It's Not The Man, Its The Office

[Citizen X]

As is popular nowadays I see endless posts and threads berating and cursing the current COAS. I understand it cathartic so leave majority of them alone. Better to vent here, in this virtual space rather than to let it build up and finally explode in the real world. But the point is, it's all misdirected anger and criticism.

What real difference does it really make as to who currently wears the title of COAS. In my view very little. Ok one COAS might have different views about one party or leader. Another COAS, a different party, another leader. One COAS does not believe in too much political interference and engineering. One COAS might be the total opposite and wants to keep a tight leash on everyone. While One might totally disregard civilian supremacy and want to impose martial law.

The real question is why, we a so called democratic country where civilian supremacy should rule are held hostage by the military top brass. why do we accept and tolerate political interference and engineering. Under what authority, rule or constitution do they think it is their right to become puppet masters and control our destiny. They are not elected by the people, they don't have the public's mandate, we have no say in this what so ever.

So if anything that needs to change is not who currently occupies the post of COAS be it Kiyani, Raheel or Bajwa but rather the power it has usurped from the civilian leadership. The Armed forces and all its top brass in the true sense of the word need to be made subordinate of the civilian chief executive.

So it's not the man, its the office.

Pakistan Zindabad

#امپورٹڈ_حکومت_نامنظور
سیاسی_مداخلت_نامنظور#

 

[miafridi]

Hoti nahi jo qoum Haq bat pay Yakja,
Os qoum ka hakim hi faqat oski saza hai.

It's no one but collective behavior of the people, who can't think beyond their monthly grocery bill.

امپورٹڈ_حکومت_نامنظور

 

[miafridi]

Hoti nahi jo qoum Haq bat pay Yakja,
Os qoum ka hakim hi faqat oski saza hai.

It's no one but collective behavior of the people, who can't think beyond their monthly grocery bill.

امپورٹڈ_حکومت_نامنظور

I say this because I was sitting in a shop yesterday and heard people telling each other, "Gas to 15 rupay sasta hogaya hai".

Now they don't care who does it, and how they do it, they just praise the Hakim who give them immediate relief in their grocery bill. They don't think outside their monthly bill and don't care about the invisible yet the most important things of life like education, health, justice system etc.

 

[Kam]

Bajwa ny kuch ziada hi lassi pi thi.

 

[crankthskunk]

As is popular nowadays I see endless posts and threads berating and cursing the current COAS. I understand it cathartic so leave majority of them alone. Better to vent here, in this virtual space rather than to let it build up and finally explode in the real world. But the point is, it's all misdirected anger and criticism.

What real difference does it really make as to who currently wears the title of COAS. In my view very little. Ok one COAS might have different views about one party or leader. Another COAS, a different party, another leader. One COAS does not believe in too much political interference and engineering. One COAS might be the total opposite and wants to keep a tight leash on everyone. While One might totally disregard civilian supremacy and want to impose martial law.

The real question is why, we a so called democratic country where civilian supremacy should rule are held hostage by the military top brass. why do we accept and tolerate political interference and engineering. Under what authority, rule or constitution do they think it is their right to become puppet masters and control our destiny. They are not elected by the people, they don't have the public's mandate, we have no say in this what so ever.

So if anything that needs to change is not who currently occupies the post of COAS be it Kiyani, Raheel or Bajwa but rather the power it has usurped from the civilian leadership. The Armed forces and all its top brass in the true sense of the word need to be made subordinate of the civilian chief executive.

So it's not the man, its the office.

Pakistan Zindabad

#امپورٹڈ_حکومت_نامنظور
سیاسی_مداخلت_نامنظور#

Very misleading and illinformed opinion my friend.
The Title means nothing, it is the man holding the title is everything. Title doesn't make decisions , the man does.
Therefore, it is always ok to criticise the man, doesn't matter whar rank or title he/she is holding.
Thus no human or title is sacrosanct.
Now let's deal with the current and pastt history of the men holding the COAS office.

