Delegation of Pakistani doctors announce to set up hospital near LoC, tells Dr Javed Akram

Will_Bite

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Political point scoring? What purpose is that gonna serve, when the kashmiris across the LOC cant even come?
And secondly, the docs who dont hesitate to strike at the drop of a hat, letting patients rot in the sun, are gonna help people across the LOC?
 

gumnam123

Councller (250+ posts)
Political point scoring? What purpose is that gonna serve, when the kashmiris across the LOC cant even come?
And secondly, the docs who dont hesitate to strike at the drop of a hat, letting patients rot in the sun, are gonna help people across the LOC?
lol u r grossly misinformed. doctors strike bcuz they go unpaid for months most of the time. would u do a job if u got no salary for 4 months? i dont think so. Doctors also have families they need to feed. And patients are not left to rot as emergencies are still open. This happened in Abbasi shaheed hospital after the doctors protested bcuz they hadnt gotten their salary for 4 months, but they kept their emergencies open. But they were mocked by the media and a scenario was show that the poor patients are suffering while the doctors protest. The media has successfully made doctors as villains to the public eye.
 

Will_Bite

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
lol u r grossly misinformed. doctors strike bcuz they go unpaid for months most of the time. would u do a job if u got no salary for 4 months? i dont think so. Doctors also have families they need to feed. And patients are not left to rot as emergencies are still open. This happened in Abbasi shaheed hospital after the doctors protested bcuz they hadnt gotten their salary for 4 months, but they kept their emergencies open. But they were mocked by the media and a scenario was show that the poor patients are suffering while the doctors protest. The media has successfully made doctors as villains to the public eye.
There have been many occasions in Punjab, and KPK, where docs have on strike for increase in salaries......or to get a structure as per their demands. At times for days on end
 

gumnam123

Councller (250+ posts)
There have been many occasions in Punjab, and KPK, where docs have on strike for increase in salaries......or to get a structure as per their demands. At times for days on end
strike for increase in salaries depends on the salaries they are getting. we get a measly 30 thousand for a month, and we have to work nights twice a week, thats 24 hours right there. And still we dont get bad for 4 months on end. and all the previous houseofficers never get their last 3 months salary, they dont get it. you have got to understand that the doctors in pakistan face inhumane working hours, in foreign countries they work half the hours.hence most doctors demand increase in fees. samjho office job men roz overtime boss kerwarha ha aur salary utni hi ha, how will u feel? im not saying all doctors are good, but not all of them are bad either. we forget that doctors come from normal citizens. there are as many bad doctors as there are bad politicans, bad engineers, bad police officers, bad office workers, bad businessmen. but somehow doctors have been made villains. just 4 months ago ASH house officers were not paid 4 month salary so they protested and shut down their opds but kept their emergencies open. instead of the media sympathizing with them they were insulted and news were shown that poor patients were suffering bcuz of them. little did they know the patients would have had more money in their pockets than these doctors bcuz they were unpaid for 4 months. that is how the media has shown doctors as villains.
 

Will_Bite

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
strike for increase in salaries depends on the salaries they are getting. we get a measly 30 thousand for a month, and we have to work nights twice a week, thats 24 hours right there. And still we dont get bad for 4 months on end. and all the previous houseofficers never get their last 3 months salary, they dont get it. you have got to understand that the doctors in pakistan face inhumane working hours, in foreign countries they work half the hours.hence most doctors demand increase in fees. samjho office job men roz overtime boss kerwarha ha aur salary utni hi ha, how will u feel? im not saying all doctors are good, but not all of them are bad either. we forget that doctors come from normal citizens. there are as many bad doctors as there are bad politicans, bad engineers, bad police officers, bad office workers, bad businessmen. but somehow doctors have been made villains. just 4 months ago ASH house officers were not paid 4 month salary so they protested and shut down their opds but kept their emergencies open. instead of the media sympathizing with them they were insulted and news were shown that poor patients were suffering bcuz of them. little did they know the patients would have had more money in their pockets than these doctors bcuz they were unpaid for 4 months. that is how the media has shown doctors as villains.
In the US, during residency, doctors are mandated to do two 36 hour shifts a week. And I have serious doubts about 30,000 salary. Not saying that you are wrong, but i have doctors in my family in Pakistan as well, and 30,000 is a fraction of what they make.

