Read my article explaining the Financial Crisis of 2008
"Islamic Banking" is DOUBLE Haraam - Sheikh Umer Vadillo
- Thread starter AsifAmeer
- Start date
Unicorn
Banned
I agree with him 100 percent including when he says that it is not the solution of all the problems and I see major problems. I think some one in Pakistan should start minting Dinars and Durhams privately just like in Malaysia and see where it goes. It would make the government and the banks irrelevant for the most part if people start to buy and trade with it. Let people deal with money transfers privately.
punjabi_tha
Councller (250+ posts)
I can't see the video at the moment so I cannot comment on what he says but normally the opponents of Islamic Banking say the same thing that it is exactly like conventional banking system where you lend money on interest but named differently. But I don't agree with this point because if you see a goat being slaughtered by non Muslim and a Muslim, both will look the same there is no difference but still one is haram and other is halal because the later take's Allah's name on it. So this slight difference makes it halal but physically they may look the same. In the same way Islamic Banking has slight differences as compared to conventional banking which may not be visible to naked eye immediately.
Secondly a common person has to rely on judgement of Muslim scholars and he can't personally check each and everything. I mean when Islamic Banks have sharia advisory board employing knowledgeable persons like Mufti Taqi Usmani and they say that this is halal then who are we to say otherwise? A common man has to rely on religious scholars in this matter just like you rely on doctor in medical matters and accountant in financial matters. Or you start your own investigation and prove yourself that you are right!?
How many of you have personally checked each and every food item that is sold that it is halal? I mean for e.g. what if the innocent Rooh Afza we drink is haram? How can you be so sure that it is halal? Have you personally tested it? I know you will say that there must be some government body that oversees this and since it is in market and sold so widely hence it must be halal. So this is not your responsibility to check each and everything because you simply cannot.
In the same way don't you have to rely on knowledgeable religious scholars who also knows financial matters in this regard? If you say no we do not have to rely and personally check it then I must say you start checking each and every item you eat and drink like Nestle mineral water, Haleeb milk, Daal maash, KFC e.t.c and don't just rely labels on their product which says "Halal"
Secondly a common person has to rely on judgement of Muslim scholars and he can't personally check each and everything. I mean when Islamic Banks have sharia advisory board employing knowledgeable persons like Mufti Taqi Usmani and they say that this is halal then who are we to say otherwise? A common man has to rely on religious scholars in this matter just like you rely on doctor in medical matters and accountant in financial matters. Or you start your own investigation and prove yourself that you are right!?
How many of you have personally checked each and every food item that is sold that it is halal? I mean for e.g. what if the innocent Rooh Afza we drink is haram? How can you be so sure that it is halal? Have you personally tested it? I know you will say that there must be some government body that oversees this and since it is in market and sold so widely hence it must be halal. So this is not your responsibility to check each and everything because you simply cannot.
In the same way don't you have to rely on knowledgeable religious scholars who also knows financial matters in this regard? If you say no we do not have to rely and personally check it then I must say you start checking each and every item you eat and drink like Nestle mineral water, Haleeb milk, Daal maash, KFC e.t.c and don't just rely labels on their product which says "Halal"
The Judgment on Riba
By Umar Ibrahim Vadillo
It is generally assumed that from the point of view of material wealth, things have never been better than today. That, despite just crossing over the most murderous century in human history which saw the first-time use of weapons of mass destruction on civilian population, the colossal annihilation of the eco-system and fauna, and the largest numbers of starvation victims known in history. All past and present miseries are forgotten before the general assumption that the average person today enjoys a standard of living not equalled in any other time. Yet, it has not been the same for all people of the world. While a material improvement has been achieved for a relatively small portion of mankind, the bottom half still lives on an income inferior to the poverty line of 2 USD a day, and collectively inferior to the income of the 387 largest individual earners. This disequilibrium in wealth goes hand in hand with an equal in political and military imbalance that has turned one nation in particular into the police ruler of the world.
During this period of massive shift of wealth to a small corner of the world, Muslims have lost an immense part of their past economic and political status. The political unity represented by the Khalifate that granted Muslims a voice in world affairs was devastated, and instead a trail of tiny nations emerged under the auspices and new legal frame of the UN. Large parts of our population belong to the bottom half of world earners and our combined GDP does not reach 1/10 of the US. Politically divided, and losers in the economic sharing, Muslims only face the prospect of being underdogs in the present economic system. Under this regime a continuous erosion of our social and cultural life is inevitable which in turn results in the increased anger and frustration of our youth.
This present system of economic disequilibrium is self-preserved by diverting attention away from economic matters into political matters. The economic system which causes the imbalance is taken for granted and individual political tyrants become the focus of political struggle. Under these circumstances the economic system remains unquestionable and therefore its continuation is granted.
At its core this system of disequilibrium which we call capitalism is based on usury. Usury is in itself disequilibrium. Mechanised usury through the banking system has turned a criminal contract into a means of economic domination. For as long as we remain slaves of riba our Muslim nation will remain enslaved.
A society which misunderstands the dynamics of the world will find it difficult to focus in establishing its goals. These are swept away in the emotion of the moment. And so, acts which are intended to do good are lost by the lack of direction. In these circumstances, no amount of effort will prove fruitful.