1- Musharaf as COAS and Kiyani as DG ISI designed and implemented NRO1 on the instructions of Americans. Condi Rice book is full of the details how she pushed Mush to reconcile with BB and bring these looters to power to loot Pakistan. That is a documented conspiracy and then interference in Pakistan's internal affairs by the Americans, which resulted in forgiving of serious crimes by the criminals and them given power again to loot Pakistan. PA cannot get out of that.

2- Now history repeated itself , same Americans same plans, this time against a democratically elected government. So fig leaf of bringing democracy is also removed in this instance. Why you think that PA is sitting with the current looters and thugs in the government which they have brought together and passing a statement that there was no conspiracy, they have investigated it. They have investigated themselves!! Where is the evidence of the investigations. It is very clear that COAS Bajwa and DG ISI Nadeem had been working on it for months. Removal of General Faiz as DG ISI make sense now, he had to go, because he refused to be part of the conspiracy. Bajwa removed him and brought in Nadeem to help him implement the removal of Khan , which Americans wanted.
There are other indications that both generals knew for months. For example you in your right mind can think that the Americans were meeting openly with Pakistani politicians for months and ISI didn't knew what is happening , what is discussed and planned!!
It is impossible. When PPP/Zardari received the money from the Americans to buy the rebels, ISI was sleeping!! I am certain General Faiz disagreed internally within the PA ranks and he was moved to the side by Bajwa. Bajwa is as guilty as Musharaf was to bring the looters back. He has brought the same looters back to loot.
With time all this would come out, but by then it would be too late.
Americans want to remove Pakistani nukes, and now corrupt and compromised politicians of Pakistan are going to do it for the Americans. PA would be cut to the size and nuclear removed, reliving India to stand against China. Plan is clear, Pakistan should play no part in it.
Bajwa the man should be tried for treason. Musharaf and Kiyani should have tried for treason too. A To bring looters back and forgiving their crimes. B- To engineer the elections for PPP and PMLN to take their turns to loot Pakistan.
You are blind despite having two eyes. Open your eyes.

​

 

[Citizen X]

I say this because I was sitting in a shop yesterday and heard people telling each other, "Gas to 15 rupay sasta hogaya hai".

Now they don't care who does it, and how they do it, they just praise the Hakim who give them immediate relief in their grocery bill. They don't think outside their monthly bill and don't care about the invisible yet the most important things of life like education, health, justice system etc.

Now these same toads are going to get very nice gifts after EID when Muftah comes back from IMF

 

[Khi]

The man and the Office dono hi lanati hain. Sirif yeh BC Bajwa hi nahee is se pehle bhi sarray Raheel Sharif, Kiyani, Yahya, Zia ul haq sab ke sab apnay waqt k FIRON rahay hain.

Pakistan Army has become a cause of embarrassment for the whole country. Its sad to see this.

 

[Citizen X]

Very misleading and illinformed opinion my friend.
The Title means nothing, it is the man holding the title is everything. Title doesn't make decisions , the man does.
Therefore, it is always ok to criticise the man, doesn't matter whar rank or title he/she is holding.
Thus no human or title is sacrosanct.
Now let's deal with the current and pastt history of the men holding the COAS office.

1- Musharaf as COAS and Kiyani as DG ISI designed and implemented NRO1 on the instructions of Americans. Condi Rice book is full of the details how she pushed Mush to reconcile with BB and bring these looters to power to loot Pakistan. That is a documented conspiracy and then interference in Pakistan's internal affairs by the Americans, which resulted in forgiving of serious crimes by the criminals and them given power again to loot Pakistan. PA cannot get out of that.

