My Response to Simon's second e-mail: Only first half of his e-mail answered
What accusations? That Muhammad is not the prophet of YHWH? Indeed that is so. You live in your own dream world and a world of shadows. What I said is both accurate and true. Muhammad is a prophet of Allah and not the God of Israel. Dont waste my time with your nonsense with which you think you will impress others and not here.
Rabbi, like I said, I will discuss with you your accusations and deeper issues, first thing first let me see if you are capable of answering my questions on the nature and Concept of God in the Bible.
Deal with one issue first, Concept of God in Bible. What I see you are struggling to deal with this simple issue, how can you prove your allegations and deals with deeper and complicated issues? What I can see is a person trying to use abusive language against Islam, Muslims, Prophet of Islam and the Holy Quran.
Of course since you could not respond to the rest.
Why did you not respond to the following, is it because it was true?
Now to your questions I think as usual you are trying beat up a straw man. Whether my God exists or not your god for sure is a non existent entity since Muhammad prior to declaring his prophethood for Allah worshipped Statues in the Kabah and was also an uncircumcised man. You may be ignorant but his father Abdullah was a regular worshipper in the Kabah. Furthermore I have no reason to object Muhammad being a prophet of Allah. That is fine because Allah is not my God but yours and Muhammad is your saviour and not mine. I do not go to dead people to ask for Salvation.
I have replied to your questions, those were worth responding, I am not compelled to respond to your attacks on Prophet Muhammad SAW and the Holy Quran. Rabbi, let me assure you, I know the answers to each and every accusations, you may have against Islam and the Holy Quran.
We know Allah SWT is not your God you left Islam, what is new?
Prophet Muhammad Saw was circumcised answer is ready and would be given in the next e-mail, as I have written later.
Didnt you say, there is only one God, partial answer that Allah SWT is mentioned in the earlier scripture is given below, but like I have said repeatedly, Bible as a divine book is corrupted, it is neither a good book of history. You got impossible hurdles to cross, how could you claim Allah SWT was not the name in previous scriptures when you cannot prove authenticity of your scriptures? I am proving it and will continue to prove that Bible is highly corrupt book, it cannot be Word of God in its present form, simply it is too inconsistent, contains errors and contradictions.
Who is using straw man argument?
It is you who are asking me questions based on proven corrupted books. I can simply answer, yes Allah SWT name was mentioned in all the true scriptures revealed to true Prophets of God. Do you have those true scriptures anywhere? Rabbi, you are not going to succeed in your arguments.
Instead of attacking the Holy Quran or Islam, first establish the authenticity of the Bible. Can you do that? I give you an open challenge if you can prove me the authenticity of the Bible, OT or NT I will discuss with you each and every accusation about the Holy Quran.
Unless you do that, you cannot compare the Holy Quran with what you got as Bible. Forget about its authenticity, you wouldnt be able to prove which version of the Bible is the correct version and true revelation of God. If you cannot prove it, then what value your criticism or allegations have against the Holy Quran?
My response:
Is jesus your uncle that you keep calling him that name? Indeed Yahushua visited the earth in human flesh relinquishing his divine nature. That is too much for you to grasp with your hypocrite lying tongue. I know who you are.
Phil 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Messiah vSwhy:
6 Who, being in the form of Elohim, thought it not robbery to be equal with Elohim:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient to death, even the death of the execution stake.
Even the people there the Yahud knew what was declared earlier by Yahushua.
1-Jesus is not my uncle he is a mighty Messenger of Allah SWT for me and other Muslims.
2-But for you he surely is your father, as you call him god.
3-Why are you enraged Rabbi? It is your failure to make the concept of God clear from the Bible. So why blame others for your failures? Try again, this time no confused answers.
4-If yahushua relinquished his divine nature, who did he relinquished to? Who was ruling the Universe when Yahushua was a mere man like you and I? Please dont make me ask the same questions again and again.
What version of Bible are you using for Phil2 ?
New Kings James version:
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
New International Version:
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death even death on a cross!
Rabbi, both of the versions dont have Jesus as Elohim.