Understanding Riba is essential to understanding capitalism. The Islamic understanding of riba opens the path to restore our own muamalat and thus create the tools that can overcome the present system. Riba is not only negative. It opens the path to the positive construction of the halal. Only when we remain confused between the halal and the haram can our enemies find it easy to destroy our efforts. In this document we intend to cast some light on this matter of Riba.
Allah says in the Quran:
Allah has permitted trade and forbidden usury
Riba represents the opposite of trading, it is the corruption of trading. There cannot be trading with riba, nor riba with trading. Yet, riba has become the core of todays face of kufr: capitalism. For this reason, riba is the most important political issue facing our Muslim nation today. Riba affects every aspect of our life and it is traceable to two main institutions: the Bank and the State. Despite its importance this understanding remains superficial for most Muslims. Most people simply think that riba is merely interest. The reality of riba is a much more complex affair. This misunderstanding is not just a miscalculation; it is the product of a mis-education and indoctrination which has resulted from two phenomena: one, the destruction of the political power of the Khalifate, and two, the process of the so-called Islamic reform which followed. This misunderstanding opened the gates to the islamisation of the most important institution of capitalism: the bank. What the open market-place is to trading, the bank is to riba. A reformed riba would allow the new promoters of the Islamic bank to justify their actions. It is for this reason essential to return to a correct understanding of this key term in the fiqh, that can allow us to discern what is haram and what is halal. This is crucial to overcome capitalism, and its illusion of power.
This brief introduction will try to outline as plainly as possible the issue of Riba in Islamic Law, and to undo the misunderstanding created by the reformers and modernist scholars.
Riba literally means 'excess' in Arabic. Qadi Abu Bakr ibn al-Arabi, in his Ahkamul Quran defines it as: any excess between the value of the goods given and their countervalue (the value of the goods received). This excess refers to two matters:
1] an extra benefit arising from unjustified increase in the weight or measure, and
2] an extra benefit arising from unjustified delay.
These two aspects have led our scholars to define two types of riba. Ibn Rushd said:
The jurists unanimously agreed about riba in bay (trade) that it is of two kinds: delayed (nasiah) and stipulated excess (tafadul).
That is to say, there are two types of riba:
1] Riba al-Fadl (excess of surplus)
2] Riba al-Nasiah (excess of delay)
Riba al-fadl refers to quantities. Riba al-nasiah refers to time delay.
Riba al-fadl is very easy to understand. In a loan, riba al-fadl is the interest that is overcharged. But in general it represents when one party demands an additional increase to the counter-value. One party gives something worth 100 in exchange for something worth 110. This is also the forbidden case when two sales transactions are linked by a single contract (known as two transactions in one), in which one party is obliged to sell something at one price and to resell it after a time to the original seller for a decreased value. As a matter of fact, this is only a subterfuge to disguise the loan with interest under the pretence of a sale. Nobody needs these subterfuges today because you can get the loan directly in the bank. But the Islamic banks have resorted to this old trick to deceive their customers under the misinterpreted name of murabaha.
Understanding Riba al-nasiah is more subtle. It is an excess in time (a delay) artificially added to the transaction. It is an unjustified delay. This refers to the possession (ayn) and its non-possession (dayn) of the medium of payment (gold, silver and food-stuff -which was used as money). Ayn is tangible merchandise, often referred to as cash. Dayn is a promise of payment or a debt or anything whose delivery or payment is delayed. To exchange (safr) dayn for ayn of the same genus is Riba al-nasiah. To exchange dayn for dayn is also forbidden. In an exchange it is only allowed to exchange ayn for ayn.
This is supported by many hadith on the issue. Imam Malik related:
'Yahya related to me from Malik that he had heard that al-Qasim ibn Muhammad said, "'Umar ibn al-Khattab said, 'A dinar for a dinar, and a dirham for a dirham, and a sa' for a sa'. Something to be collected later is not to be sold for something at hand.'"
Yahya related to me from Malik that Abu'z-Zinad heard Sa'id al Musayyab say "There is usury only in gold or silver or what is weighed and measured of what is eaten and drunk."
The hanafi scholar Abu Bakr al-Kasani (d. 587H) wrote:
As for riba al-nasa it is the difference (excess) between the termination of delay and the period of delay and the difference (excess) between the possession (ayn) and non-possession in things measured and weighed with different genera as well as in things measured and weighed with the uniformity of genera. This is according to al-Shafii (may Allah bless him), it is the difference between the termination of the period and the delay in foodstuff and precious metals (with currency-value) specifically.'
Riba al-nasiah refers particularly to the use of dayn in the exchange (sarf) of the same genera. But the prohibition is extended to sales in general when the dayn representing money overpasses its private nature and replaces the ayn as a medium of payment.
Imam Malik, may Allah be merciful to him, illustrates this point in his 'Al-Muwatta':
'Yahya related to me from Malik that he had heard that receipts (sukukun) were given to people in the time of Marwan ibn al-Hakam for the produce of the market of al-Jar. People bought and sold the receipts among themselves before they took delivery of the goods. Zayd ibn Thabit, one of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, went to Marwan ibn Hakam and said, Marwan! Do you make usury halal? He said, I seek refuge with Allah! What is that? He said, These receipts which people buy and sell before they take delivery of the goods. Marwan therefore sent guards to follow them and take them from people's hands and return them to their owners.'
