UnknownAX
Banned
this write-up is in response to Ejaz Haiders article published in the news on 29-10-13
http://tribune.com.pk/story/624242/of-holy-lies-and-lal-masjid/
Firstly, sir, I am so sorry that I am writing another counter to your article. I dont like opposing a senior like you, but I cant keep a mum on tilted articles and lies.
Sir, I am not a fundamentalist, I am a liberal like you, but does being a liberal means that I support, promote and justify the deaths of militants and Islamic fundamentalist. Dont all we liberals believe in equal rights and humanity? Dont we all believe that operations, military might and wars are counterproductive? Dont we have our faith in the rule of law, or like BUSH and US, we believe in indiscriminate and inhumane use of might over humanity.
I countered your last article War for Dummies by writing Dummies for War because it was based on misrepresentation of facts and history. You lacked the courage to face the facts mentioned in my article, you lacked will to admit the lies you penned.
Your write up today is the same.
Once again you tired to justify a military operation that resulted in colossal civilian casualties, ignited anti- state and anti-west sentiments thorough out Pakistan, ultimately giving rise to TTP and suicide attacks. When ever I read you in Express Tribune, I come to the conclusion that they lack a fact checking department. These are widely acclaimed hard core facts, and unlike you, who promote westernized opinions as facts, I will give you substantial evidence for whatever I say.
[TABLE="width: 583"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Reference ID[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Created[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Classification[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]09ISLAMABAD816[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]2009-04-18 14:07[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]CONFIDENTIAL[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Embassy Islamabad[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The military operation to retake the Red Mosque from militants in July 2007 left over 100 dead, sparked a wave of suicide bombings across Pakistan, and badly undercut Musharrafs conservative support base.
He also confirmed that there is no move to rectify the Red Mosque-associated madrassas Jallandari and other madrassa leaders did acknowledge that the Red Mosque has a lot of sympathy amongst madrassa students, and after the operation the enrollment at both Jamia Hafsa and Jamia Faridia increased.
Classified By: Anne W. Patterson for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d)
In the longer term, the government faces the specter of creeping talibanization by militants who capitalize on public discontent with the governments inability to deliver basic services and law and order.
I post this leaked cables to substantiate my argument that Lal Masjid operation was counterproductive and hence caused more loss to the country than gain.
This can account for long-term damage caused by one of the many actions of General Musharraf.
On 20th February 2007, Hamid Mir wrote a column in Jang. In this column he warned the government that a conflict is brewing between CDA and Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) over the demolitions of mosques, including a 100 years old mosque named Amir Hamza.
The names of Masajid which are demolished by CDA in the name of illegal construction and Security risk
1.Masjid Ibne-Abbas,Archard Road,Islamabad.
2.Masjid Ameer Hamza,Murree Road,Islamabad.
3.Masjid Umar Bin Abdul Aziz,Police Colony,Islamabad
4.Masjid Aamna, ShakarParian,Islamabad
5.Masjid Syyedna Ali, Nai Kacherian, Islamabad
6.Masjid Umar Near Chaudhary Plaza,G-8 Markaz, Islamabad.
7.Masjid Ameer Hamza,F-10/3 Islamabad
Now if you would tell me that the government of India can demolish any illegally or legally constructed 100 years old Mandir in secular republic of India and there wont be riots, then you would only make a mockery out of yourself. Government of Secular Republic of India cannot dare dream about it.
In Pakistan, you know it better that mosques are dearer to people then their homes.
And why, from the heavens up above the CDA came across this idea of demolishing mosques. Because according to the wikileaks and Hamid Mir F-10/3 was not safe for the Americans.
Wednesday, 7 February 2007, 11:31 am
Cable: Wikileaks
Ref: 07ISLAMABAD62
The government considers these to be a serious security threat as well as a nuisance. An estimated
12,000 to 15,000 students attend the illegal madrassahs; two of the demolished mosques abutted roads used by VIP motorcades; and the government fears the madrassahs are breeding grounds for sectarianism and violence.
Our government did what the US wanted, a preemptive strike to demolish the Madarsaahs.
This crisis never started from Aunti Shamim and prostitution, please have a longer memory then Aunti Shamim, Mr Haider.
The argument is again validated by wikileaks
[TABLE="width: 568"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="width: 280, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="width: 287, bgcolor: transparent"]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
B. ISLAMABD 22512 C. ISLAMABAD 189
Classified By: Ambassador Ryan Crocker, Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d) 1. (C)
Summary. Four weeks in, approximately 200 female students of the Madrassa Hafza continue to occupy a childrens library to protest the Islamabad Capital Development Authoritys initiative to raze and relocate illegally constructed mosques.
