Great news for all Pakistanis : کرم، شیعہ سنی بھائی بھائی کے نعرے

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Newt0n

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
bhaio, mere khayaal say dua ki jaye aisay logo k baray may k Allah inhay mazeed khoon raizi say bachaye.... itni lahaasil behas say kia hona hay, wo to phir bhai bhai bangaye aur hamaray phaday hain k khatam nahi horahay!!!
 

Logical

Voter (50+ posts)
Then what is real conclusion of these verses, please be gracious to tell.

the burden of proof is on YOU SIR.

you were the one who presented this verse in favor of your argument.

In reply to your claims, I poked holes in your argument.

your turn please..

(Logic 101 dude!)
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
the burden of proof is on YOU SIR.

you were the one who presented this verse in favor of your argument.

In reply to your claims, I poked holes in your argument.

your turn please..
(Logic 101 dude!)
Your logic place is little bit narrow to understand the conveyed message.
 

Logical

Voter (50+ posts)
Your logic place is little bit narrow to understand the conveyed message.
still waiting for a logical rebuttal to my cross-examination of your earlier claim.

mind you, i can very well present the arguments in proper logical notation, in case you're interested.. i can use both classical (Aristotelian) or modern structures to formulate the problem..

and not to forget, may be there are smarter people on the forum who would be interested in our arguments...
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
still waiting for a logical rebuttal to my cross-examination of your earlier claim.
mind you, i can very well present the arguments in proper logical notation, in case you're interested.. i can use both classical (Aristotelian) or modern structures to formulate the problem..
and not to forget, may be there are smarter people on the forum who would be interested in our arguments...

Listen. Your quotation of Kuwait and other country is nothing but a straw. Perhaps you are intentionally naive to
understand that:
a) Identifying in other than the title which Allah(SWT) has granted to Believers is equal to not
obeying the Command of Allah.
b) Making Divisions/Sects/ is against the teaching of Islam and as per Quran, it is equal
to "making disbelief (Kufar) after belief(Imman);
c) The punishment is very severe.
d) Everyone who identify himself/herself other than the Muslim is in this grip without any exception.

If you wish to discuss something with me, better get the proof from Quran, if u ever done
so, i do not remember at all? Therefore form your opinion as you wish.
 

dukelondon

Senator (1k+ posts)
@babadeena

The points you have raised are correct. However, you MUST understand that conflict is part of human nature and hence you can see not only the Shia Sunni and Wahabi divide but also further division between these three main sects. This has not just happened to Islam but to every religion and every civilization. So, expecting the whole world to be following 100% same stuff is not realistic. Even two brothers in the same house have different thoughts and follow slightly different paths. The most important thing to be a Muslim is believing in Allah(SWT) as the sole creator of this universe and in the finality of Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH and His Holy Progeny) and believe in the Noble Quran. The other differences are regarding human beings / personalities so instead of asking Logical to provide you with logical explanations, its about time you start thinking rationally and come out of your perfect dream world mate.
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Unity between Shia and Sunni can be possible, only and only, if Shia stop abusing Sahabah (RA) and Ummat-ul-Maumineen (RA) and start following Quraan and Sunnah ONLY.

 
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Newt0n

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
@Pakistan 1947 ----- mere bhai phir wohi kahania shru kardi aap nay..... Me nay ai aur thread may b aap say poocha tha k Ahleybait (as) k time per aap ko taqwa yaad ajata hay but Sahaba aur Umhaat ul Momineen k time per aap ko nisbat yaad rehjati hay... akhir ye masla kia hay... Panjetan Paak ki baari may Huzoor ki nisbat say koi farak nahi parta etc etc type ki batain aajati hain, but Sahaba k time per yehi nisbat ka rona rotay nazar aatay hain log.... yeh conflict meri samj say bahar hay....

aur Abusing Sahaba is wrong infact Abusing anyone is wrong... but there is a difference in abusing and stating facts bro!!! If u r against abusing then ok i m wid u....

