عمران خان پاکستان ٹوٹنے کے دن بنگلادیش کو مبارک باد دہے رہے تھے، سراج الحق

[Awan S]

Sohail Sahib
Today's Bangladesh is way better 1971's east Pakistan. Today's Pakistan is way behind the 1971's west Pakistan. During 1970s election there was no separatist movement and Awami League won 160 seats out of 300. If GHQ of that time had decided to let Awami League form government, Pakistan will be still united. GHQ can't make such decisions alone they need ZAB kind of tout politicians.
Few Dates
Elections 1970: December 07, 1970
Mukti Bahini Movement: March 1971
This means before March 1971 there was no movement to separate country.
Fall of Dhaka: December 16, 1971
In a year and a week after country was divided after election
ZAB Became Civil Martial Law Administrator: December 20, 1971
Just after 4 days of Fall of Dhaka Bhutto became Civil Martial Law Administrator.
For me the winner of this conflict was ZAB who can never become a national politician if Pakistan was united.

Why Bangladesh is better than us now? We have fought two big wars and we are battle ground of big powers. In both wars, Afghanistan's other neighbours remained neutral and unaffected but we chose to be part of wars. In both occasions army put us in fire by joining hands with USA. Khan says that we fought other people's war when should have avoided. There is another reason that Bangladesh has a strong democracy now without army interference. You guys will understand this when generals will use Khan and throw him away bringing a new puppet in next elections.

 

[Okara]

Why Bangladesh is better than us now? We have fought two big wars and we are battle ground of big powers. In both wars, Afghanistan's other neighbours remained neutral and unaffected but we chose to be part of wars. In both occasions army put us in fire by joining hands with USA. Khan says that we fought other people's war when should have avoided. There is another reason that Bangladesh has a strong democracy now without army interference. You guys will understand this when generals will use Khan and throw him away bringing a new puppet in next elections.

Simple question:
Can Army rule without corrupt politicians?
Indeed our military Generals always put Pakistan in danger for their own benefits but are nothing without corrupt politicians.
During 60s, Pakistan was leading in Asia but then ZAB plotted and 1965 war took place. This 1965 war was the start when we start sliding down. Gen Ayoub was one of the best ruler we saw but keep in mind if he hadn't brought ZAB in his proximity, Pakistan might be better today. Unfortunately, can't say good for Zia or Musharraf as both were enemies of Pakistan or at least stupid people.

 

[باس از باس]

نہی دیتے مبارک باد۔۔۔ کیا کریں پھر ایٹم بم گرا دیں بنگلہ دیش پہ۔۔۔؟؟؟

جب تک یہ ساری مساجد اور مدرسے حکومت اپنی تحویل میں نہی لیتی یہ ملک یہاں ہی رکا رہے گا

 

[surfer]

Why Bangladesh is better than us now? We have fought two big wars and we are battle ground of big powers. In both wars, Afghanistan's other neighbours remained neutral and unaffected but we chose to be part of wars. In both occasions army put us in fire by joining hands with USA. Khan says that we fought other people's war when should have avoided. There is another reason that Bangladesh has a strong democracy now without army interference. You guys will understand this when generals will use Khan and throw him away bringing a new puppet in next elections.

Interesting debate and I agree with many of your points, however not sure about the strong democracy bit. Just read this a few days ago

Weiterleitungshinweis

www.google.com

 

[Islamabadi1]

All NON PDM parties (PSP...PAT...PMLQ...GDA....Brabri party)...should make an alliance and offer a 4th front to the electorate....patriots from PTI should also create a forward block and join it NOW so that enough time can be had convincing people so we can get rid of these jokers in power

 

[stargazer]

This from the man who belongs to a political party that was not in favor of Pakitan being carved out for the Muslims of Hindustan.
JI was opposed to ZAB and formed an alliance of 9 sitaras, protested against the ISM that Bhutto was trying to bring and YET they are now supporters of the Buttoism! Astaghfirullah.
JI was opposed to Gillani as a senator, but as leader of the opposition is halal?
Where did PMIK congratulate Bangladesh? Is this a lie by you Siraj ul HAQ sahib or he said it in your ears only?
Even if PMIK were to congratulate BD how would that be wrong when you are sitting happily with the progeny of the man who is most blamed for seperation? ZAB.