On February 12, the Minister of Religious Affairs, negotiating on behalf of the government, announced a settlement: the girls would leave the library if the CDA would cease issuing demolition notices to illegally constructed mosques.
Resistance to the demolition firmed up after January 20, when the CDA razed the Amir Hamza mosque and served evacuation notices to dozens of other unauthorized mosques and madrassahs (including the Hamsa madrassah for girls).
The female madrassah students responded to the CDAs threat by taking over the childrens library and
have stayed put for almost two weeks. These burqa-clad schoolgirls have garnered widespread media attention.
So up till now I have established that the operation sunrise or operation silence was counterproductive and gave rise to suicide attacks in Pakistan (just on the American request, Musharraf placed all our lives in danger), secondly, Aunti Shamim and prostitution was not the root cause of the Lal Masjid Saga.
But since you mention Aunti shamim by saying that they were challenging the writ of state, then to bust your lies, here you go:
[TABLE="width: 510"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="width: 252, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="width: 259, bgcolor: transparent"]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Classified By: Anne W. Patterson for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d)
The crisis exposed popular discontent with the governments ability to deliver basic services and law and order, even in the capital.
Neighbors, who had repeatedly petitioned the police to close a known brothel, asked the Red Mosque to intervene.
The Lal Masjid took the initiative on the request of the local residents and because General Musharraf and the government was not providing support to the residents. This happens in every town of Pakistan. Police supports brothels and people seek external help.
Now coming to the Ghazi brothers and those challenging the writ of the state.
If you are a liberal and a democrat, you would agree to the fact that in 2007, there was no writ of the state of Pakistan, all over Pakistan. Technically, General Musharraf was a dictator and the constitution of the state was in abeyance. I doubt that without a constitution, there can be any writ. If you disagree with this argument then you agree that General Musharraf was the rightful and law full ruler of Pakistan, from 1999 to 2008.
All those fighting against the dictator ship of General Musharraf, were they challenging the writ of the state. Because all of them wanted what state didnt at that time?
As for Ghazi brothers being terrorists, it is yet another misinterpretation. The word is ASSET not TERRORIST. Who trained them, who gave them weapons and money, who provided them support when they needed it, you wont answer to that would you.
Now coming to Mushrrafs crime.
In the Lal Masjid commission, most of those who participated in this massacre were called in. Hamid Mir also went in to give his statement, so did Fazal ur Rehman Khalil. Mulana Fazal ur Rehman Khalil was the mediator of the dialogue between Lal Masjid and Chaudhary Shujaat , he told the commission and Hamid Mir Noted
Moulana Ghazi wanted peaceful resolution to the crisis through negotiations, but whenever he tried, government failed him.
Shujaat told Moulana Ghazi that he should surrender the mosque and the arms and should leave to his native town, Rojhan Jamali. Moulana Ghazi agreed. When the news was given to Musharraf he replied that no one would leave, Ghazi would go to jail.
Moulana told the commission that he conveyed Mushrrafs message to Moulana Ghazi and he agreed to it as well but General Musharraf backed off and said that first Molana Ghazi should surrender five of his students as guarantee of the agreement.
It is told to the commission and I quote Molana Ghazi even agreed to that but General Musharraf backed off again, asking for 30 students instead of 5
Abdul Rasheed Ghazi agreed to it and before this news was given to chudhary Shujaat to convey to General Musharraf , the operation took its course.
The article is published on 2-21-2013 in Daily Jang, just to substantiate facts.
I dont want to write about the deaths and the mass grave, the burned bodies and the missing students but you said in the article
No one should go unheard; but neither should lies be allowed to govern our lives.
All I want to know is how many effected families have you talked to , did you talk to Chuadhary Shujaat or Molana Fazal ur Rehman Khalil. Did you have a chat with any of people involved in the negotiations process, or once again, you are mislaying facts with ill informed opinions.
Your write up is not a statement in the commission, nor it is an email by Anne Paterson, its just a tilted opinion. But opinions are shaped on facts and incidents. I wonder what facts do you have or do you know which we dont know, which the commission doesnt know, which US embassy surely doesnt have a clue about.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/624242/of-holy-lies-and-lal-masjid/
Firstly, sir, I am so sorry that I am writing another counter to your article. I dont like opposing a senior like you, but I cant keep a mum on tilted articles and lies.
