Money supply is dependent on few factor, the most important of it is honesty of leaders, take the case of PIA, it has been looted blind and the result is disrespect and loss, take the case of steel mill looted and result is insults and lost money, take the case of railways, looted and the result is failed railways. in Canada CN rail makes bundle as it moves goods trains all night and day helps economy and money supply from businesses, Pakistan is a very fertile country but all its land has been wasted no misused and abuse, in todays world if you have food you are a star as every body wants food, Pakistan could become big food exporter, but it has all been wasted and totally annihilated as all the famers have moved into big cities. none of the leaders have ever thought about these things, they are busy fighting and are busy throwing mud at each other.
Bill Still speaks at The Multifaceted Global Crises of Riba: Resilience, Response & Reform in Malays
- Thread starter AsifAmeer
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The difference between you and a bucket of sh!t is a bucket. Even you know damn well you're full of it.
I wouldnt be this harsh on you if you hadnt taken God's name in vain. If you have anything to share, why take God's name in vain? WHY? Do you have a shred of conscious?
Its best you read more and write less. And I dont mean read on this forum. I meant read books..
It is not only ZH. There are many who are promoting Gold Standard notably among them - Sheikh Imran Hosein and Umar Ibrahim Vadillo. As for Shariah Compliant Banking - well it is nothing but back-door riba - I agree with you over here. But when you say Idiotic enuff - without any argument - it sounds very idiotic on your part.
@ASQR1 @AsifAmeer
As a matter of fact - when Allah's system is mentioned - it does not mean it will automatically run by itself if we just put it in place. I believe it has be run by people who are honest enuff and Conscious of Allah (Muttaqi as the Quran calls them). Whatever system is in place - if it is handled by either incompetent or corrupt people, it is bound to collapse. I have come to the opinion that economics cannot be studied as a whole, but economics is actually a part of a further bigger whole and that is the whole Islamic System - it includes education system, economic system, social system and many other system.
Having said that, I still feel that the Gold Standard is a solution - but with proper leader in place like @ASQR1 mentioned. What Mr. Still mentioned is that it will only result in stability, if leaders want it to be stable - but without proper leaders running it it will not be stable - but then without competent / God-Conscious leader what system will - will there be any system which will result in stable money supply, even if the people handling the system are corrupt/incompetent?
As a matter of fact - when Allah's system is mentioned - it does not mean it will automatically run by itself if we just put it in place. I believe it has be run by people who are honest enuff and Conscious of Allah (Muttaqi as the Quran calls them). Whatever system is in place - if it is handled by either incompetent or corrupt people, it is bound to collapse. I have come to the opinion that economics cannot be studied as a whole, but economics is actually a part of a further bigger whole and that is the whole Islamic System - it includes education system, economic system, social system and many other system.
Having said that, I still feel that the Gold Standard is a solution - but with proper leader in place like @ASQR1 mentioned. What Mr. Still mentioned is that it will only result in stability, if leaders want it to be stable - but without proper leaders running it it will not be stable - but then without competent / God-Conscious leader what system will - will there be any system which will result in stable money supply, even if the people handling the system are corrupt/incompetent?
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If you donot concur with me than so be it, but donot patronize me, I am saying thing that are and will not be accepted by likes of you as you are totally brain washed by some self interest groups who write cacamany things and have you on their side so that you also can be part of their un-Godly ways to full full their greedy desires.
by saying that Allah Does not come into money game, you sir are doing exectly what these athirst want you do.
I know that you donot believe in doing thing in an honest way but if you look around all those things that have been successfully completed were done truthfully and honestly.
now you say name one, I will let sweat about it and than after you answer me I will tell you succes stories that have happened due to honesty.
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huh..? and what?You said MONEY SUPPLY depends on EXPORTS.You have no idea what you are saying. You are simply dragging God to hide your incompetency. Not everyone is a expert in every subject and should speak accordingly.Tum ne to Khuda ko nahi chora.. Why should I expect you not to lie against me..?
ya, many, but plz dont call them people. do you really think any of these jokers has the knowledge or the research or even the wisdom to understand how the global economy works? ye sab ghar pe baith ke internet par do char batein padh lene se koi expert nahin ban jata. which of these have any degree in econ or have made any contribution to econ thought? and gold standard could have worked in the 18 or 19th centruy and before. it cannot and will not work in the post WW2 20th century and certainly not the 21st century.
it is a slow sluggish and incredibly inefficient and high friction system. its like saying that replace all the planes with horse carts. just want work. a dynamic economy like today just cannot be sustained by a gold standard. the economy will have to shrink back to an amalgamation of economies of several nation states, rather than a global economy like today, for anything resembling gold standard to work. it is also super prone to liquidity traps. anyways i do not even want to go on.
its everyone's decision who they want to read anf follow. i had rather stand on the shoulders of giants, than the toes of pygmies like zaid hamid or hossein or whatnot...but hey maybe thats just me.