Secondlly, there is a lot in Shia ideology than what u think it is, but for tht u have to read about it bro as much as u can...
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
@babadeena
The points you have raised are correct. However, you MUST understand that conflict is part of human nature and hence you can see not only the Shia Sunni and Wahabi divide but also further division between these three main sects. This has not just happened to Islam but to every religion and every civilization. So, expecting the whole world to be following 100% same stuff is not realistic. Even two brothers in the same house have different thoughts and follow slightly different paths. The most important thing to be a Muslim is believing in Allah(SWT) as the sole creator of this universe and in the finality of Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH and His Holy Progeny) and believe in the Noble Quran. The other differences are regarding human beings / personalities so instead of asking Logical to provide you with logical explanations, its about time you start thinking rationally and come out of your perfect dream world mate.

@Dukelondon,
It is not question of my perfect dream world, rather these are the guidelines or rules
ordained by nothing less than one the Almighty Allah. This is total illusion if someone thinks
that while ignoring or disobeying the clear cut commands of Allah, their ships can sail
smoothly with their sect banners. Mutual disillusion or self-deception it is, nothing else.
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Unity between Shia and Sunni can be possible, only and only, if Shia stop abusing Sahabah (RA) and Ummat-ul-Maumineen (RA) and start following Quraan and Sunnah ONLY.
The problem is that if you remove "hate, cursing Sahabah (RA) and others" from Shia religion, there is nothing left in it!
I think the moment Shias or even Sunnis or anybody else will start accepting the Golden
Quranic principle that "Oh Our Lord, owners of the Sovereignty and Kingdom, you grants
kingdom to whom you will and you withdraw this kingdom from whom you will".
Shia's dillema is that they do not accept this concept and are of the view
that Imamiat had/has the sole right to govern. This was/is/is going to be the
Fundamental Difference of their, with all others.
 

Logical

Voter (50+ posts)
a) Identifying in other than the title which Allah(SWT) has granted to Believers is equal to not
obeying the Command of Allah.
b) Making Divisions/Sects/ is against the teaching of Islam and as per Quran, it is equal
to "making disbelief (Kufar) after belief(Imman);
c) The punishment is very severe.
d) Everyone who identify himself/herself other than the Muslim is in this grip without any exception.



@LOGICAL,

After my post (32), still waiting how much you are still LOGICAL.


babadeena

I must admit, I don't have ANY PROBLEM with any of what you wrote in the quotation.

There's no logical hole in the argument you make: i.e. Making sects is unislamic. I have not advocated firqa-parasti in any of the postings in this thread.

My only problem remains unresolved: Every Firqa claims to be the original form, and the rest as being deviants.

Here's what I wrote that set off this discussion on Al-Anaam 65:
Every firqa claims that we are on the right path. Every one says 'it is the OTHER SIDE ' that created firqa parasti.

so what's left to discuss is 'how the avoid exterminating those who you think are on the wrong path'..
In response you posted Al-Anaam 65 (which shows firqa-parasti as a form of Allah's Azab).

If you think that Allah's Azab (causing muslims to fight each other) cannot be escaped ,then I have many exceptions to quote, where different sects of MUSLIMS DO GET ALONG and not kill each other. Does that mean Allah's Azab has been lifted from them?
 
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Baseer Khan

Voter (50+ posts)
To all those DayDreamers who are chanting slogans in favor of successful Peace Agreement:

First of all I would like to suggest that those directly linked to the Valley of Parachinar should comment as they know the real situation better than everyone.

Secondly, you all should know that Sunnis of Parachinar who left their homes after the planned atrocities and barbarian acts committed against them in 2007 and since then, they are living in different cities of Pakistan. Their depart was the main reason behind blockade of Thall Parachinar Road and unrest in the area.

Surprisingly, they are completely ignored in this recent agreement and their demands for their rehabilitation and restoration of their trust were abandoned by the idiots and so called parliamentarians and Jirga members, who are dreaming of a long lasting peace without pleasing their conditional return.

I agree with brother Armani and I do sincerely suggest that a Fact Finding mission to be sent to the area before dancing on the Peace Tunes. It isnt easy to convince a family whose sons have been slaughtered and its so idiotic to tell them return to your homes, because Rehman Malik has stamped the peace agreement and local talibans have supported, neither Talibans have been affected nor any one from Munir Orakzai family.

