Pro Qadiyani vs. Anti Qadiyani

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1HmE5VjoUI&annotation_id=annotation_293296&feature=iv[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqEbA2hJMOQ[/video]
 
Yes Mr. Jazbaedil, get some knowledge

may be you dont know exactly what is the difference between muslims and qadiyanis.......This is among the beleifs of qadiyanis that hazrat Isa (alyhissalam) has died and the Masiha (Isa) who has been promised is ghulam Ahmed qadiyani.....

and Mr ghamdi is spreading zionist ideology among us.....because such thoughs are being provoked by zionists among Muslims and christians because they know what will happen to them when Imam Mahdi (Razi ul Allah) and Hazrat Isa (alyhissalam) will come...

Hope you understand..........

Mr ghamdi talked about the Ayaate Mutashabihat mostly and his interpretation is different from the Quroon-e-Ula
 

jazbaedil

Voter (50+ posts)
I have watched the complete video, and it does not talk about Qadiyani and stuff. dimagh uss ko use karna chahiyay jis ne ye videos iss caption k sath post ki hain. Sirf iss wajha se kisi ko kafir aur muslim qarar dene ka koi jawaz nahin hai k koi hazrat Eeesa AA ko zinda samajh raha hai, aur koi unn ki wafaat ko sahi samajh raha hai. Alhamdollillah, meri maloomaat tumharay pooray k pooray pindd walon se ziada hain, iss liyay apni chonch ko bilawajha kisi k baray main kholne se pehlay soch lia karo. Islami eemaniyat main kahin bhi hazrat eesa AA ki wafat ko mannay ya na mannay ka zikar nahin hai. Quran main jaisa likha hai, wesa hi mana jana chahiyay. ab log jaisi tashreehat karte hain wo unn ki apni samajh , ilm aur hidyat pe mabni hota hai, har bat pe qadiyani ka stamp laga dena konsa islami amal hai?
Rahi baat Qadiyaniyat ki, tou unn ki kharabi ye nahin hai k wo hazrat Eesa AA ki wapsi aur uthaey janay pe wesa emaan nahin rakhte jaisa aur log rakhtay hain, ye tou mehaz aik faroee masla hai. Asal masla Qadiyanion ka, aur unhi jaisay dosray logon ka ye hai, keh wo Nabi Akhiruz Zaman SAW ki nabowat k baray main ye shak phela rahay hain k jaisay Aap SAW akhri nabi nahin thay, aur naozobillah Mirza Qadiyani kisi bhi tarha ka nabi tha ya uss k baad k log kisi bhi tarha k khalifa hai. Ye log sirf kisi ghair nabi ko nabi mannay, aur Aap SAW ko AAKHRI nabi na manay ki wajha se islam se bahar hain, kion keh ye buniyadi eemaan ka muamla hai. Magar jo batain farooee hain, unn ko ASAL ka darja de dena, aur har bat pe aik dosray ko zionist, aur kafir keh dena, insaniyat nahin, shaitaniyat, hai, iss se parhez karo tou behtar hai.
 

patriot

Minister (2k+ posts)
'jazbaedil' ,
I agree with you on second coming of Hz. Isa (AS).
Dar asal hum log Qadiyani ki dushmani meN Quran kay haqayq se bhi inkar kar detay heN.Quran e kareem meN Hz. Isa AS kay dobaara ane ka koi zikar nahiN hai.Aur agar yehi baat Mirza GA Qadiyani bhi kehta hai tau humeN siraf is liye inkar nahiN karna chahye k woh bhi keh raha hai.Haqeeqat haqeeqat hot hai chahe ko bhi kahe aur humen is ko qabool karna chahye. 2 aur 2 chaar hote heN chahe koi hindu kahe ya qadiyani ya mullah umar.
Waise har qaum kisi na kisi kay intazaar meN hai.Har mazhab kay man-ne wale kisi ka intazaar kar rahe heN.
Magar aaey ga koi bhi nahiN.


