Islam is way and compelet code of life for Muslims.

[Vitamin_C]

Criticizing something doesn't mean hate. I criticize Islam with materials from its own scriptures. And I have never spread any hate against Muslims I always speak against Islamophobia. Your arguments have no ground to stand on so you start with personal attacks and labels with no reason.

Criticism does not equal hate or prejudice.

If I criticize my employee or my brother or wife if they do something wrong, does it mean I hate them?

Islamophobia is the fear, hatred of, or prejudice against the Islamic religion or Muslims generally, especially when seen as a geopolitical force or the source of terrorism.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Sex slavery is allowed in Islam and agreed upon by all major scholars, there is no debate on it.

Then you tried to weasel out of it and said: "What you call sex slaves are consorts ( once again a norm of those times) and were only taken from tribes or people who lost battles or war."

Those are your own words that Quran allows women to be taken from enemies as concubines, which basically means rape and abuse of prisoners of war. I am just amused by your mental gymnastics trying to defend torture, ie burning people for eternity and chopping their limbs of for theft. Then you are defending abuse of prisoners of war. Those things are not in Hadith, they are divine laws by creator of 100 billion galaxies.

Sources:
Chopping limbs for theft
As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.
Quran 5:38

Sex Slaves in Quran
"Certainly will the believers have succeeded:
They who are during their prayer humbly submissive
And they who turn away from ill speech
And they who are observant of zakah
And they who guard their private parts
Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they will not be blamed"
Quran 23:1-6

Indeed, the punishment of their Lord is not that from which one is safe -
And those who guard their private parts
Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they are not to be blamed -
Quran 70:28-30


Let the mental gymnastics begin.

Don't talk to me in "Roman Urdu" a few sentences are fine but it's a chore reading so much of it. Your arguments if I can call them that are nothing but red herrings and irrelevant to the topic at hand, you are mixing your threads here or just trying to move goal posts again without anyone noticing.

If Allah had willed he would have made us all Muslims of one nation, as mentioned in the Quran itself but he gave us free will in return in he put us through this test called life. But I digress that's not the topic at hand here.

To recap, just in case you have forgotten you claimed Islam to be something evil and cruel like ISIS, I agreed that what is being passed off as religion by the mullah clergy today is exactly what the ISIS and Taliban set out to do, even though it has nothing to actually do with Islam.

But you kept on insisting this is what Islam is all about and told me this is what history and biographies tell us, even after I told you I don't get or take my religion from books of history. Then you made up some false claims that ones limbs are to be amputated if one does not believe in Allah and also some totally irrelevant cut and paste references from the Quran.

Then you made up more stories about sex slaves and when everything was done and countered you started throwing out red herrings that oh Allah the almighty creator of the universe is afraid of some Bedouin sensitivities, come on man, seriously. I wasn't expecting this, even from you!

 

[Citizen X]

Criticizing something doesn't mean hate. I criticize Islam with materials from its own scriptures.

4 out of the 6 references you gave were non existent and one was totally made up. So you don't hate it, but you have no issues making up lies about it. Ok gotcha!

Like I said if the cap fits, wear it.

which basically means rape and abuse of prisoners of war.

Thats just your own interpretation of it so it fits into your narrative.

As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.
Quran 5:38

I have no issues with this. What do you want burglars and armed robbers to be given a parade and celebrated?

Except from their wives or those their right hands possess

And those who guard their private parts
Except from their wives or those their right hands possess,

I just explained to you this entire thing in my previous post, but since you are in no mood to listen to the others POV and adamant to carry on your own warped sex slave narrative that you have been fed by your Islamophobic sources and gurus then there is nothing I can do about it.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Thats not my interpretation. That's your mental gymnastics. When you attack another tribe and take all their women and have sex with them, that's rape & abuse of prisoners of war. There is no other way to look at it i'm sorry.

Thats just your own interpretation of it so it fits into your narrative.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Chopping limbs off? Then why are you against ISIS? This is exactly what they were doing and its barbaric.

I have no issues with this. What do you want burglars and armed robbers to be given a parade and celebrated?

 

[Vitamin_C]

Then you made up some false claims that ones limbs are to be amputated if one does not believe in Allah

I never said that, you are being dishonest and quoting me out of context.

Thats what I said you can go back and check my post:

God that allows slavery of other humans and allows torture, involuntary amputation of limbs and then if someone doesn't believe in him he threatens to torture them by burning them for eternity.

