A conversation about faith, a dialogue about life !!!

[canadian]

[FONT=verdana,Arial]A conversation about faith, a dialogue about life[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica]By: Muhamad Ali [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]The Jakarta Post* - [/FONT]

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Last Friday I wrote in the morning, went to campus to collect student papers and then went to a nearby mosque for Friday prayers and to listen to the sermon. After that I went to Starbucks to grade my students' papers and to meet my wife who was waiting for me there.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]We later filled up the car with gas and went to a store to find a gift for a high-school friend in Jakarta who wanted a gorilla doll for his daughter. I hadn't been having any luck with the doll; I went to Toys r Us, Ross and now this store. No success.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]On the way home we stopped at a Muslim Egyptian grocery store like we usually do to buy chicken and some Asian or Middle Eastern items. We usually go to different stores for groceries and daily necessities. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]This visit was interesting. In the store a lady asked me: "Are you Filipino?" I am used to that question and smiled and replied, "No, I am Indonesian." She said, "O, I see." And then we were silent. I broke the silence: "Where are you from? Are you from Egypt?" I asked this knowing I was in an Egyptian store and that the woman had spoken Arabic with the owner. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]I also had a naive assumption about identifying strangers by how they appear. She said: "No, I am from Syria." She continued: "I am an Armenian who lives in Syria. We speak Armenian and Arabic in Syria. In the past, the Ottoman Empire forced Christian Armenians to convert to Islam or they had to leave." I said, "So you remain in your religion?" She nodded. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]She then asked: "What religion are you?" I replied: "Muslim, and I teach about Islam at a university." She nodded. Then she took her items to the cashier, who was an Egyptian woman who always wore a headscarf - the owner. They spoke in Arabic. The lady paid and as she was leaving the store looked at me and said, "Nice to meet you," and I said, "Nice to meet you." She left the store. My wife and I did as well after paying for our items.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]"Education is the way out of many prejudices and problems facing humankind."[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]As we walked to the car the same lady spoke to me from her car as she was about to drive away, saying: "I wanted to tell you that we have to learn about one religion and other religions." And I said, "Yes, I agree". Then she said, "I wanted to tell you that Islam teaches about killing people, like the chapter Al-Taubah of the Koran states, 'qatilullazina laa yumiinuuna billaahi wa laa bil yam al-akhir' [Kill those who believe not in Allah nor the Last day], whereas the Christian Bible teaches 'love your enemy'." "See," she said. I responded that we needed to understand the context. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]That chapter, as in any other chapter or in any other scripture, needed to be taken in context. She nodded, but didn't seem convinced by my explanation about "context". She said again, "Islam teaches killing non-Muslims." I said: "Well, Muslims kill people," but Islam has been interpreted in various ways. She was still sitting in her car and I was standing beside it. My wife was waiting for me in our car. She said goodbye and I said, "Hope to see you again." And we left. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]From this brief encounter I now feel more and more committed to teaching about Islam and different religions contextually and with various approaches. Sure, literal interpretations prevail, but there are other methods of interpretation. [/FONT]

​

The complete verse of Al-Taubah verse 29 reads: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya, a poll tax, with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." This verse literally justifies the subjugation of non-Muslims under Muslim rulers, and proclaims war against them in any situation.

This verse has been used by Muslims today to justify their acts against non-Muslim minorities although they now live in nation-states. The context suggests that the verse was sent down with the previous verses and the following ones during times of war when some non-Muslim leaders planned to attack Muhammad and Muslims. This interpretation is not shared by all Muslims and non-Muslims, as they approach the Koran differently and with set objectives.

I realize that that woman's interpretation was not representative of Syrians or Christians about Islam. Monolithic and negative perceptions of Islam may exist for a variety of reasons, like reading the scripture from a particular lens as a mechanism to justify one's own faith and demonize another.

People might simply hear one-sided opinions from a particular perspective from the television, the news or priests or preachers in their temples, churches or mosques about other religions. Some Muslims did and do still kill other Muslims and non-Muslims in some parts of the world, and use the Koran to rationalize it.

I wonder about similar situations when Muslims hear about Christianity, Judaism or any other religion through the partial quoting of one or two verses and then come to believe strongly in a biased interpretation of certain texts or scriptures.

