Tarek: Islamic Caliphate & Pak Brainwashing

[Nepali Pandit]

Tarek Fatah - Pakistani-born Canadian political activist, scholar and critic of Islamic fundamentalism, and author of "Chasing a Mirage: The Tragic Illusion of an Islamic State" - discusses the nature of Islamic fundamentalism and the identity crisis of Pakistan. He describes how: (a) Muslims cling to a glorified past as they have no contributions to the present; (b) there is no official role of clerics in Islam and faith should be left to the individual; (c) Islamic revivalism is a 20th century phenomenon rooted in European colonialism; (d) Islam must be reconciled with modernity to enable progress of Muslim societies; (e) the Golden Age of Islam is a myth and cannot be used as a model for the future; (f) a country can have an Islamic character but cannot be organized as an Islamic state (ie. Caliphate); and (g) no Western country should allow Sharia law on account of its regressive nature. He also discusses the identity crisis of Pakistan by explaining how: (1) the official propaganda against India and Hindus forces Pak Muslim youth to adopt an Arab ideology and culture; (2) Islamic fundamentalism is at odds with the tolerant and inclusive nature of Pak's Indian heritage; and (3) politicians in Pak are beginning to realize that India's economic success is due to its open society. This interview was recorded in 2008.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i47KNrO7UE[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE2IPm6bneU[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TknggKuNio[/video]

 

[taul]

---I Truly hope you'd do little research as well and shed some light on the contribution of Hindus in Middle ages :geek: still i await any hindu scientist name on the contribution to science in earlier days :oops: :oops:


--Basic Conceptual facts were provided by Muslim Scientists from Mathematics to Physics to Chemistry :ugeek: which became the foundation of today's modern marvels and hence the work took off from there 8-) and you stand adamant on the face of reality and wishing it to be untrue :o :P :P

--It's true to an extent that after leading in the fields of sciences Muslims have become kinda laxed :cry: but then again India's nuclear program was engineered by a Muslim :o ,,so it's a matter of time before we start kicking again and lead the World :D :D ,Insha-Allah...


--There's no question as there are folks like these in the west who would grab any opportunity to pluck 'n' pick on a penny :evil: and make themselves known by spreading such West appeasing messages and books :lol: :evil:

 

[Nepali Pandit]

There are intelligent Pakistanis but most of them live outside of Pakistan.

 

[taul]

There are intelligent Pakistanis but most of them live outside of Pakistan.

--That goes for all Muslims around the world :( :| ...

 

[cmq07md]

Taul and Nepali pandit,
I do not agree with you that intelligent muslims live outside the muslim world in the west. One would see the same mix of intelligent and academically not so intelligent people everywhere in the world.
Taul , you seem to be too judgemental and need to broaden your horizon. It is not appropriate of you to say that there were not any Hindu scientist in earlier ages. Have you gone through whole history of Hinduism? Have you visited India? I've visited India and have been to many museums and I can say that scientists belonging to both Islam and Hinduism have contributed immensely to science. In fact, Sufi saints and poets and some Hindu 'devtaa' are being simultaneously revered by both the Hindus and Muslims. I think you miss the whole point of this thinker from Canada, he is not denying the contribution of Islam to the science, he is simply refuting the dominance of orthodox religious scholars. He is 100% right about the brainwashing of Indo-Pakistani diaspora and it has been happening here in the UK also where I live. It is a shame for our society where dubious people like Zaid Hamid are considered icons and nuclear physicist like Pervez hoodbhoy are considered 'indian/jew agents'.
Perhaps, you should consider 'Akbar-the great' an an example who wanted Islam to be an inclusive religion not an exclusive religion.
Every one who contributed to the science, were/are basically a human being first and then comes the religion. It is not their religion but their capability of being innovative and thinker makes them great.

 

[taul]

Taul and Nepali pandit,
I do not agree with you that intelligent muslims live outside the muslim world in the west. One would see the same mix of intelligent and academically not so intelligent people everywhere in the world.
Taul , you seem to be too judgemental and need to broaden your horizon. It is not appropriate of you to say that there were not any Hindu scientist in earlier ages. Have you gone through whole history of Hinduism? Have you visited India? I've visited India and have been to many museums and I can say that scientists belonging to both Islam and Hinduism have contributed immensely to science. In fact, Sufi saints and poets and some Hindu 'devtaa' are being simultaneously revered by both the Hindus and Muslims. I think you miss the whole point of this thinker from Canada, he is not denying the contribution of Islam to the science, he is simply refuting the dominance of orthodox religious scholars. He is 100% right about the brainwashing of Indo-Pakistani diaspora and it has been happening here in the UK also where I live. It is a shame for our society where dubious people like Zaid Hamid are considered icons and nuclear physicist like Pervez hoodbhoy are considered 'indian/jew agents'.
Perhaps, you should consider 'Akbar-the great' an an example who wanted Islam to be an inclusive religion not an exclusive religion.
Every one who contributed to the science, were/are basically a human being first and then comes the religion. It is not their religion but their capability of being innovative and thinker makes them great.

