Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is WTF

[babadeena]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

Curse of Allah on the inventers!!!!

InshaAllah
This is definitely a forgery.

You misunderstood me. I meant that all those who have invented such things in our religion are accursed by Allah. Would that I had power to chop down these people's heads specially of those Qawals who are spreading Shrik in our Religion. A Mushrik is more dangerous that a Kafir because Mushrik does hypocricy and that is why that Allah has made harram Janat for Mushraykeen. All those who were doing that in Video are Mushriks, they are Fitna in our Religion. Their Heads should be chopped down and made an example for others. Allah's curse on such people.

 

[GeoG]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

Curse of Allah on the inventers!!!!

InshaAllah
This is definitely a forgery.

You misunderstood me. I meant that all those who have invented such things in our religion are accursed by Allah. Would that I had power to chop down these people's heads specially of those Qawals who are spreading Shrik in our Religion. A Mushrik is more dangerous that a Kafir because Mushrik does hypocricy and that is why that Allah has made harram Janat for Mushraykeen. All those who were doing that in Video are Mushriks, they are Fitna in our Religion. Their Heads should be chopped down and made an example for others. Allah's curse on such people.

Brother Babadeena,

You are right I probably misunderstood you and I assumed you were cursing the people who created this forgery.
Brother, I have a very limited knowledge of my religion and have been very keenly reading yours and Patriot debate with Brothers Suchbolo, Taul and Abduttawab and I must admit I have been lost in your two schools of thoughts where your school preaches Quran and nothing else is the guidance of our life and Suchbolo's school seem to advocating that our religion is complete with Quran, Hadeeth, Sunna.

This particular issue is about going to tombs and singing of Naa'ts and Qawalis. I am excluding Dhamal and Bhangra becasue even I am certain that it not part of our religion rather a subcontinent tradition from other religions.
My question, is it a Shirk and Haram to go to Olya Dargahs. Please bear in mind that I am not asking Sajda at Olya, Sajda is only to Allah.
Lets put it this way, if you have a choice to say Jumma Prayer, would you go to Badshahi Masjad or Datta Ganj Baksh Masjad and I repeat again, no sajda to Olya but only to Allah.

Finally on this particular video, would you agree with me that it is a forgery made with the intention of maligning a particular sect.

 

[rahat]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

I think it is a video created by Indian to mislead Islam It clearly shows the sound dubbed which don't have any noise of the crowd. The sence look like the Hindues/ Sikhs celebrationsin India, which they are posinf at Lal Shahbaz Qalindrer Tomb. The language used in it clearly eleborate the motive of Hindus properganda.

 

[gazoomartian]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

I think it is a video created by Indian to mislead Islam It clearly shows the sound dubbed which don't have any noise of the crowd. The sence look like the Hindues/ Sikhs celebrationsin India, which they are posinf at Lal Shahbaz Qalindrer Tomb. The language used in it clearly eleborate the motive of Hindus properganda.

Come to think of it. Now that you said, it makes perfect sense that the video has been created by Indian(s) to spread blasphemy agains Islam and put doubts in our hearts. But least they know that Muslim's iman is solidly founded deep down than surface. We have unshakable faith.

 

[foqia khan]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

http://jootaymaro.com/bagairat-log-a-perfect-place-to-test-wmd-all-i-can-say-is-wtf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pzwnn8Syjo[/video]

Great video.
I Love this baba. True presentation of Pakistani cart and culture..lol

we 'll be happy if u import your love(baba ji) to your country, I 'm sure he will well adjust there. :D

 

[rizwan1003]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

Now I am convinced that we have a lot of Extremists on this forum. To all those who think that these people should be blown apart and WMDs should be used on them, I just want to tell them that they seem to be peaceful people, they are not harming any one. Let them practice their cult, leave them alone brother. Islam doesn't allow us to kill innocent people on the basis of religion. Let Allah Almighty judge them if they are mushriq or not, we have no right to even judge them, every one is responsible for ones own deeds. Believe me we have no right to kill them, Islam doesn't allow us to that. Brothers please stop killing each other on the basis of religion.
Brothers, there are a lot of human beings on earth, almost six Billion of them, we have to understand that most of them are different from each other. They have their own concept of God, many of them don't even believe in God. We have to understand that people can have difference of opinion, they belong to different cultures, they grew up in communities which are different from ours and they have different religions. We have to accept this reality, we can't start killing people who are different than us.