 

[Vitamin_C]

You made multiple contradictory statements so tell me which one you made up your mind on. First you said they are not slaves, they are concubines. Then you said they are not concubines because there is no sex involved. So are they concubines or are they not?

I quoted Quranic verse which clearly says whom your right hand possess. That phrases is mentioned 15 times in Quran to refer to slaves. So basically you can expose your private parts only to your wife and your slave girl (Quran makes a distinction between both).

Now show me some more ulti kalabazian.

I just explained to you this entire thing in my previous post, but since you are in no mood to listen to the others POV and adamant to carry on your own warped sex slave narrative that you have been fed by your Islamophobic sources and gurus then there is nothing I can do about it.

 

[Citizen X]

Thats not my interpretation.

Yes it is

That's your mental gymnastics.

It's called reasoning, you should try it sometimes without your phobic shades on

When you attack another tribe and take all their women and have sex with them, that's rape & abuse of prisoners of war.

Once again going with that whole sex slave narrative that's been fed to you. You make it sound as if it's an absolute MUST that ALL women must be taken, raped, made into prisoners of war and kept is some dark dungeons ( as per you imagination )

There is no other way to look at it i'm sorry.

There is an I already explained it to you in great detail but since you got your blinders and not really looking for anything other than forcing your POV down other peoples throats.

You talk as if this is actively promoted and some pillar of faith, this is just leeway to consorts people might have already had and like I said even then they are always mentioned with respect as what your right had possess.

You really shouldn't be arguing about Islam using the Quran as your source, because its very obvious you have very little knowledge on any subject from or of the Quran other than the talking points you cut and paste from your Islamophobic sources. And I've heard them all a million times before.

Whats next, oh Islam is so bad because the Quran says kill the infidel where you find them? Been there done that, so give it a rest.

 

[Citizen X]

You made multiple contradictory statements so tell me which one you made up your mind on. First you said they are not slaves, they are concubines. Then you said they are not concubines because there is no sex involved. So are they concubines or are they not?

I quoted Quranic verse which clearly says whom your right hand possess. That phrases is mentioned 15 times in Quran to refer to slaves. So basically you can expose your private parts only to your wife and your slave girl (Quran makes a distinction between both).

Now show me some more ulti kalabazian.

Post #14

 

[Vitamin_C]

I never said that. You are being dishonest and creating strawmen that you can attack since you cannot defend Quran allowing Muslims the right to abuse prisoners of war.

I said Quran says its allowed to abuse and rape prisoners of war. Do you agree with that? If not what is the punishment for it in Quran if you attack a village and take their women even some of them, as slaves and have sex with them and or sell them?

Then what ISIS did with Yazidi women is acceptable under Quran?

Once again going with that whole sex slave narrative that's been fed to you. You make it sound as if it's an absolute MUST that ALL women must be taken, raped, made into prisoners of war and kept is some dark dungeons ( as per you imagination )

 

[Citizen X]

I never said that. You are being dishonest and creating strawmen that you can attack since you cannot defend Quran allowing Muslims the right to abuse prisoners of war.

I said Quran says its allowed to abuse and rape prisoners of war. Do you agree with that? If not what is the punishment for it in Quran if you attack a village and take their women even some of them, as slaves and have sex with them and or sell them?

Then what ISIS did with Yazidi women is acceptable under Quran?

Like I said

You really shouldn't be arguing about Islam using the Quran as your source, because its very obvious you have very little knowledge on any subject from or of the Quran

what you said is unfortunately true what is being passed of Islam today by the Muslim clergy is exactly what the Taliban and ISIS were trying to do. But fact of the matter is, it really has nothing to with Islam.

I'm glad you keep on just regurgitating the same thing over and over again, saves me from a lot a typing.
Now I'm sure you are going to ask the same question again but from some other angle, worded differently.

Think what that is..................and don't bother typing it out, because I've already answered it on one of my earlier posts, just go back and read them and think that I retyped it for you.

Now you can keep on doing it as many times you like, but the answer is never going to be what you want it to be rather than what it actually is and I'm also not going to bother to keep repeating myself over and over and over and over and over again about the same darn thing.

So the choice is yours really.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Im doing it to expose your dishonesty and how you keep running away from the question. You made a strawman and when i pointed it out again you ran away from the argument. If you have an argument then say it instead of asking me to go through dozens of posts and not find it.

