Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
I do apologise if I hurt any one feelings but I am not sure if Dr. Sahab is right while commenting on Ayats.
For example @1:30 Dr. Sahab said Rasool Allah pbuh took 3000 people from Madina against Mushreekeen Makkah in Gazwa e Uhud.
But if you read Tafseer Ibn e Kaseer then you come to know:
Secondly if I am not wrong then Dr. Sahab is emphasizing people from Madina consisted Munafiqeen who fled field.
But were they ALL muslims who FLED field?
Main character was Abdullah Ibn e Salul who provoked 300 people to flee, so here is some detail about him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd-Allah_ibn_Ubayy
Some young Muslims, however, argued that the Meccans should be fought outside of the city. Persuaded by the latter, Muhammad adopted an offensive strategy.
According to al-Waqidi, Ibn Ubayy also marched out with 300 of his own men and his remaining Jewish allies, but Muhammad ordered him to send the Jews back into the town, calling them "idolaters". Muhammad resumed his advance, while Ibn Ubayy led his men back to Medina, retiring to the strongholds.[1][15] According to Islamic tradition, he expressed his anger about his advice being rejected, proclaiming: "We do not know why we shall kill ourselves".[16] It has also been presumed that Ibn Ubayy turned back to protect the town or his own possessions.[15][17] According to Watt, Surah 3:166 interprets Ibn Ubayy's withdrawal as showing "cowardice and lack of belief in God and the Prophet"[1][18]
Muhammad's 700 men met the 3000 of the Quraish in the Battle of Uhud and were defeated. The Quraish, however, did not succeed in killing Muhammad, nor did they occupy the town of Medina, possibly because they knew it was guarded by Ibn Ubayy.[1][19] Rodinson suggests that the Meccans did not want to reforge the very unity of the population, which had been jeopardised by Muhammad's defeat.[20]
So may I ask brother Atensari to provide me reference of Tafseer where I can find details are true as told by Dr. Sahab!
May I ask if any one else commented about ACCOST of Ayats are actually Munagiqeen!
There are some other bits too which I find controversial but I am scared to be labelled KAFIR as I am not agreeing to "COMMENTS" of Dr. Sahab.
Please REMEMBER I am not agreeing to COMMENTS, in other words TAFSEER by Dr. Sahab only as I am well aware Atensari will blame me opposing Quran!
For example @1:30 Dr. Sahab said Rasool Allah pbuh took 3000 people from Madina against Mushreekeen Makkah in Gazwa e Uhud.
But if you read Tafseer Ibn e Kaseer then you come to know:
Secondly if I am not wrong then Dr. Sahab is emphasizing people from Madina consisted Munafiqeen who fled field.
But were they ALL muslims who FLED field?
Main character was Abdullah Ibn e Salul who provoked 300 people to flee, so here is some detail about him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd-Allah_ibn_Ubayy
Some young Muslims, however, argued that the Meccans should be fought outside of the city. Persuaded by the latter, Muhammad adopted an offensive strategy.
According to al-Waqidi, Ibn Ubayy also marched out with 300 of his own men and his remaining Jewish allies, but Muhammad ordered him to send the Jews back into the town, calling them "idolaters". Muhammad resumed his advance, while Ibn Ubayy led his men back to Medina, retiring to the strongholds.[1][15] According to Islamic tradition, he expressed his anger about his advice being rejected, proclaiming: "We do not know why we shall kill ourselves".[16] It has also been presumed that Ibn Ubayy turned back to protect the town or his own possessions.[15][17] According to Watt, Surah 3:166 interprets Ibn Ubayy's withdrawal as showing "cowardice and lack of belief in God and the Prophet"[1][18]
Muhammad's 700 men met the 3000 of the Quraish in the Battle of Uhud and were defeated. The Quraish, however, did not succeed in killing Muhammad, nor did they occupy the town of Medina, possibly because they knew it was guarded by Ibn Ubayy.[1][19] Rodinson suggests that the Meccans did not want to reforge the very unity of the population, which had been jeopardised by Muhammad's defeat.[20]
So may I ask brother Atensari to provide me reference of Tafseer where I can find details are true as told by Dr. Sahab!