 

[taul]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

@ brother GeoG



--Brother there's a little reservation amongst us but the overall picture seems to be very clear,when any Non-muslim embraces Islam he's asked to read "The Holy Quran" being the "Only Divine and Sacred Holy Book of Allah ( SWT)" and is asked to read with the translation as well as the commentary ( Tafseer) of it,you can get your hands on "Maariful Quran by Mufti Muhammad Shafi Usmani" or another one from Saudi Arabia with the urdu translation, so the emphasis is quite evident on reading this divine and sacred book,one may consult an authentic scholar of Islam if anything becomes unclear to understand from The Holy Quran or require more clarity.


--Having said this we as muslims need to follow the Sunnah of our Holy Prophet ( peace be upon him) and obey him in every aspect be it his sayings or his actions.We know there had been some fabrications as well as hadeeth that are not that strong and are weak and Alhamdulillah Islamic Scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah-Wal Jama'a have done an excellent job in sidelining those that seem to be less authentic and or fabrications.We muslims must accept them and follow them.I'm sure brother babadeena must adhere by the Sunnah as well while praying,eating and in other chores of his daily life :)



--As far as your query regarding dargah is concerned i had already seen this full and entire video long before it got posted,For an argument sake let's say even if it's fake,there is no place in Islam for it and unfortunately and sadly such bidaats ( inventions) exist only in the Sub-continent ( you can pretty much connect the dots why this region only) and you would not get to see them in the rest of muslim world.There's no doubt about "Auliya Allah" but such practices were initiated after their demise and people misguidedly and ignorantly started to make new and new things in order to celebrate their death :roll: there's no concept of making such a special place for any kinda tribute for the sole purpose of gathering there for making dua for the deceased,it should be just like any other grave and just like a usual graveyard where people would only go to say "Fatiha" for the deceased.There's not even a single doubt in anybody's mind that a lot of shirk takes places there and people quite sadly have become immune to it due to the reasons of lacking knowledge,Plain ignorance and secondly unwilling to hear out the truth as it is and admit it.We must "Never ever" yield to such "Satanic whispers" of there's nothing wrong ( which is precisely Biddah in Islam) in building such places but should always and i mean always see whether such festivities were carried out at the time of Our Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) or even after this time.These things were never ever practiced even perceived let alone considered holy by Sahaba-e- kiram Ajmaeen..This fake and phony baba's outfit and the hairstyle should be enough to raise eyebrows of anyone :) Namaaz is farz and we can pray it in any masjid as long as no shirk activity (if close to any dargah) is going on there.People need to be told about the utmost importance of Namaaz rather than encouraged to go to such shirkiya places that have no places in Islam at all for any kinda reverence and then intentionally or unintentionally getting indulged in shirk and inviting the wrath of Allah (SWT),Auliya Allah themselves should be respected but most importantly Islam in it's true spirit need to be acquired and learnt.

 

[GeoG]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

Jazak Allah Khair Brother Taul.
Thanks a Million.
You have cleared a few questions in my mind.

 

[taul]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

Jazak Allah Khair Brother Taul.
Thanks a Million.
You have cleared a few questions in my mind.

--You're always welcome brother :D

 

[butshikan]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

Jazak Allah Khair Brother Taul.

[clap] [clap]
very nicely summarized [clap]

 

[babadeena]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

Brother GeoG,

You are right I probably misunderstood you and I assumed you were cursing the people who created this forgery.Brother, I have a very limited knowledge of my religion and have been very keenly reading yours and Patriot debate with Brothers Suchbolo, Taul and Abduttawab and I must admit I have been lost in your two schools of thoughts where your school preaches Quran and nothing else is the guidance of our life and Suchbolo's school seem to advocating that our religion is complete with Quran, Hadeeth, Sunna.

