ZABTA-E-HAYAT - Dr Khalid Zaheer with his mentor Javed Ahmed Ghamidi - "Educational System of Pak"

[meezan]

 

[k.a.kiani]

what is stopping this lady to cover her whole head. If it is not necessary then what is use of this artificiality. when you are talking about Islam you are covering your head to show off and when you do other program then why do you not cover the heads.

HIPPOCRATIC ATTITUDE

 

[Mughal1]

what is stopping this lady to cover her whole head. If it is not necessary then what is use of this artificiality. when you are talking about Islam you are covering your head to show off and when you do other program then why do you not cover the heads.

HIPPOCRATIC ATTITUDE

Dear brother although I would agree with the point your are making but it is all due to our social abnormality and deformity where people are forced to behave in a certain way to be accepted rather than expressing their true self. So long as world lives by double standards, this cannot be eliminated. In the west for example, if anyone wears certain costume people do the same therefore some people rather behave as they see fit for their society. It depends on who is in control.

In our society we have multiple problems ie we do not take each other as a part of brotherhood therefore no one is safe in our society regardless man or woman, rich or poor, young or old. So people behave anyway it seem ok for them. Men rape women within their own close relatives ie cousins. So whether one is having head cover or not is not the point but how we look at each other ie shikaar and shikaari mentality=animal mindset and attitude towards each other. Only when people rise to human level they respect each other and love to protect each other taking care of each other that is what brotherhood is all about.

This is atmosphere created by kings and their mullahs ie it is they who broke this brotherhood and turned us all into enemies to each other having no respect for each other. Once they took slaves and maids sky was the limit. Strong people took away daughters of weak people and they do so even today for rape. If you do not know history please study it and see what kings and mullahs have done to islam and muslims and what ruling elite and their funded and protected mullahs are doing to ummah today.

Head covering is least of our worries in the light of reality we are living. We need to learn about true spirit of islam. Then any old man will look at any young woman just as his daughter and young man who is married happily will look at other young women as his sisters and feel duty bound to protect them instead of thinking about abusing them as soon as they come in to his view. So long as we behave like thieves and robbers as regard each others God given rights and responsibilities none is safe man or woman, young or old. This is called curse of kings and mullahs or ruling elite and mullahs and it will be lifted from us once we kick these out of our environment and society.

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?50593-Javed-Ghamdi-Salman-Taseer-Asma-Jhangir-Khuda-ka-khof-karen-plz!-Nice-Column-by-Orya-Maqbool-Jan&p=711922&viewfull=1#post711922

 

[k.a.kiani]

Dear brother although I would agree with the point your are making but it is all due to our social abnormality and deformity where people are forced to behave in a certain way to be accepted rather than expressing their true self. So long as world lives by double standards, this cannot be eliminated. In the west for example, if anyone wears certain costume people do the same therefore some people rather behave as they see fit for their society. It depends on who is in control.

In our society we have multiple problems ie we do not take each other as a part of brotherhood therefore no one is safe in our society regardless man or woman, rich or poor, young or old. So people behave anyway it seem ok for them. Men rape women within their own close relatives ie cousins. So whether one is having head cover or not is not the point but how we look at each other ie shikaar and shikaari mentality=animal mindset and attitude towards each other. Only when people rise to human level they respect each other and love to protect each other taking care of each other that is what brotherhood is all about.

This is atmosphere created by kings and their mullahs ie it is they who broke this brotherhood and turned us all into enemies to each other having no respect for each other. Once they took slaves and maids sky was the limit. Strong people took away daughters of weak people and they do so even today for rape. If you do not know history please study it and see what kings and mullahs have done to islam and muslims and what ruling elite and their funded and protected mullahs are doing to ummah today.

Head covering is least of our worries in the light of reality we are living. We need to learn about true spirit of islam. Then any old man will look at any young woman just as his daughter and young man who is married happily will look at other young women as his sisters and feel duty bound to protect them instead of thinking about abusing them as soon as they come in to his view. So long as we behave like thieves and robbers as regard each others God given rights and responsibilities none is safe man or woman, young or old. This is called curse of kings and mullahs or ruling elite and mullahs and it will be lifted from us once we kick these out of our environment and society. ​

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?50593-Javed-Ghamdi-Salman-Taseer-Asma-Jhangir-Khuda-ka-khof-karen-plz!-Nice-Column-by-Orya-Maqbool-Jan&p=711922&viewfull=1#post711922 [\QUOTE]


wow sounds like good philosophical point you tried to make. As I could understand from what you have written is, that she pretended to cover llittle part of her head to satisfy that mindset you mentioned. If it is so then I will humbly dare to disagree with your philosophy because it is not matching with the philosphy of Islam unfortunately.