You can argue about the facilities they have in hospitals, and the quality of care and equipment....but Im not sure they suffer from low salaries. Long working hours are common in all service based jobs......like police, army, civil defense, medicine etc
 

gumnam123

Councller (250+ posts)
In the US, during residency, doctors are mandated to do two 36 hour shifts a week. And I have serious doubts about 30,000 salary. Not saying that you are wrong, but i have doctors in my family in Pakistan as well, and 30,000 is a fraction of what they make.

You can argue about the facilities they have in hospitals, and the quality of care and equipment....but Im not sure they suffer from low salaries. Long working hours are common in all service based jobs......like police, army, civil defense, medicine etc
well for houseofficers that is the salary. as you get postgraduate degrees you will obviously get a higher pay. im talking about the govt setup not the private setup. You dont see private hospital doctors protesting do u?The funny thing is that the salary is supposed to be 45,000 but the provincial govt aka PPP has not increased the salary even though they have approved the salary. Thats one reason why doctors protest. Then the 2nd reason is they work such a tough job but dont get paid for 4 months and even more if they dont protest. You have got to remember most of them are high merit students from good families. Why would they want to protest if there wasnt a good reason to do so? And the working hours of doctors in pakistan are harsh, and they arent equitable to the salary that the doctors get. A little research will do you a lot of good. In the US you have job security, good conditions to work, all the facilities you require, and they still work less hours than pakistani doctors for significantly more pay. In pakistan you dont have electricity, working labs, clean and hygienic environments, good medical equipment and you have to work for longer hours in a less secure place with more danger for less money. I'll say it again research about this topic. Im sorry but you dont have much knowledge on this matter. Here is one such link: https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pakistan/doctor-moves-court-against-weekly-102-hour-work-at-pakistani-hospitals-1.65049916 There is a reason many doctors opt to go overseas rather than staying here.
 

Will_Bite

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
well for houseofficers that is the salary. as you get postgraduate degrees you will obviously get a higher pay. im talking about the govt setup not the private setup. You dont see private hospital doctors protesting do u?The funny thing is that the salary is supposed to be 45,000 but the provincial govt aka PPP has not increased the salary even though they have approved the salary. Thats one reason why doctors protest. Then the 2nd reason is they work such a tough job but dont get paid for 4 months and even more if they dont protest. You have got to remember most of them are high merit students from good families. Why would they want to protest if there wasnt a good reason to do so? And the working hours of doctors in pakistan are harsh, and they arent equitable to the salary that the doctors get. A little research will do you a lot of good. In the US you have job security, good conditions to work, all the facilities you require, and they still work less hours than pakistani doctors for significantly more pay. In pakistan you dont have electricity, working labs, clean and hygienic environments, good medical equipment and you have to work for longer hours in a less secure place with more danger for less money. I'll say it again research about this topic. Im sorry but you dont have much knowledge on this matter. Here is one such link: https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pakistan/doctor-moves-court-against-weekly-102-hour-work-at-pakistani-hospitals-1.65049916 There is a reason many doctors opt to go overseas rather than staying here.
This seems more like a political issue than medical. PPP has never had their act straight. Doctors inPunjab are now making the same as those in KPK, which is significantly higher than 30,000.
As for working conditions, 80 hours a week is the average for first year residents in the US. Often it is more.
Reasons why Paksitani docs have more to complain about is the following.
1. Bad working conditions (lack of medicines, equipment, facilities at hospitals)
2. Graduates not practicing the profession, and using the degree as a label only, hence reducing the number of docs available.
3. Bad attendance at hospitals.

