اللہ مسلمانوں کو مولویوں سے محفوظ رکھے

[Noworriesbehappy]

when i die and find out there is no God, time wasted praying , no problem but when you die and find out there is God, you are f*cked up big time.

I think when i will die, Just similar to before i was born, i had no self awareness (may be thats not the right word). my body will decompose, my existasnce will end.

and in case,If There is GOD, Phir jaha pay 2 jotay parnay hai, waha do oor sahi...

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

No one made fhe creator because it's always been there.
You said in both cases something came from nothing, if that is true than where did nothing come from?
0 means zero..
There are two options either there is a creator who has always been there that has made the universe and everything in it.
Or there was nothing and something happened and universe earth human beings cane to existence with random chance without nothing knowing anything about it
It's Like saying someone asks me who made your house. And I say well there was big explosion. As a result of the big explosion bricks, electricity, fridge, sofa etc came to existence they were floating around in the air. Then after a million years when the house had the TV, electricity sofa etc. I came to existence, then all of a sudden a female came not sure how we came it is very complex too understand and we fell in love and had babies.

I think whole discussion comes down to this point,

Our mind/thinking does not accept that something can come from nothing, similar to your logic, i can say, My house has always been there just like creator in your argument.

regarding human being, i dont want to go down and expalin the whole scientific view about univerase, our solar system and earth being 4.5 Billiion yrs old, life starting from simple single cell and evolving into complex life,--> dinousaur --> primates and humans.

I once asked a qualified medical Doctor in his 50s, "Do you believe in evolution" His reply was, " evolution is a fact, as a doctor, i cant deny it but as a muslim i dont belief in it"

For me, his reply was surprising, his knowledge based on facts was telling him that evolution is a fact but because of his belief (which is NOT based on any facts) was still stopping him to make logical decision.

 

[Respect]

I think whole discussion comes down to this point,

Our mind/thinking does not accept that something can come from nothing, similar to your logic, i can say, My house has always been there just like creator in your argument.

regarding human being, i dont want to go down and expalin the whole scientific view about univerase, our solar system and earth being 4.5 Billiion yrs old, life starting from simple single cell and evolving into complex life,--> dinousaur --> primates and humans.

I once asked a qualified medical Doctor in his 50s, "Do you believe in evolution" His reply was, " evolution is a fact, as a doctor, i cant deny it but as a muslim i dont belief in it"

For me, his reply was surprising, his knowledge based on facts was telling him that evolution is a fact but because of his belief (which is NOT based on any facts) was still stopping him to make logical decision.

Maybe the doctor said it is a fact but there is no scientific fact that evolution took place.
Evolution is based on the theory that we all involved from fish through millions of millions of years of evolution.
How can we know that our ancestors or monkeys or whether the bear became a shark etc.
Either we see it with our own eyes and see a chimpanzee involving into a human being. That cannot be done because science says it is millions of years of change.
So the only scientific way is fossil records. At the time of Charles Darwin he spent a significant time of his life studying fossils. He found fossils of fish that were millions of Years old. He also found many other fossils that were millions and millions of years old

However he himself questioned his theory of evolution. And said there should be millions of millions of intermediate stages of fossils but I can't even find one.

What is intermediate stages.
For example a dog involved into a horse. We can find horse fossils and dog fossils with ease. The change that takes place from dog too horse we cannot even find one.

Before evolutionists use to laugh at creationsts with this question but now they try to answer it by saying we have some, in fact they have none. Some evolutionsts say they become extinct.

Just the way Charles Darwin questioned his theory that there should be millions of millions if intermediate stages. To this day the same question is being asked where are they?

Evolution has been used against religion by scientists too attack religion. But there is no scietific facts that our ancestors were fish. It's a fairy tale that evolutionists have been using up and hiding behind science. They come out with certain fossils name and say we have many but it is just make believe too impress evolutionists.

Basically for it to be true there should have been millions of millions of them scattered throughout earth. But just like Charles Darwin himself questioned his theory that I can't even find one there should be millions too millions of them.

Should read up on the Cambrian explosion. That puts evolution to sleep.

Evolution is propaganda it's no different me saying a pig was flying millions of years ago and all of a sudden due to natural selection a human being was formed.
.

 

[Respect]

I think whole discussion comes down to this point,

Our mind/thinking does not accept that something can come from nothing, similar to your logic, i can say, My house has always been there just like creator in your argument.

regarding human being, i dont want to go down and expalin the whole scientific view about univerase, our solar system and earth being 4.5 Billiion yrs old, life starting from simple single cell and evolving into complex life,--> dinousaur --> primates and humans.

