Money, Usury and Jews. Why Jews were the "hated people"

[AsifAmeer]

Dont wanna sound rude but mate you dont have a clue of what you are talking about.

JEW IS A RACE. JUDAISM is generally the religion of that race.
Take this statement to any jew, any RABBI , any anthropologist and he will confirm it for you. So no, it wasnt my "logic". its a fact.

And I also want [MENTION=32679]guest[/MENTION] to listen to this . These Masters of the Universal Knowledge quoted Ayaah from the Quran to not hold Jews and Christian as friends. Word is Auliya. Sheikh Imran Hosein states the Quran speaks of Sovereign alliances here where there is a Defence pact involving jews and christians BOTH.

But guys.. listen.. I am completely ok with you being Racist against jews, blacks, gypsies and ginger kids. Just dont distort religion.

Now this is truly flawed logic Asif. What does being a Jew have to do with Racism ?

The word Jew signifies the follower of a faith not a race. The jewish faith has people from all races. We have european jews, Iranian Jews, Arab Jews and African Jews. Why get confused between a race and a religion.

If followers of a particular ideology indulge in usury and that is ratified by the Quran ..then we should simply accept that and leave it at that. why give weight to some text written by god knows who to distort and change views that Jews didnt deal in usury when they did, but were rather forced into it by christian kings.

And whatever hostility you see towards the "jews" today or what you call "hostility, is not because of judaism as a religion or towards the jewish practice of usury BUT rather because of the illegal occupation of Israel and its zionist policies. The reason for our predecessors not having such hostilities is because Islam is a religion of peace and their was never an Israel like this that bothered the Muslims so much. Simple !

Muslims have been the best to jews because Allah swt and Prophet Muhammad pbuh has commanded us to be so. whatever injustices have happened have mostly been from the other side.

 

[AsifAmeer]

The Holy Quran is crystal clear about Yahood and Nasaraa ... honestly, I don't need to read anything to else to convince me otherwise ...

I am amazed on how you came to the conclusion above ... it is astounding. Please don't put words into my mouth!

Hey.. it wasnt me who said Islam is racist. I just wanna tell you that you should stop it. Its incorrect, its indecent and immoral to call anyone's deen racist, ESPECIALLY when its your own too...

 

[wadera]

Hey.. it wasnt me who said Islam is racist. I just wanna tell you that you should stop it. Its incorrect, its indecent and immoral to call anyone's deen racist, ESPECIALLY when its your own too...

Asif Ameer Panjwani - stop patronizing me dude. Its not fair. My comments were as below:

The Holy Quran is crystal clear about Yahood and Nasaraa ... honestly, I don't need to read anything to else to convince me otherwise ...

Which part seems racist? Please do highlight to me ..

The fact of the matter is simple The Holy Quran is clear about yahood and nasaraa .. indeed. There are no two ways about it. No matter what kind of twist you put into it. Before I elaborate - perhaps you can explain your misunderstanding and thus the blatant barrage of questionable vocabulary like 'racist' 'indecent' and 'immoral' used against me .. did not expect this from you dude.

 

[modern.fakir]

Take it easy buddy ...you seem to be more vehemently passionate about defending jew's as a race than an actual Jewish person themselves. Whats the big deal ?

Here check these articles ...these are written by a rabbi and an educated jewish person and they agree with my point of view. So if they agree and i state the same thing, then we all definitely know what we are talking about. But you seem to be held up in some sort of a mental block which is hellbent on declaring them a RACE ..when they are not.. You can hold an opinion but dont pin it down on others. Here check this out ...

http://judaism.about.com/od/judaismbasics/a/beingjewish.htm

Judaism is not a race

Judaism is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry. For instance, Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews are both "Jewish." However, whereas Ashkenazi Jews often hail from Europe, Sephardic Jews often hail from the Middle East. People of many different races have become Jewish over the centuries.

Judaism is not a nationality
Although today Israel is often called the Jewish homeland, being Jewish is not a nationality because Jews have been dispersed throughout the world for almost two thousand years. Hence, Jews come from countries all over the world."

Dont wanna sound rude but mate you dont have a clue of what you are talking about.

JEW IS A RACE. JUDAISM is generally the religion of that race.
Take this statement to any jew, any RABBI , any anthropologist and he will confirm it for you. So no, it wasnt my "logic". its a fact.