 

[stargazer]

It is very unfortunate that old 80 or 90 year old Bangladeshi JI leaders were hanged by current Hasina Wajid government. Mujeeb's daughter is pro-India and ant-Pakistan. JI leaders were against separation of Bangladesh into a separate country and want to live with Pakistan at that time back in 1971. We cannot do much except feeling sorry or sad as it is a separate independent country and it is their internal matter.
I think Bhutto was less evil than army at that time. It was marshal law, a election was held under army and Awani League of Mujeeb got 180 seats in total whereas Bhutto's PPP got only 80. It was army's responsibility to transfer power to Mujeeb and let the political process run smoothly after marshal law. Army instead listened to Bhuto and started killing operation in East Pakistan. Bhutto was wrong but he was not in power, army was in power and instead of handing power to winning party they started killing people in East Pakistan. We as a nation are culprit and we should be ashamed what we have done with Bangla people at that time.

Will you please provide some authentic references for your claims of atrocities by the Army on the orders of Bhutto? You have made some tall sweeping claims.
Also please do tell us what was Mujeeb doing in cahoots with the Indians and why? What should have been the response of the uniformed services to that threat?
Also, enlighten us about what who was killing Biharis and those from West Pakistan and why thousands had to flee from there if this was only a political struggle?

 

[ranaji]

یہ خر بچہ جماعت اسلامی کی مریم نواز شریف ہے جس نے بہت محنت کی جی آ ئی کو ۔۔۔ لگوانے میں
اور دن رات محنت کرکے جماعت کو ل۔۔۔ لگوا دیا یہ گدھا اور منافق ترچھی ٹوپی والا جوکر بہت محنت کر رہا ہے جماعت اسلامی کو پوری طرح تباہ و برباد کرنے میں

 

[Awan S]

Simple question:
Can Army rule without corrupt politicians?
Indeed our military Generals always put Pakistan in danger for their own benefits but are nothing without corrupt politicians.
During 60s, Pakistan was leading in Asia but then ZAB plotted and 1965 war took place. This 1965 war was the start when we start sliding down. Gen Ayoub was one of the best ruler we saw but keep in mind if he hadn't brought ZAB in his proximity, Pakistan might be better today. Unfortunately, can't say good for Zia or Musharraf as both were enemies of Pakistan or at least stupid people.

پ کو جواب دینے سے پہلے آگے کے الیکشن دیکھتے ہیں - انیس سو ستتر کے الیکشن میں پیپلز پارٹی اکیلی ایک سو پچپن اور باقی تمام پارٹیاں مل کر اکسٹھ - ہمیشہ کی طرح ہارنے والی پارٹیوں نے دھاندلی کا نعرہ لگایا اور فوج ان کے ساتھ کھڑی ہو گئی اور بھد میں مارشل لاء لگا دیا -یہاں پیپلز پارٹی پر کرپشن کا کوئی الزام نہیں تھا -گیارہ سال مارشل لاء رہا - پھر انیس سو نوے میں پہلے اسحٰق ڈار سے بے نظیر کی حکومت ختم کرائی اور پھر آئی جے آئی بنائی تا کہ پیپلز پارٹی کی حکومت نہ بنے - نواز شریف اس کے بینی فشری تھے - اس کے بھد نواز کی دو تہائی اکثریت کی حکومت مشرف نے ختم کی - ایک بات اس تمام قصے میں مشترک ہے بھٹو اور نواز کو پہلے خود دوسروں سے زیادتی کر کے بنایا - بھٹو کو جب وزیر اعظم بنایا تو عوامی لیگ سے زیادتی کی پھر بھٹو سے زیادتی کر کے مارشل لاء لگایا - نوے میں پی پی سے زیادتی کر کے آئی جے آئی کو جتایا اور پھر اسی نواز کی دو تہائی اکثریت کی حکومت کو ختم کیا - ہمیشہ اپنا مفاد دیکھا ملک کا نہیں - ایک ہی آدمی جب مضبوط اور عوامی لیڈر ہو گیا تو اسے ہٹا کر ایک اور موہرہ لے آئے - اگر کرپشن مسلہ ہوتا تو پانچ سال زرداری کی کرپٹ ترین حکومت کو برداشت نہ کرتے اور زرداری حکومت کو بھی اسی طرح چلتا کیا جا سکتا تھا مگر زرداری فوج کا ہمنوا تھا اور یار تھا اس کا تو ایک ہی اصول ہے خود بھی کھاؤ اور سب کو کھلاؤ لہذا اس بات کو رہنے دیں کہ فوج کرپشن کی وجہ سے آتی ہے -

