Bhutto and Imran Khan

Arslan

Moderator
8-31-2012_129255_l_akb.jpg


In cyberspace and sections of the press and political commentators keep referring to Imran Khans populism. Here, one even finds comparisons between him and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.

The great man is a beginner, says Thomas Carlyle. In the words of Russian theoretician Georgy Plekhanov (1856-1918), This is a very apt description. A great man is precisely a beginner because he sees farther than others and desires things more strongly than others. This explains the enormous significance in history attributed to great leaders. But Plekhanov insists, and rightly, that the leader is merely an agent of a historic necessity. That necessity gives birth to its agents when the need arises.

Therefore, one must be comparing the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) and the Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaaf, instead of Bhutto and Imran Khan. However, both Bhutto and Imran appear larger than their respective parties, especially in the latter case, and therefore political narratives remain mired in comparisons between individuals. Ironically, in describing populism one has to assign an important role to the individual. It is because in the case of populism, the caudillo, the popular leadership plays an essential role in the formation and staying power of the movement, says Michael Lowy, a French scholar.

This brief article will draw heavily from Lowy. Besides the caudillo in the driving seat, populism has the ability to mobilise masses. It is, perhaps, in view of these two attributes that certain analysts have superficially drawn comparisons between Bhutto and Imran Khan. Superficially, because characterising the PTI as populist is highly flawed as comparing Bhutto with Imran Khan is.

Populism is not merely about a political project spearheaded by a caudillo, it is also about redistribution of wealth, at least in its Latin American version where it emerged most strongly 1944-1964 (Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala, Gen Juan Dongo Peron in Argentina, Joao Goulart in Brazil, Rojas Pinilla in Colambia).

Interestingly, some of the Latin American scholars of the dependentist school have explained populism as an accumulation strategy of the local elite through redistribution of wealth. While this economistic approach is useful in understanding the class character of populist movements, populism is too complex to be reduced to either economistic interpretation or a precise definition.

The concept of populism sprang in Czarist Russia and the US South Midwest in the late 19th century. Ever since then, a host of phenomena have attracted the tag of populism. From socialist and fascist populisms, scholars have pointed out urban and agrarian and Western and native populisms. However, all such analyses whereby Hitler, Mao and Peron appear as variants of the same phenomenon ignore the specificities of each phenomenon tagged to populism. Even if populism is a vague term, it carries certain specific features.

Besides the caudillo at the spearhead, the class character of the leadership is elitist or petty bourgeois. The leadership does not emerge from the working classes. Its social base is predominantly urban, but in certain Latin American cases (Mexico and Bolivia), it also included broad peasant layers. Populism may take an organised form (Peronism, for instance) but in general its influence remain electoral. The caudillo provides unity but organisational structure remains top-down authoritarian.

Ideologically, it is a mishmash of middle-class nationalism and anti-imperialism, but definitively anti-communist. Populist ideology addresses the people as a whole or the nation as a whole, and workers are manipulated in various ways. However, homogenising role of the caudillo does not exclude the ideological heterogeneity. From crypto-fascists (right-wing nationalists, staunchly anti-communist) and centrists (reformists) to crypto-socialists influenced by Marxism, one may find various tendencies in a populist movement. This ideological diversity sometimes provokes splits, according to Michael Lowy, particularly through the departure of the left.

Though some of these aspects are common between Bhuttos PPP and Imran Khans PTI for instance, both spearheaded by caudillos providing organisational unity, employing anti-imperialist rhetoric (reduced to anti-Americanism), staunchly anti-communists, etc. yet judging Imran Khan as being populist, one may argue, will be premature.

It is because the true character of populism is exposed once it assumes power. Populist regimes are Bonapartist by nature. By Bonapartist regime one implies a regime that poses as arbiter above the classes, relying sometimes on employers and the army, sometimes on the working classes and popular mobilisations. Such a regime aims at industrial development, particularly through import substitution and the expansion of the domestic market. This may lead to conflicts with the landed gentry and rivalries with imperialism. While land reforms may annoy landlords, restriction on extraction of resources or trade barriers may provoke imperialism. To win the support of the workers, reforms benefitting them may be introduced. This can generate conflict with the capitalist class whose interest populism serves in the final analysis. But any independent activity of the working classes is subverted, through violence if necessary.