You know what if you become so slave of that society and can't raise your voice against the powers who are threatening your freedom, it is still an hyppocracy. You can't make an excuse of living dual and hyppocratic life by accusing some mullahs or liberalists. You should live one life which you think is right because you are going to answer to your God one day and he is not going to listen your excuses.

You get the freedom if you ask for it. If you don't have the balls to get it then don't cry by making excuses.

 

[A.G.Uddin]

Both Ghamidi and Zaheer explained the misfortune that our society faces in terms of education and training. In countries like USA and Canada, every state/province enjoys a certain degree of independence in carving out its own format of education,books and courses etc....in our case, provincial institutions can't even introduce an updated textbook on their own.

Plus, religious texts are indeed bias. You can't discuss divese ideas even in open else any bystander may kill you after yelling blasphemy,blasphemy,kufr,kufr. We need to let intellects from different spectra to come together and decide the roadmap and what our kids are suppose to know about our history,foreign relations,culture and major priorities etc.....

 

[Mughal1]

Dear brother although I would agree with the point your are making but it is all due to our social abnormality and deformity where people are forced to behave in a certain way to be accepted rather than expressing their true self. So long as world lives by double standards, this cannot be eliminated. In the west for example, if anyone wears certain costume people do the same therefore some people rather behave as they see fit for their society. It depends on who is in control.

In our society we have multiple problems ie we do not take each other as a part of brotherhood therefore no one is safe in our society regardless man or woman, rich or poor, young or old. So people behave anyway it seem ok for them. Men rape women within their own close relatives ie cousins. So whether one is having head cover or not is not the point but how we look at each other ie shikaar and shikaari mentality=animal mindset and attitude towards each other. Only when people rise to human level they respect each other and love to protect each other taking care of each other that is what brotherhood is all about.

This is atmosphere created by kings and their mullahs ie it is they who broke this brotherhood and turned us all into enemies to each other having no respect for each other. Once they took slaves and maids sky was the limit. Strong people took away daughters of weak people and they do so even today for rape. If you do not know history please study it and see what kings and mullahs have done to islam and muslims and what ruling elite and their funded and protected mullahs are doing to ummah today.

Head covering is least of our worries in the light of reality we are living. We need to learn about true spirit of islam. Then any old man will look at any young woman just as his daughter and young man who is married happily will look at other young women as his sisters and feel duty bound to protect them instead of thinking about abusing them as soon as they come in to his view. So long as we behave like thieves and robbers as regard each others God given rights and responsibilities none is safe man or woman, young or old. This is called curse of kings and mullahs or ruling elite and mullahs and it will be lifted from us once we kick these out of our environment and society. ​

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?50593-Javed-Ghamdi-Salman-Taseer-Asma-Jhangir-Khuda-ka-khof-karen-plz!-Nice-Column-by-Orya-Maqbool-Jan&p=711922&viewfull=1#post711922 [\QUOTE]


wow sounds like good philosophical point you tried to make. As I could understand from what you have written is, that she pretended to cover llittle part of her head to satisfy that mindset you mentioned. If it is so then I will humbly dare to disagree with your philosophy because it is not matching with the philosphy of Islam unfortunately.

You know what if you become so slave of that society and can't raise your voice against the powers who are threatening your freedom, it is still an hyppocracy. You can't make an excuse of living dual and hyppocratic life by accusing some mullahs or liberalists. You should live one life which you think is right because you are going to answer to your God one day and he is not going to listen your excuses.

You get the freedom if you ask for it. If you don't have the balls to get it then don't cry by making excuses.

Dear brother, it is easy to talk and very difficult to live up to an ideal as an individual in a main stream that is strangling you from all sides. In any society where people must wear clothes you will be locked if you did not and like wise, in place where all people walk naked you will be thrown out if you wore clothes. This is how different societies make their own rules. if parents are not happy with children they throw them out of their house and likewise if children are not happy with parents they too do the same.
By behaving as odd one oput you are going to be seen as a trouble maker and so they are going to deal with you as they see fit. So if one person causes troubles for the rest then they too are going to react and thus life of everyone will become a living hell but particularly for the one on his own.