انیس سو پینسٹھ کی جنگ بھٹو کے کھاتے کیوں ڈال رہے ہیں یہ ایوب خان کا مارشل لاء تھا بھٹو کی حکومت نہیں تھی - فوج کو امریکہ سے جدید اسلحہ ملا اور انہوں نے آپریشن جبرالٹر کے نام پر کشمیر سائیڈ سے انڈیا پر حملہ کر دیا - انڈیا نے غصے میں آ کر لاہور سے جنگ چھیڑ دی - ذرا تاریخ پڑھ لیں ہر جگہ ہمارا ہی قصور ہے اور نتیجے کے طور پر ملک کمزور ہوا - ساٹھ کی دہائی میں ہم بہت مظبوط تھے مگر ایوب ، ضیاء اور مشرف کی تین جنگوں نے ملک کو ایک تباہ حال افریقی ملک بنا دیا -

 

[Awan S]

Will you please provide some authentic references for your claims of atrocities by the Army on the orders of Bhutto? You have made some tall sweeping claims.
Also please do tell us what was Mujeeb doing in cahoots with the Indians and why? What should have been the response of the uniformed services to that threat?
Also, enlighten us about what who was killing Biharis and those from West Pakistan and why thousands had to flee from there if this was only a political struggle?

What reference you want? Was not it a marshal law during 71 war and election in 70? Is it not true that Awami League got majority and have the right to form government? Was not it army's job to hand over power to Mujeeb? Mujeeb joined hands with India later when he was not given power. We are talking about 71 war and Biharis issue is separate.

 

[Tyrion Lannister]

O ja chacha koi general store khool kithe kyn time zaya kr rya sada

 

[Awan S]

Interesting debate and I agree with many of your points, however not sure about the strong democracy bit. Just read this a few days ago

Weiterleitungshinweis

www.google.com

Yes their democracy can be questioned but at least they don't have a marshal Law for decades. Hussein Muhammad Irshad imposed marshal law in 1982 and later on they put him in jail. In a TV talk show, a Bangladeshi journalist said that we have progressed because we got rid of our Generals. A lesson to learn.

 

[surfer]

Yes their democracy can be questioned but at least they don't have a marshal Law for decades. Hussein Muhammad Irshad imposed marshal law in 1982 and later on they put him in jail. In a TV talk show, a Bangladeshi journalist said that we have progressed because we got rid of our Generals. A lesson to learn.

Got “rid” of them by bringing them into the tent...

Weiterleitungshinweis

www.google.com

edit : sorry article is behind a paywall - put this in google:

Bangladesh army funded to forget its role as neutral referee​

I have a bangldeshi friend from when I was working in Saudi years ago. He went back to Dhaka and while he is happy with economic progress he says it is a totally non democratic regime backed by the army

 

[stargazer]

What reference you want? Was not it a marshal law during 71 war and election in 70? Is it not true that Awami League got majority and have the right to form government? Was not it army's job to hand over power to Mujeeb? Mujeeb joined hands with India later when he was not given power. We are talking about 71 war and Biharis issue is separate.

One should be able to provide some evidence instead of hearsay.
Otherwise what you are saying is just venting, without any proof and no one should believe your statements.
Everything is connected, just because you have an ax to grind or tunnel vision does not mean others don't see the whole picture.
Believe whatever you want to but be sure you will be questioned when you try to spread your wishes as evidence.

 

[stargazer]