I hope Sindh docs get their due. Doctors deserve to be paid well, no doubt. But long working hours are pretty common across the world. Just that they are structured differently. Naturally, doing 80 hours a week in a US hospital is not the same as doing 80 hours in a DHQ Hospital in some remote area in Sindh
 

gumnam123

Councller (250+ posts)
This seems more like a political issue than medical. PPP has never had their act straight. Doctors inPunjab are now making the same as those in KPK, which is significantly higher than 30,000.
As for working conditions, 80 hours a week is the average for first year residents in the US. Often it is more.
Reasons why Paksitani docs have more to complain about is the following.
1. Bad working conditions (lack of medicines, equipment, facilities at hospitals)
2. Graduates not practicing the profession, and using the degree as a label only, hence reducing the number of docs available.
3. Bad attendance at hospitals.

I hope Sindh docs get their due. Doctors deserve to be paid well, no doubt. But long working hours are pretty common across the world. Just that they are structured differently. Naturally, doing 80 hours a week in a US hospital is not the same as doing 80 hours in a DHQ Hospital in some remote area in Sindh
No, im talking about comparisons. The working hours in pakistan are longer than in other countries bcuz there is no law for it, the influx of patients is very high in our hospitals so the working hours are much longer. In US and other foreign countries the working hours are fixed hence the doctors are not overburdened. But here in pakistan its a different story. You saw the link that I posted. That is the point im trying to make. there needs to be a law prohibiting doctors to work greater than 80 hours a week but there isnt one. I have read studies talking about comparisons between working hours of doctors in pakistan but I cant find it. The point is there are some problems in this regard too, but these are not solved like the above. Another point im trying to make is that sometimes protests happen politically and sometimes they are for a just cause but the media always treats it as a political issue and brands the doctors as the villains even when their cause is right. That is why people have begun to think of doctors as daku and chors when its the opposite. I still remember when the doctors of ASH had not gotten paid for 4 months and they were protesting and the headlines read "poor patients suffer bcuz of the strike of doctors" 😥
 
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Will_Bite

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
that is true but im talking about comparisons. I have read studies talking about comparisons between working hours of doctors in pakistan but I cant find it. The point is there are some problems in this regard too, but these are not solved like the above. The point im trying to make is that sometimes protests happen politically and sometimes they are for a just cause but the media always treats it as a political issue and brands the doctors as the villains even when their cause is right. That is why people have begun to think of doctors as daku and chors when its the opposite. I still remember when the doctors of ASH had not gotten paid for 4 months and they were protesting and the headlines read "poor patients suffer bcuz of the strike of doctors" 😥
I think it is because of the fact that political parties have routinely used such groups in order to further their political aims, and in the process, groups, like doctors, laborers, and other victims, inadvertently become pawns in the hands of these politicians. That is why these protests are always viewed questionably.
 

gumnam123

Councller (250+ posts)
I think it is because of the fact that political parties have routinely used such groups in order to further their political aims, and in the process, groups, like doctors, laborers, and other victims, inadvertently become pawns in the hands of these politicians. That is why these protests are always viewed questionably.
I doubt it. Lawyers I can understand but doctors not so much. I think its the sensationalism that the media wants so they create such stories to pit people against doctors bcuz its easier that way. Honest reporting wont get them the trp that the media needs. Most of the population is illiterate so they eat it up without questioning it. Our people also think that its the responsibility of the doctors to get them their medicines, to clean the floors, to clean the bathrooms etc. That is the job of pharmacists, janitors etc. And when doctors dont do such things they get angry at doctors and think that the doctors are chor and daku etc. You'll see this if you ever go to a govt hospital. Being a doctor in pakistan is one of the hardest jobs in pakistan. No foreign doctor will be able to work even 1 day here. But still doctors work hard and majority only want what I just told you, but they dont get it and they have to protest.
 
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