1 Question for PTI - Imran trash talks IMF & World Bank but his budget suggests otherwise
- Thread starter AsifAmeer
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- asad umer economy imran khan pti
آپ کا ملی جذبہ اور اپنے ہم وطنوں پے اعتماد قابل ستائش ہے پر جس ملک کی ساری معیشت کا کل حجم ہی صرف ٢١٠ بلین ڈالر ہے اور جہاں عوام کی اکثریت سخت کسمپرسی کی شکار ہیں وہاں آپ ١٠ بلین ڈالر کہاں سے لائیں گے؟
Mansoor Khan
Senator (1k+ posts)
Ustadje I can assure you that [MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION] is not a noora guy. he is an economy expert. so his points are valid. I cant understand even a single word of it thats why i just watch all the reasoning and logics in a very boring way and go on. so he is a fair guy but a crack expert. he is very very straight
I strnogly beleive...Mr. Imran Khan will bring the positive change with in Pakistan and out of the border as well for the betterment of Pakistani ppls.
Perhaps may be not 100% , but 75% for sure.........for the betterment for all of us............
Or you guys wants to give another 5 years to our current ruling all political parties and opposition. I encourage all the pakistanies who living abroad and with in Pakistan vote PTI and see the result, Other wise we all will pay the price and our future generation.......
Perhaps may be not 100% , but 75% for sure.........for the betterment for all of us............
Or you guys wants to give another 5 years to our current ruling all political parties and opposition. I encourage all the pakistanies who living abroad and with in Pakistan vote PTI and see the result, Other wise we all will pay the price and our future generation.......
Mansoor Khan
Senator (1k+ posts)
My request to all PTI supporters is that please for god sake. let them have a debate. [MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION] is a guy with knowledge in his field. so let him have a debate with guys who have knowhow of the subject. I would request you guys who dont have knowledge like me please sit aside and let them do it. no need to ruin a debate by just poking our noses uselessly. and [MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION] you know we are not too professional So your personal disliking for imran khan doesnt matter you know most of the time the boss who we work for isnt our favourite but we do work and work happily.
such bolo
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
@AsifAmeer
I am not an economic expert or even student. But i have a very simple question
what i know is that in musharraf govt's last 4-5 years there was no imf or world bank program in pakistan
we got all our payments rescheduled and said bye bye to imf
Isnt it true?
and as i googled just now and found that there was fiscal deficit of around 4-5 billion dollar at that time each year. Even in 2006-2007 deficit was more than 7 billion
Lets ignore the percentage to gdp
You just tell me
if the fiscal deficit was there then
how did musharraf govt managed that fiscal deficit?
If musharraf can then why not pti?
Solutions are there:
There are our freind countries
like saudi arab, china etc. and i was listening to asad umer
he said that if we will show to the world that we are geniun leadership with a good and honest team surely these countries would help us out
if freinds of pakistan and america can help us in our rainy days why not our real freindly countries?
Likewise there are other means as well, and the top most one is overseas pakistanis... As imran says that we must not under estimate them. As they have alone more wealth then the whole pakistan. So if you make them believe that present govt is not corrupt i hope pakistan will be flooded with foreign remittances
I am not an economic expert or even student. But i have a very simple question
what i know is that in musharraf govt's last 4-5 years there was no imf or world bank program in pakistan
we got all our payments rescheduled and said bye bye to imf
Isnt it true?
and as i googled just now and found that there was fiscal deficit of around 4-5 billion dollar at that time each year. Even in 2006-2007 deficit was more than 7 billion
Lets ignore the percentage to gdp
You just tell me
if the fiscal deficit was there then
how did musharraf govt managed that fiscal deficit?
If musharraf can then why not pti?
Solutions are there:
There are our freind countries
like saudi arab, china etc. and i was listening to asad umer
he said that if we will show to the world that we are geniun leadership with a good and honest team surely these countries would help us out
if freinds of pakistan and america can help us in our rainy days why not our real freindly countries?