This is why you cannot be forceful to anyone when you are in a weak position no matter how much you may feel trapped and no matter how much you may try to rise against the rest. This is why whenever prophets rose in a people they preached instead of fighting in order to gain support by trying to find like minded people to create of party of like minded people. Once core party came about it was used to expand the movement till it gain enough power to change the system or to move away from the place and people that did not do them any good. However the while they weak they bore much of abuse by those in power ie chiefs and priests. It took our prophet 13 years in makkah to create a core party before he was able to move to madinah. Time in makkah was spent through secret missionary work to avoid detection by opponent forces so that people were not put through unnecessary pain and suffering. So no matter what anyone feels but advice remains to work quietly through society in order to change it for the better. One person is not society rather all of its members together make a society and it takes a lot of hard work to convince each and every person to what may be good for them. So it is matter of having a good target to start with and then the rest of things that give people what they might need so that they could support the movement. Changing people from what they are to what you want them to be is not easy as is obvious on this very forum. For prophets it was all about teaching people what God gave them to tell them.

Islam is not about haphazardly going on killing spree to show bravery or to show bravery through offering oneself for killing, for it is about life not death. It is an education based revolution not blood based. Only if fighting becomes inevitable that one may fight but starting war is not allowed till you assume you have good chance of winning otherwise saving life to fight another day and win would be the better strategy. Not only kufaar hid amongst muslims as munafiqoon but muslims also hid their beliefs under such circumstances in order to save their lives.

In our case it is better for us to understand the quran properly and spread that message and see if we get support or not. if we do then movement can grow and one day system could be changed otherwise we will have to live as best as we can. All prophets before they were given the go ahead for mission lived with their people as everyone else around them was living. Today all are living by capitalist system and I do not see any of us living away from it in isolation. This one thing is lesson enough for all of us that societies cannot be ignored by individuals though societies can boycott individuals. This is why individual is trapped and the only way for him is to educate oneself with an ideology that is able to fight existing ideology and win. The very fact that our understanding of the quran fails us again and again should tell us our understanding of the quran is very wrong because we fail to convince anyone with our understanding of the quran. The only right understanding of the quran would be that which could fight the wrong ideologies and show that it is the only ideology on the table that stand after careful examination. This is how we know that our mullahs have been feeding us wrong ideas as islam and all because they never faced any people in debates that matter. It was our islamic thinkers who cursed by mullahs that faced attackers of islam not mullahs.

All our people do is stop people from discussing things about islam, that is reality of mullahs' concepts of islam. True concept of islam is very challenging for all muslims and nonmuslims alike that is how it forces people by reason to accept it as the divine truth. Proper understanding of quran only makes a muslim mentally strong being fully convinced about its divine origin.

The quran is not at all about blind faith that was mullahs trick to make muslim slack in study of the quran. The quran is a manifesto of islam and its constitution for forming a good human society based upon it. It is distributed widely so that everyone knows this manifesto and consitution and if anyone like it then he should come and join the movements for the purpose of accomplishing islam=peace.

Regretfully, instead of studying the quran we have become mullahs and peer and ruling elite worshippers. This is reality of our courageous stance for islam. Our courageous ones are busy blowing up each other that is how we are showing our courage against each other. We say we do not want firqas but we support mullahs who we know are firqa gar and firqa parast. May Allah have mercy upon all of us by giving us proper understanding of his message.

regards and all the best

 

[k.a.kiani]

Dear brother, it is easy to talk and very difficult to live up to an ideal as an individual in a main stream that is strangling you from all sides. In any society where people must wear clothes you will be locked if you did not and like wise, in place where all people walk naked you will be thrown out if you wore clothes. This is how different societies make their own rules. if parents are not happy with children they throw them out of their house and likewise if children are not happy with parents they too do the same.
By behaving as odd one oput you are going to be seen as a trouble maker and so they are going to deal with you as they see fit. So if one person causes troubles for the rest then they too are going to react and thus life of everyone will become a living hell but particularly for the one on his own.

This is why you cannot be forceful to anyone when you are in a weak position no matter how much you may feel trapped and no matter how much you may try to rise against the rest. This is why whenever prophets rose in a people they preached instead of fighting in order to gain support by trying to find like minded people to create of party of like minded people. Once core party came about it was used to expand the movement till it gain enough power to change the system or to move away from the place and people that did not do them any good. However the while they weak they bore much of abuse by those in power ie chiefs and priests. It took our prophet 13 years in makkah to create a core party before he was able to move to madinah. Time in makkah was spent through secret missionary work to avoid detection by opponent forces so that people were not put through unnecessary pain and suffering. So no matter what anyone feels but advice remains to work quietly through society in order to change it for the better. One person is not society rather all of its members together make a society and it takes a lot of hard work to convince each and every person to what may be good for them. So it is matter of having a good target to start with and then the rest of things that give people what they might need so that they could support the movement. Changing people from what they are to what you want them to be is not easy as is obvious on this very forum. For prophets it was all about teaching people what God gave them to tell them.