2- Now history repeated itself , same Americans same plans, this time against a democratically elected government. So fig leaf of bringing democracy is also removed in this instance. Why you think that PA is sitting with the current looters and thugs in the government which they have brought together and passing a statement that there was no conspiracy, they have investigated it. They have investigated themselves!! Where is the evidence of the investigations. It is very clear that COAS Bajwa and DG ISI Nadeem had been working on it for months. Removal of General Faiz as DG ISI make sense now, he had to go, because he refused to be part of the conspiracy. Bajwa removed him and brought in Nadeem to help him implement the removal of Khan , which Americans wanted.
There are other indications that both generals knew for months. For example you in your right mind can think that the Americans were meeting openly with Pakistani politicians for months and ISI didn't knew what is happening , what is discussed and planned!!
It is impossible. When PPP/Zardari received the money from the Americans to buy the rebels, ISI was sleeping!! I am certain General Faiz disagreed internally within the PA ranks and he was moved to the side by Bajwa. Bajwa is as guilty as Musharaf was to bring the looters back. He has brought the same looters back to loot.
With time all this would come out, but by then it would be too late.
Americans want to remove Pakistani nukes, and now corrupt and compromised politicians of Pakistan are going to do it for the Americans. PA would be cut to the size and nuclear removed, reliving India to stand against China. Plan is clear, Pakistan should play no part in it.
Bajwa the man should be tried for treason. Musharaf and Kiyani should have tried for treason too. A To bring looters back and forgiving their crimes. B- To engineer the elections for PPP and PMLN to take their turns to loot Pakistan.
You are blind despite having two eyes. Open your eyes.

​

First of all, please use a normal sized font, I click on the notification and all I see is this HUGE WALL OF TEXT right in my face! I had to zoom out to -150% just to be able to read it.

Ok now putting that aside, what you have written is just what has happened and the larger American plan for Pakistan. No one is challenging that. But seems like you totally missed my point, in fact you are no where even close to it.

You need to understand two concepts first, absolute supremacy of civilian executive over the armed forces as is enshrined in the constitution and that the armed forces are subordinates of the civilian leadership, no matter how big and strong they are.

No General, COAS or any one from the top brass will ever think of doing any of what is mentioned in your aforementioned post if he knows he is also under the rule of law and there can and will be grave consequences for his actions.

Former Turkish military chief Evren sentenced to life for staging 1980 coup

Former army chief Kenan Evren, 96, who came to symbolise the military's dominance over Turkish political life over decades, was sentenced to life in jail on Wednesday for leading a 1980 coup that resulted in widespread torture, arrests and deaths.

www.reuters.com

 

[Citizen X]

The man and the Office dono hi lanati hain. Sirif yeh BC Bajwa hi nahee is se pehle bhi sarray Raheel Sharif, Kiyani, Yahya, Zia ul haq sab ke sab apnay waqt k FIRON rahay hain.

Pakistan Army has become a cause of embarrassment for the whole country. Its sad to see this.

Thats what I am saying, instead of just cursing the COAS which is pretty much we need take away their power for political interference and engineering. To put it bluntly, they need to be put in their place.

 

[umer amin]

bajwa or bondyaaaal both are gandu. ​

 

[Tit4Tat]

I say this because I was sitting in a shop yesterday and heard people telling each other, "Gas to 15 rupay sasta hogaya hai".

Now they don't care who does it, and how they do it, they just praise the Hakim who give them immediate relief in their grocery bill. They don't think outside their monthly bill and don't care about the invisible yet the most important things of life like education, health, justice system etc.

why dont you try to become as poor as them and then we will see how you react
munafaqat ke bhee koee hud nonee chahaiya
80% of Pak is not mummy daddy cake burgers like youhtees

 

[MRT.abcd]

It is not only Bajwa. It is a CIA's approved circle in the Pak army. Not all generals are bad but if we drive our conclusion from what happened in Pakistan recently, we can easily say that most of the generals are CIA clowns and they control the Election commission, Judiciary, and politics in Pakistan. It is highly likely that these generals have overseas villas and bank balances. End of the day they are not going to provide this lifetime service for free.

To sum up, They have both law and power in their hands. The people of Pakistan are irrelevant here. Go to any province of Pakistan you will find people who can't even feed themselves.
It's time to kick these generals in the butt and fire them.

 

[crankthskunk]

First of all, please use a normal sized font, I click on the notification and all I see is this HUGE WALL OF TEXT right in my face! I had to zoom out to -150% just to be able to read it.

Ok now putting that aside, what you have written is just what has happened and the larger American plan for Pakistan. No one is challenging that. But seems like you totally missed my point, in fact you are no where even close to it.

You need to understand two concepts first, absolute supremacy of civilian executive over the armed forces as is enshrined in the constitution and that the armed forces are subordinates of the civilian leadership, no matter how big and strong they are.