Having conceptualized populism thus, characterizing PPP (Bhutto) and PTI (Imran Khan) becomes convenient. Even if PTI is yet to reach the corridors of power, certain indicators are there. For instance, unlike Bhutto Imran Khan does not speak of any wealth redistribution. There is no hint of land reforms, end to privatisation, foreign debt, or nationalisation in his economic programme. Similarly, he has not attempted in any meaningful way to engage either the peasantry or the trade unions, even in populist fashion. Populism at least relies and encourages a system of patronage to win over union and peasant leaderships. While any illusions of meaningful change in populism are bound to be dashed anyway, Imran Khan is not even a populist. The PTI insists on collecting more taxes. But this is what the IMF and World Bank also want Pakistan to do. Better tax collection will help retire Pakistans international debt. Refusing debt repayment is a populism Imran Khan does not even hint at.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-9-129255-Bhutto-and-Imran
 

Nice2MU

President (40k+ posts)
Regarding just last paragraph:

Though Bhutto spoke about redistribution of wealth, land etc. but in real terms he didn't do it rather he made things worst. We know the results of Nationalisation. One can say that though Bhutto got votes and power by uttering such hollow slogans (by making people fool) but he couldn't (or rather he didn't want it) materialise his slogans.

On the other hand PTI tried to give a realistic approach to the issues. PTI can also utter unrealistic slogans but if they wouldn't able to complete it, this writer would be among the first line to curse PTI.

I would say PTI might do more than it if it could quire power and then complete its term.

In addition to that today's Challenges are more than Bhutto's era. He was good in politics like Zardari, but almost zero in economic terms like Zardari.
 

Sohraab

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Regarding just last paragraph:

Though Bhutto spoke about redistribution of wealth, land etc. but in real terms he didn't do it rather he made things worst. We know the results of Nationalisation. One can say that though Bhutto got votes and power by uttering such hollow slogans (by making people fool) but he couldn't (or rather he didn't want it) materialise his slogans.

On the other hand PTI tried to give a realistic approach to the issues. PTI can also utter unrealistic slogans but if they wouldn't able to complete it, this writer would be among the first line to curse PTI.

I would say PTI might do more than it if it could quire power and then complete its term.

In addition to that today's Challenges are more than Bhutto's era. He was good in politics like Zardari, but almost zero in economic terms like Zardari.

Read about bhutto and research about that era then you will know that bhutto is 100 times bigger Hero then Imran khan.
 

saadkiakaray

Minister (2k+ posts)
bhuto was clever politician but he wasnt sencere 2 pakistan n its ppl.ik is greater than him bcoz he believes in ISLAM N ITS HOW TO PRACTICE ISLAM 2 SERVE HUMANS .
 

Nice2MU

President (40k+ posts)
Read about bhutto and research about that era then you will know that bhutto is 100 times bigger Hero then Imran khan.

And what about his role in 1971 war MR? Still people like you consider a person a Hero who divided the country into Two pieces?

He was a traitor for us but might be hero for people like you. I hate him due to his dirty politics of power and power. His daughter was also hungry for power so his descendants are.
 
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Sohraab

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
And what about his role in 1971 war MR? Still people like you consider a person a Hero who divide the country into Two pieces?

He was a traitor for us but might be hero for people like you. I hate him due to his dirty politics of power and power. His daughter was also hungry for power so his descendants are.

Mr pehle zara ja kar thori bohut History parh lo .. us ke baad jitni chaho Bhutto se Nafrat karo

zara thori si research kar lo ke jub 1971 ki war hui to us waqt Pakistan ki Key Posts par koon loog Pakistan ko serve kar rahe thay aur Pakistan Army ki key posts par koon thay aur Yahya khan ka sab se Close Musheer koon tha aur Yahya khan ne kis ko Weapons khareednay ke liye Paisay diye aur phir un paison ka kia hua

Yehi to masla hai PTI ke Kaake Munno aqqal ke anno ka .. Tareekh ka kakh pata nahi hota aur Imran khan ke ilawa baqi sab ko gali dena , un ko critisize karna , un ki bashing karna apna haq samajhte hain