I once asked a qualified medical Doctor in his 50s, "Do you believe in evolution" His reply was, " evolution is a fact, as a doctor, i cant deny it but as a muslim i dont belief in it"

For me, his reply was surprising, his knowledge based on facts was telling him that evolution is a fact but because of his belief (which is NOT based on any facts) was still stopping him to make logical decision.

My logic is that there is a creator that created everything. Your logic is there was nothing. Something that does not exist cannot come to existence. And even if it comes too existence cannot make the universe and human beings.

In fact nothing cannot even make my bogey in my nose.

Mathematically it is impossible for zero to become 1 if it stays at nothing.

0 plus 0 plus trillion zeros= zero

Now life came from a single cell where did the first single cell come from? Just popped up from nowhere. Maybe nothing came again and did it. Just like before the big bang there was nothing and the universe was created.

 

[Kamboz]

Thats fines, i might not agree with your view/opinion but i respect it.

one thing we need to remember that, when it comes to history, not everything is true, " "history is written by the victors", or as we learnt, in the case of pakistan, by the powerfull. they are bound to be biased.

One reason why i insisted that you first study the Quran is because one may disagree or find faults in some action of the Prophet but the Quran is a true miracle.
How? as it was revealed verse by verse over a period of 23 years, to think that the prophet made up those verses, one will see that it is not humanely possible. Since today i will make some claim but 10 years later i may not remember and claim something else. But the Quran has no such contradictions.
In a few situations in the Quran the Prophet is reprimanded over some actions. A fake Prophet will certainly not want that , he will always want people look up to him, he will certainly not make up those verses.
e.g. a blind man came to meet the Prophet, while he was attending to some chieftains and he was very much attentive and ignored the blind man for that period. Very soon verses were revealed , telling the prophet that you are giving more priority to high status worldly people while God will be more pleased if you paid your attention to the poor blind man. (something to that effect)
It can be clearly seen from the Quranic verses that God was sending down guidance and showing the way and clearing the doubts in people' s minds.
Quran has to be studied before you can decide whether islam is true religion or not.

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

Maybe the doctor said it is a fact but there is no scientific fact that evolution took place.
Evolution is based on the theory that we all involved from fish through millions of millions of years of evolution.
How can we know that our ancestors or monkeys or whether the bear became a shark etc.
Either we see it with our own eyes and see a chimpanzee involving into a human being. That cannot be done because science says it is millions of years of change.
So the only scientific way is fossil records. At the time of Charles Darwin he spent a significant time of his life studying fossils. He found fossils of fish that were millions of Years old. He also found many other fossils that were millions and millions of years old

However he himself questioned his theory of evolution. And said there should be millions of millions of intermediate stages of fossils but I can't even find one.

What is intermediate stages.
For example a dog involved into a horse. We can find horse fossils and dog fossils with ease. The change that takes place from dog too horse we cannot even find one.

Before evolutionists use to laugh at creationsts with this question but now they try to answer it by saying we have some, in fact they have none. Some evolutionsts say they become extinct.

Just the way Charles Darwin questioned his theory that there should be millions of millions if intermediate stages. To this day the same question is being asked where are they?

Evolution has been used against religion by scientists too attack religion. But there is no scietific facts that our ancestors were fish. It's a fairy tale that evolutionists have been using up and hiding behind science. They come out with certain fossils name and say we have many but it is just make believe too impress evolutionists.

Basically for it to be true there should have been millions of millions of them scattered throughout earth. But just like Charles Darwin himself questioned his theory that I can't even find one there should be millions too millions of them.

Should read up on the Cambrian explosion. That puts evolution to sleep.

Evolution is propaganda it's no different me saying a pig was flying millions of years ago and all of a sudden due to natural selection a human being was formed.
.

That was the exact reason idid not wanted to go down this road :) , because to explaine evolution to somebody with stereo type view point ( evolution is a theory and not fact/ law, i dont mean any disrespect) is hard.

it took me aqpprox 10 years of knowledge gathering before i fully understood evolution. there is no point discussing it any further.
We just have to acceopt that we have differtent point ofr view.

My only problem with religion is when i see human being suffering because of religion, e.g. Honour killing, suicide attack, spread of STDs because of discourging use of protection etc and so on, just because of BELIEF (an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof). Atleast we should question something that is key part of our lfe, maybe what we belief is not true.

 

[Respect]

That was the exact reason idid not wanted to go down this road :) , because to explaine evolution to somebody with stereo type view point ( evolution is a theory and not fact/ law, i dont mean any disrespect) is hard.

it took me aqpprox 10 years of knowledge gathering before i fully understood evolution. there is no point discussing it any further.
We just have to acceopt that we have differtent point ofr view.