Is this situation a common one for all religious individuals regarding other religions and other religious communities? Are people passively intolerant toward other religions, although only a few ever actually turn violent against others?

Education is the way out of many prejudices and problems facing humankind, enlightening education that discusses the complexity and diversity of religious convictions and practices. We may have our own prejudices about others, but we may also not be literate enough about our own faith and convictions, religious or not.

Source: The Jakarta Post - Muhamad Ali. The writer is an assistant professor of Islamic studies at the University of California, Riverside.(http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=JP1103-4591)

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[Unicorn]

The writer says that the literal translation prevails. I have heard this verse quoted before, taken on its straight face value at least it appears that context is not required its strait forward. It will help if the details of the context are reveled.

The context that it apply if a non Muslim army has attacked Muslim army just doesn't make any sense but one can comes to terms with it on the basis that anything goes if you are attacked. If the neighboring non Muslim community has not attacked Muslims it still orders Muslims to fight them for the reason that they don't believe in Allah.

What does it mean for a Muslim who lives in Germany and none of his neighbors believe in Allah or the messenger.

Writer correctly states that the education helps but the education on the most part is literal it should not be taken metaphorically.

On a pleasant note so far no one have asked me to convert or pay a poll tax:lol:

 

[Mughal1]

The writer says that the literal translation prevails. I have heard this verse quoted before, taken on its straight face value at least it appears that context is not required its strait forward. It will help if the details of the context are reveled.

The context that it apply if a non Muslim army has attacked Muslim army just doesn't make any sense but one can comes to terms with it on the basis that anything goes if you are attacked. If the neighboring non Muslim community has not attacked Muslims it still orders Muslims to fight them for the reason that they don't believe in Allah.

What does it mean for a Muslim who lives in Germany and none of his neighbors believe in Allah or the messenger.

Writer correctly states that the education helps but the education on the most part is literal it should not be taken metaphorically.

On a pleasant note so far no one have asked me to convert or pay a poll tax:lol:

Dear Unicorn, there is nothing that exist in the known universe that is without any context or perspective.

All that exists is part of everything that exists. However, once we realise there is a larger picture we can also isolate things and try and understand them as well.

The Quran is nothing different from that. If it is please be kind to show so that I may learn because all I know is what I am explaining.

The context of any single verse of the quran is the real world situations and circumstances interlaced with context of the verse within the quran and particularly within the Surah itself.

In time of prophet muhammad, there were various world views just like today. Arabia was not immmuned from that. Muhammad put forth his vision in form of the Quran. Obviously when various view points compete some win some lose.

Islam was found more convincing as compared to what was already there. Now people who were opponents, did not like this so they try to get muhammad on their side by various tricks as told in the Quran. Muhammad and his genuine followers could not be persuaded by any means they used, so conspiracies and open attacks start just usual stuff for any new movement which is opposed by people to bring it down any way they can at any stage they can.

So all surahs and verses in the quran that talk about fights and wars are in this context. The context makes it clear beyond a shadow of doubt that muhammad reacted against existing situation and circumstances and as he succeeded more and more animosity by his opposers also increased.

The question is, was muhammad right in opposing what was already there? The answer is yes,because what was there was not good for majority of the people there.

The worst affected joined the movement even though muhammad personally was not that effected by what was going on. He had no personal reason to start the movement he either did it because Allah told him or because he sympathised with people that suffered but they were not courageous enough to start the movement.

If he started due to Allah's commandment then he could do no wrong because Allah does not like wicked people.

If he was of kind sort then again he could do no harm to others because humanists never hold grudges nor wish to be something other than good human beings to help others.

Obviusly he did not want to be a ruler because he did not rule like kings and did not put forth any such plan before his tribe and when they put such plan before him he rejected it. One needs to look at the fact that he fought against his own tribe and you never do that if you want to be a king or chief because that is your root support or starting strength.

All this makes clear that Muhammad was a good man who wanted to help others be good.

However, not everyone has the ambition to be good and helpful for others. Not only that but some people are also full of very wicked ambitions and desires.

Now those who have the wicked ambitions and desires they are bound to plan things to get their ends so they try all they can and so did the people who opposed muhammad. The choice for them was simple, if he succeeds they will fail.

Thus jews ended up doing what is stated in the quran and muhammad reacted as stated in the quran.