Mujhe yahan par PMLN ke Mushahid Ullah ka woh jumla yaad aa raha hai jo us ne Abrar ul Haq ko kaha tha

PTI ke loogon ko Tareekh ka to kuch pata hota hai nahi aur aa jate hain baat karne ( Mushahid Ullah )
 

KHAN_1

New Member
There is no point comparing Bhutto and Imran khan in the present scenario because Imran khan is not yet in power while bhutto has had him regime and countless parasites and sucking this nation's blood on his name.whatever he is famous for was when he was in power while Khan has yet to get to that stage.
i will strongly recommend these comparists to COMPARE BHUTTO WITH KHAN BEFORE BHUTTO CAME TO POWER not as a PM.
U ll clearly find out vision,plan,strategy of both.
 

KHAN_1

New Member
comparing Bhutto and Khan doesn't make sense bcoz Bhutto had been PM and remained in power while Khan has yet to get there,only then can be compared.
if any1 really want to compare then do it fair and compare Khan with Bhutto before Bhutto came to any power. compare vision,plan,strategy and of course the situation and environment,Only then can make a just judgement.
 

Nice2MU

President (40k+ posts)
Mr pehle zara ja kar thori bohut History parh lo .. us ke baad jitni chaho Bhutto se Nafrat karo

zara thori si research kar lo ke jub 1971 ki war hui to us waqt Pakistan ki Key Posts par koon loog Pakistan ko serve kar rahe thay aur Pakistan Army ki key posts par koon thay aur Yahya khan ka sab se Close Musheer koon tha aur Yahya khan ne kis ko Weapons khareednay ke liye Paisay diye aur phir un paison ka kia hua

Yehi to masla hai PTI ke Kaake Munno aqqal ke anno ka .. Tareekh ka kakh pata nahi hota aur Imran khan ke ilawa baqi sab ko gali dena , un ko critisize karna , un ki bashing karna apna haq samajhte hain

Mujhe yahan par PMLN ke Mushahid Ullah ka woh jumla yaad aa raha hai jo us ne Abrar ul Haq ko kaha tha

PTI ke loogon ko Tareekh ka to kuch pata hota hai nahi aur aa jate hain baat karne ( Mushahid Ullah )

مجھے تاریخ کے سبق پڑھانے کی ضرورت نہیں، مجھے تاریخ کا سبق پڑھانے سے پہلے کچھ اپنا دماغ (اگر ھے تو) ھی استعمال کرلو۔


اگر آپکا لیڈر مسٹر بھٹو اتنا ھی عظیم اور اور مخلص لیڈر تھا تو اپنے دور حکومت میں یحی خان اور دوسرے جرنیلوں (جو مبیّنہ طور پر مشرقی پاکستان کے سانحے کے زمہ دار تھے اور اگر کسی اسلحے کی ڈیل وغیرہ میں ملوث تھے ) کو سزا کیوں نہیں دی ۔ کیا تم کسی جرنیل کا نام بتا سکتے ھو جسکو سزا ھوئی۔ سکندر مرزا اسکو زلفی کہہ کر پکارتے تھے۔


نہیں جناب کسی کو بھی سزا نہیں ھوئی بلکہ مسٹر بھٹو نے تو حمودالرحمان کمشن کی رپورٹ ھی غائب کردی (اور سننے میں آیا ھے کہ اُسکو چھپکے سے بھارت بھیج دیا تھا) جسمیں جرنیلوں اور سیاستدانوں کو سانحہ مشرقی پاکستان کا ملزم ٹھرایا تھا۔ بھٹو تو جرنیلوں کو ھاتھ لگانے کا سوچ کر ھی کانپ جاتا تھا۔


صاف سی بات ھے کہ بھٹو کو حکومت چاھیے تھی جو اُسکو کسی طریقے سے مل گئ باقی کسی کی احتساب کی کیا ضرورت تھی۔ اپنی باشاھت کے لیے مسلے پیدا کرنے کیا ضرورت تھی ملک دو لخت ھو یا چار، اسکو اس سے کیا غرض تھی۔ تمھیں معلوم ھونا چاھیے کہ بھٹو کب سے اس طاقت کے کھیل میں داخل ھوا تھا۔ نہیں معلوم تو میں بتا دیتا ھوں، اُس نے سکندر مزا کے دور حکومت میں صدارتی محل میں قدم رکھا تھا جب اُسکی عمر کوئی جوبیس سے اٹھائیس (ٹھیک عمر میں بھول رھا ھو) سال کے لگ بگ تھی اور سکندرمرزا سے اتنی شناسائی کسیے ھوئی یہ بھی ایک دلچسب سٹوری ھے۔


