Urdu as a scientific language???

[حکایت جنوں]

Urdu as a scientific language??? Some questions to new revolutionaries of Imran Khan

Urdu is our national language. But it does not still has the status of official language of Pakistan. I have some questions in this regard and these question are for everyone on this forum but especially to Imran Khan's revolutionaries. They claim to challenge the status quo. Will they challenge the status quo on this issue because this issue is attached to our national integrity and honor.Can Urdu ever become the scientific language?If No! how will you explain the fact that Urdu presents one of the best literature of literary critique? If a language has such a vast literature of literary sciences why can't it be made the language of social sciences and natural sciences???If yes! Why did Pakistani governments not take any serious steps in this regard? What political action can be taken to persuade our governments to translate major works of social and natural sciences so that Urdu can be implemented in colleges and universities as a scientific language? Now Pakistani people have much more strong ties and feel much more solidarity and nationalist feeling then why Pakistani politicians does not create a consensus in the country on this issue?

 

[حکایت جنوں]

Good editing. Thnx admin

 

[aneeskhan]

Urdu aik aisee amar bail hai jo khud hee phal phool rahi hai,its most common communicating language in middle east,far east most of labourers from bangladesh,srilanka,nepal,afghanistan,india&off course Pakistan speak very well in urdu,I think if you introduce in europe it may be a good communicating language for them also,it has vast capacity to absorb all ingredients.
Yes we must keep alive Adabi or academic Urdu also alive.

 

[حکایت جنوں]

Magar aneeskhan sb mera sawal urdu ko aik sciensi zaban ke taur per taraqqi deine se mutalliq tha. Is ke ilawa is sawal per guftagoo bhi darkaar hai keh isey Pakistan mei is ka haqq dilaane ke liye kin siasi iqdamaat ki zaroorat hai?????

 

[jshahzad]

100% agreed....

 

[rafay1122]

Yeh mera khuab hai...

I see how europeans suck at english and we guys are soo good at it... It amazes them. Back in the days I used to take pride in them praising me, until I realized how silly is it that they can communicate in English (which is all that is required really) and study in their own language which helps them be more creative. Arabs prospered because they translated everything into arabic. Same goes for Europeans. Interesting thing is that Ik has highlighted this whole English being our official language and 3 education systems issue in his book but hasn't given a verdict yet on what will he do. I am quite hopeful, knowing how he makes sure he only speak urdu until he is required to speak in English (foreign channels) I guess there is no reason why he shouldn't be on the same page as us.

According to IK, the new Pakistan MUST not have enslaved brains loitering around anymore and removing English as a status symbol is a MUST for that.

I wanna ask this question to him directly whenever he's around here and will see what he says!

jzk

 

[aneeskhan]

Magar aneeskhan sb mera sawal urdu ko aik sciensi zaban ke taur per taraqqi deine se mutalliq tha. Is ke ilawa is sawal per guftagoo bhi darkaar hai keh isey Pakistan mei is ka haqq dilaane ke liye kin siasi iqdamaat ki zaroorat hai?????

Bhai what political situation we are facing after 2007 I don,t believe there is any chance it will get better,you are saying is truth but possibly time is not suitable I am afraid in this demand you might face some nausty criticism by one quarter.

 

[حکایت جنوں]

Thanks very much. Your answer is very encouraging for me

 

[adnan_younus]

because we were british colobies.... =just liek in morocco they speak french because they were a french colony...

Yeh mera khuab hai...

I see how europeans suck at english and we guys are soo good at it... It amazes them. Back in the days I used to take pride in them praising me, until I realized how silly is it that they can communicate in English (which is all that is required really) and study in their own language which helps them be more creative. Arabs prospered because they translated everything into arabic. Same goes for Europeans. Interesting thing is that Ik has highlighted this whole English being our official language and 3 education systems issue in his book but hasn't given a verdict yet on what will he do. I am quite hopeful, knowing how he makes sure he only speak urdu until he is required to speak in English (foreign channels) I guess there is no reason why he shouldn't be on the same page as us.

According to IK, the new Pakistan MUST not have enslaved brains loitering around anymore and removing English as a status symbol is a MUST for that.