I was cursing and loudly n clear the "Mushriks in the guise of Muslims". Please do not get lost in our discussion. You may adopt your own way of thought after reading all type of material. I do not belong to ANY SCHOOL ( U may be amazed) Mine ideas may be similar to someone group but definitely I do not belong them.In fact, I do not like to be recognized or identified as in any "sect" whatsoever, it may be. My firm belief based on Quran is that anyone recognizing him/her will taste hell fire or some kind of Azab. The Irony is that "people specially those intoxicated in their own made theories", in a knee-jerk reaction, pull out their gun of labeling the one who draws their attention to Quran as "Hadith rejecter or Sunnah rejecter". These people are so afraid of arguments from Quran, really that is amazing. You can make your own choice.

This particular issue is about going to tombs and singing of Naa'ts and Qawalis. I am excluding Dhamal and Bhangra becasue even I am certain that it not part of our religion rather a subcontinent tradition from other religions.

Going to Tombs is the business of "those" who do not believe that "Allah is everywhere and He hears You. Singing of Naa'ts and Qawalis, lead someone no where. It is only rhythm of Tabla, Sarangee, harmonium nothing else. I suppose we copied this from our neighbour culture. Some words (Sher) of Qawali or Naat are terrible to define. I do not take them as religious but only music.

My question, is it a Shirk and Haram to go to Olya Dargahs. Please bear in mind that I am not asking Sajda at Olya, Sajda is only to Allah.
Lets put it this way, if you have a choice to say Jumma Prayer, would you go to Badshahi Masjad or Datta Ganj Baksh Masjad and I repeat again, no sajda to Olya but only to Allah.

Depends upon the "intention" and "actions" performed there. The million dollar question is what is the concept of people to tend to that places. Allah is everywhere and He responds the prayer of His servants. For Jumma prayer you can go to any place, your intention is to pray Juma. That is fine.

Finally on this particular video, would you agree with me that it is a forgery made with the intention of maligning a particular sect.

"All those who are directly or indirectly involved in this act" are those on whom Allah has made Janat Haraam. The source for this is Quran.
Moreover Brother Taul has also given you good presentation.
May Allah save us of every kind of Shirk, direct or indirect. Ameen.

 

[babadeena]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

I'm sure brother babadeena must adhere by the Sunnah as well while praying,eating and in other chores of his daily life :)

Sunnah, Yes, absolutely and no doubt screened through Quran. and Same with Hadiths. Unfortunately we Muslims remember Sunnah only when a large number of people as guests come to our home and there is dearth of beds and then we proclaim let us complete Sunnah to sleep on Floors. Before that we do not remember even the word of Sunnah. Brother I can give you one example:
The Emphasis is on Cleaning. You can clean your teeth by tooth paste/bursh etc or also with Muswaak. The chilling factor is that "half learned" gives Fatwas on those who use Paste/bursh. I always ask them Go overseas and cross Atlantic on donkeys, camles etc. I think it is clear mine way of adopting the Sunnah and others.
waslaam

 

[taul]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

Brother I can give you one example:

The Emphasis is on Cleaning. You can clean your teeth by tooth paste/bursh etc or also with Muswaak. The chilling factor is that "half learned" gives Fatwas on those who use Paste/bursh. I always ask them Go overseas and cross Atlantic on donkeys, camles etc. I think it is clear mine way of adopting the Sunnah and others.
waslaam

--Brother you seem quite harsh when presenting your ideas :| I asked whether you adhere to Sunnah while praying that meant keeping your pants above the ankle?Similarly laying on the right side while sleeping??and since it's a religious exchange of information a little warm attitude may be displayed and adopted :)

 

[GeoG]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

Brother GeoG,

You are right I probably misunderstood you and I assumed you were cursing the people who created this forgery.Brother, I have a very limited knowledge of my religion and have been very keenly reading yours and Patriot debate with Brothers Suchbolo, Taul and Abduttawab and I must admit I have been lost in your two schools of thoughts where your school preaches Quran and nothing else is the guidance of our life and Suchbolo's school seem to advocating that our religion is complete with Quran, Hadeeth, Sunna.