Sir, I am not a fundamentalist, I am a liberal like you, but does being a liberal means that I support, promote and justify the deaths of militants and Islamic fundamentalist. Dont all we liberals believe in equal rights and humanity? Dont we all believe that operations, military might and wars are counterproductive? Dont we have our faith in the rule of law, or like BUSH and US, we believe in indiscriminate and inhumane use of might over humanity.
I countered your last article War for Dummies by writing Dummies for War because it was based on misrepresentation of facts and history. You lacked the courage to face the facts mentioned in my article, you lacked will to admit the lies you penned.
Your write up today is the same.
Once again you tired to justify a military operation that resulted in colossal civilian casualties, ignited anti- state and anti-west sentiments thorough out Pakistan, ultimately giving rise to TTP and suicide attacks. When ever I read you in Express Tribune, I come to the conclusion that they lack a fact checking department. These are widely acclaimed hard core facts, and unlike you, who promote westernized opinions as facts, I will give you substantial evidence for whatever I say.
[TABLE="width: 583"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Reference ID[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Created[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Classification[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]09ISLAMABAD816[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]2009-04-18 14:07[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]CONFIDENTIAL[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Embassy Islamabad[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The military operation to retake the Red Mosque from militants in July 2007 left over 100 dead, sparked a wave of suicide bombings across Pakistan, and badly undercut Musharrafs conservative support base.
He also confirmed that there is no move to rectify the Red Mosque-associated madrassas Jallandari and other madrassa leaders did acknowledge that the Red Mosque has a lot of sympathy amongst madrassa students, and after the operation the enrollment at both Jamia Hafsa and Jamia Faridia increased.
Classified By: Anne W. Patterson for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d)
In the longer term, the government faces the specter of creeping talibanization by militants who capitalize on public discontent with the governments inability to deliver basic services and law and order.
I post this leaked cables to substantiate my argument that Lal Masjid operation was counterproductive and hence caused more loss to the country than gain.
This can account for long-term damage caused by one of the many actions of General Musharraf.
On 20th February 2007, Hamid Mir wrote a column in Jang. In this column he warned the government that a conflict is brewing between CDA and Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) over the demolitions of mosques, including a 100 years old mosque named Amir Hamza.
The names of Masajid which are demolished by CDA in the name of illegal construction and Security risk
1.Masjid Ibne-Abbas,Archard Road,Islamabad.
2.Masjid Ameer Hamza,Murree Road,Islamabad.
3.Masjid Umar Bin Abdul Aziz,Police Colony,Islamabad
4.Masjid Aamna, ShakarParian,Islamabad
5.Masjid Syyedna Ali, Nai Kacherian, Islamabad
6.Masjid Umar Near Chaudhary Plaza,G-8 Markaz, Islamabad.
7.Masjid Ameer Hamza,F-10/3 Islamabad
Now if you would tell me that the government of India can demolish any illegally or legally constructed 100 years old Mandir in secular republic of India and there wont be riots, then you would only make a mockery out of yourself. Government of Secular Republic of India cannot dare dream about it.
In Pakistan, you know it better that mosques are dearer to people then their homes.
And why, from the heavens up above the CDA came across this idea of demolishing mosques. Because according to the wikileaks and Hamid Mir F-10/3 was not safe for the Americans.
Wednesday, 7 February 2007, 11:31 am
Cable: Wikileaks
Ref: 07ISLAMABAD62
The government considers these to be a serious security threat as well as a nuisance. An estimated
12,000 to 15,000 students attend the illegal madrassahs; two of the demolished mosques abutted roads used by VIP motorcades; and the government fears the madrassahs are breeding grounds for sectarianism and violence.
Our government did what the US wanted, a preemptive strike to demolish the Madarsaahs.
This crisis never started from Aunti Shamim and prostitution, please have a longer memory then Aunti Shamim, Mr Haider.
The argument is again validated by wikileaks
[TABLE="width: 568"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="width: 280, bgcolor: transparent"]
Date:
2007 February 26, 12:34 (Monday)[/TD][TD="width: 287, bgcolor: transparent"]
Canonical ID:
07ISLAMABAD897_a[/TD][/TR]
[/TABLE]
B. ISLAMABD 22512 C. ISLAMABAD 189
Classified By: Ambassador Ryan Crocker, Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d) 1. (C)
Summary. Four weeks in, approximately 200 female students of the Madrassa Hafza continue to occupy a childrens library to protest the Islamabad Capital Development Authoritys initiative to raze and relocate illegally constructed mosques.