Zayd ibn Thabit specifically calls riba those receipts (dayn) 'which people buy and sell before taking delivery of the goods'. It is allowed to use the gold and silver or food to make the payment, but you cannot USE the promise of payment. In it there is an excess that is not allowed. If you have dayn, you have to take possession of the ayn it represents and then you can transact. You cannot used the dayn as money.
In general the rule is that you should not sell something which is there, for something which is not. This practice is called Rama and it is Riba. Malik continues:
'Yahya related to me from Malik from Abdullah ibn Dinar from Abdullah ibn Umar that Umar ibn al-Khattab said: Do not sell gold for gold except like for like. Do not increase part of it over another part. Do not sell silver for silver except for like, and do not increase part of it over another part. Do not sell some of it which is there for some of it which is not. If someone asks you to wait for payment until he has been to his house, do not leave him. I fear rama for you. Rama is usury.'
Rama is today the common practice in all our markets. Dayn currency (paper money, receipts) has replaced the use of ayn currency (Dinar, Dirham). This practice is what Umar ibn al-Khattab meant when he said 'I fear rama for you.'
Selling with delay is not restricted to metals, it also includes food. Malik said, 'The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade selling food before getting delivery of it.'
Therefore, what is prohibited in Riba al-nasiah, is the addition of an artificial delay that does not belong to the nature of the transaction. What does artificial and the nature of the transaction mean? It means that every transaction has its own natural conditions of timing and price.
A loan involves delay but not quantity excess. One person gives an amount of money, after a period of time (excess) the person returns the money without increase. The excess in time is justified and is halal, but adding an increase in the quantity to be repaid is unjustified and is haram. This is Riba al-fadl.
An exchange involves no delay and no quantity excess. One person gives an amount of money and without delay the equivalent is given. Delays are not justified in an exchange. If you want to delay the payment, you have to make a loan, you cannot obtain a loan disguised as a delay exchange. Delayed exchange is Riba al-nasiah.
A rental involves delay and excess and it is halal. When you rent a house, you take possession of the house for a time (excess) and you return it plus the payment of a rent (excess). These excesses both in time and quantity are justified and they are halal.
But you can only rent merchandise that can be hired. You can hire a car, a house or a horse. But you cannot hire money or food stuff (fungible goods). To pretend to hire money is to corrupt the nature of the transaction and it becomes Riba.
Thus every transaction has its conditions relating to its nature. You cannot take the conditions of one type of transaction and try to apply them to the other without corrupting the transaction. To add unjustified conditions or excess to a transaction is Riba.
Since dayn is in itself a delay, the use of dayn is restricted to private transactions and it is prohibited as a general means of payment (money). While dayn per se is halal, it is not halal to use is as money. Dayn is a private contract between two individuals and must remain private. The transfer of dayn from one person to another can be done Islamically, but only by the elimination of the first dayn and the creation of a new one. The dayn cannot circulate independently of what it represents. The owner must take possession of the goods and liquidate the dayn. Dayn cannot be used in an exchange and it cannot be used as a means of payment. It is specifically forbidden to use dayn to pay zakat.
The misunderstanding of Riba by Islamic reformers
Islamic reformers and modernist scholars have made a deliberate effort to equate riba with riba al-fadl and ignore riba al-nasiah. Saying riba is interest is part of this misunderstanding.
Their misunderstanding starts with the early reformers, especially Rashid Reda. Rashid Reda presented a new classification of Riba. Reda made a distinction in the legal treatment of what he called the riba of the Quran and the riba of the Sunnah. Reda maintained that the primary form of Riba was the one prohibited by the Quran, and this prohibition is to be maintained at all times. On the other hand, the texts of the Sunnah prohibit a lighter or secondary type of riba - according to him - which is generally prohibited but may be permitted in case of necessity (darurah).
He maintained that the riba prohibited in the Quran was the riba known as riba al-jahiliyyah (when a person did not pay his due after the stipulated time, the seller would increase the price) which he wrongly equated with riba al-nasiah. And he wrongly said that riba al-nasiah (completely misunderstanding its meaning) was only haram when it involved compound interest, and therefore single interest was excluded from the prohibition. He therefore concluded that simple interest charged or paid by banks was not prohibited by the provisions of the Quran at all, nor by the Sunnah.
He also maintained that the remaining prohibition from the Sunnah referred to the specific event of the exchange. Thus for example if two persons were exchanging gold with each other, the amount of gold must be equal in weight on both sides and the two quantities must change hands on the spot, at once. He argued that unlike the riba al-jahiliyyah, this type was not known to the Arabs, since it was difficult to conceive of why two persons would exchange equal quantities of the same commodity at once. Riba al-fadl was seen as part of the abandoned practice of barter when people would exchange gold for gold (and similar), yet it is not practised any more.
The famous hadith of hand to hand and equal for equal, referring to riba, has not been understood by the modernist scholars. They could not understand the relevance of the argument and the form in which it is described. Gold for gold, equal for equal and hand to hand, is a description of the balance of the transactions. One aspect refers to the equivalence in the quantities which refers by default to riba al-fadl; the other to the immediateness of the transaction which refers by default to riba al-nasiah. It discards the possibility of exchanging gold which is not present (dayn) for gold which is present - ayn. It is very relevant because this is how Muslims got cheated away from their gold, by exchanging it for false promises of gold (the original form of paper money). It follows that in order to make paper money halal, the modernist scholars had to ignore the relevance of this hadith and this formulation.