--I Disagree,I Believe i simply Inquired of middle ages Scientists :roll: :roll:

 

[cmq07md]

Even in middle ages, there were many scientists who were Hindu.
Very close to Delhi and Agra, the seats of Mughal Sultanate, is the capital city of State of Rajasthan called 'Jaipur'. The king of that state built an observatory for 'astronomy' and 'astrology' called "jantar mantar' which is considered quite a great scientific feat and he was contemporary of Mughal rulers.
Not whole of India was under Muslim rule. Southern part of India has produced many scientists too and was mostly ruled by Hindu kings.
To give you example of Akbar's inclusive Islam, 4 out of 9 members of his core team of ministers were Hindu. Raja todarmal who was a finance minister, did introduce new accounting and tax revenue collection system and which was widely used throughout the Mughal sultanate.
I do not want to be preacher, else I'll be labelled 'Indian/Hindu/Jew agent' immediately. I believe every religion has something good and it's followers contributed to the development of science throughout the entire history of human kind.
I consider all the religions preach good deeds and are equally good. No religion is superior to others.
It is not one's religious adherence but his/her good deeds that will make him/her respected in the world.

 

[taul]

@ cmq07md



--I Suppose you are confusing Architectural Designers with Scientists :roll: ,Anyhow as far as religion is concerned again your theory isn't true as Religion that Recognizes and Accepts God in it's true form holds an edge over all that have distorted view of God :geek:

--True,Good deeds will get you respect anywhere and Islam Emphasizes a lot on Morals and Rights of fellow human beings :geek:

--When in this world you die so hard in attaining the Knowledge that would serve purpose only to this world then why shy away from going an extra mile to seek the Truth and Acknowledging it :geek:

--Lil' note: Quaid-e-Azam even Appointed a dalit(Considered Untouchables in India) as the first speaker of the Parliament after Partition,so that goes on to show further how Equality plays so important role in Islam.

 

[cmq07md]

Thanks taul, i expected this reply from you. keep doing this work, you will be our next 'Zaid Hamid' and like other countless mullahs. Where did you undergo brainwashing sessions? Perhaps, it is our education system that makes you think like this that you belong to the best religion and hindus are inferior.
Islam is a great religion and it also teaches me to consider every religion with same respect. I do not carry that false perception that my religion is the best. There are many evils in Islamic society and instead one must acknowledge them and work towards removing them.
Jantar mantar is not an architecural site, it is an obervatory for astronomy which is a science. Anyways, architecture itself is also a science. Perhaps you might have 'true' islamic definition of science which puts architecture as something else!

 

[taul]

Thanks taul, i expected this reply from you. keep doing this work, you will be our next 'Zaid Hamid' and like other countless mullahs. Where did you undergo brainwashing sessions? Perhaps, it is our education system that makes you think like this that you belong to the best religion and hindus are inferior.
Islam is a great religion and it also teaches me to consider every religion with same respect. I do not carry that false perception that my religion is the best. There are many evils in Islamic society and instead one must acknowledge them and work towards removing them.
Jantar mantar is not an architecural site, it is an obervatory for astronomy which is a science. Anyways, architecture itself is also a science. Perhaps you might have 'true' islamic definition of science which puts architecture as something else!

--You are another victim of media hype as well as quite distant form reality :?: ..You can't even understand what is meant by Scientists :o ...lemme clarify a bit here for you "Innovations and Inventions" define them,now you may have whole dozen of produce after an invention has been carried out and they keep benefiting from the Prior source of Information that had been passed on to them by the True and Elite group of Scientists :geek:

--This is where you go wrong whoever says a thing about Islam,you're Ignorantly more than happy to be the first to raise your hand and brand him this and that :oops: ...You need to open up more in order for the reality to penetrate your mind rather than just let it pass over your trivial head.. :roll:

-- I Never said anything about Inferior :o all i said was on a Deviant and Wrong Path :ugeek: there's a hell of difference in these 2,hope you can atleast understand that :roll:

--Evils are not just in Muslim countries but in all countries and societies of the world, NOT in Islam as you acknowledged..Had there been a true Islamic Infrastructure this could've been easily tackled with and Probably removed... :ugeek:

 

[cmq07md]

Taul, you are truly an enlightened soul and forbearer of the best religion in the world,
When are you establishing true Islamic infrastructure?
Also, as my trivial head can't understand, would you please guide me whether I should use the internet and phone, watch movies, fly in a plane as these all were invented by humans who belonged to religions that preached deviant and wrong path to them?

