حوا کی بیٹیاں اور مذہبی جنونی
- Thread starter Username
- Start date
- Status
khandimagi
Minister (2k+ posts)
آپ عقل سے پیدل ہیں، اتنی لمبی چوڑی تحریر لکھنے کی کیا ضرورت تھی،،آخری لائین میں جو سوال کیا تھا وہ پہلے ہی پوچھ لیتے
اسکا جواب یہ ہے کہ دنیا میں کہیں اسلامی حکومت قائم نہیں ہے ، اس لئے اسلامی فلاح اور سزا کے قانون بھی لاگو نہیں ہیں
اور حکم؟
مزید سوال جواب سے پہلے یہ بتائے کہ آپکا کس مذہب سے تعلق ہے، تاکہ اسے پیش نظر رکھ کر آپکے ذہن کے متعلق سمجھا جاسکے
Last edited:
Mind_Master
MPA (400+ posts)
I like many of your posts, however, please educate me about these passages from Quran? Where did in Quran its mentioned that anybody who commits sex should be "stoned" to death? You seems to forgot that you wrote only "Sex" and not Zana ?? right?
I agree, there is no stoning mention in Quran but... while interpreting those revelations related to extramarital relationships, Islamic scholars referenced Bible/Torah and implemented stoning as punishment for married persons if they are proven to be guilty.
You see, many of the earlier scholars were converts from either Christianity or Judaism(even if not still they'd them as a references) and so stoning came from Torah.
You see, many of the earlier scholars were converts from either Christianity or Judaism(even if not still they'd them as a references) and so stoning came from Torah.
Mind_Master
MPA (400+ posts)
Please name few of them who were converts from Christianity or Judaism?
By sex i meant Zina.
Thanks for liking my posts. I welcome you to be an active part of this discourse. Please correct me wherever i'm wrong and raise valid questions and relevant points.
Ibn Ishaq , a convert from Christianity who collected oral traditions that formed the basis of first important biography of the our prophet. Even Ibn Kathir referenced him while writing his commentary on Quran known as Tafsir Ibn Kathir. Bukhari took references from him.
Half of Arab's population before Islam were Christians.
Rest were Pagans, Jews, and Zoroastrians.
All of Yemen were Christains. Most of Iranians were Zoroastrians. As a matter of fact most of the prominent Islamic Scholars were Iranians like Imam Bukhari.
There's 6 Sahih Ahadith mentioning stoning for Adultery.
And in Quran ayah nr 2 of Sorah Noor talks about Flagellation (Koray) for Adultery which is equally brutal.
Authentic history tells that many people were stoned to death for adultery in Early Islam.
Thanks for the little correction that its in Ahadith and not Quran.
I rephrase my question "Why do we not stone to death people for the same crimes anymore as practiced by Prophet SAW?"
I wouldnt perhaps raise the question that if Stoning to death is not prescribed by Quran, then why Prophet SAW adhered to this punishment.
Last edited:
aamir_uetn
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
شری متھو پیاسا سوامی جی چنتا کی کونو آو شکتا نہیں ، ہر کسی کے ذہن میں سوالات ہوتے ہیں
And by the way even in presence of Prophet SAW, people converted first to Islam and then to Christianity.
Most prominent example is of brother in law of Prophet Mohammad SAW. His name was Abaidullah bin Jahsh and he was brother of Jainab bin Jahsh. He was part of the group that migrated to the land of Ashama ( Najashi). We think very highly of this group but he converted to Christianity.
In prophet's lifetime, only two events of stoning happened. That too, because of the persons who came to reveal that they committed a sin and they they wanted to be punished to avoid punishment in afterlife. There is no evidence that this kind of punishment is given on witness basis. I am not sure that why prophet let that happened as it's not prescribed but most of the Ahadith are made-up to build grounds for something more desirable to the rulers-of-that-time. Don't forget that we had many Fazlur Rahmans' who'd go any far to serve the rulers.
Basically, the criteria for HADD of adultery is almost impossible to fill in... 4 witnesses who witness the process is such an impossible act that one'd be able to do so only if someone is doing it in public or work for porn movies. There is no other scenario where'd people do it in public. So technically, it's can't be done.
Basically, the criteria for HADD of adultery is almost impossible to fill in... 4 witnesses who witness the process is such an impossible act that one'd be able to do so only if someone is doing it in public or work for porn movies. There is no other scenario where'd people do it in public. So technically, it's can't be done.
State the obvious!
You could surely not come up with anything else. That was the most general and predicted reaponse.
Its hard for you to admit that problem does not lie with the states, countries, and societies, but the problem lies in the very nature of these forms of punishment. Punishments have become irrelevant because of their inapplicability.
Your notion that there are no Islamic States in the World is an admission of failure, in itself. There's no True Islamic States because its impossible to establish one. States in 2016 cannot be formed with laws made 1500 years ago. So you are actually endorsing my statement about irrelevance of some of Islam. Are you getting me?
A second argument is that there has never been a True Islamic State in existence, since the death of the fourth Caliph and rule of Yazid. All schools of thought agree on that. None of the states ruled by Muslims after Khulafa e Rashidun, were truly Islamic but still they implemented Quranic and Sunnah Punishments. So the implementation of Islamic Punishments is not linked to the establishment of a true Islamic State.
Third argument is that in the recent times, Daesh and before Daesh, Taliban TRIED to implement Islamic Forms of Punishment but they couldn't survive. Whole world turned against them and they had to surrender and disappear.
There is a logical relationship between action and reaction. The action of inhumane and brutal punishments attracts reaction of the whole world. And this reaction is so serious and threatening that no cointries, no matter how islamic, can survive this reaction for long.
Matter in question is the relevance and irrelevance of Islamic Punishments within the framework of Nation State, Globalisation, and Reaction of Collective Conscious of Humanity.
Thanks for calling me "Aqal se Pedal"
I swear i dint mind.
There was a third case of a married man mentioned in Sahih Muslim and a fourth case of a woman who bore a child and she was spared until she had the child and then stoned to death by Khalid bin Walid on the orders of prophet. Its also a tradition of Sahih Muslim.
You mentioned Ibn Ishaq before. He is also of the same view
in reality most of the Islamic punishments were actually modified from the Roman punishments for the same crimes
- Status