اگر آپکا لیول یہ ھے کہ مشاھد اللہ جیسے بندوں کو کوٹ کرو جسکا سب کو پتا ھے کہ اُسکو کو بات کرنے کا ڈھنگ ھی نہیں اور آپکی اسکے بے ھودہ فقرے دھرا رھے ھو اور اگر یہی آپکا لیول ھے تو پھر آپکا آللہ ھی حافظ ھو اور آپ سے بحث ھی فضول ھے۔


 

Sohraab

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)

مجھے تاریخ کے سبق پڑھانے کی ضرورت نہیں، مجھے تاریخ کا سبق پڑھانے سے پہلے کچھ اپنا دماغ (اگر ھے تو) ھی استعمال کرلو۔


اگر آپکا لیڈر مسٹر بھٹو اتنا ھی عظیم اور اور مخلص لیڈر تھا تو اپنے دور حکومت میں یحی خان اور دوسرے جرنیلوں (جو مبیّنہ طور پر مشرقی پاکستان کے سانحے کے زمہ دار تھے اور اگر کسی اسلحے کی ڈیل وغیرہ میں ملوث تھے ) کو سزا کیوں نہیں دی ۔ کیا تم کسی جرنیل کا نام بتا سکتے ھو جسکو سزا ھوئی۔ سکندر مرزا اسکو زلفی کہہ کر پکارتے تھے۔


نہیں جناب کسی کو بھی سزا نہیں ھوئی بلکہ مسٹر بھٹو نے تو حمودالرحمان کمشن کی رپورٹ ھی غائب کردی (اور سننے میں آیا ھے کہ اُسکو چھپکے سے بھارت بھیج دیا تھا) جسمیں جرنیلوں اور سیاستدانوں کو سانحہ مشرقی پاکستان کا ملزم ٹھرایا تھا۔ بھٹو تو جرنیلوں کو ھاتھ لگانے کا سوچ کر ھی کانپ جاتا تھا۔


صاف سی بات ھے کہ بھٹو کو حکومت چاھیے تھی جو اُسکو کسی طریقے سے مل گئ باقی کسی کی احتساب کی کیا ضرورت تھی۔ اپنی باشاھت کے لیے مسلے پیدا کرنے کیا ضرورت تھی ملک دو لخت ھو یا چار، اسکو اس سے کیا غرض تھی۔ تمھیں معلوم ھونا چاھیے کہ بھٹو کب سے اس طاقت کے کھیل میں داخل ھوا تھا۔ نہیں معلوم تو میں بتا دیتا ھوں، اُس نے سکندر مزا کے دور حکومت میں صدارتی محل میں قدم رکھا تھا جب اُسکی عمر کوئی جوبیس سے اٹھائیس (ٹھیک عمر میں بھول رھا ھو) سال کے لگ بگ تھی اور سکندرمرزا سے اتنی شناسائی کسیے ھوئی یہ بھی ایک دلچسب سٹوری ھے۔


اگر آپکا لیول یہ ھے کہ مشاھد اللہ جیسے بندوں کو کوٹ کرو جسکا سب کو پتا ھے کہ اُسکو کو بات کرنے کا ڈھنگ ھی نہیں اور آپکی اسکے بے ھودہ فقرے دھرا رھے ھو اور اگر یہی آپکا لیول ھے تو پھر آپکا آللہ ھی حافظ ھو اور آپ سے بحث ھی فضول ھے۔




wah re mere Shahzaday wah (bigsmile)

yeh sab jo likha hai kis se pooch kar aai ho ??

Mera Leader to imran khan hai aur ussi ki Jammat ko main support karta hoon lekin mere main PTI ke majority supporters wali woh baat nahi ke main kisi dosre ki baat ko sunne ki aur us ki theek baat ko theek kehne ki himmat na kar sakoon. yehi woh double standards aur bachkana pann hai jo pure Pakistan main mashoor hai ke PTI ke members galiyan dete hain aur bad zubani karte hain.