May Allah Give You The Wisdom To See Beyond Yourself.
And btw, for your information - both Vadillo and Imran Hosein are adequately qualified to comment on what they say.
The mannerism that you have shown towards two respectable people!!!!! How unfortunate!!!! I don't want to say anything - else I mite enter into an unnecessary argument
Peace be upon You!
And btw, for your information - both Vadillo and Imran Hosein are adequately qualified to comment on what they say.
The mannerism that you have shown towards two respectable people!!!!! How unfortunate!!!! I don't want to say anything - else I mite enter into an unnecessary argument
Peace be upon You!
i agree. what i think of hossein is even worse than what i said. so i better keep quiet if only to not offend you. and dare i say i do not need allah's or anyone else's wisdom, especially if it is the hossein variety.
You are just using my analysis to answer me, so far u only have said all derogatory things about me, but you have not put one single word to tell about your so called perfect ideas.
i am starting to think that you are here to oppose me and to insult and that is that, these are the deduction I have arrived at after reading all your answers to me.
Try making some sense and not making insults, but than when I read that you do not differnciate between gay marriage and straight marriage, than one concludes that you do not believe in Islam, because any one believing in Islam will refrain from saying such cacamany things.
so unless you have answers to my posts, there is no need to carry on this charade of yours which is meant to insult and degrade, so go away but if you must stay than talk like a Muslim Pakiatani who does not equate gay marriages with straight marriages. U sir are a very strange and overbearing person. You need to learn some eticates of being a Muslim and a Pakistani...................
:smashfreakB:
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Heated debate but without much info. Or at least I couldn't understand much.
Started reading Black Swan by Nasim .As per this author all economists and financial gurus know nothing.
His list of losers include Nobel winners too. He predicted 2008 crisis.
Regarding Islamic banking or Econ, not much is known. We need to get out there and gain knowledge.
Started reading Black Swan by Nasim .As per this author all economists and financial gurus know nothing.
His list of losers include Nobel winners too. He predicted 2008 crisis.
Regarding Islamic banking or Econ, not much is known. We need to get out there and gain knowledge.
2 types of wealth. Real wealth i.e. land, machinery, fresh water/oil resources, means of production
Then we have financial wealth. This is for the sick minds to chase. Here' how financial wealth looks like
Thats right.. its an inverted ponzi scheme.
Then we have financial wealth. This is for the sick minds to chase. Here' how financial wealth looks like
Thats right.. its an inverted ponzi scheme.
If you are going to take God's name in vain, my decency is out the window.
I bet you didnt even bother to watch the speech by Bill before commenting on it. Hena? Coz he shared how to control money supply. BY TYING MONEY SUPPLY TO POPULATION GROWTH. This was Milton Friedman's idea. Get it? Have you now answered your question which you had answered earlier (money supply tied to exports)
Boy, that is my signature line. Its to be read by those who have a sense of humor. You can safely skip trying to understand what Neither do I support gay marriage, nor do I support straight marriage. I believe in Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness means.
Dont be going around thumping chest in the name of Islam. You desecrated God's name by spreading misinformation knowing full well you didnt know what you were talking about.
I bet you didnt even bother to watch the speech by Bill before commenting on it. Hena? Coz he shared how to control money supply. BY TYING MONEY SUPPLY TO POPULATION GROWTH. This was Milton Friedman's idea. Get it? Have you now answered your question which you had answered earlier (money supply tied to exports)
Boy, that is my signature line. Its to be read by those who have a sense of humor. You can safely skip trying to understand what Neither do I support gay marriage, nor do I support straight marriage. I believe in Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness means.
Dont be going around thumping chest in the name of Islam. You desecrated God's name by spreading misinformation knowing full well you didnt know what you were talking about.
lol about the Economists and Consultants. His new book is out "ANTI-FRAGILE" .. O boy.. he doesnt forgive ANY economist.. Pure name callings. Yeah he had been going around telling everything that things are going to blow up. Infact the very 1st edition of the book ur reading came out in August 2007. Go thru the book and you will see his warnings on Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae..
About Islamic Banking. Nassim covers quite a bit about Imam Ghazali in his new book.. I how see him talk about converting debt into Equity. This is basically Islamic banking in its crudest form.