May I ask if any one else commented about ACCOST of Ayats are actually Munagiqeen!
There are some other bits too which I find controversial but I am scared to be labelled KAFIR as I am not agreeing to "COMMENTS" of Dr. Sahab.
Please REMEMBER I am not agreeing to COMMENTS, in other words TAFSEER by Dr. Sahab only as I am well aware Atensari will blame me opposing Quran!
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Here is the first extract from Bayan-ul-Quran on this topic and numbers match with Ibn-a-Kaseer. I am not sure if any other Rawayat reports 3000/700.
You are wrong "Dr. Sahab is emphasizing people from Madina consisted Munafiqeen who fled field". People who left War Zone belong's to Madina, not all of them but the Munafaqeens only.
You are wrong "Dr. Sahab is emphasizing people from Madina consisted Munafiqeen who fled field". People who left War Zone belong's to Madina, not all of them but the Munafaqeens only.
Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
Tha Kuch Biyan Abhi, Abhi Kuch Biyan Hai
Goya Aap Ki Zaban Kay Neechay Zaban Hai!
Don't you think it could demage Dr. Sahab credibility!
If you don't mind may I ask you if you have read about "Isma ur Rijjal", principles to judge person reporting Hadith!
Our ancestors have laid down such principles while dealing Hadith then what about Quran!
Have you sense of remoteness of damages by words uttered by Dr. Sahab!
Let me give you an example, there are more or less 124,000 Prophets but why we use MORE OR LESS and not EXACT figure.
Reason is quite obvious, if we say exactly 124,000 and let's suppose there is One more to it then we have not accepted Him and if there is one less then we have accepted one Extra Prophet!
Now come to Dr. Sahab, he mentioned 700 were MUNAFIQ while according to Ibn e Kaseer there were 300 people who fled field and has said nothing whether all of them were muslim or only some!
As we know that Muslims had an agreement with Jews to fight in wars so it could be possibility that some of them were not Muslims at all who fled field!
Dr. Sahab has considered all those 300 as muslims and on top of that 400 more Munafiqeen while ACTUALLY there were 700 Muslims left in battlefield and all of them were true Muslims but according to Dr. Sahab 400 were Munifq so left with 300 true Muslims only.
Now please tell me if Dr. Sahab was present there or Dr. Sahab has Ilm e Ghaib that he found them Munafiq!
At least tell me criterion or parameter that enabled Dr. Sahab to judge Sahaba Karam!
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Is counting of person at specific event topic of Ism ur Rejaal too?
Giving numbers does not mean he is judging Sahaba Ikram, Munafaqeen were exact 300, 700 or more or less, he is not figure pointing anyone. Ibn-a-Kaseer also quoting exact number 1000 and 300 in fact they can be more or less.
Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
Yah Kon Sa Ishq Atensari Aap Ko Paida Ho Gaya
Jis Ke Hath Main Quran Deikha, Uss Pah Shaida Ho Gaya!
Someone is saying 700 in Uhud were munafiq and in reality there were 700 left with Rasool Allah pbuh so by that I may assume if not all some among 700 were munafiq!
If I am not then Dr. Sahab himself admitted once that he has not fully grip in Hadith so how come he may comment Ayat and announce 700 were munafiq!
At least tell me reference of Tafseer which says Accost of Ayat no. 137 or 121-180 (Check out 2nd part of particular lecture, you have shared 3rd one) is Munafiqeen!
I am sure if any Shia comments the same then you would have labelled him "Gustakh e Sahaba"!
I think title should be "Loog Asan Samjhtay Hain Quran Biyan Karna"!