پ کو جواب دینے سے پہلے آگے کے الیکشن دیکھتے ہیں - انیس سو ستتر کے الیکشن میں پیپلز پارٹی اکیلی ایک سو پچپن اور باقی تمام پارٹیاں مل کر اکسٹھ - ہمیشہ کی طرح ہارنے والی پارٹیوں نے دھاندلی کا نعرہ لگایا اور فوج ان کے ساتھ کھڑی ہو گئی اور بھد میں مارشل لاء لگا دیا -یہاں پیپلز پارٹی پر کرپشن کا کوئی الزام نہیں تھا -گیارہ سال مارشل لاء رہا - پھر انیس سو نوے میں پہلے اسحٰق ڈار سے بے نظیر کی حکومت ختم کرائی اور پھر آئی جے آئی بنائی تا کہ پیپلز پارٹی کی حکومت نہ بنے - نواز شریف اس کے بینی فشری تھے - اس کے بھد نواز کی دو تہائی اکثریت کی حکومت مشرف نے ختم کی - ایک بات اس تمام قصے میں مشترک ہے بھٹو اور نواز کو پہلے خود دوسروں سے زیادتی کر کے بنایا - بھٹو کو جب وزیر اعظم بنایا تو عوامی لیگ سے زیادتی کی پھر بھٹو سے زیادتی کر کے مارشل لاء لگایا - نوے میں پی پی سے زیادتی کر کے آئی جے آئی کو جتایا اور پھر اسی نواز کی دو تہائی اکثریت کی حکومت کو ختم کیا - ہمیشہ اپنا مفاد دیکھا ملک کا نہیں - ایک ہی آدمی جب مضبوط اور عوامی لیڈر ہو گیا تو اسے ہٹا کر ایک اور موہرہ لے آئے - اگر کرپشن مسلہ ہوتا تو پانچ سال زرداری کی کرپٹ ترین حکومت کو برداشت نہ کرتے اور زرداری حکومت کو بھی اسی طرح چلتا کیا جا سکتا تھا مگر زرداری فوج کا ہمنوا تھا اور یار تھا اس کا تو ایک ہی اصول ہے خود بھی کھاؤ اور سب کو کھلاؤ لہذا اس بات کو رہنے دیں کہ فوج کرپشن کی وجہ سے آتی ہے -

انیس سو پینسٹھ کی جنگ بھٹو کے کھاتے کیوں ڈال رہے ہیں یہ ایوب خان کا مارشل لاء تھا بھٹو کی حکومت نہیں تھی - فوج کو امریکہ سے جدید اسلحہ ملا اور انہوں نے آپریشن جبرالٹر کے نام پر کشمیر سائیڈ سے انڈیا پر حملہ کر دیا - انڈیا نے غصے میں آ کر لاہور سے جنگ چھیڑ دی - ذرا تاریخ پڑھ لیں ہر جگہ ہمارا ہی قصور ہے اور نتیجے کے طور پر ملک کمزور ہوا - ساٹھ کی دہائی میں ہم بہت مظبوط تھے مگر ایوب ، ضیاء اور مشرف کی تین جنگوں نے ملک کو ایک تباہ حال افریقی ملک بنا دیا -

Anyone can weave a story but you have nothing to back it up. Waste of precious time it is.

 

[ranaji]

او کھوتی دیا پترا
انکا جو یوم بنگال دیش ہے اسی پر مبارک باد دینی ہے یا تیرے باپ کی شادی والے دن کی ؟
تیرے باپ نے تیری پیدائشی سے نو مہینے پہلے کنڈوم استعمال کر لیا ہوتا تو آج جماعت اسلامی کی اتنی تباہی بربادی نہ ہوئی ہوتی جو تیرے جیسے خر بچے نے جماعت کی تباہی اور بربادی کی

 

[Okara]

پ کو جواب دینے سے پہلے آگے کے الیکشن دیکھتے ہیں - انیس سو ستتر کے الیکشن میں پیپلز پارٹی اکیلی ایک سو پچپن اور باقی تمام پارٹیاں مل کر اکسٹھ - ہمیشہ کی طرح ہارنے والی پارٹیوں نے دھاندلی کا نعرہ لگایا اور فوج ان کے ساتھ کھڑی ہو گئی اور بھد میں مارشل لاء لگا دیا -یہاں پیپلز پارٹی پر کرپشن کا کوئی الزام نہیں تھا -گیارہ سال مارشل لاء رہا - پھر انیس سو نوے میں پہلے اسحٰق ڈار سے بے نظیر کی حکومت ختم کرائی اور پھر آئی جے آئی بنائی تا کہ پیپلز پارٹی کی حکومت نہ بنے - نواز شریف اس کے بینی فشری تھے - اس کے بھد نواز کی دو تہائی اکثریت کی حکومت مشرف نے ختم کی - ایک بات اس تمام قصے میں مشترک ہے بھٹو اور نواز کو پہلے خود دوسروں سے زیادتی کر کے بنایا - بھٹو کو جب وزیر اعظم بنایا تو عوامی لیگ سے زیادتی کی پھر بھٹو سے زیادتی کر کے مارشل لاء لگایا - نوے میں پی پی سے زیادتی کر کے آئی جے آئی کو جتایا اور پھر اسی نواز کی دو تہائی اکثریت کی حکومت کو ختم کیا - ہمیشہ اپنا مفاد دیکھا ملک کا نہیں - ایک ہی آدمی جب مضبوط اور عوامی لیڈر ہو گیا تو اسے ہٹا کر ایک اور موہرہ لے آئے - اگر کرپشن مسلہ ہوتا تو پانچ سال زرداری کی کرپٹ ترین حکومت کو برداشت نہ کرتے اور زرداری حکومت کو بھی اسی طرح چلتا کیا جا سکتا تھا مگر زرداری فوج کا ہمنوا تھا اور یار تھا اس کا تو ایک ہی اصول ہے خود بھی کھاؤ اور سب کو کھلاؤ لہذا اس بات کو رہنے دیں کہ فوج کرپشن کی وجہ سے آتی ہے -