On February 12, the Minister of Religious Affairs, negotiating on behalf of the government, announced a settlement: the girls would leave the library if the CDA would cease issuing demolition notices to illegally constructed mosques.
Resistance to the demolition firmed up after January 20, when the CDA razed the Amir Hamza mosque and served evacuation notices to dozens of other unauthorized mosques and madrassahs (including the Hamsa madrassah for girls).
The female madrassah students responded to the CDAs threat by taking over the childrens library and
have stayed put for almost two weeks. These burqa-clad schoolgirls have garnered widespread media attention.
So up till now I have established that the operation sunrise or operation silence was counterproductive and gave rise to suicide attacks in Pakistan (just on the American request, Musharraf placed all our lives in danger), secondly, Aunti Shamim and prostitution was not the root cause of the Lal Masjid Saga.
But since you mention Aunti shamim by saying that they were challenging the writ of state, then to bust your lies, here you go:
[TABLE="width: 510"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="width: 252, bgcolor: transparent"]
Date:
2007 July 12, 07:41 (Thursday)[/TD][TD="width: 259, bgcolor: transparent"]
Canonical ID:
07ISLAMABAD3027_a[/TD][/TR]
[/TABLE]
Classified By: Anne W. Patterson for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d)
The crisis exposed popular discontent with the governments ability to deliver basic services and law and order, even in the capital.
Neighbors, who had repeatedly petitioned the police to close a known brothel, asked the Red Mosque to intervene.
The Lal Masjid took the initiative on the request of the local residents and because General Musharraf and the government was not providing support to the residents. This happens in every town of Pakistan. Police supports brothels and people seek external help.
Now coming to the Ghazi brothers and those challenging the writ of the state.
If you are a liberal and a democrat, you would agree to the fact that in 2007, there was no writ of the state of Pakistan, all over Pakistan. Technically, General Musharraf was a dictator and the constitution of the state was in abeyance. I doubt that without a constitution, there can be any writ. If you disagree with this argument then you agree that General Musharraf was the rightful and law full ruler of Pakistan, from 1999 to 2008.
All those fighting against the dictator ship of General Musharraf, were they challenging the writ of the state. Because all of them wanted what state didnt at that time?
As for Ghazi brothers being terrorists, it is yet another misinterpretation. The word is ASSET not TERRORIST. Who trained them, who gave them weapons and money, who provided them support when they needed it, you wont answer to that would you.
Now coming to Mushrrafs crime.
In the Lal Masjid commission, most of those who participated in this massacre were called in. Hamid Mir also went in to give his statement, so did Fazal ur Rehman Khalil. Mulana Fazal ur Rehman Khalil was the mediator of the dialogue between Lal Masjid and Chaudhary Shujaat , he told the commission and Hamid Mir Noted
Moulana Ghazi wanted peaceful resolution to the crisis through negotiations, but whenever he tried, government failed him.
Shujaat told Moulana Ghazi that he should surrender the mosque and the arms and should leave to his native town, Rojhan Jamali. Moulana Ghazi agreed. When the news was given to Musharraf he replied that no one would leave, Ghazi would go to jail.
Moulana told the commission that he conveyed Mushrrafs message to Moulana Ghazi and he agreed to it as well but General Musharraf backed off and said that first Molana Ghazi should surrender five of his students as guarantee of the agreement.
It is told to the commission and I quote Molana Ghazi even agreed to that but General Musharraf backed off again, asking for 30 students instead of 5
Abdul Rasheed Ghazi agreed to it and before this news was given to chudhary Shujaat to convey to General Musharraf , the operation took its course.
The article is published on 2-21-2013 in Daily Jang, just to substantiate facts.
I dont want to write about the deaths and the mass grave, the burned bodies and the missing students but you said in the article
No one should go unheard; but neither should lies be allowed to govern our lives.
All I want to know is how many effected families have you talked to , did you talk to Chuadhary Shujaat or Molana Fazal ur Rehman Khalil. Did you have a chat with any of people involved in the negotiations process, or once again, you are mislaying facts with ill informed opinions.
Your write up is not a statement in the commission, nor it is an email by Anne Paterson, its just a tilted opinion. But opinions are shaped on facts and incidents. I wonder what facts do you have or do you know which we dont know, which the commission doesnt know, which US embassy surely doesnt have a clue about.