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Example you quoted do not support your argument:
- Ibn-a-Kasser (RA) also quoted exact number 1000 and 300 instead more or less.
- منافق ابن ابی نے دغا بازی کی اور اپنی تین سو کی جماعت لے کر واپس مڑ گیا
لوگ آسان سمجتھے ہیں تنقید کرنا
We will continue when you quote example which support your argument.
I am still waiting for your belief regarding "Wahdat ul Wajood"
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Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
Lol!
Bhai Meri Jaan, he took 300 people but PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND MY QUESTION!
Were those 300 muslims or consisted some Jews as well!
Secondly I asked you to quote reference of such Tafseer which suggests Allah is accosting to Munafiqeen only in those Ayats!
Thirdly, I asked you to describe PARAMETER to judge any one as Munafiq!
Basis of segregation by Dr. Sahab about Makki Sahaba and Madni Sahaba may not be true!
I am sure you have read Bukhari Sharif, tell me very first Hadith who was it about!
Who was Muhajir Um e Qais?
Was he from Makkah or Madinah?
Even then can we call him "Munafiq" after being famous to be Muhajir Umm e Qais?
Woh Kartay Hain Chup Kay Tadbeer Issay Kahtay Hain
Ham Dhar Liye Jatay Hain Taqdeer Issay Kahtay Hain!
If same segregation was described by any Sunni Scholar then you had issued him a fatwa but it's your choice whom to held responsible!
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Please give me your version of Answers to your Questions.
Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
Bhai Jaan, I do apologise if I hurt your feeling but I take him Dr. Sahab as a human being and he may commit mistake while commenting Ayat Mubarkah.
For instance segregation by Dr. Sahab may not be appropriate as some one may feel Makki Sahaba were better muslims while Madni Sahaba were Munafiq!
My concern is Respect of Sahaba!
Please respect Sahaba Karam as they were far far better than us!
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
None except you felt that he is saying "Makki Sahaba were better then Madni", what do you feel about remaining 700, majority of them were Makki or Madni. My feeling is that Madni Sahaba were in majority.
Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
Oh Bhai, please, don't get upset and haste in commenting.
Let's analyse first Ghazwa, Ghazwa e Badr.
http://www.iqra.net/articles/muslims/badr/number.php
//According to the Ahadith in Jami' us-Sahih of Imam al-Bukhari (Vol. 5, p. 201, Hadith Numbers 292-294), the number of warriors in the Battle of Badr were more than 310 of whom more than 60 were the Muhajirin (from Makkah) and more than 249 were the Ansar (from Madina). According to scholars of sirah (history, biography), 313 companions took part in the Battle of Badr of whom 82 were the Muhajirin and 231 were the Ansar (61 Awsi and 170 Khazraji). Wallahu A'lam (Allah Knows Best).//
Now please try to find if Ansari Sahaba were more or less in Ghazwa e Uhud!
You have shared a clip about Surat Tauba and as far as I think you want to prove there were Munafiqeen in Madina!
Bhai try to understand there were Munafiqeen in Makkah too.
http://qurango.com/images/t1/743.jpg
Please read my questions again in above posts.
People have time to dig out:
a) how many exact muslims participated in Battle of Uhd,
b) how many were Ansars or how many were mohaijrs;
c) Mohaijrs were better or Ansars were better.
d) was x,yz, from Mecca or Madina;
e) Were hypocrites or muslims;
For such people in whose heart is disease, dig out such things to spread
differences and firqas. Enough is for us which is written in Quran about these two wars. Period.
a) how many exact muslims participated in Battle of Uhd,
b) how many were Ansars or how many were mohaijrs;
c) Mohaijrs were better or Ansars were better.
d) was x,yz, from Mecca or Madina;
e) Were hypocrites or muslims;
For such people in whose heart is disease, dig out such things to spread
differences and firqas. Enough is for us which is written in Quran about these two wars. Period.