Is this the word of God? Can you authenticate the Books of Philippians, when it was written and by whom?
Was it revealed to Jesus? Or which Prophet received these revelations, and when?
Now if you look at the wordings of these alleged revelations, it does not make any sense whatsoever. Why God in the shape of God would consider equality with God? Why would the same entity consider equality with himself? And how come he can use it for his advantage, when he himself is god? Unless he knew he was not the same entity.
Rabbi, please try again.
- Let me ask you questions on the same verse, about Jesus death on the Cross. Jesus was aware that he is god wasnt he?
-Wasnt he according to this verse presenting himself on the cross to die?
Dont worry I have given the answer to both questions later in the piece.
Matt 27:43 He trusted in Elohim; let him deliver Him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of Elohim.
I hope the above text from the Bible answers what I would have said in words.
No Rabbi it didnt clear the confusion, you have actually made matter worse for yourself. More muddle more confusion. I told you that what Bible gives you.
Lets look at the passage from Mathews 27:43, King James Version,
43He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
Once again it does not match with your rendering. But not to worry point is made, no two bibles are the same, I let you proof your version is the correct one.
Matt 27:43 has made matters even worse yet again. This verse is indicating allegedly Jesus said; I am the Son of God. But who is discussing here? Who is delivering, who is delivered and to whom?
And look at the difference between the two quotations apart from the use of Elohim by you. Your quotations (let him deliver Him now) trying to portray the one delivered is God by using capital H in Him, while the quotations from KJV versions(let him deliver him now) does not indicate it is god we are dealing here. At least the KJV version is consistent, in the next sentence, your quotation says if he will have him. After using capital for God you gone back to using smaller h for him. For whom are you using small h in him? And again you used small him for Jesus at the last part. It was Jesus who allegedly said, I am the Son of God or Elohim according to you? If Jesus was god, why didnt your quotation use capital H for him? Your quotation is a real muddle like everything you have produced until now.
There is no doubt, two distinct personalities in Jesus (whoever written Mathew) own words, allegedly, he says categorically I am son of God, not God.
I told you very clearly without any agendas that Yahushua is both God and the Son of God. A father can be both a Father and a son in a human relationship. In this context Yahushua is the Son of God because he was begotten by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit (Mother) and The Father in heaven see Luke 1:35. The Holy Spirit is the feminine side of God for your info. Also note that the only thing that was borrowed from Miriam was her womb the rest came from heaven.
Rabbi, what a mess, in your first e-mail you said, no trinity, and now you saying, he was begotten in the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.
Now let me summarise it,
1- God, 2- Son of God 3- Holy Spirit
It sure looks like trinity to me, what say you?
What came from Heaven in the borrowed womb of Mary?
Your god has a feminine side to him? And his masculine side is what?
Does he have third or more sides to him?
But whatever you posted everything is pointed first two and now three different entities. I asked you at the start. Is God consists three godheads? But you denied it, now you are proving it.
In human relation a father can be a son as well, sure, but he cannot be his own son. He is son of his father, while his son is his son not his father. They are two separate entities. His father is the granddad of his son. Get your prospective right.
You pretend to know not while your document the Quran also confirms that Miriam was a virgin and the child was a Holy One which your translators cleverly translate as pure.
The Quran said the following:
Sura 19:19 He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy." In some other translations of the Quran it says holy which the Muslims dispute.
First of all, like I said I am not discussing the Holy Quran with you, not yet anyway. You left the Holy Quran didnt you? So forget about it why are you so hooked on it? You find the truth in Bible didnt you? So why cant you show and prove that truth to me?
I have not seen one intelligent argument from you on the concept of God from the Bible.
I am going to answer your question about the Holy Quran but dont make it a habit.
First of all Translations of the Holy Quran are words of human, we dont consider the translations as the Word of God. In translations and in Tafsirs (explanations), the writers use their understanding of the Holy Quran.
قَالَ إِنَّمَا أَنَا رَسُولُ رَبِّكِ لِأَهَبَ لَكِ غُلَامًا زَكِيًّا (19:19)
19:19 [The angel] answered: "I' am but a messenger of thy Sustainer, [who says,] `I shall bestow upon thee the gift of a son endowed with purity.