BEWARE! NO MESSIAH, NO MAHDI IS COMING.
God is not sending any Savior to the world! The last Messenger (S) has come and gone having delivered the eternal Message (Al-Quran) to all humanity. Now it is up to us to save or destroy the planet earth.
Ayah 2:177 gives us only Five Article of Faith: Tawheed, Angels, Prophets, the Book and the Hereafter. Please remember that the Ultimate Authority for Muslims is nothing but Al-Quran. You will not find The Advent of Mahdi in the Quran.
The Bible, e.g. Gospel of Mathew (KJV) has this to say about Jesus:

24:30 - and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. [That generation passed away 2000 years ago without Jesus return. Since then, billions of people have lived, waited and died waiting, Ah! Any interpretation of this verse can be, and has been, nothing but frankly and embarrassingly apologetic - yes, but - situation, even for the greats such as Grahams and Franklins and Oh yes, for the PAPAS in capitals.]

Everyone Seems To Be Waiting
The dogma of a Promised One is almost Universal. It is found in every religion of the world. Probably, soon you will agree that it is nothing but wishful thinking.

When the Messiah of the Jews comes he will bestow upon them the everlasting Worldly Kingdom. Jews have already started becoming apologetic. For example, in large numbers, they are turning to believing in the Messianic Age rather than a personality.

When the Messiah of the Christians shows up again, the faithful (Alas! Only 600,000) will be taken up to the heavens in Rapture to live in the Fathers Palace up there, while the remaining billions get annihilated on this dusty earth. Billions just could not and would not make it. (Joseph Barber Lightfoot, Bishop of England 1880).

When Meeta or Buddha II, arrives, he will make Buddhism dominate all religions physically and spiritually and turn every human being into a Mahatma (The great soul).

Mithra of Zoroastrians will herald the return of the long lost Maggian glory for his followers.

Kalki Avtar (The Last Savior) will lead Hindus straight to Mukti (Salvation by non-existence and out of the endless cycle of Reincarnation).

Tri-Thankra of Jainism will unify all human beings on earth into his religion. Then all people will become the ideal Bugs Bunnies eating plant roots alone.

Even the ancient Tribes of Africa, Native Americans, the Aborigines of Australia, the Eskimos and inhabitants of the Amazon and the Himalaya valleys charm themselves with an oncoming, supernatural, and magical Redeemer.

TWO MAHDIS: The greatest drama, Ma-Sha-Allah, rests with the N2I Muslims since they have two and not one Mahdi, coming: A Sunni Mahdi and a Shiah Mahdi with extremely divergent action plans! And, of course, the Mullahs make them believe in the Second Coming of Jesus as well. So, they have to contend with THREE Supermen, all at one time!

Lets think for a moment that dozens of Promised Ones have appeared in the world for a final round trying to prevail over one another. Battles, wars, massive blood shed and total chaos grab hold of our little poor planet as far as our imagination can take us, rather beyond.

How many mini-Mahdis and mini-Christs have come and gone in the last many centuries? This can be anybodys guess but I have seen two in chains. Countless people have claimed to be the Promised One, the Mahdi or the Messiah in the last many centuries. It is a strange paradox that people keep waiting and waiting intently for someone to come. But as soon as some priest, monk, mullah, sufi, yogi, mystic, makes the claim, they raise furor against him. They even attempt to kill him.

THE PROBLEM
The real problem with the dogma of a promised one is that it serves as opiate for the masses. It snatches from them the will to strive and struggle. Well, someone will come to solve their problems and raise them to glory. The situation is quite understandable as far as other religions are concerned since they do not have Al-Quran, the Criterion between the right and the wrong. But it is strange that the Muslims that regard the Quran as their authoritative Book keep groping in the dark. We will see shortly that the Final Word of God very clearly rules out the coming of another promised one after Prophet Muhammad (S). We have documented that Maudoodi in his Tafheem vol 4 pg 163 admits that there is no place for this utopia in the Quran.
The following genius minds and great Muslims DID NOT believe in the coming of Jesus or Mahdi.