Likewise there are other means as well, and the top most one is overseas pakistanis... As imran says that we must not under estimate them. As they have alone more wealth then the whole pakistan. So if you make them believe that present govt is not corrupt i hope pakistan will be flooded with foreign remittances
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Usama Mir Self Actualizer
Citizen
Dear, I appreciate your critical thinking (clap) and i want all other PTI supporters to follow the ethics of debate;) Now the @AsifMeer , Our Problem is not from where they are going to fill the deficit because any nation can take loan from IMF and WB otherwise there purpose would be dead the POINT is how you can judge them by what the said that they would be independent from WB and IMF ??? I request you to not to think like an IDEALIST. They(PTI Economic Team) meant by this that , they wouldn't be as mush dependent as status quo today and why you picked that point ?? why you didn't go for what they said about fall of deficit 4.5% of GDP form 8.4 % GDP . I think that is very challenging too because you should have in your mind the debts that government took under their regime. Think from a flexible perspective as compared to rigid and wise person speaks when he has something to say and a fool speaks when wants to say something :)
shahzadkokan
Voter (50+ posts)
a simple answer to this zzzzzzz where there is will there is a way....
AsifShiraz
New Member
Asif,
It would have been more appropriate for you to state your doctrinal difference of opinion, instead of trying to attract attention to that difference of opinion by calling Imran a liar merely for its "shock value" as you have admitted.
This is especially true because you were extrapolating and making assumptions on whether the deficit will be met by an IMF loan or not. Even if he does take an IMF loan, it is not inconsistent with his claim to free Pakistan of IMF slavery. The former could be a tactical step, while the later, a long term strategy.
The Prophet (sm) told Muslims that they will visit the Kaaba. But they came back without doing it. At the time it was declared as the intention, it was the intention. When situation on ground changed, the decision was postponed for 1 year. Some opportunist at that time also must have come in to say.. oh this was a lie.... but the it is the leader's decision to see what is most appropriate. Tactically, it made sense for the Prophet (sm) to withdraw without Hajj.. so they did.
We are in a situation where we are heavily reliant external capital injection. It cannot be brought to an abrupt end, just like the prohibition of Wine did not bring its usage to an abrupt end. It was declared that is it bad. Eventually, when people were at a stage to stop using it, it was declared prohibited.
We have declared our intention to free ourselves from debt and IMF. We will get rid of the IMF as soon as possible. We will get rid of all debt-dependence as soon as possible. This does not mean it will be done in 1 budget cycle. This does not mean that in those budget cycles in which we are unable to do that, we will necessarily "beg the IMF", which is again a pure assumption made on your part.
The best course of action was to raise this question to your own friend Akbar, who is both an Austrian and a PTI supporter. The second course of action was to approach Dr. Asad or the Economics team, whom you know personally. The last course of action was to come decrease this debate from an intellectual level and bring it down to politics.... at which point bring it out in the gallery and start calling IK as a liar....
IK is not infallible. But criticize where criticism is due. He has not lied in this matter. Besides... lying in Islam is based on intention... you are forgetting that wonderful verse... "These people say that you are the Prophet of Allah, Allah declares that you are indeed a Prophet of Allah... and Allah discloses that these people are lying...."
Anyways... I'm a great fan of your economic analysis and opinions.... You are true gem of a person... As honest and upright as most Austrians are... So let us maintain that image :-)
It would have been more appropriate for you to state your doctrinal difference of opinion, instead of trying to attract attention to that difference of opinion by calling Imran a liar merely for its "shock value" as you have admitted.
This is especially true because you were extrapolating and making assumptions on whether the deficit will be met by an IMF loan or not. Even if he does take an IMF loan, it is not inconsistent with his claim to free Pakistan of IMF slavery. The former could be a tactical step, while the later, a long term strategy.
The Prophet (sm) told Muslims that they will visit the Kaaba. But they came back without doing it. At the time it was declared as the intention, it was the intention. When situation on ground changed, the decision was postponed for 1 year. Some opportunist at that time also must have come in to say.. oh this was a lie.... but the it is the leader's decision to see what is most appropriate. Tactically, it made sense for the Prophet (sm) to withdraw without Hajj.. so they did.