And I also want @guest to listen to this . These Masters of the Universal Knowledge quoted Ayaah from the Quran to not hold Jews and Christian as friends. Word is Auliya. Sheikh Imran Hosein states the Quran speaks of Sovereign alliances here where there is a Defence pact involving jews and christians BOTH.

But guys.. listen.. I am completely ok with you being Racist against jews, blacks, gypsies and ginger kids. Just dont distort religion.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/498027/jewish/Are-Jews-a-Race.htm

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Are Jews a "Race"?


By Tzvi Freeman

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[TD="width: 100%"]While the Jewish people began with the descendents of Abraham, Isaacand Jacob, many people have converted to become Jews over the millennia--beginning with the "mixed multitude" that came with us out of Egypt. Today there are African Jews, Japanese Jews, even Eskimo Jews. It seems difficult to call such a mixture a "race".
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http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

[h=3]Are Jews a Race?[/h]In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race, at least for purposes of certain anti-discrimination laws. Their reasoning: at the time these laws were passed, people routinely spoke of the "Jewish race" or the "Italian race" as well as the "Negro race," so that is what the legislators intended to protect.


But many Jews were deeply offended by that decision, offended by any hint that Jews could be considered a race. The idea of Jews as a race brings to mind nightmarish visions of Nazi Germany, where Jews were declared to be not just a race, but an inferior race that had to be rounded up into ghettos and exterminated like vermin.


But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

So now ..if they are NOT a race like the opinion we hold and the good jewish folks here THEN we cannot be Racist (bigsmile)...and your analogy is proven wrong...and neither is anyone distorting anything !...simple (bigsmile)

 

[AsifAmeer]

Yaar things are not as black and white as we humans would like to believe. Aur yahan mazhab ki baat aa gai and I felt a bit offended to few of the posts here, including yours. Let me ask you something. There is an Ayah in Surah Taubah that Jews believe in Ezra has the Allah's son. Now if you go an ask any jew, he will stare at you and remind you Judaism is monotheistic. I mean the main reason jews dont like Christians is because Christians dont believe in Monotheism. So how do you explain the Ayah then? The answer is that back in the early days of Islam there were some really messed up tribes in the Arab region who called themselves jews maybe because being a jew then was kinda cool.. I dont know.. I dont care. Lekin God is point to THOSE jews, not the jew living in New Jersey. So when folks throw out broad statements about Islam that Islam says this and that about Jews, they make my faith look and sound what its not i.e. retarded.

Take everything with a pinch of common-sense and humility. We dont know everything and we dont understand everything. Even the meanings of languages have changed, cultural changes, social changes, and when everything is added up, it gives a whole different meaning.
[MENTION=24232]modern.fakir[/MENTION] I am not defending jews. Call'em by any name as long you dont put an Islamic approval on it.

Is that really too much to ask?

Asif Ameer Panjwani - stop patronizing me dude. Its not fair. My comments were as below:

The Holy Quran is crystal clear about Yahood and Nasaraa ... honestly, I don't need to read anything to else to convince me otherwise ...

Which part seems racist? Please do highlight to me ..

The fact of the matter is simple The Holy Quran is clear about yahood and nasaraa .. indeed. There are no two ways about it. No matter what kind of twist you put into it. Before I elaborate - perhaps you can explain your misunderstanding and thus the blatant barrage of questionable vocabulary like 'racist' 'indecent' and 'immoral' used against me .. did not expect this from you dude.

 

[wadera]

Yaar things are not as black and white as we humans would like to believe. Aur yahan mazhab ki baat aa gai and I felt a bit offended to few of the posts here, including yours. Let me ask you something. There is an Ayah in Surah Taubah that Jews believe in Ezra has the Allah's son. Now if you go an ask any jew, he will stare at you and remind you Judaism is monotheistic. I mean the main reason jews dont like Christians is because Christians dont believe in Monotheism. So how do you explain the Ayah then? The answer is that back in the early days of Islam there were some really messed up tribes in the Arab region who called themselves jews maybe because being a jew then was kinda cool.. I dont know.. I dont care. Lekin God is point to THOSE jews, not the jew living in New Jersey. So when folks throw out broad statements about Islam that Islam says this and that about Jews, they make my faith look and sound what its not i.e. retarded.