I wanna ask this question to him directly whenever he's around here and will see what he says!

jzk

 

[adnan_younus]

simple reason; uve to build science first and then introduce language.. we dont have enuff material in urdu for science..... even the europeans hv now understood this and now learning english keenly.. frensh and china are different examples.. they have good solid scientific base....... compare to india... they started i english and used it to gain good base,, and now moving on with their regional and national language and promoting it...

the first step is to gain stability and a scientfic base and brains.. all these tasks come after wards...

zia ul haq AKA idiot-e-azam made urdu compulsary for sceiene and that created huge problems and it had to be retracted..... jazbati se kaam nahi chalta... plan kerna perta hai....

there are many enlgish words we dobt have any translation form.... try SMS [hilar]

Thanks very much. Your answer is very encouraging for me

 

[adnan_younus]

i agree on removing eglish as a status symbo.. BUT not removing english.... it actually means english sab ko aani chahiye so talking in english is not taboo..

in india.. even a rickshaw driver soeaks english from teh education eh got in primary govt schoool.... so there english is not a status symbol there...

make english so commonly acesible to ppl tat it doesnt become a ststus symbol and a burger language any more

Yeh mera khuab hai...

I see how europeans suck at english and we guys are soo good at it... It amazes them. Back in the days I used to take pride in them praising me, until I realized how silly is it that they can communicate in English (which is all that is required really) and study in their own language which helps them be more creative. Arabs prospered because they translated everything into arabic. Same goes for Europeans. Interesting thing is that Ik has highlighted this whole English being our official language and 3 education systems issue in his book but hasn't given a verdict yet on what will he do. I am quite hopeful, knowing how he makes sure he only speak urdu until he is required to speak in English (foreign channels) I guess there is no reason why he shouldn't be on the same page as us.

According to IK, the new Pakistan MUST not have enslaved brains loitering around anymore and removing English as a status symbol is a MUST for that.

I wanna ask this question to him directly whenever he's around here and will see what he says!

jzk

 

[rafay1122]

i agree on removing eglish as a status symbo.. BUT not removing english.... it actually means english sab ko aani chahiye so talking in english is not taboo..

in india.. even a rickshaw driver soeaks english from teh education eh got in primary govt schoool.... so there english is not a status symbol there...

make english so commonly acesible to ppl tat it doesnt become a ststus symbol and a burger language any more

Exactly my point... Thanks for elaborating..

jzk

 

[InsafianPTI]

it would be good if that happens, but we as a nation have not acquired much of the scientific knowledge yet, let alot translate it all in urdu.
it is a good thing to talk about, but has minimum chance to be at the top of the agenda as there are other devestating things happening in pakistan.

all the europeons translate everything in their language, so does israel, of course we should do that. we need to have educated people first of all and ou r governments should take some steps to initiate this.

Magar aneeskhan sb mera sawal urdu ko aik sciensi zaban ke taur per taraqqi deine se mutalliq tha. Is ke ilawa is sawal per guftagoo bhi darkaar hai keh isey Pakistan mei is ka haqq dilaane ke liye kin siasi iqdamaat ki zaroorat hai?????

 

[InsafianPTI]

its so amazing that I wrote the comment above without reading what others were saying, and then read others comments afterwards.

and as you can see they are very similar, put some of them together.

;):P

 

[حکایت جنوں]

This is very easy to translte SMS in urdu but this example does not apply to my questions. SMS as a word has become a part of globalized language. Majority of the people don't know what does it stands for. We live in the era of globalization so different people will adopt words of different cultures due to an active and daily contact with each other. For example the word chapati has been entered in English language which is a good sign of multiculturalism. This process will continue and I am not against it.
My question is that if we want to resist colonialism in economic and political terms why not then in cultural terms?
You talked about Zia ul Haq but unfortunately you forget to mention three other biggest idiots of our country who are Ayub, Yahya and Musharraf. It is due to these four idiots that we are suffering from socio-political, cultural and economic maladies.
India is also a very bad example for our discussion. They needed English for two reasons. 1- Even today at-least 30 crore of the Indians can't speak Hindi because Hindi is restricted in North India. South India was always a different cultural zone in history before the British colonization. So they were obliged to use the colonial language for the communication between people from different cultures within one State. 2- India was also colonized and the colonial authorities created a minority who can speak in their language and adopt and idealize their cultural values and norms. This middle class (Kala Angreiz) was created to control large population for economic and political interests of the colonialists. Our elites were also helping the colonialists for this superficial modernisation because their interests and power could only be saved if they became parteners of the colonialists. So the colonialists with the help of comprodor elite and a small middle class literally raped the natural resources of this country. And why did colonialists succeed in it? Because they succeed in alienating this elite and middle class from local cultures and people through their implementation of English language and western norms and mindset.
Pakistan as a country was also colonized because at that time we were part of India but we are different from India in one very important aspect. Unlike Hindu, Urdu was the langua fanca of Pakistan and was and is spoken in every part of our country and it has another quality which no local languages of this country can match. Urdu binds us with our culture (due to its grammatical structure) and on the same time units us with the larger circle of our Islamic civilization (its vocabulary). These qualities were very convincing in accepting it as their national educational and official language but the continuity of the colonial institutions and mindset prevent us from doing it. It was necessary for the conservation of power for their future generations. So even after 50 years the generations of that comprodor feudal (afterwards capitalist) military and bureaucratic elite is ruling us. They will never implement Urdu or other local languages because this means end of their difference with us (the real sons and daughters of soil of this country) in terms of power and culture. These are the gods of Pakistan.
You gave me the correct example of China. China got independence after us in 1949 through a revolution so the country got independence from the foreign subjugation but also from the old elites of that country. They developed a local education system in their own language thus started a process of modernization permeated through their own language (the most powerful representative of culture) and thus constructed by and large a harmonized nation. They did this all only in 40 to 50 years. They use English as well for some specified research areas in natural sciences and for business purposes and which is a very rational decision. So my question is Are we ready then to adopt chinese example or to remain prisoner of our colonial legacy.