We are in a situation where we are heavily reliant external capital injection. It cannot be brought to an abrupt end, just like the prohibition of Wine did not bring its usage to an abrupt end. It was declared that is it bad. Eventually, when people were at a stage to stop using it, it was declared prohibited.
We have declared our intention to free ourselves from debt and IMF. We will get rid of the IMF as soon as possible. We will get rid of all debt-dependence as soon as possible. This does not mean it will be done in 1 budget cycle. This does not mean that in those budget cycles in which we are unable to do that, we will necessarily "beg the IMF", which is again a pure assumption made on your part.
The best course of action was to raise this question to your own friend Akbar, who is both an Austrian and a PTI supporter. The second course of action was to approach Dr. Asad or the Economics team, whom you know personally. The last course of action was to come decrease this debate from an intellectual level and bring it down to politics.... at which point bring it out in the gallery and start calling IK as a liar....
IK is not infallible. But criticize where criticism is due. He has not lied in this matter. Besides... lying in Islam is based on intention... you are forgetting that wonderful verse... "These people say that you are the Prophet of Allah, Allah declares that you are indeed a Prophet of Allah... and Allah discloses that these people are lying...."
Anyways... I'm a great fan of your economic analysis and opinions.... You are true gem of a person... As honest and upright as most Austrians are... So let us maintain that image :-)
I have read many of your earlier posts and I really appreciate your knowledge of macro economics. Most of us on this forum do not are economic laymen so I doubt that we will be able to answer your question adequately. It is a valid question and should be raised to the right forum. However, you have reached a conclusion on your own assumption without giving any benefit of doubt to the team that maybe they actually might have an alternate plan. From my rudimentary knowledge, it is perfectly normal for economies to have a deficit. That is how you normally leverage your growth and it keeps the economy alive. Most countries in the world work on a deficit budget. The World Bank, IMF etc. are not the only ways you can finance that deficit. Today the government is funding its deficit by internal and external financing as well as money printing. Apart from internal financing, Asad Umar and Jahangir Tareen did mention that they will explore other sources of funding from the middle east and the far east. It is going to be a challenge no doubt to sell a positive economic outlook to potential investors. However, the team was confident that they could do so.
I agree it is not easy to immediately stop all funding from IMF and World Bank. But it is very important to contain them to a level where these bodies are not able to dictate their terms to us. In any case, like all other initiatives in the plan this will also need to be phased out. You cant expect things to change by the switch of a button. I think you were unfair to say IK was lying. He was giving the general direction his party wants to take and that still holds true.
I agree it is not easy to immediately stop all funding from IMF and World Bank. But it is very important to contain them to a level where these bodies are not able to dictate their terms to us. In any case, like all other initiatives in the plan this will also need to be phased out. You cant expect things to change by the switch of a button. I think you were unfair to say IK was lying. He was giving the general direction his party wants to take and that still holds true.
anjumkamali
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/45052795/26183528-Pakistan-s-Economy-and-the-Role-of-IMF-and-World-Bank
answer to your question is written in the last page of the link.
In addition we need IMF because of imbalance in international trade. Most of our foreign currency is taken out of country by illegal means. This is mainly done by corrupt mafia and status quo. With Imran in power corruption will fall and illegal transfer of Foreign currency is stopped than the deficit will be covered from internal loans. Another thing, you can't climb a mountain in one step. Every thing will improve gradually even your perception change will take time. Top level corruption can be eliminated immediately by changing corrupt person with an honest professional.
For all PTI supporters please don't blame a person raising genuine question, if you don't know please consult with some professional and reply as advised.
For Asif Ameer, no body is perfect. We tried PPP in 1970's, PML(N) & PPP in 1990's and also in 2008. My personal view is that if results are not good that means people we selected are unable to resolve the isssues. Therefore, in my opinion lets tray Imran Khan once. If he fail (I am sure he will not) than instead of giving him chance again we should look for a new leader. Because democracy works when we change the failed person with new one. If we continue with the old person than result will remains the same.
answer to your question is written in the last page of the link.