Take everything with a pinch of common-sense and humility. We dont know everything and we dont understand everything. Even the meanings of languages have changed, cultural changes, social changes, and when everything is added up, it gives a whole different meaning.
@modern.fakir I am not defending jews. Call'em by any name as long you dont put an Islamic approval on it.

Is that really too much to ask?

Wow .. I am amazed. SubhanAllah.

I actually wrote a long reply but deleted it. Simply because you are bordering to doubting the Holy Quran in your example above. Thus, I don't see any reason why I continue this charade.

Seriously, this argument or any other argument is not worth it is in that context. However, let me tell you the only one 'retarding' the religion is you.

I hope you realize it. May Allah Have mercy on us, Ameen.

And Allah Knows Best

 

[AsifAmeer]

Dekho... mujhe koi farq nahi parta if someone calls me or thinks of me as a Non-Muslim. I was born a Non-muslim. I am beyond the fear-factor. I'd be fascinated with Islam even if I werent a muslim.

Let the fear go mate.. Go ahead... question your Creator.. Question everything He says. You would be amazed.. But you gotta let go the fear..

Let me give you an example.. The 1st Kalima starts with "LA ILHA..." ILLALAH Muhammed ur RasullAllah.
"There's NO GOD.... but God" - Negate then validate.

Wow .. I am amazed. SubhanAllah.

I actually wrote a long reply but deleted it. Simply because you are bordering to doubting the Holy Quran in your example above. Thus, I don't see any reason why I continue this charade.

Seriously, this argument or any other argument is not worth it is in that context. However, let me tell you the only one 'retarding' the religion is you.

I hope you realize it. May Allah Have mercy on us, Ameen.

And Allah Knows Best

 

[modern.fakir]

I see where your coming from dude, it makes sense but the ayah 30 of Surah Tobah you are referring to refers to Prophet Ezra ra. History knows that jews were put in babylonian captivity and they LOST the law of moses due to that captivity. It was then that Allah swt sent down Prophet Ezra Ra who through a prophetic miracle re-dictated the lost law to the jews. The jews were then so fascinated by this miracle that they thought that only a "SON of GOD" could re-dictate the Law so precisely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra

Allah swt was obviously angered by this because not only did he save the jews but also gave them another chance through Prophet Ezra Ra's miracle of re-enacting the law of Allah swt that was lost, and how do the jews get back to Allah ?...By claiming He has a son - Astaghfarullah !!!

And secondly, the guy sitting in new jersey is not sure of the basic tenets of religion how will he know what the jews of babylon did thousands of years ago when Ezra or Uzair Alayhis salam was re-enacting the law for them as per Allah's will ?

These guys are perpetual liars and yes some good people are also among them but they took usury and they do to this day and the Quran is right here again !

Yaar things are not as black and white as we humans would like to believe. Aur yahan mazhab ki baat aa gai and I felt a bit offended to few of the posts here, including yours. Let me ask you something. There is an Ayah in Surah Taubah that Jews believe in Ezra has the Allah's son. Now if you go an ask any jew, he will stare at you and remind you Judaism is monotheistic. I mean the main reason jews dont like Christians is because Christians dont believe in Monotheism. So how do you explain the Ayah then? The answer is that back in the early days of Islam there were some really messed up tribes in the Arab region who called themselves jews maybe because being a jew then was kinda cool.. I dont know.. I dont care. Lekin God is point to THOSE jews, not the jew living in New Jersey. So when folks throw out broad statements about Islam that Islam says this and that about Jews, they make my faith look and sound what its not i.e. retarded.

Take everything with a pinch of common-sense and humility. We dont know everything and we dont understand everything. Even the meanings of languages have changed, cultural changes, social changes, and when everything is added up, it gives a whole different meaning.
@modern.fakir I am not defending jews. Call'em by any name as long you dont put an Islamic approval on it.

Is that really too much to ask?

 

[wadera]

Dekho... mujhe koi farq nahi parta if someone calls me or thinks of me as a Non-Muslim. I was born a Non-muslim. I am beyond the fear-factor. I'd be fascinated with Islam even if I werent a muslim.

Let the fear go mate.. Go ahead... question your Creator.. Question everything He says. You would be amazed.. But you gotta let go the fear..