I was cursing and loudly n clear the "Mushriks in the guise of Muslims". Please do not get lost in our discussion. You may adopt your own way of thought after reading all type of material. I do not belong to ANY SCHOOL ( U may be amazed) Mine ideas may be similar to someone group but definitely I do not belong them.In fact, I do not like to be recognized or identified as in any "sect" whatsoever, it may be. My firm belief based on Quran is that anyone recognizing him/her will taste hell fire or some kind of Azab. The Irony is that "people specially those intoxicated in their own made theories", in a knee-jerk reaction, pull out their gun of labeling the one who draws their attention to Quran as "Hadith rejecter or Sunnah rejecter". These people are so afraid of arguments from Quran, really that is amazing. You can make your own choice.
[quote:xficd50t]This particular issue is about going to tombs and singing of Naa'ts and Qawalis. I am excluding Dhamal and Bhangra becasue even I am certain that it not part of our religion rather a subcontinent tradition from other religions.

Going to Tombs is the business of "those" who do not believe that "Allah is everywhere and He hears You. Singing of Naa'ts and Qawalis, lead someone no where. It is only rhythm of Tabla, Sarangee, harmonium nothing else. I suppose we copied this from our neighbour culture. Some words (Sher) of Qawali or Naat are terrible to define. I do not take them as religious but only music.

My question, is it a Shirk and Haram to go to Olya Dargahs. Please bear in mind that I am not asking Sajda at Olya, Sajda is only to Allah.
Lets put it this way, if you have a choice to say Jumma Prayer, would you go to Badshahi Masjad or Datta Ganj Baksh Masjad and I repeat again, no sajda to Olya but only to Allah.

Depends upon the "intention" and "actions" performed there. The million dollar question is what is the concept of people to tend to that places. Allah is everywhere and He responds the prayer of His servants. For Jumma prayer you can go to any place, your intention is to pray Juma. That is fine.

Finally on this particular video, would you agree with me that it is a forgery made with the intention of maligning a particular sect.

"All those who are directly or indirectly involved in this act" are those on whom Allah has made Janat Haraam. The source for this is Quran.
Moreover Brother Taul has also given you good presentation.
May Allah save us of every kind of Shirk, direct or indirect. Ameen.[/quote:xficd50t]

Brother Babadeena,

Jazak Allah,
Thanks a lot for your kind response and appreciating Brother Taul, on his behalf, if I may.

My apologies for not carefully using words and I did not mean to associate you with any one Fiqa or Sect like Wahabi, Sunni, Deobandi

I will take liberty in asking you one more question and this is for my knowledge only, I will not respond, argue or ask further questions about it.

I used to and still like to listen t Qari Waheed Zafar, specially in Ramadan. There is no music in the background. Is this acceptable in Islam?

Thanks once again.

 

[babadeena]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

I used to and still like to listen t Qari Waheed Zafar, specially in Ramadan. There is no music in the background. Is this acceptable in Islam?

Brother! No idea! I have not listened him. Therefore I cannot say anything until and unless I listen to him, his words, his text and then will screen it through Quran. Therefore, please I express my inability to say anything.
Thanks for your post.

 

[babadeena]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

Brother you seem quite harsh when presenting your ideas :|

Brother I did not mean it to you. Nothing to you specific.

I asked whether you adhere to Sunnah while praying that meant keeping your pants above the ankle?

My Sunnah in praying is "Stand for Allah Qanayteen(with devotion), Towards, Qibla,
etc. etc. this sort of pants above the ankle or down is of no importance. Some do up some do not. The main thing is "devotion to Allah"

Similarly laying on the right side while sleeping??

Noom(Sleep) is Allah is gift (blessing) and for Sakoon(peace), it may come while laying on the right or left side. These are again not so important things. One should be thankful to Allah, for sleep and say Alhamudillah when get up.

and since it's a religious exchange of information a little warm attitude may be displayed and adopted :)

As I said nothing to you specific. U r welcome. And I am sorry if you felt the way I wrote something.