The hadith refers in the positive to the specific event of exchange of dinars and dirhams of different denomination; in the negative to the impossibility to use promises of payment in the exchange. Both cases are relevant and important to us.
In conclusion, Redas views were that:
A] Riba al-nasiah was only riba al-jahiliyya. And only compound interest was forbidden by it.
B] Riba al-fadl was relative to the exchange. It was secondary in nature and it could be accepted in case of necessity (darurah).
The followers of Reda basically adopted the same classification but differed with him on the issue of the compound interest. They agreed that single interest was also haram, but they agreed that darurah can be applied. And they saw riba al-fadl as being secondary, related to what they saw as barter.
The truth is that both riba al-nasiah and riba al-fadl are prohibited by the Quran. In fact the Riba of the Quran and the riba of the Sunna are exactly the same. The Sunna simply acts as a living commentary of the Quran.
The riba known as riba al-jahiliyyah contains both riba al-nasiah and riba al-fadl. In this transaction, the payment is delayed (nasiah) in exchange for an increase (fadl).
But riba al-nasiah involves more than just the riba al-jahiliyyah.
Implications of the modernist position
By ignoring the true nature of riba al-nasiah, modernist scholars have avoided confronting the issue of paper money. Let us look at this issue which the modernists have missed. Paper money can be considered as ayn or as dayn.
A] If we accept the fact that paper money is dayn, meaning that it is an obligation to pay a certain amount of ayn, then paper money cannot be used in exchange and it is forbidden in two practices:
1. Dayn cannot be exchange for dayn. Paper money for paper money is a debt for a debt, which is prohibited. Malik said: '[The disapproved transaction of] delay for delay is to sell a debt against another man for a debt against another man.'
2. Dayn based on gold and silver cannot be exchange against gold or silver, because that is against the fundamental command: 'Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi from Abu Said al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, Do not sell gold for gold except like for like and do not increase one part over another. Do not sell silver for silver, except like for like and do not increase one part over another part. Do not sell some of it which is not there for some of it which is.'
B] If we accept that paper money is ayn, then its value is the weight of the paper, not what is written on it. If the value of the paper is increased by compulsion, the value is corrupted and the transaction is void according to Islamic Law. Paper money is used by the State as an (illegal) tax and it cannot be presented as an Islamic means of payment.
Understanding riba al-nasiah is fundamental to being able to understand our position regarding paper money. The reason why the modernist ulema took their twisted position on riba was clearly to validate the unthinkable: banking. This justification later turned into Islamic banking. The principle of darurah combined with the elimination of riba al-nasiah has allowed them to justify the use of paper money and in turn to justify fractional reserve banking which is the basis of the modern banking system.
A proper understanding of riba al-nasiah reveals paper money to be a form of riba in itself, because it is intended to be used in a way that is not permitted.
By Umar Ibrahim Vadillo
It is generally assumed that from the point of view of material wealth, things have never been better than today. That, despite just crossing over the most murderous century in human history which saw the first-time use of weapons of mass destruction on civilian population, the colossal annihilation of the eco-system and fauna, and the largest numbers of starvation victims known in history. All past and present miseries are forgotten before the general assumption that the average person today enjoys a standard of living not equalled in any other time. Yet, it has not been the same for all people of the world. While a material improvement has been achieved for a relatively small portion of mankind, the bottom half still lives on an income inferior to the poverty line of 2 USD a day, and collectively inferior to the income of the 387 largest individual earners. This disequilibrium in wealth goes hand in hand with an equal in political and military imbalance that has turned one nation in particular into the police ruler of the world.
During this period of massive shift of wealth to a small corner of the world, Muslims have lost an immense part of their past economic and political status. The political unity represented by the Khalifate that granted Muslims a voice in world affairs was devastated, and instead a trail of tiny nations emerged under the auspices and new legal frame of the UN. Large parts of our population belong to the bottom half of world earners and our combined GDP does not reach 1/10 of the US. Politically divided, and losers in the economic sharing, Muslims only face the prospect of being underdogs in the present economic system. Under this regime a continuous erosion of our social and cultural life is inevitable which in turn results in the increased anger and frustration of our youth.
This present system of economic disequilibrium is self-preserved by diverting attention away from economic matters into political matters. The economic system which causes the imbalance is taken for granted and individual political tyrants become the focus of political struggle. Under these circumstances the economic system remains unquestionable and therefore its continuation is granted.
At its core this system of disequilibrium which we call capitalism is based on usury. Usury is in itself disequilibrium. Mechanised usury through the banking system has turned a criminal contract into a means of economic domination. For as long as we remain slaves of riba our Muslim nation will remain enslaved.
A society which misunderstands the dynamics of the world will find it difficult to focus in establishing its goals. These are swept away in the emotion of the moment. And so, acts which are intended to do good are lost by the lack of direction. In these circumstances, no amount of effort will prove fruitful.
Understanding Riba is essential to understanding capitalism. The Islamic understanding of riba opens the path to restore our own muamalat and thus create the tools that can overcome the present system. Riba is not only negative. It opens the path to the positive construction of the halal. Only when we remain confused between the halal and the haram can our enemies find it easy to destroy our efforts. In this document we intend to cast some light on this matter of Riba.