Let me give you an example.. The 1st Kalima starts with "LA ILHA..." ILLALAH Muhammed ur RasullAllah.
"There's NO GOD.... but God" - Negate then validate.

Asif - again you are putting words into my mouth. I am not calling you a non-Muslim .. who am I to call others? I only commented based on what you wrote. Clearly, I can't control the way you perceive it. This is the main reason, I mentioned that there is no point on debating these points further.

As far as questioning the Creator or Islam is concerned - there is no problem in that. HOWEVER, we must know the boundaries.

If you felt that I was calling you a non-muslims etc .. my sincere apologies. That was not my intention. However, I repeat ... there is no point in debating religion when neither of us are scholars (atleast I am not). Also, somethings are not negotiable/questionable ... for example ... if you start to question on the reason of Hajj, Zakat, 5 fard prayers .. then clearly .. there is no discussion to be held. Similarly, if we start to question The Holy Quran in a way that it creates doubt or spreads negativity - then I have every right as a Muslim to question the reasoning.

Again - it is only my opinion that when you put words into my mouth or patronize me even without understanding my point of view - you wronged me and in fact insulted me with the colorful vocabulary you used. I hope you realize that.

If you don't it doesn't make a difference either as there are many others on this forum who are on my ignore list. no big deal.

May Allah Have mercy on us, Ameen.

 

[wadera]

I see where your coming from dude, it makes sense but the ayah 30 of Surah Tobah you are referring to refers to Prophet Ezra ra. History knows that jews were put in babylonian captivity and they LOST the law of moses due to that captivity. It was then that Allah swt sent down Prophet Ezra Ra who through a prophetic miracle re-dictated the lost law to the jews. The jews were then so fascinated by this miracle that they thought that only a "SON of GOD" could re-dictate the Law so precisely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra

Allah swt was obviously angered by this because not only did he save the jews but also gave them another chance through Prophet Ezra Ra's miracle of re-enacting the law of Allah swt that was lost, and how do the jews get back to Allah ?...By claiming He has a son - Astaghfarullah !!!

And secondly, the guy sitting in new jersey is not sure of the basic tenets of religion how will he know what the jews of babylon did thousands of years ago when Ezra or Uzair Alayhis salam was re-enacting the law for them as per Allah's will ?

These guys are perpetual liars and yes some good people are also among them but they took usury and they do to this day and the Quran is right here again !

Thanks. I hope Asif gets this point. Hidayah is only from Allah.

 

[AsifAmeer]

I didnt say you called me a non-muslim. I didnt even feel that way. I think communicating ideas and expressions in a post are challenging. I sensed fear in you and I was trying to highlight the issue of fear. I gave my example as to how i handle it. That was my whole purpose of sharing it. It didnt imply that you are calling me a Non-Muslim. Mate, let this be sharing of ideas without emotions.

Earlier I shared the example of Quran saying Jews believe in Ezra AS as son of God as an example of how a very true statement lacking timeframe becomes false. Quran is stating the truth lekin our interpretation that EVERY jew or all jews of the past believed in God having a son, would render even a true statement as false. Assumptions in interpretations render truth as untrue.

When I said you should question your Creator. I was hinting to questioning our assumptions of the interpretations because when we honestly question our Creator, we start to realize our own flawed assumptions. Let me share 1 more example. There's a quote in Quran that only Allah knows whats in the belly of the Mother before the child is born. How do you explain today's Ultrasounds? I actually had this conversation with a Scholar on this. Guess what he tells me.. His response was "These Ultrasounds cause damage to the fetus". Quran claims no one can know whats inside the belly and the Ultrasound machine says its a boy/girl. And the answer of a Scholar is "Ultrasound causes damage"? You see what I am saying? The scholar doesnt have an answer. Not because he is dumb or anything. He just doesnt wanna question his assumptions on his belief. Thats ok.. I am not a scholar so I can question everything. And here's the answer. God speaks with absolute certainty. When you look at an Ultrasound Machine technical specs, it says "Results fall in 95~98% level of confidence bracket."

Reconcile reality with God's word by questioning your assumptions.
[MENTION=24232]modern.fakir[/MENTION] thanks for sharing that info. I did not know the background in detail.