 

[taul]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

@ brother babadeena



--I just felt you were kinda uptight but i appreciate your understanding :) There's absolutely no question or slightest of a doubt about "The Holy Quran being the Ultimate Divine and Sacred Holy word of and book by Allah ( SWT) and it's Authority is truly absolute and everlasting for all the times" I was just wondering if you got to learn The Holy Quran via some Scholar or may be a good Islamic teacher and did you get to read it along with tafseer if yes then of whom?

 

[babadeena]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

@ brother babadeena



--I just felt you were kinda uptight but i appreciate your understanding :) There's absolutely no question or slightest of a doubt about "The Holy Quran being the Ultimate Divine and Sacred Holy word of and book by Allah ( SWT) and it's Authority is truly absolute and everlasting for all the times" I was just wondering if you got to learn The Holy Quran via some Scholar or may be a good Islamic teacher and did you get to read it along with tafseer if yes then of whom?

@ Brother Taul,
To read the Arabic text, like anyone, I learned it from Maulvi(Master). But for quite long time in life, just read it for "sawab only". Then due to an "accident" in life, I totally and wholly turned towards Quran. I got translations of as much scholars as possible. Now Alhmadulillha, and Millions of Thanks to my Allah, I have understanding of Quran. I cannot say that I did not "consult" Tafsir but percentage was only 2% because to me Quran is the easiest, you do not need anything like Tafsir etc to understand it. I really wonder when people make it a big "hawa(complex problem)" and are made "afraid" to go near to it. for me to follow Quran is: "obedience of Allah and Rasool(as);
b) solution to our all problems; c) peaceful, sect-free life and salvation in the Hereafter;.
Thanks.

 

[taul]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

@ Brother Taul,
To read the Arabic text, like anyone, I learned it from Maulvi(Master). But for quite long time in life, just read it for "sawab only". Then due to an "accident" in life, I totally and wholly turned towards Quran. I got translations of as much scholars as possible. Now Alhmadulillha, and Millions of Thanks to my Allah, I have understanding of Quran. I cannot say that I did not "consult" Tafsir but percentage was only 2% because to me Quran is the easiest, you do not need anything like Tafsir etc to understand it. I really wonder when people make it a big "hawa(complex problem)" and are made "afraid" to go near to it. for me to follow Quran is: "obedience of Allah and Rasool(as);
b) solution to our all problems; c) peaceful, sect-free life and salvation in the Hereafter;.
Thanks.

--Brother,I truly admire your passion for learning the literal meaning of The Holy Quran,the reason i inquired about tafseer is you do need "context" of the Ayaats to fully understand what is being said and meant.Apart from this you said you do take into consideration the hadeeth which coincides with The Holy Quran and follow Sunnah as well which i'm a little confused with coz you said earlier you do not look up to them as significant.

 

[babadeena]

Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is

the reason i inquired about tafseer is you do need "context" of the Ayaats to fully understand what is being said and meant.

This is general feeling or prevalent idea. But in reality it is not the case. The verses themselves give you text, with reference to context, sequence etc. At least I find them like this.

Apart from this you said you do take into consideration the hadeeth which coincides with The Holy Quran and follow Sunnah as well which i'm a little confused with coz you said earlier you do not look up to them as significant.

Brother! Let me clarify it. If stated-Hadith or stated-Sunnah is not against the Quranic teaching, then there is no problem in accepting and implementing. An example: Quran says that "No one knows Gaib(unseen), except Allah," . Even in Quran, our Prophet(PBUH) said that "I do not know unseen". Now if anyone tries to be justifying the same thing with the help of Hadiths, that I will not accept.
"significant" I mean that If someone is praying Salaat with all the pre-requistes of Quran, Like Wazoo, Rakoo, Sajida, Hamid, Tasbih, Darood, so keeping pant above ankle or down become insignificant because this is disputed.
I hope I am clear.