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Philosophy, Economy, Law, History, Technology, Risk, Trade, Debt, Credit and much more summed up in
- Thread starter AsifAmeer
- Start date
Ali_Economist
Citizen
I think you are found of Nassim talib
jeaybhutto
Senator (1k+ posts)
waisay tau he also teaches at NYU :)
I like Soros too.. along with Michael Hudson.
Pakistani92
Senator (1k+ posts)
great share man
If we read the very first surah in the quran, it sums up the quran as to what it is and what is all about and that is how it is named ie the key to the rest of the quran ie AL FAATIHA. However if we read the 2nd surah, it starts explaining what the reason are for breaking down of a human community, ths is why it si names AL BAQRAH. Baqrah does not mean cow but sacred cow ie religion. Religion is taken as fundamental problem because it is used as tool to replace deen. Once deen is taken out of its proper place and place is replaced with an ideology of divdie and rule then you can never come together on basis of that ideology. It is because the mechanism that is used for dividing cannot be used for uniting. Religion is mechanism for dividing that is why islam is not a religion and people who promote religion are stupid to think that they can use religion as force for unity.
If pakistanis want unity in the country the quran tells us to get rid of mullahs and their followers as well as their backers the ruling elite. After all mullahs are agents of rulers who are in turn agents of bankers. Bankers want politicians and mullahs to keep people confused so that they remain in control of things the while masses are fighting with each other over useless issues.
Masses must realise what is going on and throw out this system and replace it with proper islam.
1)aql and revelation are two different things.
2)aql is an activity of the brain ie a process for processing information or data and revelation is information or data needing processing.
3)Aql is needed for organising and making sense of data to understand it.
4)where does aql come from ie sense of making sense of things? Life experiences through trials and error.
5)The more experienced you are in making sense of things the better is your judgement about things. It is because then you know what information is available and what is not at any given point in time and how to get information and how to put it together and what it means after you have organised it in your head.
6)The quran is nothing more than information that needs to be understood by brain as explained for its purpose and used. So aql has to be there to make sense of the quran and use it accordingly.
7)Brain only works on basis of language that it uses for communication just like a computer.
8)The quran is mere a jumble of words and words have attached to them certain concepts and concepts unless put together for a purpose have no use. So to understand the quran one must get familiar with concepts of words used in the quran and then try and see how these concepts make better sense by combining them in various ways that bring out the context of the words in the verses and verses in the surahs and surahs in relation to each other etc etc.
9)Once the quran is reasonably understood then all other information in other islamic literature and from other people can be taken on that basis as it makes better sense.
10)It is a very very hard work which most people are not bothered to undertake. What people do is they just have some basic make beliefs ideas and take them for granted and call it islam. There are not many people with in depth understanding of the divine revelation. This is why the world is in the state that it is. Where most people are trying to copyright knowledge as intellectual property and each person is trying to fool the next person, the learning process is a difficult one and that is why peace in world, progress and prosperity is very very slow process. Parties with vested interests are a big obstacle in the way of peace, progress and prosperity of humanity. However as we all can see we are making some progress but we could do much better if obstacles were removed from the path of knowledge.
For more please see my other posts. Some may be found difficult to read because they are written in roman urdu.
If pakistanis want unity in the country the quran tells us to get rid of mullahs and their followers as well as their backers the ruling elite. After all mullahs are agents of rulers who are in turn agents of bankers. Bankers want politicians and mullahs to keep people confused so that they remain in control of things the while masses are fighting with each other over useless issues.
Masses must realise what is going on and throw out this system and replace it with proper islam.
1)aql and revelation are two different things.
2)aql is an activity of the brain ie a process for processing information or data and revelation is information or data needing processing.
3)Aql is needed for organising and making sense of data to understand it.
4)where does aql come from ie sense of making sense of things? Life experiences through trials and error.
5)The more experienced you are in making sense of things the better is your judgement about things. It is because then you know what information is available and what is not at any given point in time and how to get information and how to put it together and what it means after you have organised it in your head.
6)The quran is nothing more than information that needs to be understood by brain as explained for its purpose and used. So aql has to be there to make sense of the quran and use it accordingly.
7)Brain only works on basis of language that it uses for communication just like a computer.
8)The quran is mere a jumble of words and words have attached to them certain concepts and concepts unless put together for a purpose have no use. So to understand the quran one must get familiar with concepts of words used in the quran and then try and see how these concepts make better sense by combining them in various ways that bring out the context of the words in the verses and verses in the surahs and surahs in relation to each other etc etc.
9)Once the quran is reasonably understood then all other information in other islamic literature and from other people can be taken on that basis as it makes better sense.