About Islamic Banking. Nassim covers quite a bit about Imam Ghazali in his new book.. I how see him talk about converting debt into Equity. This is basically Islamic banking in its crudest form.
if u can copy and paste, so can I,
read on these analyses and graphs, very fancy put together by those who you believe to be gurus of financial system but the same financial gurus looted the systyem because of their GREED, Let me name two for you. Madof.
the history banking system colaps Table 4.1
Banking Panics and Business Cycles
Height of Panic Nearest Previous Peak Notation
August 1814-January 1817" January 1812 War-related
April-May 1819 November 1818
May 1837 April 1837
October 1839-March 1842" March 1839
October 1857 May 1857
December 1861 September 1860 War-related
September 1873 September 1873
May 1884 May 1884
November 1890 November 1890
June-August 1893 April 1893
October 1896 March 1896
October 1907 September 1907
August-October 1914 May 1914 War-related
After studying one can see clearly it is a man made cleverly coined term to cover up their blunders.
WaMu Is Seized, Sold Off to J.P. Morgan, In Largest Failure in U.S. Banking History,
The failure of WaMu eclipsed what had long been America's largest bank bust on record, the 1984 collapse of Continental Illinois, which had $40 billion in assets.
Agassi blunders made due to greed and due to misuse of power.
time that J.P. Morgan, the second-largest U.S. bank in stock-market value, has been a buyer of last resort. In March, the New York company agreed to purchase Bear Stearns Cos., getting a $29 billion backstop from the federal government.
FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair said that WaMu's downward spiral "could have posed significant challenges without a ready buyer." Referring to J.P. Morgan's willingness to buy WaMu and absorb its shaky loans amid continuing debate over the $700 billion bailout package, she added: "Some are coming to Washington for help, others are coming to Washington to help."
Again deals are made to buy an entity which if allowed to die be better, but collusion comes in place and those making deals do it to think of bigger picture that of the country and freedom it provided for them.
read the supporting links and be enlightened. Again mismanagement and greed are the major factors.
Supporting Links, Resources, News
Rogoff: Taxpayers Will Owe $1 Trillion
Think $700 Billion Is the Limit? Think Again
Dodd: Congress Must Be Careful With Crisis
Foreign Banks Will Get Treasury Support Too
Bernanke, Paulson: Congress Must Move Now
Lockhart: GSE Oversight Powers Came Too Late
Bailout Crisis to Spur Asia Hedge Fund Shake-Out
So to enlighten you I must say this that Islamic banking is the way and that has to implemented the spirit of Religion by those who have common sense and are honest and humble to the core.
these so called managers have wreaked havoc due to their inability and greed, the name that pops up in recently is Madof.
I can write a book about the greed of these big writer of which you mentioned but no need to do it, the pity is that these guys do it regardless of the country well being and of Patriotism.
read on these analyses and graphs, very fancy put together by those who you believe to be gurus of financial system but the same financial gurus looted the systyem because of their GREED, Let me name two for you. Madof.
the history banking system colaps Table 4.1
Banking Panics and Business Cycles
Height of Panic Nearest Previous Peak Notation
August 1814-January 1817" January 1812 War-related
April-May 1819 November 1818
May 1837 April 1837
October 1839-March 1842" March 1839
October 1857 May 1857
December 1861 September 1860 War-related
September 1873 September 1873
May 1884 May 1884
November 1890 November 1890
June-August 1893 April 1893
October 1896 March 1896
October 1907 September 1907
August-October 1914 May 1914 War-related
After studying one can see clearly it is a man made cleverly coined term to cover up their blunders.
WaMu Is Seized, Sold Off to J.P. Morgan, In Largest Failure in U.S. Banking History,
The failure of WaMu eclipsed what had long been America's largest bank bust on record, the 1984 collapse of Continental Illinois, which had $40 billion in assets.
Agassi blunders made due to greed and due to misuse of power.
time that J.P. Morgan, the second-largest U.S. bank in stock-market value, has been a buyer of last resort. In March, the New York company agreed to purchase Bear Stearns Cos., getting a $29 billion backstop from the federal government.
FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair said that WaMu's downward spiral "could have posed significant challenges without a ready buyer." Referring to J.P. Morgan's willingness to buy WaMu and absorb its shaky loans amid continuing debate over the $700 billion bailout package, she added: "Some are coming to Washington for help, others are coming to Washington to help."