My only problem with religion is when i see human being suffering because of religion, e.g. Honour killing, suicide attack, spread of STDs because of discourging use of protection etc and so on, just because of BELIEF (an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof). Atleast we should question something that is key part of our lfe, maybe what we belief is not true.

Yes we will have to go our separate ways in this. I believe there is no evidence if evolution that proves our ancestors are fish. I believe it is a belief of evolutionists that all species are interlinked. I also believe evolution is corrupting science and it need to be thrown out of science.

It just like suicide bombers, honor killings that has nothing to do with religion Evolution is similar to science scenario. Science loses credibility having Charles Darwin evolution which has no facts and based on a myth that was created by Charles Darwin and has been exploited against creationists to say there is no god.

However I would request you too read on the Cambrian explosion which is a part of science field that contradicts the whole bases of evolution.

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

One reason why i insisted that you first study the Quran is because one may disagree or find faults in some action of the Prophet but the Quran is a true miracle.
How? as it was revealed verse by verse over a period of 23 years, to think that the prophet made up those verses, one will see that it is not humanely possible. Since today i will make some claim but 10 years later i may not remember and claim something else. But the Quran has no such contradictions.
In a few situations in the Quran the Prophet is reprimanded over some actions. A fake Prophet will certainly not want that , he will always want people look up to him, he will certainly not make up those verses.
e.g. a blind man came to meet the Prophet, while he was attending to some chieftains and he was very much attentive and ignored the blind man for that period. Very soon verses were revealed , telling the prophet that you are giving more priority to high status worldly people while God will be more pleased if you paid your attention to the poor blind man. (something to that effect)
It can be clearly seen from the Quranic verses that God was sending down guidance and showing the way and clearing the doubts in people' s minds.
Quran has to be studied before you can decide whether islam is true religion or not.

I have to be careful what i say here,because. being ex-muslim, i do understand that it is sensitive topic for many people, as it was for me.
this argument that no human can come up with verse like quran, I donot see anythintg special in quran that a human cant come up with, provided that Arbic is his first language.
In bQuran, there are are alot of old stories similar to bible and torah and hindu books the veda. and some rules for its follower to obey.

if you are willing to question all the things wed are told about islam, you will find alot of things that wouldn't make sense but the problem is before even we start to discuse, our starting point is, "Islam and its teaching cant be wrong". then your focus is only on one point. How to defend your belief/religion.

The reason that i gave you pakistan history example was that, so many of us accepted every word written in Pakistan study about partition 1947, and 1971 war, and pak army being a holy cow that could not do anything wrong, but in last 18 monts, all this myth is broken and reality could not be any far from truth.

 

[Kamboz]

I have to be careful what i say here,because. being ex-muslim, i do understand that it is sensitive topic for many people, as it was for me.
this argument that no human can come up with verse like quran, I donot see anythintg special in quran that a human cant come up with, provided that Arbic is his first language.
In bQuran, there are are alot of old stories similar to bible and torah and hindu books the veda. and some rules for its follower to obey.

if you are willing to question all the things wed are told about islam, you will find alot of things that wouldn't make sense but the problem is before even we start to discuse, our starting point is, "Islam and its teaching cant be wrong". then your focus is only on one point. How to defend your belief/religion.

The reason that i gave you pakistan history example was that, so many of us accepted every word written in Pakistan study about partition 1947, and 1971 war, and pak army being a holy cow that could not do anything wrong, but in last 18 monts, all this myth is broken and reality could not be any far from truth.

What you are claiming is all here say... you never studied the Quran... studying means, to find out when and on what occasion a certain verse was revealed.
Secondly, i have found God from experiences in life... not everything is by chance. I have found God by the unanswered questions and by the birth of a child, such miracles show you there is a creator. How can one explain, human body, with the complex system and design... the answers are all there but will only be visible if one looked for it.

 

[siasat.us]

I have to be careful what i say here,because. being ex-muslim, i do understand that it is sensitive topic for many people, as it was for me.
this argument that no human can come up with verse like quran, I donot see anythintg special in quran that a human cant come up with, provided that Arbic is his first language.
In bQuran, there are are alot of old stories similar to bible and torah and hindu books the veda. and some rules for its follower to obey.

if you are willing to question all the things wed are told about islam, you will find alot of things that wouldn't make sense but the problem is before even we start to discuse, our starting point is, "Islam and its teaching cant be wrong". then your focus is only on one point. How to defend your belief/religion.