Allah says in the Quran:
Allah has permitted trade and forbidden usury
Riba represents the opposite of trading, it is the corruption of trading. There cannot be trading with riba, nor riba with trading. Yet, riba has become the core of todays face of kufr: capitalism. For this reason, riba is the most important political issue facing our Muslim nation today. Riba affects every aspect of our life and it is traceable to two main institutions: the Bank and the State. Despite its importance this understanding remains superficial for most Muslims. Most people simply think that riba is merely interest. The reality of riba is a much more complex affair. This misunderstanding is not just a miscalculation; it is the product of a mis-education and indoctrination which has resulted from two phenomena: one, the destruction of the political power of the Khalifate, and two, the process of the so-called Islamic reform which followed. This misunderstanding opened the gates to the islamisation of the most important institution of capitalism: the bank. What the open market-place is to trading, the bank is to riba. A reformed riba would allow the new promoters of the Islamic bank to justify their actions. It is for this reason essential to return to a correct understanding of this key term in the fiqh, that can allow us to discern what is haram and what is halal. This is crucial to overcome capitalism, and its illusion of power.
This brief introduction will try to outline as plainly as possible the issue of Riba in Islamic Law, and to undo the misunderstanding created by the reformers and modernist scholars.
Riba literally means 'excess' in Arabic. Qadi Abu Bakr ibn al-Arabi, in his Ahkamul Quran defines it as: any excess between the value of the goods given and their countervalue (the value of the goods received). This excess refers to two matters:
1] an extra benefit arising from unjustified increase in the weight or measure, and
2] an extra benefit arising from unjustified delay.
These two aspects have led our scholars to define two types of riba. Ibn Rushd said:
The jurists unanimously agreed about riba in bay (trade) that it is of two kinds: delayed (nasiah) and stipulated excess (tafadul).
That is to say, there are two types of riba:
1] Riba al-Fadl (excess of surplus)
2] Riba al-Nasiah (excess of delay)
Riba al-fadl refers to quantities. Riba al-nasiah refers to time delay.
Riba al-fadl is very easy to understand. In a loan, riba al-fadl is the interest that is overcharged. But in general it represents when one party demands an additional increase to the counter-value. One party gives something worth 100 in exchange for something worth 110. This is also the forbidden case when two sales transactions are linked by a single contract (known as two transactions in one), in which one party is obliged to sell something at one price and to resell it after a time to the original seller for a decreased value. As a matter of fact, this is only a subterfuge to disguise the loan with interest under the pretence of a sale. Nobody needs these subterfuges today because you can get the loan directly in the bank. But the Islamic banks have resorted to this old trick to deceive their customers under the misinterpreted name of murabaha.
Understanding Riba al-nasiah is more subtle. It is an excess in time (a delay) artificially added to the transaction. It is an unjustified delay. This refers to the possession (ayn) and its non-possession (dayn) of the medium of payment (gold, silver and food-stuff -which was used as money). Ayn is tangible merchandise, often referred to as cash. Dayn is a promise of payment or a debt or anything whose delivery or payment is delayed. To exchange (safr) dayn for ayn of the same genus is Riba al-nasiah. To exchange dayn for dayn is also forbidden. In an exchange it is only allowed to exchange ayn for ayn.
This is supported by many hadith on the issue. Imam Malik related:
'Yahya related to me from Malik that he had heard that al-Qasim ibn Muhammad said, "'Umar ibn al-Khattab said, 'A dinar for a dinar, and a dirham for a dirham, and a sa' for a sa'. Something to be collected later is not to be sold for something at hand.'"
Yahya related to me from Malik that Abu'z-Zinad heard Sa'id al Musayyab say "There is usury only in gold or silver or what is weighed and measured of what is eaten and drunk."
The hanafi scholar Abu Bakr al-Kasani (d. 587H) wrote:
As for riba al-nasa it is the difference (excess) between the termination of delay and the period of delay and the difference (excess) between the possession (ayn) and non-possession in things measured and weighed with different genera as well as in things measured and weighed with the uniformity of genera. This is according to al-Shafii (may Allah bless him), it is the difference between the termination of the period and the delay in foodstuff and precious metals (with currency-value) specifically.'
Riba al-nasiah refers particularly to the use of dayn in the exchange (sarf) of the same genera. But the prohibition is extended to sales in general when the dayn representing money overpasses its private nature and replaces the ayn as a medium of payment.
Imam Malik, may Allah be merciful to him, illustrates this point in his 'Al-Muwatta':
'Yahya related to me from Malik that he had heard that receipts (sukukun) were given to people in the time of Marwan ibn al-Hakam for the produce of the market of al-Jar. People bought and sold the receipts among themselves before they took delivery of the goods. Zayd ibn Thabit, one of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, went to Marwan ibn Hakam and said, Marwan! Do you make usury halal? He said, I seek refuge with Allah! What is that? He said, These receipts which people buy and sell before they take delivery of the goods. Marwan therefore sent guards to follow them and take them from people's hands and return them to their owners.'
Zayd ibn Thabit specifically calls riba those receipts (dayn) 'which people buy and sell before taking delivery of the goods'. It is allowed to use the gold and silver or food to make the payment, but you cannot USE the promise of payment. In it there is an excess that is not allowed. If you have dayn, you have to take possession of the ayn it represents and then you can transact. You cannot used the dayn as money.
