanted us to be a boy or a girl, it was all predestined as to who should be given what form and shape similarly Allah (SWT) knows how to maintain balance in this world that goes beyond our very limited comprehension to balance out birth rate with morbidity rate as well as the excuses and preconditions that lead to one's health deteriorate and sink into a lifeless cadaver.To us our parents are the one's whom we love the most and vice versa but when kids get time outs by their parents for being naughty or when parents stop them from certain actions or things which they see unfit and harmful to their kids,does that mean the parents are being cruel or heartless or wanna prove to their kids to acknowledge their power?Absolutely NOT they wish the best for their kids and adopt the ways that are better for their kids.

Again i disagree I can recount million inconsistency in any holy book let aone Quran..

-- :) That is the challenge of NOT muslims but the Only One Creator "Allah (SWT)" Himself and no living being on this planet had ever been successful in the past and neither will ever be in the future till the day of Judgment :)

NO matter how many times you people shout the very fact that islam needs crutch of apostacy law to keep its flock together telles me there is not much faith in the words of quran even amongst muslim society..

--India is supposed to be a so called secular state and there are roughly 20 crore mulims in india,now since it's NOT even an Islamic country and such a law does NOT even apply there by the state why would you NOT see people reverting to other religions (i'm sure there must be some but ofcourse the number will always remain much smaller )??It's for this simple fact that they adhere to the truth and when they go abroad as in the case of a huge number of muslim population where they're at liberty to do whatever they wish but rather always choose to stay put to their true faith and religion :)

 

[JIJA_JI]

you guys are debating about a rope believing it for snake. debating whether its a cobra or a rattlesnake. Nobody knows the truth nor have the guts or desire to inquire whether its even snake at all or just a rope. All these years everyone of you is just looking for means to reinforce your believes. If everybody would have been like that humanity still would have been living in the African Jungles.

Let me just try to simplify it, in hope that it might sake you up a little.

Broadly speaking there are three kind of beings in this world.

1. Believers: Beings who believe in what others have told them or by reading books or by following others are believers. some beings believe that certain thing is and some believe that certain thing is not. Or that that's the right way or that's not the right way. followers of many religions and Atheists (Kafeers) are in this category. Niether of them know but they both believe in opposite concepts. These are all either weak minded, fearful people with very limited mental capabilities or rebellion kind of people but they both are mere believers. they represent darkness, hopelessness, fear, violence, stress and suicide.

2. Seekers: Beings who don't believe but seek and those who wants to go in depth to know it all, falls in this category. These guys are the real back bone of life, hope for better tomorrow. they see things differently. they refuse to believe but seek to know. because of these guys I am able to write these words to you from a brightly lighted warm room although the temperature outside is way below zero. if these guy would have also been believer, I would have been covering myself in animal skin or leaves in a cave somewhere in African jungles. all the scientists research scholars and all the spiritual seekers fall in this category.

That's what the Buddha, Krishna, Mahavira, Christ, Osho, Fareed, Rumi, Ramana and Mooji teaches and thats what the Sanatana Dharma teaches. Be a seeker and nothing but a seeker. Why to search for mysteries and charisma's any where else, you yourself is the mother of all mysteries and charisma's. Search for the mystery seeker, search for the one who is searching charisma's in books. Search for your self, seek your self and nothing else.

3. Knowers: The knowers are the beings who did seek and found the truth, now what they found can only be experienced and can not be explained as long as spirituality is concerned. material seeking can be well explained and is well documented and needs no further proof. So if you want to know the truth look for it and don't just try to reinforce your believes. Does not matter how much you debate about food, taste and appetite it all will be meaningless unless you get up go to kitchen and cook something so you can really satisfy your appetite and taste your meal as I have to do now.


Kabir:

Jin dunda tin paiya gahare pani paith ,
Main bori duban dari rahi kinare baith.