Islam is not about haphazardly going on killing spree to show bravery or to show bravery through offering oneself for killing, for it is about life not death. It is an education based revolution not blood based. Only if fighting becomes inevitable that one may fight but starting war is not allowed till you assume you have good chance of winning otherwise saving life to fight another day and win would be the better strategy. Not only kufaar hid amongst muslims as munafiqoon but muslims also hid their beliefs under such circumstances in order to save their lives.

In our case it is better for us to understand the quran properly and spread that message and see if we get support or not. if we do then movement can grow and one day system could be changed otherwise we will have to live as best as we can. All prophets before they were given the go ahead for mission lived with their people as everyone else around them was living. Today all are living by capitalist system and I do not see any of us living away from it in isolation. This one thing is lesson enough for all of us that societies cannot be ignored by individuals though societies can boycott individuals. This is why individual is trapped and the only way for him is to educate oneself with an ideology that is able to fight existing ideology and win. The very fact that our understanding of the quran fails us again and again should tell us our understanding of the quran is very wrong because we fail to convince anyone with our understanding of the quran. The only right understanding of the quran would be that which could fight the wrong ideologies and show that it is the only ideology on the table that stand after careful examination. This is how we know that our mullahs have been feeding us wrong ideas as islam and all because they never faced any people in debates that matter. It was our islamic thinkers who cursed by mullahs that faced attackers of islam not mullahs.

All our people do is stop people from discussing things about islam, that is reality of mullahs' concepts of islam. True concept of islam is very challenging for all muslims and nonmuslims alike that is how it forces people by reason to accept it as the divine truth. Proper understanding of quran only makes a muslim mentally strong being fully convinced about its divine origin.

The quran is not at all about blind faith that was mullahs trick to make muslim slack in study of the quran. The quran is a manifesto of islam and its constitution for forming a good human society based upon it. It is distributed widely so that everyone knows this manifesto and consitution and if anyone like it then he should come and join the movements for the purpose of accomplishing islam=peace.

Regretfully, instead of studying the quran we have become mullahs and peer and ruling elite worshippers. This is reality of our courageous stance for islam. Our courageous ones are busy blowing up each other that is how we are showing our courage against each other. We say we do not want firqas but we support mullahs who we know are firqa gar and firqa parast. May Allah have mercy upon all of us by giving us proper understanding of his message.

regards and all the best

i really don't have time like you have to prove your cowardness. You know what if you are so scared then why not obey or follow what they ask. your life will become lot better than now. For me that christian is lot better than you who is still living in Pakistan without changing his faith due to the fear of Mullahs and peer you are talking about. Learn something from them.

Here is my advice and I have no fear to express anywhere in the world and I always do where I get the chance. Recite Quran and Hadiths with all of your efforts to understand it and then live your life according to it without listening mullahs and don't be afraid of them. But I am not going to buy you philosphy of cowardness.

In pakistan, there are people who completely deny our belief( i am talking about Qadiyanis) but they don't change their faith because of fear from Mullahs and peers so pakistani society is still not that backward who openly kill every one by covering or not covering the head.

Get out of your cowardness and don't be afraid of expressing your views and acting on the way you want.

 

[Mughal1]

i really don't have time like you have to prove your cowardness. You know what if you are so scared then why not obey or follow what they ask. your life will become lot better than now. For me that christian is lot better than you who is still living in Pakistan without changing his faith due to the fear of Mullahs and peer you are talking about. Learn something from them.

Here is my advice and I have no fear to express anywhere in the world and I always do where I get the chance. Recite Quran and Hadiths with all of your efforts to understand it and then live your life according to it without listening mullahs and don't be afraid of them. But I am not going to buy you philosphy of cowardness.

In pakistan, there are people who completely deny our belief( i am talking about Qadiyanis) but they don't change their faith because of fear from Mullahs and peers so pakistani society is still not that backward who openly kill every one by covering or not covering the head.

Get out of your cowardness and don't be afraid of expressing your views and acting on the way you want.

theek hai bhai jab waqt mile us waqt ghor se pad lena maine likha kia hai. Allah aap par raham famaye.