The Holy Quran says, Ghulaman Zakia. Zaki is translated as Purity in this verse, fine, but its other meaning is innocent. Jesus is called Zaki not because he was holy but because Mariam As was chaste. And the Holy Quran dispelled the accusations laid on her and on Jesus by the Jews. But what a shame you say you too are a Jewish Rabbi.
Rabbi you have another huge problem to prove your unfounded accusations; let me give you another verse of the Holy Quran this verse relate to the story of Prophet Moses, who is given the law you follow, if you were truly a Jewish Rabbi.
فَانطَلَقَا حَتَّى إِذَا لَقِيَا غُلَامًا فَقَتَلَهُ قَالَ أَقَتَلْتَ نَفْسًا زَكِيَّةً بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ لَّقَدْ جِئْتَ شَيْئًا نُّكْرًا (18:74)
18:74 And so the two went on, till, when they met a young man, [the sage] slew him -(whereupon Moses] exclaimed: "Hast thou slain an innocent human being without [his having taken] another man's life? Indeed, thou hast done a terrible thing!"
Rabbi, the same word Zakia is used for the boy who was slain. Here it is translated as innocent.
Do you think this boy was also holy?
I promise you I will respond to your questions about Prophet Muhammad SAW and about the Holy Quran on two conditions;
- You can prove the concept of God from the Bible in clear-cut and precise manner, with out repeating yourself, or showing contradicting material from the Bible.
-You can prove the authenticity of the Bible both NT and OT with historical proofs that they were revealed to the Prophets.
Unless you can prove the authenticity of Bible and prove it is true Word of God, whatever you produce from it, is of no value.
If it has no value you cannot abuse the Holy Quran based on unreliable book. Dont take my word for it your beloved Bible says it.
Jeremiah 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
By the way, you associated the Holy Spirit to Mother or Mary, to hide your earlier assertion you do not believe in Trinity.
I have another question, who brought the revelations to people who have written different books of NT at least 150+ years after Jesus left this earth?
No I do not hedge my bets and by the way you are not the king of the Universe that I would need to hedge my bet by believing in several things. Laughing you only expose yourself.
Rabbi, it was a matter of speech, you hedge your bets, meaning you try to cover your embarrassment by adding the son of god idea and now reluctantly you have added Holy Ghost idea too, completing the trinity.
Your saviour Muhammad has been dead since 632 CE and has not arisen to help any of his followers and neither will he in the future. The dead do not respond only the living do.
As for my Saviour he rose from the dead three days after his death and went up to heaven which even the Quran confirms trying to make itself a holy document which it is not.
Yes, Muhammad SAW passed away from this earth but left us with the Divine Book the Holy Quran. I have already told you, the Holy Quran is there for our guidance until the Day of the Judgement. We also have the Sunnah of Prophet to guide us in every aspect of life, until the Day of the Judgement. Islam is a complete Religion, Alhamdullilah.
Livings answers what exactly? Are you talking about the living Jesus? Shall I remind you something? Did he help himself when he was facing the difficulty, while still on this earth? Who did he call for help?
You meant the one who couldnt do anything about his own troubles in his hour of need according to the Bible and shouted Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani ". He would help you?
This also answers the question you have asked repeatedly about the name of Allah SWT in your first e-mail. So what is this word Eli Eli?
Like I said, the difference of languages, pronunciations and accents is going to make the difference off course.
Let me also show you more unreliability of the Bible. Lets look at this verse in different versions of Bible.
1- "Eli Eli lama sabachthani" KJV, NKJV, NASB,
2- "Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani." NIV
3- "Eli Eli lema sabachthani." NRSV
Did you notice Rabbi, Christians could not even agree on supposed word of God? So, which one is the Word of God, out of three?
Tell me, whom Jesus was calling (according to your own Bible) in his hour of need? And you think he can help you in your hour of need?
Why doesnt he help the Christians to sort out the Bible and tell the world what Gospel did he preach? Where can we find the Gospel of Jesus? Not Gospels according to. The writers of NT didnt even write their names on the supposed Gospels written by them. What according to means? Doesnt it shows a third party (could be parties) writing rather than the person it is attributed to.