Asif - again you are putting words into my mouth. I am not calling you a non-Muslim .. who am I to call others? I only commented based on what you wrote. Clearly, I can't control the way you perceive it. This is the main reason, I mentioned that there is no point on debating these points further.

As far as questioning the Creator or Islam is concerned - there is no problem in that. HOWEVER, we must know the boundaries.

If you felt that I was calling you a non-muslims etc .. my sincere apologies. That was not my intention. However, I repeat ... there is no point in debating religion when neither of us are scholars (atleast I am not). Also, somethings are not negotiable/questionable ... for example ... if you start to question on the reason of Hajj, Zakat, 5 fard prayers .. then clearly .. there is no discussion to be held. Similarly, if we start to question The Holy Quran in a way that it creates doubt or spreads negativity - then I have every right as a Muslim to question the reasoning.

Again - it is only my opinion that when you put words into my mouth or patronize me even without understanding my point of view - you wronged me and in fact insulted me with the colorful vocabulary you used. I hope you realize that.

If you don't it doesn't make a difference either as there are many others on this forum who are on my ignore list. no big deal.

May Allah Have mercy on us, Ameen.

 

[desicad]

I didnt say you called me a non-muslim. I didnt even feel that way. I think communicating ideas and expressions in a post are challenging. I sensed fear in you and I was trying to highlight the issue of fear. I gave my example as to how i handle it. That was my whole purpose of sharing it. It didnt imply that you are calling me a Non-Muslim. Mate, let this be sharing of ideas without emotions.

Earlier I shared the example of Quran saying Jews believe in Ezra AS as son of God as an example of how a very true statement lacking timeframe becomes false. Quran is stating the truth lekin our interpretation that EVERY jew or all jews of the past believed in God having a son, would render even a true statement as false. Assumptions in interpretations render truth as untrue.

When I said you should question your Creator. I was hinting to questioning our assumptions of the interpretations because when we honestly question our Creator, we start to realize our own flawed assumptions. Let me share 1 more example. There's a quote in Quran that only Allah knows whats in the belly of the Mother before the child is born. How do you explain today's Ultrasounds? I actually had this conversation with a Scholar on this. Guess what he tells me.. His response was "These Ultrasounds cause damage to the fetus". Quran claims no one can know whats inside the belly and the Ultrasound machine says its a boy/girl. And the answer of a Scholar is "Ultrasound causes damage"? You see what I am saying? The scholar doesnt have an answer. Not because he is dumb or anything. He just doesnt wanna question his assumptions on his belief. Thats ok.. I am not a scholar so I can question everything. And here's the answer. God speaks with absolute certainty. When you look at an Ultrasound Machine technical specs, it says "Results fall in 95~98% level of confidence bracket."

Reconcile reality with God's word by questioning your assumptions.
@modern.fakir thanks for sharing that info. I did not know the background in detail.

When does God speak......with certainty or no certainty?..........

 

[AsifAmeer]

What good's a god who can claim no certainty?

When does God speak......with certainty or no certainty?..........

 

[desicad]

What good's a god why can claim no certainty?

???????.........you have to come again......

 

[AsifAmeer]

I am discovering the limitations of spellcheck. It skips sanity check. typo fixed.

???????.........you have to come again......

 

[desicad]

I am discovering the limitations of spellcheck. It skips sanity check. typo fixed.

that's a general statement.........anyway leave it........I know you won't have any answer and don't want you to behave like a moulvi.......:lol:

 

[AsifAmeer]

I assure you I am not a maulvi.

Feel free to proceed with the question on God and certainty.

that's a general statement.........anyway leave it........I know you won't have any answer and don't want you to behave like a moulvi.......:lol:

 

[wmahmooood]

have you evaluated all the religions past and present of the world, to make a statement like tha. if you have not, you just appear to be a bumbling gloating fool.

I have faith in Islam... and it is confirmed that Islam is the best religion........confirmed million of time.... If you wana know you can know at your own....or can tell me ... I might help you as well

 

[guest]

I have faith in Islam... and it is confirmed that Islam is the best religion........confirmed million of time.... If you wana know you can know at your own....or can tell me ... I might help you as well

help me with what? Am i missing some joker here?

 

[desicad]

help me with what? Am i missing some joker here?

[hilar][hilar]..........