SIR SYED AHMED KHAN (1817 to 1898)
Jesus was never raised to heaven
That great wizard of a genius was a commentator of the Quran par excellence. Follow his pen:
The brilliant Muslim commentators of the Quran have blindly followed the Christian traditions to forge such Ahadith. These so-called experts have assigned totally erroneous meaning to Rafa or the raising of the prophets Jesus (3:55) and Enoch = Idrees a.s. (19:56). The Quran does not portray the physical raising of these prophets into the heavens. It describes raising them in honor. The prophecies of the coming of Mahdi and Messiah have been introduced into our history by Zoroastrian Imams. The Quran is absolutely free of these ridiculous themes. [Ref. Tafseer vol I part 7 pg 123 on, vol 2]
DR SIR ALLAMA MUHAMMAD IQBAL (1877 to 1938)
The most outstanding scholar of the Quran, Sir Iqbal does not subscribe to the view of ascension of Jesus up into the heavens or to his second coming. Nor does Sir Iqbal see Mahdi as a specific person.
You O Preacher, have placed God on top of the heavens
What kind of God is He that shies away from his servants?
See another:
He whose self wakes up recognizing the human potential
He is the Mahdi and the promise one of the latter times
And yet another:
Look at God appearing on the minaret of your heart
And stop waiting for the advent of Mahdi and Jesus

In his English writings against the Qadiyanis, Sir Iqbal thrashed the dogma of a promised one as a Magian and a Jewish heritage.

Abulkalam Azad & Ubaidullah Sindhi
These two noted scholars of the twentieth century in their respective explanations of the Quran very forcefully and convincingly dismiss the notion of the advent of a Messiah or Mahdi. (Ref Tarjamanul Quran Urdu and Ilhamur Rahman Arabic, commentary on Verse 3:55)

MUFTI SHEIKH MUHAMMAD ABDUH (1849 to 1906)
The celebrated scholar of Islam, Muhammad Sheikh Abd-e-Rabbuhu of Egypt , d. 1906, maintains that the stories of a living Jesus in the heavens and his second coming were inserted into our Ahadith centuries ago by Christian scholars so that Christianity may seem superior to Islam.

JAMAL-UD-DIN AFGHANI (1830 to 1899)
This great torchbearer of Muslim unity said, My intensive research in the Quran, Hadith and history has taught me that any human being who tries to save the planet and make it a better place to live is the Mahdi and the Messiah in his own right.

THE FINAL WORD, AL-QURAN

3:55 O Jesus! I will cause you to die of natural causes and I will exalt you in honor and I will clear you of the slander of the disbelievers. .

The word Rafa means honoring or exalting. Nowhere in the Quran is there any warrant for the popular belief that God has taken up Jesus bodily into heaven. (The Message of the Quran, Tafseer by Allama Muhammad Asad 3:55 and 4:158)

19:56 And make mention of Idris (Enoch) in the Book. Verily, he was a man of truth, a Prophet.

19:57 And We raised him to a high station of honor. (Allama Muhammad Asad, The Message of The Quran).

The great Austrian scholar and exponent Allama Muhammad Asad writes that the very common belief that Jesus was taken up to the heaven in body is absolutely non-Quranic and, therefore, it has no merit.

21:34 We have never granted everlasting life to any human before you. If you die, can they be immortal?
3:144 Remember that Muhammad is only a Messenger. The Messengers before him have passed on. So, if he died or were slain, would you turn about on your heels?
This verse makes clear that Jesus too has died. He has passed away and was not raised to the heavens. When Muhammad (S) died not one of his companions complained why he was not raised to heaven like Jesus and Enoch.

5:3 This Day, I have perfected your DEEN for you, completed My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life.

6:115 Perfected is the Word of your Lord in Truth and Justice. None can change His Words and His Laws. And He is the Profound Hearer, the Knower. [Hence, no further Divine revelation, no further messenger or promised one is to come.]

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is Allahs Messenger and the Closing Seal of all Prophets. And Allah, indeed, is Knower of all things. [Hence, there is no room for a Divinely guided one to come.]
15:9 Behold! It is We Ourselves Who have sent down this Reminder, and verily, it is We Who shall truly guard it. [Therefore no further prophet, Mahdi or Messiah is necessary.]
21:7 For, before you We sent none but men to whom We granted Revelation. Hence, (tell the deniers), Ask the followers of previous Reminders if you know not. (12:109, 16:43).

21:8 We gave them not bodies that wont require food, nor were they immortal.