Secondly you are not truthful in above paragraph. The Holy Quran does not support the idea of Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead. Far from it, lets have a look at the evidence from the Holy Quran.
4:157 and their boast, "Behold, we have slain the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, [who claimed to be] an apostle of God!" However, they did not slay him, and neither did they crucify him, but it only seemed to them [as if it had been] so; (Partial verse quoted).
Contrary to your baseless allegations Holy Quran denies that Jews slain or killed the Christ Jesus an apostle of God. It also denies that he as was crucified.
Rabbi, why are you untruthful? Quran not only refutes the Bible on the crucifixion of Jesus As but it also decreed in more than one place that Bible had been corrupted. If he As was neither killed nor crucified there is absolutely no question of him As rising from the dead.
You got major problems on your hands I told you I can answer all your questions, I can hold my promises, but you are lost. I give you one challenge the Holy Quran says that Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. Your challenge is can you prove from any historical source out side your Bible that Jesus As was crucified? The History supports the Holy Quran; history is completely quite on the crucifixion of Jesus, except the Gospels, which were written by unknown people at least 150+ years after Jesus. There is absolutely no record in the history for any of current Gospels until very late in the 2nd century.
As I said in my last e-mail we see them as dual powers and yet both powers have communication with each other as the Father and the Son. I dont need to use your words as they do not reflect what I know to be true. You want to call them personalities that is your problem not mine. You are forcing words in my mouth and it is not necessary. Why? I am not falling into your trap Satans seed?
Rabbi, problems are all your making, you made a categorical statement God is one, and you are repeatedly contradicting your own categorical statement.
Well dual powers still mean two different entities. You are proving what I said, by mentioning both powers have communication with each other as Father and Son. Voila, you accept, only two different entities could have communications with each other. If your god(s) were one he wouldnt be communicating with himself, hopeless.
Ps 2:7 (AFNHSS) I will declare the decree: hwhy has said to me, You are my Son; this day have I brought you forth.
Now I am not going to waste my time to quote from other versions of the Bible.
You are once again trying to prove God has brought forth his son, meaning Jesus is Son of God (according to your submission, but the reality is different which I have dealt later). According to the verse, God said to Jesus (your assertion) who is quoting he has been called son by God.
How does it solve your problems? It exacerbates them.
I think you are going in circle or trying to attack the Holy Quran and Prophet Muhammad SAW, which like I said, I will answer provided you fulfil two conditions I have listed earlier.
I have given you the example of an unreliable witness. Bible is nothing but an unreliable witness, it is not word of god, it is not even the correct history, neither it is words or actions of Jesus As, but tales written at least 150+ years after Jesus, by people who were not eye witnesses, never knew Jesus personally, never ever meet him.
Can you prove otherwise, to establish the authenticity and credibility of the collection of the books you call Bible?
I am going to move the arguments forward, considering you have not given any adequate answers to explain the concept of God in precise manner.
According to your evidence displayed above, Jesus claimed he is called son by God.
Let us see what evidence Bible has on the subject of Son of God?
1- Luke 3:38: Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
2- Thus- saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22
3- I am father to Israel and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN," JEREMIAH 31:9
4-I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Psalms 2:7
5- Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him. Psalms 2:12
6- "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS OF GOD. ' ROMANS 8:14
There are many Sons of God in the Bible, Israel is called first born which is group of people rather than a person, then Ephraim was also called Firstborn, talk about absurdity, there is another begotten son of god beside Jesus, this time it is David. He is called Son again in verse 12.
Now let me enlighten you a little, in Psalm 2:12 where Kiss the Son is written above, for this passage Septuagint and vulgate read Embrace discipline, and Targum reads Receive instructions. Therefore, the different sources of the text in the Bible are proving that it is not talking about the son at all. Secondly, where it says, lest He be angry above, the Septuagint reads lest the Lord be angry Do you understand it? Bible cannot be relied upon, which out of three are the actual words received as divine revelations? Plus if we look at alternative text from the sources, it shows the verse is not about the alleged Son of God at all.