In addition we need IMF because of imbalance in international trade. Most of our foreign currency is taken out of country by illegal means. This is mainly done by corrupt mafia and status quo. With Imran in power corruption will fall and illegal transfer of Foreign currency is stopped than the deficit will be covered from internal loans. Another thing, you can't climb a mountain in one step. Every thing will improve gradually even your perception change will take time. Top level corruption can be eliminated immediately by changing corrupt person with an honest professional.
For all PTI supporters please don't blame a person raising genuine question, if you don't know please consult with some professional and reply as advised.
For Asif Ameer, no body is perfect. We tried PPP in 1970's, PML(N) & PPP in 1990's and also in 2008. My personal view is that if results are not good that means people we selected are unable to resolve the isssues. Therefore, in my opinion lets tray Imran Khan once. If he fail (I am sure he will not) than instead of giving him chance again we should look for a new leader. Because democracy works when we change the failed person with new one. If we continue with the old person than result will remains the same.
Rashid Sophia Butt
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
It is good to see that people are taking interest in PTI economic policy, that shows that nation is interested PTI to come in power. I am not an expert but one thing I know is he will deliver what IK says (Inshallah). If you have a valid question than I suggest you to get in touch with someone from PTI who is an expert and I am 100% sure they should be able to answer your question/doubts in professional manner. I do not see any point you posting it on forms. Again I am happy that people are criticising PTI economic policy. Thanks for sharing.
Was the picture necessary to make your point ... it is a malicious post and you know it all too well.
Your analysis is as shallow as the original claims ... The source of debt is pretty important ... targeted taxation of the source of debt is always on the table ... monetary instruments can be exploited .... a country can do a lot. Once you realize that the rules can be changed as you like, anything is possible .... USA might fear for destroying investor confidence ... in Pakistan nobody has confidence :P ... so I wouldn't worry if I were you.
Your analysis is as shallow as the original claims ... The source of debt is pretty important ... targeted taxation of the source of debt is always on the table ... monetary instruments can be exploited .... a country can do a lot. Once you realize that the rules can be changed as you like, anything is possible .... USA might fear for destroying investor confidence ... in Pakistan nobody has confidence :P ... so I wouldn't worry if I were you.
Bangash
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
سب سے بڑا مسلہ دہشت گردی اور یہ سارا فساد ہے جس کی وجہے سے سارے کاروبار تباہ ہوگئے ہیں اور اخراجات بھی کئی گنا زیادہ ہو رہی ہیں- اس مسلے کا خاتمہ صرف خود مختاری اور اس جنگ سے نکلنے سے ہوتا ہے لیکن اس صورت میں جب دھوکہ نہ ہو عوام کے ساتھ جیسے سلالہ چک پوسٹ کے حملے کے بعد ہم کسی حد تک نیوٹرل تو تھے لیکن مکمل طور پر نہیں عوام کا شک موجود تھا اور وہ شک درست بھی تھا کہ حکومت منافق ہے کچھ دنوں میں پھر سے امریکا کا ساتھ دیگی صرف اپنے جیبوں کو بھرنے کے لئے- ہمارے فوجیوں کی شہادت ان کے لئے کوئی اہمیت نہیں رکھتی تھی صرف ڈرامے کررہے تھے حکومت مکمل امریکی طرفداری کررہا تھا پاکستانی افواج اور عدالتوں