Parachinar Sunni residents will stick to their justifiable rights and will not return to their homes unless their demands are endorsed so without their return, all your peace agreements (by idiots) are useless.
 

Newt0n

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
I think the moment Shias or even Sunnis or anybody else will start accepting the Golden
Quranic principle that "Oh Our Lord, owners of the Sovereignty and Kingdom, you grants
kingdom to whom you will and you withdraw this kingdom from whom you will".
Shia's dillema is that they do not accept this concept and are of the view
that Imamiat had/has the sole right to govern. This was/is/is going to be the
Fundamental Difference of their, with all others.

sorry I might be getting confused here, but what do u mean to portray by using tht aayat? If Phiroun in a King and since Allah has given him tht post u think he is the right person for it? May b i m getting the wrong message here thats y i m asking.... The words "He(Allah) Grants Kingdom" what do u think this means?
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
sorry I might be getting confused here, but what do u mean to portray by using tht aayat? If Phiroun in a King and since Allah has given him tht post u think he is the right person for it? May b i m getting the wrong message here thats y i m asking.... The words "He(Allah) Grants Kingdom" what do u think this means?

Are we discussing right or wrong person for king. You wish to get rules from the
start of this universe when Pharon type people were there or from the day when
Allah said "Today I have completed your religion". From this day onward,
the verse I quoted apply. Now there was no automatically right of any
personality, dynasty, tribe, or caste to rule. That discretion is with Allah.
 

Newt0n

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Are we discussing right or wrong person for king. You wish to get rules from the
start of this universe when Pharon type people were there or from the day when
Allah said "Today I have completed your religion". From this day onward,
the verse I quoted apply. Now there was no automatically right of any
personality, dynasty, tribe, or caste to rule. That discretion is with Allah.

mmmmm!!! ..... U mean that before tht Allah didnt had the sovereignity and suddenly after millions of years later in 9 hijri Allah decided to take the decision in his hand? from which part of the aayat did u got this idea? Coz the kingship or khilafat tht Allah gives is seperate.... or chalo after tht, YAZEED, HALAKU KHAN and lot of curropt names like tht are the deserving kings or the kings from ALLAH???

The basic reason i am asking is bcoz u r quoting an aayat which clearly indicates tht Allah is the one who gives Khilafat thts what v say Imams and Anbiya are for... but u r pointing the Khalifa's or Kings tht r on the throne or publically elected ppl!!

for e.g. (just to b clear what i m saying) Hz Ibrahim is the selected IMAM by ALLAH--- but NAMROOD is the king of tht time... Hz.Moosa is Allah's Khalifa of the time and Haroon his minister but Phiraun is the King.... I hope u get my point, the King or Khalifa appointed by Allah is not necessarily the one sitting on the throne..... I read an aayat somewhere while quoting a history story, dont know the exct reference tht u they wont find any change in Allah's law (u know many quranic sites hope u can quote the proper translation).... so if Allah;s Law doesnt changes, how can u say tht from when does any law starts applying and when it stops....

Also one more thing the last two lines of ur message..... U r ryt no particular dynasty has thhe ryt to rule.... one has to be chosen by Allah and they only way i see tht in Quran is either Allah himself nominating someone or someone being nominated by the Nabi (like Haroon (as)), elections is not the ryt way to recognize Allah's will.... n the only persons I remember through hadith is they Ahleybait(as) who as per Huzoor(as) are the most knowledgeable and the ones whom this Ummat shall follow and according to Quran Muslims are bound to love, and as per Quran are the Siddiques..... m i ryt this time?
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
@NewtON,
I can understand your cult theory and resentment you feel by my post on the subject.
but fact is fact. The Day the religion of Islam was completed, After prophet (PBUH), No personality,
dynasty, tribe, clan etc was divined to rule the Ummah. It was sole discretion of Allah. He
can grant it to anyone and takes it away from anyone. Many examples are there. If Allah
wishes to grant kingdom to any person, circumstances are automatically created for him,
and on the opposite it happen always if He cancels the kingdom from anyone.
This is the main difference what your cult does not accept.
 
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