Again deals are made to buy an entity which if allowed to die be better, but collusion comes in place and those making deals do it to think of bigger picture that of the country and freedom it provided for them.
read the supporting links and be enlightened. Again mismanagement and greed are the major factors.
Supporting Links, Resources, News
Rogoff: Taxpayers Will Owe $1 Trillion
Think $700 Billion Is the Limit? Think Again
Dodd: Congress Must Be Careful With Crisis
Foreign Banks Will Get Treasury Support Too
Bernanke, Paulson: Congress Must Move Now
Lockhart: GSE Oversight Powers Came Too Late
Bailout Crisis to Spur Asia Hedge Fund Shake-Out
So to enlighten you I must say this that Islamic banking is the way and that has to implemented the spirit of Religion by those who have common sense and are honest and humble to the core.
these so called managers have wreaked havoc due to their inability and greed, the name that pops up in recently is Madof.
I can write a book about the greed of these big writer of which you mentioned but no need to do it, the pity is that these guys do it regardless of the country well being and of Patriotism.
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Heart, if you do not know how to interact with a non-muslim, dont do it. If you do not know how to respect someone or someone else's faith, do talk to that person.
I feel Guest took God's name in vain because of you. You are responsible for guest's uttered words. Why? because you are Muslim.
Guest, Sheikh Imran Hossein is one of the decent Islamic Scholars who actually does speak about finance. I am the kind of guy who read IMF papers at 2am. So listening to Imran Hossein, I dont think he gets the real picture but since Muslim Scholars have set such a low standard in Economics and Finance, IH sounds like a darn genius.
Gold is an 'infected' metal. I call it infected because 90% of world Gold supply sits in the vaults of Central banks. Sure it belongs to this party and that party but get what.. Know what Counter Party risk is? Make that risk 100% and the Central Banks own all the gold. They have the gold, they control the pricing, they control the global trade transactions. I feel the only honest money out there is BITCOIN.
Disclaimer : I hold positions in bitcoin.
I feel Guest took God's name in vain because of you. You are responsible for guest's uttered words. Why? because you are Muslim.
Guest, Sheikh Imran Hossein is one of the decent Islamic Scholars who actually does speak about finance. I am the kind of guy who read IMF papers at 2am. So listening to Imran Hossein, I dont think he gets the real picture but since Muslim Scholars have set such a low standard in Economics and Finance, IH sounds like a darn genius.
Gold is an 'infected' metal. I call it infected because 90% of world Gold supply sits in the vaults of Central banks. Sure it belongs to this party and that party but get what.. Know what Counter Party risk is? Make that risk 100% and the Central Banks own all the gold. They have the gold, they control the pricing, they control the global trade transactions. I feel the only honest money out there is BITCOIN.
Disclaimer : I hold positions in bitcoin.
I am sorry Asif but I do not wish to continue in this debate. Please keep me out of this thread since I do not know how to interact. If because of me, God's name has been used in Vain. I seek forgiveness from the All-Mighty Lord. Perhaps, now your able friend, Guest, may add some valuable comments to this thread.
Btw, as a matter of fact, I did not know that Guest was a non-muslim. Even if he is, I never spoke to him something derogatory about his faith whatever it is. If by just praying for him to My God (i.e. Allah) is so offending for him - then I don't know whether that is sensible.
You and Guest continue with the discussion. I am out of it.
Btw, as a matter of fact, I did not know that Guest was a non-muslim. Even if he is, I never spoke to him something derogatory about his faith whatever it is. If by just praying for him to My God (i.e. Allah) is so offending for him - then I don't know whether that is sensible.
You and Guest continue with the discussion. I am out of it.
Asif I apologize if you feel hurt by my strong language. basically i am a person from the far left who has historically been very tolerant to the extremist version of islam (which as of today is almost all of islam) explaining it away as opposition to western imperialism etc etc. you know the liberal left routine.
but over time as I have met more and more muslims, and been involved with them in antiwar demonstration, I have relaized that there is probably no community which is less deserving off my sympathy than muslims as a whole (I know I am casting too wide a net). they are first rate hypocrites on an average, they are vile supremacists and they have no sense of political correctness or politeness when talking about other communities/religions. on a whole a bunch of racist homophobic jew hating self important and supremacist people.
as a result over the years i have less and less patience with muslims in general, unless i know them personally. so i again apologize if my words hurt you, but they are for the generic muslim idiot. there is for me a kantian (public vs private use of reason) public use of speech and a private use of speech. muslims who are liberal and not like everything i wrote above, deserve my private use of free speech when I am much more nuanced. muslims at the large desreve my public use of free speech where i often use harsh words. i realise that i am treating a large group of people as a single entity with uniform characteristscs, but with years and years of saudi funded one ideology poisoning the minds of muslims all over the world, this caricature is as deserving as it ever will get.