 

[taul]

Taul, you are truly an enlightened soul and forbearer of the best religion in the world,
When are you establishing true Islamic infrastructure?
Also, as my trivial head can't understand, would you please guide me whether I should use the internet and phone, watch movies, fly in a plane as these all were invented by humans who belonged to religions that preached deviant and wrong path to them?

--Worry not,Islam is getting quite a quick pace all over the world and sooner than later it may lead to an Ideal Islamic Society and infrastructure, :ugeek: Insha-Allah..It will be established by High Morals observed and Practiced in this Religion and a domino effect will take care of the rest :)


--Your answer is quite simple,,We're chatting via internet 8-)

--You jump from topic to topic needlessly :roll: :lol: ,,Never ever have i mentioned not to use any of the inventions of people of other religions :oops: :oops: ..Sit back and relax before jumping to get back :)

 

[cmq07md]

Taul, but as these were invented by the people who belonged to deviant and wrong path preaching religions, wouldn't these creations be wrong and deviant??
Also, the NHS in UK offered me a post titled 'research scientist', but wouldn't it be wrong according to your 'true' definition of 'scientist' as I'm not going to innovate anything? Would it be 'unislamic' to join such a post which falsely makes me scientist according to your true 'islamic infrastructure'?
As I'm a trivial head, and you are 'enlightened scholar', I beg you to guide me.

 

[ramses2x1]

lol , hindus are like rats , they just grow and eat everything , u can compare them with bacteria as well , they grow on something . destroy and move on .. they reflect a mentality , india in the history has been a warmonger, ( dont have to go into details , they talk about these historical wars on massive scale all the time ).. in the recent history they encouraged the killing of millions, at present they still following the same ...

they r funny , just to show the world they are as great as chinese they make false claims , india is not comparable to china , in any ways.

they live in a fools paradise , they have no contribution in the history of mankind , their past and present is dark, future seems even darker ..

 

[taul]

Taul, but as these were invented by the people who belonged to deviant and wrong path preaching religions, wouldn't these creations be wrong and deviant??
Also, the NHS in UK offered me a post titled 'research scientist', but wouldn't it be wrong according to your 'true' definition of 'scientist' as I'm not going to innovate anything? Would it be 'unislamic' to join such a post which falsely makes me scientist according to your true 'islamic infrastructure'?
As I'm a trivial head, and you are 'enlightened scholar', I beg you to guide me.

--You pose same question :?: :!: ...is there something i'm missing here :roll: :roll:

--Deviant and on a wrong path in relation to God,True!!!

--As per earlier Posts and discussions Muslim Scientists were being sought out,and fittingly a reply was given and then asked about any Hindu Scientist??Just like Jaber-ibn-hayyan who is considered as "Father of Chemistry",,,
Ibn Sina (Avicenna) known for his medical Research and known as "Father of Modern Medicine" just to name few Muslim Scientists for your Trivial mind to understand the difference 8-) :ugeek:and they go way back in Earlier times or middle ages :) unlike your astronomers and architectural Designers who sprung up couple of hundreds years back :)

--As per your job inquiry you should accept it and then Try simply not tagging along :( instead use your trivial head to be the Inventor of some new things of which the existing World is Unaware of :) ...See in a lot of USA hospitals you get to have these jobs under the title "Research" and any med or Phd student can get it to have some extra savings rather than for the true purpose of it :roll: :evil:

 

[vinis98]

Taul bahi check this out ;) & please don't get :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulocM00FzEw

 

[taul]

:o :o --Algebra was invented by Mohammad bin Musa Al-khwarismi in 9th century whose work was further processed by Abraham bar Hiyya Ha-Nasi in the 12th century...and later on India mathematician Bh?skara II (11141185) gave the first solution of quadratic equation :P

 

[vinis98]

All My Proud Paki Brothers Should See This!-India
[videoe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCAwqvhLDvw

 

[vinis98]

:o :o --Algebra was invented by Mohammad bin Musa Al-khwarismi in 9th century whose work was further processed by Abraham bar Hiyya Ha-Nasi in the 12th century...and later on India mathematician Bh?skara II (11141185) gave the first solution of quadratic equation :P

taul bhai google this ;)
Albert Einstein, American scientist:
"We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[taul]

--That's Quite strange :o ,I Bet he made that in reference to Red-indians :lol: :lol: :lol: