How to make Pakistani women part of the work -force?

ح

حکایت جنوں

Guest
A lot of Pakistani women are sitting at home for a long period of time. To the best of my knowledge, Pakistan has not been in a worse position that it is today. Why did not the Islamic tehzeeb made progress in Pakistan? Women are sitting at home, why could they not teach their kids that it's wrong to kill another muslim?
Because a colonial secular corrupt elite of Pakistan has destroyed every potential of this country. They literally raped Pakistan. They used shallow slogans of Islam and Islamic civilization for their petty interests and this utilitarianism they learnt from their colonial masters. The destruction of Pakistan has nothing to do with women living in homes.
 
ح

حکایت جنوں

Guest
I think that you are intellectually challenged. It will take you some time for my comment to sink into you. I'll wait until then and be patient.
hahahaha there couldn't be more naive answer than the one you gave.......
 

sher_khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
sher_khan And think about it!!! The centers of capitalism are the big cities in the world especially in the developed world and it is actually here the family system is in its worst condition. I think that you should be at least creative to answer this question first How can we save the family from the ills of capitalism before advising women to join hand with men in the office or factory on equal basis. I am not against working women. They are even needed in many fields but I think there work places should be separate and they should be given special grants, enough time and a loose time table for work so that they can pay attention to their family as well. Our children need mothers love badly and not the artificiality of a baby sitter.....We need humans not machines which West has produced in last two centuries due to which the world is on the brink of destruction


This is not a thread to either condone or condemn capitalism. That's a different debate. If women doctors are on the field helping reduce child mortality rates, the child or the mother does not inquire if the doctor is a capitalist or a communist. If a female engineer builds a school, the children don't ask how much profit was made on bricks or not.

I can condemn capitalism way better than you. But that is not the object of this thread. If you want to discuss capitalism, start a new thread please.
 
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ح

حکایت جنوں

Guest
This is not a thread to either condone or condemn capitalism. That's is a different debate. If women doctors are on the field helping reduce child mortality rates, the child or the mother does not inquire if the doctor is a capitalist or a communist. If a female engineer builds a school, the children don't ask how much profit was made on bricks or not.

I can condemn capitalism way better than you. But that is not the object of this thread. If you want to discuss capitalism, start a new thread please.
I really doubt that you can condemn capitalism because it doesn't even seem to me from your comments that you have any understanding of capitalism. The issue of women working with men in every field on equal basis is directly related to capitalism and its institutions and thats why I raised my point.....
 
ح

حکایت جنوں

Guest
Naive commentary deserves naive responses. Confusing the the degree of female representation in the workforce with capitalism and other financial models is pathetic.
hahaha you at least admit that your responses were naive. The female representation in the workforce in the modern world is directly related to capitalism and its instituions
 
ح

حکایت جنوں

Guest
sher_khan And only an "intellectual" like you can see the issue of workforce and human resource separated from the economic models and their influence on the morality of societies
 

sher_khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
sher_khan And only an "intellectual" like you can see the issue of workforce and human resource separated from the economic models and their influence on the morality of societies

Only a "non-naive" person like you can imagine that the female representation is more of an economic model issue rather than a social one. As I said earlier, I will wait and be patient.
 

sher_khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
sher_khan And only an "intellectual" like you can see the issue of workforce and human resource separated from the economic models and their influence on the morality of societies

Only a "non-naive" person like you can imagine that the female representation is more of an economic model issue rather than a social one. As I said earlier, I will wait and be patient.
 
ح

حکایت جنوں

Guest
Only a "non-naive" person like you can imagine that the female representation is more of an economic model issue rather than a social one. As I said earlier, I will wait and be patient.
So you think that social issues are not the product of economic systems....This is too much....Now I think We leave it on other people reading this thread to decide who was really more patient....khush raho munna bhai aur lage raho :)
 

sher_khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
So you think that social issues are not the product of economic systems....This is too much....Now I think We leave it on other people reading this thread to decide who was really more patient....khush raho munna bhai aur lage raho :)


No they are not always......that's exactly why a lot of people were condoning the murders committed by jack the ripper in capitalist england. He was killing prostitutes. Many capitalists english condone his actions without taking into consideration that it was the economic conditions of england which made those women prostitutes.

I'll remain patient, until this one sinks into you.
 
ح

حکایت جنوں

Guest
No they are not always......that's exactly why a lot of people were condoning the murders committed by jack the ripper in capitalist england. He was killing prostitutes. Many capitalists english condone his actions without taking into consideration that it was the economic conditions of england which made those women prostitutes.

I'll remain patient, until this one sinks into you.
Bhai kion behes baraye behes ker rahe hain... You don't even know what you are writing. You gave yourself an example of social ill which is the direct outcome of economic structures Now is this actually your logic that the crimes of Jack were not the outcome of economic system??... Ok just tell me in which conditions are the social issues not the product of economic systems???
 

sher_khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
Bhai kion behes baraye behes ker rahe hain... You don't even know what you are writing. You gave yourself an example of social ill which is the direct outcome of economic structures Now is this actually your logic that the crimes of Jack were not the outcome of economic system??... Ok just tell me in which conditions are the social issues not the product of economic systems???

LOL yes, I don't know what I am writing, you are Socrates.

The limitation and lack of comprehension that you possess is exemplary. The gist of my example was that the prostitution was a moral/social issue for the people who were critiquing the prostitutes not the prostitutes themselves. For them it was just another way to survive. Prostitution is found under all economic models and are condemned at different degrees in different societies. If economic models were the only impetus behind the formulation of society's moral/social values then the approach towards prostitution would be significantly different under different models.

An other example which also proves that social values are not always a function of economic models, in an opposite direction of social criticism, would be Canada and Cuba. Canada is significantly capitalist and Cuba is purely socialist/communist. The people in both the countries couldn't care less about prostitution.

Forget prostitution. Take the example of Pakistan. Men are committing suicides in Pakistan because they can't feed their wives and children. Wives of these men are not allowed to go and work at other people's houses or get a cleaning job at an office because of "log kya kahain gay?" "Log Kya kahain gay" is neither a product of capitalism nor of socialism. Do you think that hijab is a function of some economic model too?

Lastly, please do some research on Jack. He was not killing those prostitutes because of their chosen profession only.
 

sher_khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
Because a colonial secular corrupt elite of Pakistan has destroyed every potential of this country. They literally raped Pakistan. They used shallow slogans of Islam and Islamic civilization for their petty interests and this utilitarianism they learnt from their colonial masters. The destruction of Pakistan has nothing to do with women living in homes.

weren't the female family members of these colonial secular corrupt elite of pakistan also staying at home? Why couldn't they learn any thing from stay-at-home mothers, sisters and wives? Why couldn't these females teach them morality? I am assuming that these females were not outside their homes and they were spending most of their time with their children.
 
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awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
weren't the female family members of these colonial secular corrupt elite of pakistan also staying at home? Why couldn't they learn any thing from stay-at-home mothers, sisters and wives? Why couldn't these females teach them morality? I am assuming that these females were not outside their homes and they were spending most of their time with their children.


No one bothers to reply to such straight questions.

In mein say kisi ke behn 3 under 10yrs old bachon kay sath bewah nahi hui aur us per bachon ko paalnay ke zimaaydari nahi aye is leaye ye bari asaani say keh detay hein keh women shouldnt work.

Everyone here lives in some delusional fantasy of a perfect world where man-o-salwa drops from heaven.
 
ح

حکایت جنوں

Guest
LOL yes, I don't know what I am writing, you are Socrates.

The limitation and lack of comprehension that you possess is exemplary. The gist of my example was that the prostitution was a moral/social issue for the people who were critiquing the prostitutes not the prostitutes themselves. For them it was just another way to survive. Prostitution is found under all economic models and are condemned at different degrees in different societies. If economic models were the only impetus behind the formulation of society's moral/social values then the approach towards prostitution would be significantly different under different models.

An other example which also proves that social values are not always a function of economic models, in an opposite direction of social criticism, would be Canada and Cuba. Canada is significantly capitalist and Cuba is purely socialist/communist. The people in both the countries couldn't care less about prostitution.

Forget prostitution. Take the example of Pakistan. Men are committing suicides in Pakistan because they can't feed their wives and children. Wives of these men are not allowed to go and work at other people's houses or get a cleaning job at an office because of "log kya kahain gay?" "Log Kya kahain gay" is neither a product of capitalism nor of socialism. Do you think that hijab is a function of some economic model too?

Lastly, please do some research on Jack. He was not killing those prostitutes because of their chosen profession only.
You actually don't know the difference between prostitution as a personal choice (due to some economic problem or just to earn money) and as an industry in the capitalist world. For example, read the statistics where prostitution exists as an industry. In the communist countries like USSR and Cuba, prostitution was nearly ceased to exist while in capitalist countries it has become an industry and for example in europe, mostly girls of relatively poor and less developed East europe come to Western Europe and are involved in sex industry. So my conclusion is Prostitution existed in the early history of mankind due to economic problems and adopted by slave girls and lower economic strata of societies but in capitalist world, it has increased enormously as a sex industry. This is how economic system of different ages shaped prostitution. You are fond of talking without any knowledge.
This "log kia kahen gey' mentality exists largely in the urban lower middle classes otherwise poor families in the villages and cities work with their men. And read my earlier comments carefully, I wasn't against working of women. I was critiquing the economic settings of capitalism where women and men are seen as commodities and not as humans or members of a family. And yes I think hijab is also related to economic system. Morality of every economic age is different from the other.
 
ح

حکایت جنوں

Guest
weren't the female family members of these colonial secular corrupt elite of pakistan also staying at home? Why couldn't they learn any thing from stay-at-home mothers, sisters and wives? Why couldn't these females teach them morality? I am assuming that these females were not outside their homes and they were spending most of their time with their children.
How can you forget the great impact of colonialism on education, family values of our elites and urban middle classes? The new economic change introduced by colonialism changed the social character of theses classes in the attraction of economic gains. This was the era where women of these classes also started taking education with men and thus went through a process of change. Colonial authorities through educational institutions, political propaganda and economic incentives changed the elites. ANd this is why a new socio-political world came into being in the decolonized societies which no doubt gave them economic development but at the same time divided these societies on the basis of races and religions and violence on the social level became a special character of these societies. India Pakistan and African countries are the example of this social mutation caused by the economic change......
 

sher_khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
You actually don't know the difference between prostitution as a personal choice (due to some economic problem or just to earn money) and as an industry in the capitalist world. For example, read the statistics where prostitution exists as an industry. In the communist countries like USSR and Cuba, prostitution was nearly ceased to exist while in capitalist countries it has become an industry and for example in europe, mostly girls of relatively poor and less developed East europe come to Western Europe and are involved in sex industry. So my conclusion is Prostitution existed in the early history of mankind due to economic problems and adopted by slave girls and lower economic strata of societies but in capitalist world, it has increased enormously as a sex industry. This is how economic system of different ages shaped prostitution. You are fond of talking without any knowledge.
This "log kia kahen gey' mentality exists largely in the urban lower middle classes otherwise poor families in the villages and cities work with their men. And read my earlier comments carefully, I wasn't against working of women. I was critiquing the economic settings of capitalism where women and men are seen as commodities and not as humans or members of a family. And yes I think hijab is also related to economic system. Morality of every economic age is different from the other.


You are fond of telling people they don't know anything, aren't you? Your analysis is so divorced from reality that it is embarrassing to read it. Countries like Cuba were and continue to be sex tourism countries.


Furthermore, contrary to the popular belief, women or even men don't always pursue prostitution because of purely economic reasons. Your analysis stands true only in certain societies and regions where poverty is found at obscene levels and women are treated as inferiors (that is, they can't get a decent job). However, your analysis fails miserably in societies which support the poor and the weak. For example, in Canada there is an appropriate welfare system for the economically weak people to get by financially. Even the refugees (non-citizens) in Canada can get free housing and monthly cash support. A person pursues prostitution in Canada not to survive economically but to finance their expensive hobbies (drugs, expensive cars, expensive handbags, HD Tvs, SmartPhones, etc.). Needless to say, some people pursue prostitution because it is a very efficient way to make a lot of money. These people don't want to work the boring nine to five jobs and make only one-tenth of what they can make by only working three hours a day. Majority of them are not uneducated either.
In Pakistan as well, there are prostitutes who drive very expensive cars.
The bottom-line is that these people don't have the leaned skills to make as much money as they want and therefore they choose the profession of prostitution. It's not a survival battle. Hence, it is even more important that people should not stay at home after education. Instead they should contribute to the society by working and should continue the process of personal development.

Furthermore, it's a myth that only the poor immigrants are involved in prostitution. This image is portrayed by the racist media. Got to Las Vegas, you will find more american born and bred prostitutes than the immigrants. The immigrants are an easy target for criticism because they are easy to isolate visually. Also, the immigrants don't have that many acquaintances in the new country therefore they do it openly. Meanwhile, people who are born in a country do it in a more discreet way.

How the hell is woman a commodity if she is reducing a morality rate by helping a pregnant woman in a village? You know that a pregnant woman with complication can die if there is only a male doctor in the village, if her husband is a conservative guy? The problem with this argument between you and I is that you have forcibly involved capitalism in it. This is exactly why I asked you to start a new thread.

No, Hijab was never a product of economics. Yes, women were considered a property and were often abducted in the past. However, the issue was the same in the Mongol society but there was no significant Hijab there.
Hijab is a function of lack of trust. Lack of trust in women who are considered inferior, can't protect themselves and can't control their lust. Lack of trust in men who can't control their animal urges and instincts.
 

sher_khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
How can you forget the great impact of colonialism on education, family values of our elites and urban middle classes? The new economic change introduced by colonialism changed the social character of theses classes in the attraction of economic gains. This was the era where women of these classes also started taking education with men and thus went through a process of change. Colonial authorities through educational institutions, political propaganda and economic incentives changed the elites. ANd this is why a new socio-political world came into being in the decolonized societies which no doubt gave them economic development but at the same time divided these societies on the basis of races and religions and violence on the social level became a special character of these societies. India Pakistan and African countries are the example of this social mutation caused by the economic change......

No, these countries have two things in common. They all think women as inferiors and women are comparatively less educated than men. Needless to say, your comments are contradictory. If we follow your logic then the pursuit of economic gains by the colonialism and the corrupt elite of south asia would have put more women on the field to make more money.

For the last time, if you want to discuss capitalism, start a new thread.
 
ح

حکایت جنوں

Guest
No, these countries have two things in common. They all think women as inferiors and women are comparatively less educated than men. Needless to say, your comments are contradictory. If we follow your logic then the pursuit of economic gains by the colonialism and the corrupt elite of south asia would have put more women on the field to make more money.

For the last time, if you want to discuss capitalism, start a new thread.
My answer is yes, My logic is correct. They tried a lot and they are partially successful at least in the Urban environment of capitalism in putting more and more women in the market. And for the last time, I am not talking about capitalism, I am talking about the emancipation of woman in the capitalist settings.
 
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