Aap farmate hain bhutto ne Gernailon ko saza kuin nahi di .. mere bhai in gernailon ki wajjah se us ki hakumat giri aur woh phansi charha .. Bhutto ki puri life utha kar dekho woh jitne din Prime minister raha army establishment ke saath larta raha aur aakhir phansi charh gaya. Aur aap ne meri is baat ka jawab nahi diya Mohtaram ke 1971 war ke waqt key posts par koon thay ??? .. khair mujhe is baat ka jawab na dain lekin as a Pakistani khud zaroor is bare main tehkeek karain

Baqi main Mushahid ullah ka Fan nahi hoon lekin us Show main Mushahid ullah ne Abrar ul haq ko theek kaha tha ke tareekh ka kuch pata hota hai nahi PTI walon ko ... Abrar ul haq se zara ja kar poocho ke kia woh PTI ke bure waqt main PTI ke saath khara tha ???? Kia woh Imran khan ke bure waqt main Imran khan ke saath khara tha ???? .. Yeh loog to musharraf ke saath thay
 

crazycolors

MPA (400+ posts)
lolz.... he was hanged that is why he is known as a HERO .... 1973 constitution kay ilawa koi aik karnama bata do .... Awami muslim League ka mandate ussnay nahi mana ...... east and west division ...... ghass khilanay ka zimaydar bhutto .... uss time atom bomb bananay ki bajayay yahi paisa taleem pay lagta tu ajj ya koom pata nahi kahan hoti .... atom bomb bana lia hai ab fiker hai uss ko terrorist say kasay bachain .... ya vision tha uss ka ...... nationalization of industries was the second biggest blunder because 100s of industrial giants who were exporter of their product at time later became sick units and now a days most of these factories are rusting .... bahi phansi mil gai tabhi hero hai warna koi karnama bata doo .... bengaliyoun ko sara e amm Suwar kaha uss nay ..... ahemadiyoun ko non-muslim ka status ....pata nahi kya hai us ki list pay ....

Read about bhutto and research about that era then you will know thhat bhutto is 100 times bigger Hero then Imran khan.
 

Zulfi Khan

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I do not want to argue with any one about Bhutto and Imran Khan. It is useless to discuss
about Bhutto because he is no more alive so I consider imran Khan as number one leader in
Pakstan.

Every one who writes against Imran Khan, considers that we are fool to believe in his story or
biased opinion towards Imran Khan. How foolish they are ! Imran Khan never ruled Pakistan and
every one finds faults with him. Imran Khan is better than those who ruled Pakistan.
 

Sohraab

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
lolz.... he was hanged that is why he is known as a HERO .... 1973 constitution kay ilawa koi aik karnama bata do .... Awami muslim League ka mandate ussnay nahi mana ...... east and west division ...... ghass khilanay ka zimaydar bhutto .... uss time atom bomb bananay ki bajayay yahi paisa taleem pay lagta tu ajj ya koom pata nahi kahan hoti .... atom bomb bana lia hai ab fiker hai uss ko terrorist say kasay bachain .... ya vision tha uss ka ...... nationalization of industries was the second biggest blunder because 100s of industrial giants who were exporter of their product at time later became sick units and now a days most of these factories are rusting .... bahi phansi mil gai tabhi hero hai warna koi karnama bata doo .... bengaliyoun ko sara e amm Suwar kaha uss nay ..... ahemadiyoun ko non-muslim ka status ....pata nahi kya hai us ki list pay ....

chalo yaar sare kaam bohut bure kiye thay bhutto ne lekin yeh jo last main aap ne AhmaQiyon ka zikar e khair kia yeh bohut acha kaam kiya tha bhutto ne ;) SHABASH BHUTTO
 

crazycolors

MPA (400+ posts)
Acha kiya ya bura leader kay faisaly waqat kay sath sath sabbit ker daitay hian kay woh kitnay achay thay ab nationalization ka faisla daikhoo aur phir.... un ko non-muslim krar day kay kya pa lia ... iss pooray mulak mai naam nihad musalman phirtay hain 2 char lakh woh hotay tu kon si qiyamat aa jani thi ..... barhal jitna divide keroo gay utna kamzoor ho gay ...... ab un ka masla solve ho gaya ..... tu molvi saalay aik dosray kay pichay parh gayay aur shia sunni fasaad ....