In general the rule is that you should not sell something which is there, for something which is not. This practice is called Rama and it is Riba. Malik continues:
'Yahya related to me from Malik from Abdullah ibn Dinar from Abdullah ibn Umar that Umar ibn al-Khattab said: Do not sell gold for gold except like for like. Do not increase part of it over another part. Do not sell silver for silver except for like, and do not increase part of it over another part. Do not sell some of it which is there for some of it which is not. If someone asks you to wait for payment until he has been to his house, do not leave him. I fear rama for you. Rama is usury.'
Rama is today the common practice in all our markets. Dayn currency (paper money, receipts) has replaced the use of ayn currency (Dinar, Dirham). This practice is what Umar ibn al-Khattab meant when he said 'I fear rama for you.'
Selling with delay is not restricted to metals, it also includes food. Malik said, 'The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade selling food before getting delivery of it.'
Therefore, what is prohibited in Riba al-nasiah, is the addition of an artificial delay that does not belong to the nature of the transaction. What does artificial and the nature of the transaction mean? It means that every transaction has its own natural conditions of timing and price.
A loan involves delay but not quantity excess. One person gives an amount of money, after a period of time (excess) the person returns the money without increase. The excess in time is justified and is halal, but adding an increase in the quantity to be repaid is unjustified and is haram. This is Riba al-fadl.
An exchange involves no delay and no quantity excess. One person gives an amount of money and without delay the equivalent is given. Delays are not justified in an exchange. If you want to delay the payment, you have to make a loan, you cannot obtain a loan disguised as a delay exchange. Delayed exchange is Riba al-nasiah.
A rental involves delay and excess and it is halal. When you rent a house, you take possession of the house for a time (excess) and you return it plus the payment of a rent (excess). These excesses both in time and quantity are justified and they are halal.
But you can only rent merchandise that can be hired. You can hire a car, a house or a horse. But you cannot hire money or food stuff (fungible goods). To pretend to hire money is to corrupt the nature of the transaction and it becomes Riba.
Thus every transaction has its conditions relating to its nature. You cannot take the conditions of one type of transaction and try to apply them to the other without corrupting the transaction. To add unjustified conditions or excess to a transaction is Riba.
Since dayn is in itself a delay, the use of dayn is restricted to private transactions and it is prohibited as a general means of payment (money). While dayn per se is halal, it is not halal to use is as money. Dayn is a private contract between two individuals and must remain private. The transfer of dayn from one person to another can be done Islamically, but only by the elimination of the first dayn and the creation of a new one. The dayn cannot circulate independently of what it represents. The owner must take possession of the goods and liquidate the dayn. Dayn cannot be used in an exchange and it cannot be used as a means of payment. It is specifically forbidden to use dayn to pay zakat.
The misunderstanding of Riba by Islamic reformers
Islamic reformers and modernist scholars have made a deliberate effort to equate riba with riba al-fadl and ignore riba al-nasiah. Saying riba is interest is part of this misunderstanding.
Their misunderstanding starts with the early reformers, especially Rashid Reda. Rashid Reda presented a new classification of Riba. Reda made a distinction in the legal treatment of what he called the riba of the Quran and the riba of the Sunnah. Reda maintained that the primary form of Riba was the one prohibited by the Quran, and this prohibition is to be maintained at all times. On the other hand, the texts of the Sunnah prohibit a lighter or secondary type of riba - according to him - which is generally prohibited but may be permitted in case of necessity (darurah).
He maintained that the riba prohibited in the Quran was the riba known as riba al-jahiliyyah (when a person did not pay his due after the stipulated time, the seller would increase the price) which he wrongly equated with riba al-nasiah. And he wrongly said that riba al-nasiah (completely misunderstanding its meaning) was only haram when it involved compound interest, and therefore single interest was excluded from the prohibition. He therefore concluded that simple interest charged or paid by banks was not prohibited by the provisions of the Quran at all, nor by the Sunnah.
He also maintained that the remaining prohibition from the Sunnah referred to the specific event of the exchange. Thus for example if two persons were exchanging gold with each other, the amount of gold must be equal in weight on both sides and the two quantities must change hands on the spot, at once. He argued that unlike the riba al-jahiliyyah, this type was not known to the Arabs, since it was difficult to conceive of why two persons would exchange equal quantities of the same commodity at once. Riba al-fadl was seen as part of the abandoned practice of barter when people would exchange gold for gold (and similar), yet it is not practised any more.
The famous hadith of hand to hand and equal for equal, referring to riba, has not been understood by the modernist scholars. They could not understand the relevance of the argument and the form in which it is described. Gold for gold, equal for equal and hand to hand, is a description of the balance of the transactions. One aspect refers to the equivalence in the quantities which refers by default to riba al-fadl; the other to the immediateness of the transaction which refers by default to riba al-nasiah. It discards the possibility of exchanging gold which is not present (dayn) for gold which is present - ayn. It is very relevant because this is how Muslims got cheated away from their gold, by exchanging it for false promises of gold (the original form of paper money). It follows that in order to make paper money halal, the modernist scholars had to ignore the relevance of this hadith and this formulation.