You yourself said that women can be taken from an enemy tribe after a war. And Quran says you can have intercourse with said women. Thats rape and abuse of prisoners.

The funny thing is the more deeper I press you into each thing that ISIS does like rape of Yazidi women, chopping hands off for slavery you seem to agree with them.

They only difference between you and them is that you only agree with the barbaric things in the Quran and not the other barbaric things mentioned in Hadith. From Islamic perspective they are right because Hadih and Sunnat are important part of Islam.

Like I said


I'm glad you keep on just regurgitating the same thing over and over again, saves me from a lot a typing.
Now I'm sure you are going to ask the same question again but from some other angle, worded differently.

Think what that is..................and don't bother typing it out, because I've already answered it on one of my earlier posts, just go back and read them and think that I retyped it for you.

Now you can keep on doing it as many times you like, but the answer is never going to be what you want it to be rather than what it actually is and I'm also not going to bother to keep repeating myself over and over and over and over and over again about the same darn thing.

So the choice is yours really.

 

[Citizen X]

First of all you need to get over your unhealthy obsession with this sex slave thing! Second you just lied again, not the first time here

You yourself said that women can be taken from an enemy tribe after a war

I DARE YOU to show me where I said that.

That was the past tense, was custom back then. Not now, doesn't apply today. I have spent many posts here explaining how things were gradually abolished, but of course you don't want to listen to anyone else and adamant to shove your Islamophobic POV down every ones throats. It;s pathetic that I even have to repeat myself so many times.

And I'm not running away, I'm just bored of you somehow by hook or crook trying to prove your point by already used up and answered multiple time arguments. 2+2 will always be 4. It will never be 5 no matter how much you want it to be.

There is no such thing as a sex slave today, it isn't sanctioned, nor it is considered legal in Islamic jurisprudence today, regardless of what you might want to believe or your Islamophobic gurus tell you.

GET OVER IT!

 

[Mughal1]

ISIS attempted it but it didnt last very long. They raided villages and raped kafir women and sold them as sex slaves according to quran, hadith and prophet's biography. Chopped peoples limbs off for theft and threw gay people off buildings. Subhanallah.

Dear vitamin c, please study the quran or at least try to know things you must know before you could understand the quran properly. This will help you understand the quran properly if you ever decided to read the quran for its proper understanding.

Take my word for it that the quran is very easy to understand once someone who knows it properly explains it to you just like we learn other things from our teachers whoever they may be. The main problem regarding the quran is, hardly a few people bother to truly undertake the task of making proper sense of its message. I mean look at all the interpretations of the quran in the world, you will hardly find more than a few people who have ever tried to interpret the quran properly. It is because people are not rational at all whereas the quran is a rational book through and through.

It is because to understand anything at all we humans need to think rationally ie logically consistently. Otherwise we are only confusing each other more and more which brings nothing but harm and destruction. By teaching nonsense to each other in the name of rationality we are only storing troubles for our own future.

This is why each and every person first must become a rational thinker and then learn things which help to understand the quran rationally consistently and then sit and interpret it. All other interpretations of the quran or wrong therefore unacceptable. This is why no one has the right to use them because they mislead and misguide.

Almost all interpretations of the quran are anti God and anti humanity. Why? Because they have been carried out either by rationally incompetent people or by those who had a particular agenda in their minds whereby they ended up attributing all kinds of nonsense to the quran. This is why I can't let people get away with their nonsense as the actual message of the quran.

I want people to get educated before they talk about the quran so that then they do not talk nonsense in the name of one true God. The quran is not a book of nonsense which ignorant people attribute to it, it matters not they call themselves muslims or nonmuslims.

So kindly avoid using nonsense of others in order to try to discredit the quran. If you think others are talking sense then I can give you some words from the quran and ask you to explain them. This will show you how ignorant are those people whom a lot of foolish people take for great scholars.

The best thing for individuals to do is to learn things for themsleves that are needed for proper understanding of the quran and then examine the quran for their own good and for the good of rest of humnaity otherwise people who have not learned sense of making proper sense of things they should keep their mouths shut because they are not doing any good for themsleves or others. In short it is not a sensible things to do to talk about something in a way one knows nothing about. It is better first learn and then talk about it. pehle tolo phir bolo otherwise one is creating fasaad fil ard and that could means destruction of oneself as well as others. This is why such a thing must not be done.

regards and all the best.