The quran is a unique book but that is not my point here. Here I am trying to explain the context of things that are stated in the quran regarding the verse under discussion 9/29.

Surah nine is 2nd last in revelation sequence ie it was revealed as 113 and there are 114 surahs in total in the quran.

This surah is about principle of treaties between people or states or kingdoms and rules of engagement and purpose of armed jihad.

Coming to verse 9/29, the verse is not about forcefully converting people to islam.

The verse identifies people who are target of attack and the reason is given clearly within the verse as to why are they to be attacked or subjugated. These three points are clear from the verse itself.

Muslims are told to attack all such nonmuslims who do harm to others by word and by deed and by actul war.

This is not war against any religion nor any nonmuslim people just because they happen to be nonmuslims. The quran identifies these people by saying that they are nonmuslims but not all nonmuslims just those who deserve to be fought against because they do not believe even in common human decency.

Islam gives seven common principles freedom, justice, fairness, compassion, brotherhood, progress and prosperity. War is not allowed against any people who hold on to these common principles. If anyone is against these principles he not accepted a decent human being.

Islam leaves people free to chose their own personal faith with which they are happy but it does not leave people free to abuse each other.

Islam gives freedom to people to exchnage views about god and they are free to be atheists or theists or anything else but because humanity is interdependent in its daily living people must act when they see anyone doing any harm to anyone regardless of one's faith or no faith.

Nowhere in the quranic context it is said to any muslim go and kill any nonmuslim.

The wording used in the quran is its style for identifying people and then their deeds whereof they are to be taken to task eg kill the kafir because he killed somebody is quranic way of talking to people.

The quran identifies a person or group and then gives reason for taking any action about him or them.

Hope this explanation will help people read the quran and understand it better.

regards and all the best.


http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...en-plz!-Nice-Column-by-Orya-Maqbool-Jan/page5


http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?50607-Pakistan-religion-secularism-amp-tribalism

 

[Newt0n]

Nowhere in the quranic context it is said to any muslim go and kill any nonmuslim.

Just to better understand this point Mughal1 mentioned.... kindly go through these verses as well....

[SIZE=5.2][/SIZE]لَّا يَنۡهَٮٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمۡ يُقَـٰتِلُوكُمۡ فِى ٱلدِّينِ وَلَمۡ يُخۡرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَـٰرِكُمۡ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمۡ وَتُقۡسِطُوٓاْ إِلَيۡہِمۡ*ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُحِبُّ ٱلۡمُقۡسِطِينَ (٨) [SIZE=5.2]إِنَّمَا يَنۡہَٮٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِينَ قَـٰتَلُوكُمۡ فِى ٱلدِّينِ وَأَخۡرَجُوڪُم مِّن دِيَـٰرِكُمۡ وَظَـٰهَرُواْ عَلَىٰٓ إِخۡرَاجِكُمۡ أَن تَوَلَّوۡهُمۡ*ۚ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُمۡ فَأُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ هُمُ ٱلظَّـٰلِمُونَ [/SIZE]
[SIZE=5.2][/SIZE]​

[SIZE=5.2]
[/SIZE][SIZE=2.2][/SIZE][SIZE=2.2]Allh does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes. Verily, Allh loves those who deal with equity. (8) [/SIZE][SIZE=2.2]It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allh forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zlimn (wrong-doers those who disobey Allh). [/SIZE]
Sura-e-al Mumtahina (verse 8 & 9)

 

[Unicorn]

This particular piece is more about dialog of life less about faith conversation. A dialog about life can be more constructive even when discussed with religious perspective.

The writer has no way of knowing weather the women’s perspective is representative of Christians. Christians who lived under subjugation has different perspective than those who did not but he correctly points out that people of other religions look at this verse from their own perspective. People who belong to a particular religion will always believe that their religion is the best and absolute word of God.

Writer correctly points out that people are passively intolerant towards other religions but only minority turns violent.

At least once a year either a Mormon or a Jehovah’s Witness knock at my door with an invitation to Christianity. My discussion with them only revolves around creation. I am willing some how accept the six days of creation it’s the seventh day that puzzles me. I would like to know what precisely God did on the seventh day. Did he say “boy six days of non stop work has tired me” then made his bed and went to sleep? Did he setup the alarm or had a wake up call from an angle? They politely ask me to come to the church for expiation and I politely refuse.