The hadith refers in the positive to the specific event of exchange of dinars and dirhams of different denomination; in the negative to the impossibility to use promises of payment in the exchange. Both cases are relevant and important to us.
In conclusion, Redas views were that:
A] Riba al-nasiah was only riba al-jahiliyya. And only compound interest was forbidden by it.
B] Riba al-fadl was relative to the exchange. It was secondary in nature and it could be accepted in case of necessity (darurah).
The followers of Reda basically adopted the same classification but differed with him on the issue of the compound interest. They agreed that single interest was also haram, but they agreed that darurah can be applied. And they saw riba al-fadl as being secondary, related to what they saw as barter.
The truth is that both riba al-nasiah and riba al-fadl are prohibited by the Quran. In fact the Riba of the Quran and the riba of the Sunna are exactly the same. The Sunna simply acts as a living commentary of the Quran.
The riba known as riba al-jahiliyyah contains both riba al-nasiah and riba al-fadl. In this transaction, the payment is delayed (nasiah) in exchange for an increase (fadl).
But riba al-nasiah involves more than just the riba al-jahiliyyah.
Implications of the modernist position
By ignoring the true nature of riba al-nasiah, modernist scholars have avoided confronting the issue of paper money. Let us look at this issue which the modernists have missed. Paper money can be considered as ayn or as dayn.
A] If we accept the fact that paper money is dayn, meaning that it is an obligation to pay a certain amount of ayn, then paper money cannot be used in exchange and it is forbidden in two practices:
1. Dayn cannot be exchange for dayn. Paper money for paper money is a debt for a debt, which is prohibited. Malik said: '[The disapproved transaction of] delay for delay is to sell a debt against another man for a debt against another man.'
2. Dayn based on gold and silver cannot be exchange against gold or silver, because that is against the fundamental command: 'Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi from Abu Said al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, Do not sell gold for gold except like for like and do not increase one part over another. Do not sell silver for silver, except like for like and do not increase one part over another part. Do not sell some of it which is not there for some of it which is.'
B] If we accept that paper money is ayn, then its value is the weight of the paper, not what is written on it. If the value of the paper is increased by compulsion, the value is corrupted and the transaction is void according to Islamic Law. Paper money is used by the State as an (illegal) tax and it cannot be presented as an Islamic means of payment.
Understanding riba al-nasiah is fundamental to being able to understand our position regarding paper money. The reason why the modernist ulema took their twisted position on riba was clearly to validate the unthinkable: banking. This justification later turned into Islamic banking. The principle of darurah combined with the elimination of riba al-nasiah has allowed them to justify the use of paper money and in turn to justify fractional reserve banking which is the basis of the modern banking system.
A proper understanding of riba al-nasiah reveals paper money to be a form of riba in itself, because it is intended to be used in a way that is not permitted.
[MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION]:
I advocate Islamic Banking - even with its shortcomings. My knowledge on Islamic Banking is miniscule and I resign myself to the authorities in this matter (The Mufti Taqi Usmanis, Shaykh Taha Karaans of the Islamic world). They have done extensive research on the matter and come about with guidelines and an industry that is purely in the hands of Muslims that must have crossed a trillion dollar USD mark by now (you can correct me on the figure if I am wrong).
Admittedly, there are flaws, but this is still work in progress and not a finished system. True Islamic Banking will remain impossible unless the entire financial and political structure of the Muslim World (or a country at best) doesn't change dramatically. At the moment, everyone who bashes Islamic Banking (amongst self-styled scholars) are mostly those who have very weak grounding in faith (let alone Jursiprudence and that too specialized in Economics and Finance).
The problem with folks like Umer Vadillo is that they construct their arguments around a strawman which they then go on to destroy and claim victory. Mufti Taqi Uthmani and Shaykh Taha Karaan are NOWHERE NEAR 'modernists' much less post-modernists. In fact, both these shuyukh are experts of anti-post-modernism and as orthodox in creed as it gets. Vadillo saheb needs to first learn Jurisprudence before he can even start talking on this topic. Just because a lot of Islamic and Conventional banking coincides in principle and in terms of modalities doesn't mean it becomes haram.
It would be like saying that because Jews believe in One God and Prophets and Angels etc, then we Muslims shouldn't believe in these things because Jews are kuffaar! Trust me when I say this much: Everyone who bashes Islamic Banking has absolutely ZERO grounding in Jurisprudence. Moreover these bashers live in a dichotomous world where they think it is as simple as just uprooting the current financial system in the world and replacing it with a 100% Islamic financial system overnight. This is not only not plausible, but wishful thinking. The change towards a best case Islamic financial scenario will have to be gradual as will its polity.
I advocate Islamic Banking - even with its shortcomings. My knowledge on Islamic Banking is miniscule and I resign myself to the authorities in this matter (The Mufti Taqi Usmanis, Shaykh Taha Karaans of the Islamic world). They have done extensive research on the matter and come about with guidelines and an industry that is purely in the hands of Muslims that must have crossed a trillion dollar USD mark by now (you can correct me on the figure if I am wrong).
Admittedly, there are flaws, but this is still work in progress and not a finished system. True Islamic Banking will remain impossible unless the entire financial and political structure of the Muslim World (or a country at best) doesn't change dramatically. At the moment, everyone who bashes Islamic Banking (amongst self-styled scholars) are mostly those who have very weak grounding in faith (let alone Jursiprudence and that too specialized in Economics and Finance).