 

[Solomon2]

...I am proud to say that Muslims follow Islam and its concept as a complete way of life because it is the best way for them and there is no doubt in our minds that its pronouncements of the universe, nature, unseen, including historical aspects; and its legislative ruling laying out a complete way of governing in every sphere of our lives from the spiritual to the political are Absolute Truth. Islam has progressive traditions and Islamic civilization has in the past proved capable of extraordinary feats of tolerance. The rebirth of Islam is not only bound up with the new material riches of the Muslim lands but also it is fed by the knowledge that Islam is in a position to offer a spiritual base that is valid for the life of a people -

Another view, advocating nearly the opposite approach to achievement:

...Today, Arab countries are focused on issues of security, stability, and, increasingly, the Iranian threat. The Arab Spring, in which polities began to challenge dominant totalitarian philosophies, marked the breakdown and atomization of political doctrine in the Arab world. The question of tradition vs. modernity has been supplanted by issues of human rights, the condition of women in society, sectarianism, and economic development. Religion is increasingly understood as a component of the sociological realm and not an overarching deterministic principle. In the post-Palestine Middle East, Islam itself will have an opportunity to detach itself from politics and settle more firmly into the sphere of society. Such a shift would be a historical leap forward and, if it solidifies, will go down as the most important development in Islamic history since the inception of the first Islamic political community in seventh-century Arabia.

The post-Palestine era will finally create an opportunity for an open internal examination of Arab and Islamic history, free of the ideological determinism of Palestine-era politics. This, too, could produce a paradigm shift, replacing a stale but widely held understanding of tradition with a modern one. Such a process would allow for a fuller recognition of those elements of Islamic tradition that have stunted the progress of many in the Arab world.

 

[Mughal1]

Another view, advocating nearly the opposite approach to achievement:

...Today, Arab countries are focused on issues of security, stability, and, increasingly, the Iranian threat. The Arab Spring, in which polities began to challenge dominant totalitarian philosophies, marked the breakdown and atomization of political doctrine in the Arab world. The question of tradition vs. modernity has been supplanted by issues of human rights, the condition of women in society, sectarianism, and economic development. Religion is increasingly understood as a component of the sociological realm and not an overarching deterministic principle. In the post-Palestine Middle East, Islam itself will have an opportunity to detach itself from politics and settle more firmly into the sphere of society. Such a shift would be a historical leap forward and, if it solidifies, will go down as the most important development in Islamic history since the inception of the first Islamic political community in seventh-century Arabia.

The post-Palestine era will finally create an opportunity for an open internal examination of Arab and Islamic history, free of the ideological determinism of Palestine-era politics. This, too, could produce a paradigm shift, replacing a stale but widely held understanding of tradition with a modern one. Such a process would allow for a fuller recognition of those elements of Islamic tradition that have stunted the progress of many in the Arab world.

Dear solomon, growth or progress or development or prosperity is stunted by all who invent and enforce or support and follow clear cut falsehood due to their own ignorance and stupidity. It matters not what they claim to be ie hindu, parsi, jew, christian, muslim sikh etc etc. Unless we enforce education anywhere and everywhere people will not pull their weight. Lots of people do not want to leave their comfort zone and many are indifferent to what is happening to humanity. There are more who are damaging humanity mentally and physically and less who are trying to to help it mend itself.

regards and all the best.

 

[Solomon2]

Dear solomon, growth or progress or development or prosperity is stunted by all who invent and enforce or support and follow clear cut falsehood due to their own ignorance and stupidity. It matters not what they claim to be ie hindu, parsi, jew, christian, muslim sikh etc etc. Unless we enforce education anywhere and everywhere people will not pull their weight. Lots of people do not want to leave their comfort zone and many are indifferent to what is happening to humanity. There are more who are damaging humanity mentally and physically and less who are trying to to help it mend itself. regards and all the best.

“I am approached with the most opposite opinions and advice, and that by religious men, who are equally certain that they represent the Divine will. I am sure that either the one or the other is mistaken in that belief, and perhaps in some respects both. I hope it will not be irreverent for me to say that if it is probable that God would reveal his will to others, on a point so connected with my duty, it might be supposed he would reveal it directly to me; for, unless I am more deceived in myself than I often am, it is my earnest desire to know the will of Providence in this matter. And if I can learn what it is, I will do it! These are not, however, the days of miracles, and I suppose it will be granted that I am not to expect a direct revelation. I must study the plain, physical facts of the case, ascertain what is possible and learn what appears to be wise and right...”
― Abraham Lincoln