انیس سو پینسٹھ کی جنگ بھٹو کے کھاتے کیوں ڈال رہے ہیں یہ ایوب خان کا مارشل لاء تھا بھٹو کی حکومت نہیں تھی - فوج کو امریکہ سے جدید اسلحہ ملا اور انہوں نے آپریشن جبرالٹر کے نام پر کشمیر سائیڈ سے انڈیا پر حملہ کر دیا - انڈیا نے غصے میں آ کر لاہور سے جنگ چھیڑ دی - ذرا تاریخ پڑھ لیں ہر جگہ ہمارا ہی قصور ہے اور نتیجے کے طور پر ملک کمزور ہوا - ساٹھ کی دہائی میں ہم بہت مظبوط تھے مگر ایوب ، ضیاء اور مشرف کی تین جنگوں نے ملک کو ایک تباہ حال افریقی ملک بنا دیا -

Let's assume, if we make Karachi a separate province, how many seats MQM will won, it given free hand like before?
Let's assume, MQM won 100% seats from Karachi, can they form government in today's Sindh?
Why did Musharraf give NRO to criminals and brought them back to Pakistan?
If after 1970 election, ZAB sided with democratic forces like Awami League, can Yahya survive? But if ZAB had don this he would never become PM of Pakistan. So decided to side with Yahya to become PM of Pakistan.
Both PPP/PMLN are corrupt parties but yet, they sided with GHQ more than each other.

 

[MainBaghiHon]

Issay Khan Sb Nay Finance Minister Banaya Phir Senator Banaya Aur Akhir Main Harailo Katta Banaya.

 

[ranaji]

اور سور یہ اپنی کرتوتوں سے بن گیا

 

[Awan S]

Let's assume, if we make Karachi a separate province, how many seats MQM will won, it given free hand like before?
Let's assume, MQM won 100% seats from Karachi, can they form government in today's Sindh?
Why did Musharraf give NRO to criminals and brought them back to Pakistan?
If after 1970 election, ZAB sided with democratic forces like Awami League, can Yahya survive? But if ZAB had don this he would never become PM of Pakistan. So decided to side with Yahya to become PM of Pakistan.
Both PPP/PMLN are corrupt parties but yet, they sided with GHQ more than each other.

Parties who lose election always try to come to power somehow. It was not a question why Bhutto wanted power, the question is why Yahya listened him and send troops to East Pakistan for a killing operation? PDM want to throw Khan out of power and before that Khan wanted to throw Nawaz, it is always same story.

MQM is a regional party and cannot form government of their own therefore they were always in every coalition government. Nawaz in last government did not accept them in federal government but Khan brought them back.

Why Musharraf gave NRO to corrupt and criminals, that is my question too. PPP was main beneficiary in that NRO as it was between PPP and Musharf. Zardari was main beneficiary in this NRO and I don't remember if any PML(N) leader got benefit out of it. All corruption scandals were about PPP people that time. When Musharf let Nawaz go, there was no corruption case on him and rather it was a plane hijacking case.

If PPP and PML(N) are corrupt then people have the choice to throw them out of power. We have seen that we don't have proofs against them and the only way is to let their fate decided by people. PPP's corruption was exposed from 2008-2013 and people threw them out in 2013 elections. They got only two NA seats in three provinces. PML(N) should have faced the same fate by people if they were corrupt. What we have achieved by bringing Khan against the wishes of people? We repeated 1990 election by favouring one party. The loss we have got by bringing Khan cannot be covered in several years. Just imagine how much time we need to go back to 6% GDP and come back to 4% inflation rate.