5:75 The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a Messenger, like other Messengers before him who passed on. And his mother was a woman of truth. Both of them were human beings who had to eat food (like all other mortals). See how clearly We explain Our verses for them and note how they keep wandering in thought! (These ignorant people make human beings that eat and walk about in markets, ascend to heaven with their bodies!)
29:51 Why! Is it not enough of a miracle for them that We have bestowed upon you this Book that is conveyed to them? [The Quran must be Sufficient]

48:23 And never will you find any change in Allahs Law. (Bodily ascension is not a Law of Allah. Returning from heaven to this world too, is not His law).
13:11 Behold, Allah never changes a nations condition unless they change their inner selves.
PLEASE STOP HERE AND THINK for a moment: Why would God send Mahdi and Jesus to change the condition of a nation? Doesnt this dogma collide with a rock-solid Law of the Quran? With God being Omnipresent, the ascension of Jesus or any other human being, and getting seated at His right hand makes no sense. It confines God to some corner in the heavens. It also gives Him an anthropomorphic man-like image which is obviously Biblical. It is certainly not Quranic.

Syed Jamaluddin Afghani, Mufti Muhammad Abduh, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Allama Iqbal, Allama Muhammad Asad, Maurice Buccaille, Allama Inayatullah Mashriqi, the brilliant sons of the Ummah, and countless others believe that bodily ascension of Jesus confines God to a certain heaven while the Quran makes it very clear that God is present everywhere.
Some Celebrated Quranic Voices Denying The Advent Of Mahdi & Messiah
Imam Nafees Sheristani of Arabia (395-461 AH) crucified.
Imam Ash-Shaikh Muhammad Tahir Al-Makki (417-460 AH) burned alive.
Imam Ahmad Amin Tahir Al-Masri (1883-1953 CE) - tortured to death in prison.
Imam Moinuddin Al-AshAri of Iraq (313-363 AH) - crucified.
Imam Shariq Alawi Mutazali of Palestine (407-457 AH) - hanged.
Imam Raghib Al-Isphahani of Persia (1327-1409 CE) - beheaded.
Imam Abdullah Zanjani of Arabia (459-610 AH) crucified.
Jamaluddin Afghani of Iran/Afhanistan (1830 to 1899 CE)
Mufti Muhammad Abduh of Egypt (1849 to 1906 CE)
Sir Syed Ahmed Khan of the Indo-Pak Subcontinent (1817 to 1898 CE) declared Kafir
Allama Iqbal of the Subcontinent (1877 to 1938 CE) declared Kafir
Allama Muhammad Asad of Austria/Gibraltar (1907-1997)
Dr. Maurice Buccaille (Abus Salam) of France (1911-1989)
Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi of the Subcontinent (18888-1964) declared Kafir
Imam Mufti Vehbi Ismael of Albania (1917-?)
Mujtahid Imam Ali Mahdi Kurasani Al-Husseini of Iran (1919-2006) declared Kafir and imprisoned till death
Allama Ubaidullah Sindhi of the Subcontinent (1865-1935)
Allama Tamanna Imadi of the Subcontinent (1895-1961) declared Kafir
Allama Habib-ur-Rahman Kandhalwi of the Subcontinent (1887-1957) - declared Kafir
Allama Aslam Jairajpuri of the Subcontinent (1890-1959)
Fazil Uloom Dinyah Masooduddin Usmani of Pakistan (19013-1985)
Fazil Diniyaat Dr. Ghulam Jeelani Barq of Pakistan (1901-1983)
Allama G.A. Parwaiz of the Subcontinent (1903-1985) declared Kafir
Allama Rasheed Ridha of Iran (1887-1941)
[Note: The dates given are likely to be inaccurate in some cases.]


By Dr.Shabbir February 5th, 2009 .www.ourbeacon.com
 

jazbaedil

Voter (50+ posts)
This is totally a different debate now. And I know, "rejectors of Ahadiths" like Parevaizis, do not accept that Jesus pbuh was taken above the skies alive, and that he would not return to earth again. I also know that majority of muslims, however, believes in this. The point was.......THIS IS NOT THE MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH,....THIS IS NOT THE MATTER OF EEMAAN. This is simply differences in understandings. if you do believe or do not believe in any of this, it , IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, does not affect legality of anyone becomming a muslim. To be legally a muslim, one must accept , . That there is no God, except Allah, and Muhammad pbuh as his prophet and all other prophets pbut. and that there exists angels, and the books, and the fate good n bad, and the qiyamah. That is all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 nothing more, nothing less. And yes Muhammad pbuh was the last messanger of Allah...