chalo yaar sare kaam bohut bure kiye thay bhutto ne lekin yeh jo last main aap ne AhmaQiyon ka zikar e khair kia yeh bohut acha kaam kiya tha bhutto ne ;) SHABASH BHUTTO
 

Nice2MU

President (40k+ posts)
wah re mere Shahzaday wah (bigsmile)

yeh sab jo likha hai kis se pooch kar aai ho ??

Mera Leader to imran khan hai aur ussi ki Jammat ko main support karta hoon lekin mere main PTI ke majority supporters wali woh baat nahi ke main kisi dosre ki baat ko sunne ki aur us ki theek baat ko theek kehne ki himmat na kar sakoon. yehi woh double standards aur bachkana pann hai jo pure Pakistan main mashoor hai ke PTI ke members galiyan dete hain aur bad zubani karte hain.

Aap farmate hain bhutto ne Gernailon ko saza kuin nahi di .. mere bhai in gernailon ki wajjah se us ki hakumat giri aur woh phansi charha .. Bhutto ki puri life utha kar dekho woh jitne din Prime minister raha army establishment ke saath larta raha aur aakhir phansi charh gaya. Aur aap ne meri is baat ka jawab nahi diya Mohtaram ke 1971 war ke waqt key posts par koon thay ??? .. khair mujhe is baat ka jawab na dain lekin as a Pakistani khud zaroor is bare main tehkeek karain

Baqi main Mushahid ullah ka Fan nahi hoon lekin us Show main Mushahid ullah ne Abrar ul haq ko theek kaha tha ke tareekh ka kuch pata hota hai nahi PTI walon ko ... Abrar ul haq se zara ja kar poocho ke kia woh PTI ke bure waqt main PTI ke saath khara tha ???? Kia woh Imran khan ke bure waqt main Imran khan ke saath khara tha ???? .. Yeh loog to musharraf ke saath thay


Which General hanged him? Was those the same Generals who were involved in 1971? No it was not the case.

General Yahya was given full protocol on his death. Bhutto has never been in any conflict with Army established rather he suppressed Judiciary to encounter Army. Once Bhutto asked the Chief Justice of Lahore High court to stop hearing of case against an army colonel in court but I think you don't know it?

If Bhutto would control Army after 1971, when its moral was so low and punished each general harshly, army wouldn't hang him in 1978 but one must recall that Bhutto was hanged due to his stupid way of government e.g. there were more than 50,000 political prisoners in Jails, Baluchistan was attacked by army in his era and son of Akhtar Mengal was killed in his govt. after removing Mrngal's govt. It was Bhutto who thrown away Mufti Mehmood from CM-ship.........Bhutto's era was full stupid actions and such stories.

Could you please tell me one story in which he pressured army or he was in a conflict with army establishment?

No need to ask me irrelevant questions. I am not going to answer any irrelevant question that who were the army officers. Whoever they were, why were not they punished afterwards?
 

Nice2MU

President (40k+ posts)
chalo yaar sare kaam bohut bure kiye thay bhutto ne lekin yeh jo last main aap ne AhmaQiyon ka zikar e khair kia yeh bohut acha kaam kiya tha bhutto ne ;) SHABASH BHUTTO


He was not the only who declared Ahmadi as non-Muslim? In that case, all the parliament were hero then.

And if so even then he can't become the Hero of all the nation for this one act.
 

adil786

Minister (2k+ posts)
Bhutto was wining the election just against general ayub a dictator & when he got a another opponent shaik mojeeb the country was broken but in the other hand Imran khan is fighting against a big mafia which include zerdari, Nawaz ,altaf, ch sujahet, asfendyaar & molana diesel & in the last the hole status co. So bhutto had in first one opponent second time again shaik mojeeb,but Imran khan fitting against big gang of crooks,now decide who is big leader.
What was bhutto achievement was a nuclear bomb it's ok other one is constitution which every person of the country can use for himself by doing his own interpatation what els nothing.
 

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