No General, COAS or any one from the top brass will ever think of doing any of what is mentioned in your aforementioned post if he knows he is also under the rule of law and there can and will be grave consequences for his actions.

Former Turkish military chief Evren sentenced to life for staging 1980 coup

Former army chief Kenan Evren, 96, who came to symbolise the military's dominance over Turkish political life over decades, was sentenced to life in jail on Wednesday for leading a 1980 coup that resulted in widespread torture, arrests and deaths.

www.reuters.com

I am sure you live in a novel world my friend.
We know what happened to Bhutto.
And same could happen to Imran Khan if he is not careful and take safety precaution.
I suggest you keep your text book's opinion to yourself. We live in real world.

Facts:
Musharaf and Kiyani got away with illegal acts, subversion of constitution, breach of their oaths. Conspiring with a foreign power against people of Pakistan.

Bajwa and Nadeem would get away with their illegal acts, over throwing a legitimate and elected government, subversion of constitution, breach of their oaths. Conspiring with a foreign power against people of Pakistan.

The evidence of conspiracy exists, in recorded form. https://twitter.com/x/status/1518156989443969025
After hearing above evidence now consider the statement issued by NSC.
Investigations carried out but no evidence of Conspiracy is found.

SS part of the conspiracy sitting with two co-consipirators Bajwa and Nadeem have declared , we are whiter than white, no conspiracy , honest.

You wanna believe it, go ahead, it is a free world.

 

[Citizen X]

I am sure you live in a novel world my friend.
We know what happened to Bhutto.
And same could happen to Imran Khan if he is not careful and take safety precaution.
I suggest you keep your text book's opinion to yourself. We live in real world.

Facts:
Musharaf and Kiyani got away with illegal acts, subversion of constitution, breach of their oaths. Conspiring with a foreign power against people of Pakistan.

Bajwa and Nadeem would get away with their illegal acts, over throwing a legitimate and elected government, subversion of constitution, breach of their oaths. Conspiring with a foreign power against people of Pakistan.

The evidence of conspiracy exists, in recorded form. https://twitter.com/x/status/1518156989443969025
After hearing above evidence now consider the statement issued by NSC.
Investigations carried out but no evidence of Conspiracy is found.

SS part of the conspiracy sitting with two co-consipirators Bajwa and Nadeem have declared , we are whiter than white, no conspiracy , honest.

You wanna believe it, go ahead, it is a free world.

Agar sirf unko pata hota ke woh ghulam nahi hai

 

[Citizen X]

they control the Election commission, Judiciary, and politics in Pakistan.

Thats my question why? Why have we allowed them to have this power?

It's time to kick these generals in the butt and fire them.

Thats the point I'm trying to make, this is like putting a band aid on a gunshot wound. Changing generals will not and has not changed anything. The point is they shouldn't have the power for political interference and engineering in the first place.

 

[stargazer]

Like Sami Ibrahim said the main purpose of PMIK's efforts is to expose the Judiciary, collaborators of this nefarious, heinous crime against the people and nation of Pakistan.
What else do we expect from him vs all-powerful actors colluding against one party one man?
Allah's help is what will bring a change when the people act to want the change.

 

[khanbahadur]

‏اگر کسی نے پاکستان کی طرف میلی آنکھ سے دیکھا
تو اس کا نام ای سی ایل سے نکال دیں گے

‎?

 

[Awami Awaz]

لگتا ہے تنگ آ کر فوجی ترجمان نے یوتھیوں کی زبان میں بولنا ہے،
" او پین یکو کتی دے پترو، کوئی سازش نئی ہوئی، ہن جے تسی اپنی مرضی دا مطلب کڈیا تے کپتان دی پین نوں ل دے دیاں گے"

 

[disgusted]

The basic problem is absense of rule of law. The judiciary has repeatedly brushed illegal acts by Army and Civilians. The man on the street is finally made to hold the dirty end of the stick. If we analyze our judiciary there only two noble judges in our superior judiciary. Both of them were non-Muslim. Justice Cornelius and Justice Dorab Patel. IT is a shame for us Muslims we could not produce a single honest judge.

 

[Eagle-on-the-green]

Same office……men are different.