کی مخالفت کررہے تھے ایسی صورت میں کچھ بہتری نامکن ہے-اگر عمران خان کی طرح ایماندار شخص حکومت کی لیڈنگ کرتا ہو تو عوام مکمل طور پر حکومت اور افواج کی حمایت کرینگے دہشت گردی ختم ہوگی عوام خود اپنے ملک کی حفاظت کرینگیں اس کے علاوہ عوام برداشت بھی بہت کچھ کرسکتی ہے کیونکہ خودمختاری، آزادی انسانی ذہن کو پستی سے نکالتا ہے اور بلندیوں اور مقابلے کی طرف لے جاتا ہے- ١٩٩٨ اٹمی دھماکھوں کے لئے عوام پہلے سے تیار نہیں تھے-بہت سے لوگ نوز کی حکومت پر اعتماد بھی نہیں کرتے تھے لیکن اس وقت بھی کتنے لوگوں نے حکومت کی مدد کی تھی میں نے بھی اپنا ایک گھرفارن میں فرخت کرکے ساری رقم دی تھی اسی طرح میرے کزن نے پچاس ہزار ڈالر حکومت کو دیے تھے- یہ تو کچھ بھی نہیں جو پیسے تجارت سے پاکستان اتے ہیں وہ ملین ڈالروں میں ہوتے ہیں- اگر باہر سے پابندیاں لگ جائے تو لوگ دوسرے راستے ڈھونڈتے ہیں جو کہ ہزروں ہیں اپنے ملک فارن کرنسی لانے کے اس کو دنیا کی کوئی طاقت کنٹرول نہیں کرسکتی بینکوں سے اتنی فارن کرنسی پاکستان نہیں جاتی جتنی دوسری سورتوں میں جاتی ہے-ایسی طرح خراب حالات میں یہی پیسے انہی رستوں سے باہر بھی نکلتی ہے- ہر ایک محفل میں یہی بات ہوتی ہے کہ کس طرح اپنے افواج اور حکومت اور ملک کی مدد کی جائے ایسا نظر اتا ہے جیسے عید کی یا شادی بیاہ کی تیاریاں ہورہی ہوں - آج کی طرح لوگ ایک دوسرے سے ڈرتے نہیں بلکہ ایک دوسرے کی مدد کرتے ہیں صرف اس وجہے سے کہ ہم وطن ہیں- اسی لئے کہتے ہیں کہ دنیا امید پر قائم ہے جب دل مطمئن ہو تو امید ہی سب کچھ انسان کو فراہم کرتا ہے نہ امیدی انسان کو پستیوں کی طرف دکھیلتی ہے - امید اعتماد اور یقین سے پیدہ ہوتا ہے اور اعتماد اور یقین آپس میں ایک باہمی ایک نظریے اور ایک جیسی فکر سے پیدہ ہوتا ہے آپس میں مخالفت اور شک سے تباہ ہوتا ہے
I don't understand why people get jealous of someone who is much above them in stature. Some people have personal grudges against IK but they are not worth the dust under his feet for they have done nothing for Pakistan. I don't understand this nonsense behaviour.
[QUOTE=KK YASIR;1010040]Imran Khan ne Aik Heera Select kia aur aaj app keh rahey hain k Mujhy Heera pasand hai unsey select kerne wala nahin... How Strange ..... just waite abhii IK esey Hazaroon Diamond isi Pak Sar Zameen se Chun Chun ker Nikaley ga .. InshaAllah[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=KK YASIR;1010040]Imran Khan ne Aik Heera Select kia aur aaj app keh rahey hain k Mujhy Heera pasand hai unsey select kerne wala nahin... How Strange ..... just waite abhii IK esey Hazaroon Diamond isi Pak Sar Zameen se Chun Chun ker Nikaley ga .. InshaAllah[/QUOTE]
BuTurabi
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
How much did you get paid from Noora league . . . . . :lol: :lol:
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;)
Amjad Khan Afridi
New Member
Brother as you said that 8.4% fiscal deficits will be brought down to 4.5% , which is not difficult at all and even this deficit can be deminiahed by using a simple monetory policy. As these days a small percentage of people are paying tax even Noora league and Zardari are not paying at all so if tax has been taken from such people the deficit will be finished by itself.if you know what is is fiscal policy then you may understand what i mean. Friends for those who have no idea about fisca deficit is that its defined as the difference between taxation and government expenditure. So if Noora pay 5000 rupees in tax and deficit is still 8.4% then imagine if he pay full tax as well as the other businesses too then think about it. It will be Billions . By the way i have seen Nooras twin towers in Ilferd by myself. you can check it on google earth.You can identify them as they are the longest towers in Ilferd. Lol