The reason that i gave you pakistan history example was that, so many of us accepted every word written in Pakistan study about partition 1947, and 1971 war, and pak army being a holy cow that could not do anything wrong, but in last 18 monts, all this myth is broken and reality could not be any far from truth.

Do you believe in evolution?

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

Do you believe in evolution?

Of course, it's a fact,
There are few mis information about evolution,
First, it's a theory,
Word theory in science has different meaning than word theory used in common language.
When you get sick, you take med/ vaccine (COVID 19) , they are based on science/evolution.

To explain it simple, when you look at any human, can we guess which part of the world he belongs to, yes, because chienesee, indian, African, European have different facial/ physical characteristics, that's evolution on v small scale. All animal evolve to suit their environment,
If there was no evolution, physical characteristics of animal/ human.would be independent of regardless which part of the world they belong too.

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

What you are claiming is all here say... you never studied the Quran... studying means, to find out when and on what occasion a certain verse was revealed.
Secondly, i have found God from experiences in life... not everything is by chance. I have found God by the unanswered questions and by the birth of a child, such miracles show you there is a creator. How can one explain, human body, with the complex system and design... the answers are all there but will only be visible if one looked for it.

We are both different human being who have different opinion about same thing based on their life experience,. It's perfectly fine.

It was good to have a positive discussion unfortunately, most of discussion on siasat.pk is full abuse getting personal. I would encourage you to have open mind and seek knowledge, thats the only way we can better decision in ife.

 

[Kamboz]

We are both different human being who have different opinion about same thing based on their life experience,. It's perfectly fine.

It was good to have a positive discussion unfortunately, most of discussion on siasat.pk is full abuse getting personal. I would encourage you to have open mind and seek knowledge, thats the only way we can better decision in ife.

I am guessing you came to study in the west and have been indoctrinated by the culture here. Sorry to see you call yourself ex-Muslim, this life is very precious and one has no control over death, it can happen at any minute. so the decision to believe in a creator is very crucial, since there no coming back and trying to undo this life.
People like British singer Sinead O'Conner who tried all religions and found truth in islam as well as the Dutch islamophobe politician Joram Van Klaveren converted while reading the Quran to find faults.
There are too many such stories, you may think that being open minded and not believing in anything makes you feel a learned person however since you dont have all the answers, it is best to stick to divine revelations.
My elder brother in london has similar beliefs and i truly believe guidance is from God , as his own uncle Abu Lahab wont believe him yet the world paid heed to his words.
The decision will have alter your eternity, whether you die as a believer or denier.

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

I am guessing you came to study in the west and have been indoctrinated by the culture here. Sorry to see you call yourself ex-Muslim, this life is very precious and one has no control over death, it can happen at any minute. so the decision to believe in a creator is very crucial, since there no coming back and trying to undo this life.
People like British singer Sinead O'Conner who tried all religions and found truth in islam as well as the Dutch islamophobe politician Joram Van Klaveren converted while reading the Quran to find faults.
There are too many such stories, you may think that being open minded and not believing in anything makes you feel a learned person however since you dont have all the answers, it is best to stick to divine revelations.
My elder brother in london has similar beliefs and i truly believe guidance is from God , as his own uncle Abu Lahab wont believe him yet the world paid heed to his words.
The decision will have alter your eternity, whether you die as a believer or denier.

yes, you are right, but My views did not changed overnight, it took me 10 years,
when you are out of pakistan,then you see things from different angle, in pakistan, you can not question religion, because of mullah hold on people life.

Here are harsh facts about pak, the dumbesed kids in class ends up in mosque, where he learns quran like a parrot without understanding meaning of anything and he gets training of sodomy as well, which he practice his entire life on other small children. then brightest kids who end up becoming doc/Eng go to him for guidness about life.

In Pakistan, we have this superior complex that some how we are better than rest of the world and everybody is after us.

reality is alot diffrent.
here is one more example, if you ask any pakistani family living in west that, lets say if any of their family woman is travelling in bus, would they prefer any white person or a pakistani sitting on next seat, 9 out of 10 time, answer would be, a white person.

now regarding Quran, there are few more contradiction,

On one side, islam is religion of peace and there is no compulsion in islam, but what if somebody leave islam , what is his punishmennt, he should be killed. now if other religions have same rule, then nobody will convert to islam.

second, what i have read that prophet marrieds aisha at the age od six, and consumed his marrieage when she was 9. As a father nopf 11 year old girl, the thought of marriage of 9YO with 45+ age man sickens me. There is no way 9 yo ready for marriage mentally and physically its life threatning to her body if becomes pregnant,.
there are alot of other examples that hard justify for a sane man in al religions.