but over time as I have met more and more muslims, and been involved with them in antiwar demonstration, I have relaized that there is probably no community which is less deserving off my sympathy than muslims as a whole (I know I am casting too wide a net). they are first rate hypocrites on an average, they are vile supremacists and they have no sense of political correctness or politeness when talking about other communities/religions. on a whole a bunch of racist homophobic jew hating self important and supremacist people.
as a result over the years i have less and less patience with muslims in general, unless i know them personally. so i again apologize if my words hurt you, but they are for the generic muslim idiot. there is for me a kantian (public vs private use of reason) public use of speech and a private use of speech. muslims who are liberal and not like everything i wrote above, deserve my private use of free speech when I am much more nuanced. muslims at the large desreve my public use of free speech where i often use harsh words. i realise that i am treating a large group of people as a single entity with uniform characteristscs, but with years and years of saudi funded one ideology poisoning the minds of muslims all over the world, this caricature is as deserving as it ever will get.
Heart, didnt intend to further drag you but Guest's recent comment has forced me to share an interesting event I would like to share with both of you guys.
There's this guy I knew. White guy.. kinda typical Texan.. U know what that means.. Anyways, he and I go out for lunch 1 day and all of a sudden he starts talking to me about Islam and his fears of Islam. and his reservations about Prophet Muhammed SAW. Those words were outright blasphemy .. I honestly didnt feel like finishing my lunch with him. I sat there.. I heard it all. Then when he was done talking, I explained him the Libertarian concept, he said thats a fair philosophy. Then I shared Islamic values. He listened quietly. Then i addresses his comments on Prophet's SAW's wives, their ages, and the details of wars and treatments of jews thru the Military Tribunal laws of the US Forces. He listened to the whole thing. In the end I asked him - "Would you say anything about my family knowing that would hurt me and sadden me?" He replied "No. And Asif I didnt intend to upset you with these issues". He stood from the table uttering these words "I guess there's always the other side of the story too"
Last I spoke to that guy, he was reading something about Imam Ghazali RA. Now think for a sec, can you imagine what would have happened to that guy if he had uttered those words in Pakistan?
Guest, its auright man. You know we humans are born with this defect - its called Reductionism. Look it up. Our minds try to simplify things because our minds hate complexity. Thats is why we lump things up, hence reductionism. I realized that not only can we not judge a group, we cant even judge a person because that very person can be right one time and wrong the other. It is the ACT that can be judged. Those ACTS that are performed on the basis of principles are the ones that move societies.
Dont think for a second that rednecks are only in the US. We got brown rednecks. Fanatics are found everything, every religion, nation.. I feel its inner reflection and self-criticism that resolves these issues. But self-ego is a though thing to fight mate..
There's this guy I knew. White guy.. kinda typical Texan.. U know what that means.. Anyways, he and I go out for lunch 1 day and all of a sudden he starts talking to me about Islam and his fears of Islam. and his reservations about Prophet Muhammed SAW. Those words were outright blasphemy .. I honestly didnt feel like finishing my lunch with him. I sat there.. I heard it all. Then when he was done talking, I explained him the Libertarian concept, he said thats a fair philosophy. Then I shared Islamic values. He listened quietly. Then i addresses his comments on Prophet's SAW's wives, their ages, and the details of wars and treatments of jews thru the Military Tribunal laws of the US Forces. He listened to the whole thing. In the end I asked him - "Would you say anything about my family knowing that would hurt me and sadden me?" He replied "No. And Asif I didnt intend to upset you with these issues". He stood from the table uttering these words "I guess there's always the other side of the story too"
Last I spoke to that guy, he was reading something about Imam Ghazali RA. Now think for a sec, can you imagine what would have happened to that guy if he had uttered those words in Pakistan?
Guest, its auright man. You know we humans are born with this defect - its called Reductionism. Look it up. Our minds try to simplify things because our minds hate complexity. Thats is why we lump things up, hence reductionism. I realized that not only can we not judge a group, we cant even judge a person because that very person can be right one time and wrong the other. It is the ACT that can be judged. Those ACTS that are performed on the basis of principles are the ones that move societies.
Dont think for a second that rednecks are only in the US. We got brown rednecks. Fanatics are found everything, every religion, nation.. I feel its inner reflection and self-criticism that resolves these issues. But self-ego is a though thing to fight mate..