 

[Competent]

your topic is not relevant, No Urdu can not be a scientific language even English is not a scientific language itself it just used in creation of all Scientific languages.
to use Urdu as a scientific language we should first have to have our own scientists then we don't need to follow other languages.

 

[حکایت جنوں]

Thnx for correcting my mistake. However the post itself and the discussion on it is sufficient enough to understand what I meant. I don't think so that it is the only hurdle in the implementation of Urdu language that we don't have enough scientists. Frankly, I consider it a rather lame excuse. China, Finland and many developed and developing countries have overcome this deficiency in less than 25 years. We have very good institutions like Higher Education Commission which can produce a large number of PhD's and scientists within 10 years and some of them can devote their lives under the umbrella of State to translate these sciences into our own language. The real reason is what I have explained just above your post

 

[prolife]

I lived in Indian side of Kashmir till mid 90's. I remember in our pre high school years of late 60's and mid seventies our all science books were in Urdu. In eightys every thing changed. Our lack in technology introduction of typewriter and then computer took Urdu and Hindi out of the business world. Also, government education policy has a lot to do in safeguarding national and cultural interests of its people. One National language plays an important role in nation building, unity, integrity and human development. Unfortunately South Assian countries being an ex British colony, english language left quite an impact on certain social circles which were partners with the ruling and upper class. That upper class having served in higher goverment positions in the colonial times were so influencial in the policy making of free India and Pakistan. The same clonial mindset carried on a leftover agenda. They continued to promote english language, and english social values as a symbol of modernity, knowledge, and education. Local languages like Urdu and Hindi were considered intelectually inferior. This impression created an inferiority feeling among those who did not have any english language skills. Speaking in English language was considered civilized which led to mushrooming of private English medium schools with a deliberate attempt of destroying public school system where natinal language was a medium.

These were some basic causes for a death of our national language. Government policies lacked any motivation to develope national language as a medium in higher educational system in the fields of science, technology or social sciences. It is hard to say if the neglegence by the government was intentional or part of ignorance or poor vission.

In India commercial priorities in the socity has made English not only business but national language of India. In meausre cities of India local Indians talk to each other in englsih, in homes, in public places,in market places, schools, colleges, TV and so on. Hindi or Udu is only spoken on film secreen by movie stars but in private life they ever speak in Hindi or Urdu. Is it good or bad for a country, when her own citizens talk to eachother in their homes in a foreign language. Isn't it a hypocracy, the language which has given them so much fame, wealth and stardom, same feel inferior to speak that in the public.
I don't agree with a post that says India has maintained a balance between the indian national language and use of english. India is in a worse position than Pakistan in a comparison where people speak in their own national language or have used it as medium in higher education systems of sciences and technology.


I totally agree with you PTI government should have this in one of their priority projects to promote and develop Urdu medium and creat an environment to dignify Urdu speaking by all Pakistanis. The future government of Pakistan should encourage and fund projects to develpe urdu medium to be used in advanced sciencific researchs, and social sciences. Provide free urdu language skill classes in foreign countries with the support of Pakistani embassys in abroad.

 

[حکایت جنوں]

Sir excellent reply from you. At least I heard one sane voice with good arguments in this post. However please permit me to say that the negligence on the part of governments is intentional because they were heir of colonial legacy and colonialism not only destroys a country economically but it also leave the colonized culturally barren and psychologically schizophrenic.