Anyway, you have proven your true nature by quoting Psalms 2:7 as a proof for Jesus but it is actually attributed to David and not Jesus. What a shame, one has to learn the art of self-defeating arguments from you. You should be rest assured cleverness always backfires against intelligent and knowledgeable people. You have provided the proof yourself that David is called a begotten son too by God.
The more disturbing one for you out of the above quotations is all those who are led by the Spirit of God, they are Sons of God. We know it is claimed that NT writers wrote books of NT on the guidance of or inspired by the Holy Spirit, therefore, according to Romans 8:14 all of them were Sons of God.
You repeatedly asked temptation by Satan, here is your answer.
Mark 1:12 Immediately the Spirit drove Him into the wilderness. 13 And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him.
Your really think Real God could be tempted by Satan, created by Him? And the Angels, also created by Him, ministered God? Did you notice the (Holy) Spirit was with the Jesus and drove him in to wilderness? Does it mean the (Holy) Spirit is superior to God according to this verse in Bible?
You also mentioned the Holy Spirit (mother/Mary) help conceive Jesus, but he As was not the only one in the Bible conceived this way.
Luke 1:15 and he (John the Baptist) shall be filled with the HOLY GHOST, even from his mother's womb.
I can give you plenty of verses where people were filled with Holy Ghost, but no need to waste time. What was filled from Heaven in the womb of mother of John the Baptist?
Let me turn my attention to Genesis and part of the story of Abraham in the Bible, something you had pointed out repeatedly.
This particular story starts at Genesis 18:1
1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
Let me point out how confusing the Bible is. First verse starts with The Lord appeared unto him but next verse say three men appeared to Abraham, not The Lord.
-Abraham bowed to them, Bible does not say, he bowed to The God.
Is bowing to the Angels allowed in Christianity or Judaism?
-Another absurdity in verse 2, three men stood by him. We take meaning from stood by him as someone standing next to another person i.e. very near. The other meaning, which is not applicable here, is to support someone. But further the verse says Abraham ran from the tent door to meet them. They were not really close by Abraham and were not standing by him. Otherwise, he does not need to run to meet them.
- It is apparent Abraham thought The Lord could be tired He needed the rest. God tired and needs rest?
- In 5 Abraham is still talking to a singular God? Why the response came from all three of them? It seems the other two were equating themselves with the God by replying as a group.
-They all were tired, they needed the bread, needed to wash their hands and feet, comfort. If you say, one was Lord appearing as Man to Abraham, then the other two must be Angels?
Therefore, is it right to conclude that the Bible proves, not only god as man is deprived of all powers but also the Angels have no powers when they appear as men?
I fast forward,
9And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
10And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
-Once again they speak in unison, but in 10, h is not written in bold as is practice in the Bible for God, was it God speaking? If it was why it was not written as He?
-God has to return to Abraham according to the time of life, for Sarah to have a son?
12Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
13And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
14Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
15Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.
- V12 Says Sarah laughed, but when enquired by God, she lied because of fear. Fear of God should have been the other way around, she should have been afraid to lie in fear of God and fear of wrath of God.
- Notice in 14 once again, the emphasis is changed, now it is the LORD, no more small letters. While in the previous verse him was used.
Once again God is stressing He has to return according to the time of life for Sarah to have a son. Why does God have to return, what happened to all Powerful, omnipresent God?
- But the absurdity do not stop there in 15 after Sarah denied laughing, he is used for God once again. It seems writers of the Bible were really confused.
20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
-God heard a great cry from Sodom and Gomorrah of their grievous sin. Does God need great cry from people to know what is happening in the world?
- The God of the Bible has to check personally if the cry came to him is true, and people have actually done of what the cry alleges, otherwise he would know?
Rabbi, what am I seeing here? You had been pushing me to read Genesis, didnt it occur to you, a person, who has written to you after seeing your videos. Would he mail you, unless he has the knowledge to deal with your arguments.
Bible is proving that the God of the bible is not Omnipresent, it is not all knowing, it gets tired, needs food and rest, have to come back to fulfil a little promise like someone having a son.