10)It is a very very hard work which most people are not bothered to undertake. What people do is they just have some basic make beliefs ideas and take them for granted and call it islam. There are not many people with in depth understanding of the divine revelation. This is why the world is in the state that it is. Where most people are trying to copyright knowledge as intellectual property and each person is trying to fool the next person, the learning process is a difficult one and that is why peace in world, progress and prosperity is very very slow process. Parties with vested interests are a big obstacle in the way of peace, progress and prosperity of humanity. However as we all can see we are making some progress but we could do much better if obstacles were removed from the path of knowledge.
For more please see my other posts. Some may be found difficult to read because they are written in roman urdu.
Some very interesting comments on religious interpretation. And they do make sense.
What you are saying is that all forms of information is noise and has to be sorted out. I think Academia calls it the Information Theory. So yeah... you need 'consciousness' to sort out information.
Here's how I see it - I call it the 'Law of Proportionality'. Anything, any design, any concept that has been verified to be working, will render itself dysfunctional when the system is scaled up. More than size, it has to do with complexity non-linear downside risk manfunction. And since complex systems are by nature nonlinear in outcome, you only have correlations. Causation is just noise.
To put this into the application of religion or any ideology(science, economics, medicine, etc), if an idea is centralized or state endorsed, that it will lead to multiplication of errors and destabilize the system.
Now if you look at the social design of Islamic societies, I feel Masjids were places for more than worship. If these places had been used more than as place of worship , weddings and janaza, decisions could have been localized and decentralized. Just like what Seneca said "City states conduct commerce. Nation States conduct wars". Our own history bears Kerbala as a testament to this reality.
What you are saying is that all forms of information is noise and has to be sorted out. I think Academia calls it the Information Theory. So yeah... you need 'consciousness' to sort out information.
Here's how I see it - I call it the 'Law of Proportionality'. Anything, any design, any concept that has been verified to be working, will render itself dysfunctional when the system is scaled up. More than size, it has to do with complexity non-linear downside risk manfunction. And since complex systems are by nature nonlinear in outcome, you only have correlations. Causation is just noise.
To put this into the application of religion or any ideology(science, economics, medicine, etc), if an idea is centralized or state endorsed, that it will lead to multiplication of errors and destabilize the system.
Now if you look at the social design of Islamic societies, I feel Masjids were places for more than worship. If these places had been used more than as place of worship , weddings and janaza, decisions could have been localized and decentralized. Just like what Seneca said "City states conduct commerce. Nation States conduct wars". Our own history bears Kerbala as a testament to this reality.
Dear AsifAmeer, islam as told in the quran is a comprehensive ideology with feedback loop for monitoring and in time correction of any error to keep the whole set up going continuously. However the human element is the one that either make it a success or a failure. The prophetic set up was great but after him and his companions new generations were not as vigilant as they ought to be and that is what brought down khilaafah. They did not manage the expansion very well but kept on expanding without taking care of things within the borders of the islamic state and the state got in far too many people that it could not properly look after and as result soon the state was swamped with new comers. This mistake of earlier generations cost ummah very dearly that we are paying for even today. Islam does not mind expansion but it does not allow such fast expansion like an explosion if you like.
The failing of islamic state demoralised each muslim generation that came after more and more as they neglected the actual message of the quran and started doing things as they liked. In order to reverse this situation muslims now need to refocus on the message of the quran as an ummah and start building up to that change that the world is waiting for. I think this time islamic state is not going to fail that easily or quickly because people will be more focused on causes that could cause failures. As they say once bitten twice shy.
The idea that idea of islamic state failed already so it is not going to make a come back is total nonsense. The reason is it was not failure of ideology but its people in going by it. Today people are more aware and have better equipped themselves or are better prepared so if a good ideology was before them to follow it will be a win win situation. The later generations have a bigger opportunity in learning from their past generations successes and failures.
The problem as I see it is that our ruling community is looking for islam that fits secularism and our mullah community is looking for islam that fits their religious idea. All need to look at islam as a proper ideology on its own. Not only that but after knowing what islam really is they need to work on ideas that help design a mechanism for change from religion to islam and from secularism to islam possibly smoothly.
regards and all the best.
The failing of islamic state demoralised each muslim generation that came after more and more as they neglected the actual message of the quran and started doing things as they liked. In order to reverse this situation muslims now need to refocus on the message of the quran as an ummah and start building up to that change that the world is waiting for. I think this time islamic state is not going to fail that easily or quickly because people will be more focused on causes that could cause failures. As they say once bitten twice shy.
The idea that idea of islamic state failed already so it is not going to make a come back is total nonsense. The reason is it was not failure of ideology but its people in going by it. Today people are more aware and have better equipped themselves or are better prepared so if a good ideology was before them to follow it will be a win win situation. The later generations have a bigger opportunity in learning from their past generations successes and failures.
The problem as I see it is that our ruling community is looking for islam that fits secularism and our mullah community is looking for islam that fits their religious idea. All need to look at islam as a proper ideology on its own. Not only that but after knowing what islam really is they need to work on ideas that help design a mechanism for change from religion to islam and from secularism to islam possibly smoothly.
regards and all the best.