22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
Suffice to say, nowhere in Genesis 18, even once the God is addressed as "Son of God"; as you are trying to establish, nor he said, he is not the real God, and the real God is in the heaven as father. Abraham As knew very well he is in front of the God (according to your bible); I will explore it further in next mail.
I tell you what is the difference between the God of the Bible and Allah SWT in the Holy Quran. The God in the Bible came to check personally if the cry from Sodom and Gomorrah were correct, otherwise He would know it. But in the Holy Quran Allah SWT Decreed, not a leaf falls but He knows it (6:59). And that He SWT Knows what is in our hearts, thy Sustainer knows all that their hearts conceal( 27:74). Tell me which God appear Omnipresent, All Powerful to you?
Genesis 19 starts with two Angels appearing in Sodom, the God is not amongst them.
1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground. 2 And he said, Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servants house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way.
Obviously Lot recognised the two Angels instantaneously, and bowed to them. Once again showing bowing to Angels is norm in the Bible. Again Angels need rest, washing feet, food etc. But if Lot didnt recognise them, why did he bow to them?
3 But he insisted strongly; so they turned in to him and entered his house. Then he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
Let see if your (Christians) arguments that God appearing as a man without the power of God holds water?
11 And they struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they became weary trying to find the door.
It seems even though the Angels appeared as men , eat food, rested, like men do, showing they had human needs. But in V11 they showed their powers as Angels and struck the men at the doorway with blindness. After all it is proven that Angels didnt loose their powers at all while appearing as men.
The most crucial question is why would God loose his power if He did actually appeared as a man? Either at different places in the Bible over the years and generations or as Jesus Christ as claimed by the Christians?
13For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
Once again Angels showing they have their powers intact.
Lord, which appeared to Abraham was gone, only two angels, presumably the same two angels appeared to Abraham with God were in Sodom. They claimed, they are sent by LORD God.
18And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my LORD:
Knowing the absurdity of the Bible, all of a sudden, the LORD is used by Lot even though the addressees are still the two angels.
I think it is enough for time being, I hope this was a good lesson from Genesis. I will continue to explore in Genesis the story of Abraham As and his sojourns with God.
Rabbi I am providing all the evidence from the Bible instead of you proving me the concept of God from the Bible?
Rabbi I am more than capable to take the discussions to very high levels indeed, provided you are capable to engage. I can give you well researched history of the Bible. Thats why I said, prove the authenticity of the Bible first and foremost.
Once you do that I will respond to your allegations against the Holy Quran. You should take me on my offer, it should be piece of cake for you to prove the concept of God from the Bible. Shouldnt it be?
I hope you in your next e-mail you wouldnt struggle with a very basic concept of God in the Bible. I can tell you it would be no shame if you couldnt prove the concept of God from the Bible, you wouldnt be the first or last. I have tried some very high and mighty, but still no joy, yet. It seems the followers of Bible cannot even prove the concept of the God in the Bible.
If you are going to answer my questions then why did you not answer my first question about Muhammad prior to declaring his prophethood for Allah worshipped Statues in the Kabah and was also an uncircumcised man clearly an idolater? Can you explain why he was an idolater?
I am writing a separate e-mail for these two allegations. These will be the last of your allegations about Prophet Muhammad SAW I would answer. Like I said, dont make it a habit, you got a daunting task to defend Bible and its authenticity and concept of God in the Bible.
--- What is it going to be Altaf, Rabbi or something else? Make up your mind devil worshipper.
Well, Altaf is your name, you are Mr. Altaf arent you? And you say you are a Rabbi? Even though I dont think you are a Rabbi, it is a title you have bestowed upon yourself, but according to your claim it is your title. So what is wrong if I address you either way? I prefer Mr. Altaf, because you are not really a Rabbi.
You got the guts to do that or do you like to hide behind your computer so the police dont arrest you?
Rabbi, Why would I be worried? Answering your allegations is no crime. Do you really think I would be worried about it? Honestly, you should act more maturely.
Secondly, if what I have seen on youtube videos, and if allegations levelled against you by few, including your wife, are true. After reading the book, you have decided to have two wives at once being a Christian Jew or Jew for Jesus whichever you prefer to call yourself. You could be in deep legal troubles in the West. I hope you have not already done it. Have you already register your second marriage while still married to your first wife?
My reply:
So before we continue the debate you will have to prove what you just said. Please show me where Allah suggested we worship him? I need quote from the Torah of Moses and not the Quran which came 2200 years after the Torah. You may not believe that our creator is not called Allah but that belief makes no earth shaking difference to me or my life. You may not believe it rains but that does not mean it does not rain. You have swallowed a camel yet you pretend to know all about religions. OK I am waiting to discuss the point with you before I move on. I am not going to address an of your other e-mail until we have addressed this one question and when I am satisfied that we have addressed it then we will continue. Now tell me how does this feel when I look down upon you? This is why I warned you earlier not to treat me like a child and you being the adult that you are not.
Rabbi, let me poke holes in your above statement.
1- You yourself said, Allah SWT is not mentioned in your Bible, so how do you want me to prove it to you from Torah?
2- Allah SWT mentioned it in the Holy Quran so, logically I could prove it to you from the Holy Quran. But you dont want that, so it is a ridiculous argument you are putting across.
3- Secondly, I follow the Holy Quran, not Torah, which I believe is corrupted. I have already shown you internal evidence from the Bible.
4- You said, show me in Torah, which was revealed 2200 before the Holy Quran. Good, now, prove yourself, show me the original torah, which was revealed 3700 years ago. Do you have a copy of it?
5- So here you have it, I can successfully show you that Allah SWT said in the Holy Quran that He SWT send revelations to Prophets before Prophet SAW. Abraham, Moses, Jesus and some others mentioned in the Bible were true Prophets of Allah SWT. But the Humans corrupted the revelations sent to them. It also says, all the Prophets were Muslims and they taught Islam.
6- Therefore, those who followed these mighty Messengers of Allah SWT or God in English, and teachings revealed to them attained salvation (I am using your concept).
7-But you can never ever not even in your wildest dreams show me the original torah revealed by God. If you bring the original Torah, I will show you the name of Allah SWT in it, His Commands in it by following which salvation can be achieved, and also show you that it taught Islam which was the religion of all the Prophets. You got a mammoth task on your hand my friend, my dearest Rabbi.
Rabbi, let people who read our discussion decide, who is childish in these written conversations. I am posting our discussion on my forum and one Pakistani website/forum at the moment, but when our discussion is finished, I will post it on other web sites too. It is people right to know what is the truth behind your youtube videos. And if you are capable or not to engage in meaningful discussions and substantiate your accusations in precise and meaningful manner. It is better than me posting useless videos on Youtube attacking you. At least I am engaging with you giving you equal rights to respond.
Rabbi, I am for complete freedom of religion and speech. You are exercising your rights freely. I am testing your knowledge and your understanding, to find out and demonstrate to others if you are capable to defend what you are trying to broadcast to the world.
If you attack my beliefs and religion then be prepared to face questions about youre newly found and adopted religion. Why are you protesting? Prove your worth, make your points, I am not stopping you. Look at our responses, I am trying to respond to you in far greater details and clarity, compare to your muddled responses. I am providing proofs from the Bible for my arguments. Even answering some of your allegations about the Holy Quran, if I find them necessary to answer.
Compare to you I am providing more evidence and giving more arguments. You claim to be a Rabbi, supposedly a learned person, you should be able to write your point of view more eloquently compared to me, who is just an ordinary Muslim.
So, why are you not doing it? Please do so, I can promise you higher you go in our discussion I would be motivated more and more and you will find me your match in everything you produce, I guarantee this to you.
Good luck, I am waiting for your response, lets stick to the concept of God in the Bible for time being, trust me I will respond to every major allegations you bring against the Holy Quran, I am already responding to few, and I am going to write to you a separate e-mail on your particular accusations as I promised above.
I have just written answer to part of your mail, first I will respond to your two allegation as I promised in my next mail and after that I will see what else Is there in your mail worth answering and also look at your answers in response to some of my questions.