The problem with folks like Umer Vadillo is that they construct their arguments around a strawman which they then go on to destroy and claim victory. Mufti Taqi Uthmani and Shaykh Taha Karaan are NOWHERE NEAR 'modernists' much less post-modernists. In fact, both these shuyukh are experts of anti-post-modernism and as orthodox in creed as it gets. Vadillo saheb needs to first learn Jurisprudence before he can even start talking on this topic. Just because a lot of Islamic and Conventional banking coincides in principle and in terms of modalities doesn't mean it becomes haram.
It would be like saying that because Jews believe in One God and Prophets and Angels etc, then we Muslims shouldn't believe in these things because Jews are kuffaar! Trust me when I say this much: Everyone who bashes Islamic Banking has absolutely ZERO grounding in Jurisprudence. Moreover these bashers live in a dichotomous world where they think it is as simple as just uprooting the current financial system in the world and replacing it with a 100% Islamic financial system overnight. This is not only not plausible, but wishful thinking. The change towards a best case Islamic financial scenario will have to be gradual as will its polity.
Murabaha forms the backbone(almost 85%) of the banking (tagged with Islamic) operation -- Please read the following taken from the text of Judgement on Riba' by Mufti Taqi Usmani.
218. Moreover, Islamic banking is not restricted to profit and loss sharing. Though Musharakah is the ideal mode of financing that fully conforms, not only to the principles of Islamic jurisprudence, but also to the basic philosophy of an Islamic economy, yet there is a variety of instruments that may be used on the assets side of the bank, like Murabahah, leasing, salam, istisna, etc. Some of these models are less risky and may be adopted where Musharakah has abnormal risks or is not applicable to a particular transaction. Some of the appellants have complained that the Federal Shariat Court, in its impugned judgment, has declared the mark-up system, too, as against the injunctions of Islam. It means that Murabahah cannot be used by an Islamic bank as a permissible mode of financing.
227. This position is accepted unanimously by all the four schools of Islamic law and the majority of the Muslim jurists. This is the correct legal position of Murabahah transaction according to Shar'iah. However, two points must be remembered:
a) The Murabahah when used as a mode of trade financing is borderline transaction with very fine lines of distinction as compared to an interest bearing loan. These fine lines of distinction can be observed only when all the basic requirements already explained are fully complied with. To ignore any one of them makes it an interest-bearing financing, therefore, it should always be effected with due care and precaution.
b) Notwithstanding the permissibility of the Murabahah transaction, it is susceptible to misuse and keeping in view the basic philosophy of an Islamic financial system it is not an ideal way of financing. Hence it should be used only where the Musharakah and Mudarabah are not applicable.
.......................................
Now go in a bank called Islamic and ask them to finance you on Musharaka/Mudarbah basis , they will see you as if you are from mars. Go one step ahead, ask them to provide you Qarz'e Hasana (afterall it's an Islamic bank), now i am sure they will call an ambulance and send you to mental hospital.
Than please explain to us why Murabaha which Mufti Taqi Usmani himself says is not an ideal form of financing and to be used only where Musharka is not applicable forms the back bone of Islamic banking.
Just like brothels can't be Islamic, Riba can't be ISlamic ; same way banks can't be Islamic- The problem with the Maulanas of our time is that they have been putting in all their energies to provide solutions from within the system which is in itself haraam- They should try to come out of the boundaries of the status quo and give genuine solutions and not cosmetic surgery.
This is what happens once we start giving Islamic label to each andd every thing coming for the capitalistic system:
http://islamonline.com/news/articles/82/Al-Azhar-University-fatwa-allows-for-interest-on-B.html
The December 2002 fatwa issued by al-Azhars Institute of Islamic Jurisprudence is viewed as legitimizing the collection of interest in the context of bank deposits.
This fatwa follows the Azhar view that interest is simply a form of profit on a mudarba and characterises the depositor-bank relationship as that of an investor and his investment agent and legitimized collection of a fixed profit percentage (interest).
http://islamonline.com/news/articles/82/Al-Azhar-University-fatwa-allows-for-interest-on-B.html
The December 2002 fatwa issued by al-Azhars Institute of Islamic Jurisprudence is viewed as legitimizing the collection of interest in the context of bank deposits.
This fatwa follows the Azhar view that interest is simply a form of profit on a mudarba and characterises the depositor-bank relationship as that of an investor and his investment agent and legitimized collection of a fixed profit percentage (interest).
@imran1976:
It wont help if you selectively quote Mufti Taqi Uthmani saheb. In any case, you have yourself pasted a part where he clearly mentions that Murabahah CAN be used as a form of financing (under strict guidelines). So I don't know what is the beef here? Yes, Murabahah can be misused by banks, but like I said these tools are susceptible to misuse so long as Islamic governance doesn't become a norm in Muslim countries. After all, who will regulate whether the banks are following guidelines or not? We have people who misuse perfectly Islamic laws. Even divine laws are going to be misused so long as they are in the hands of infallibles/humans.
So please note that Murbahah is very much allowed and also note that Murabahah does not form "85%" of the backbone of Islamic Banking. Also are you referring to corporate banking or personal banking? Where did you get that figure from? All in all, there are about 7-8 mechanisms of financing and Murabahah is only one of them. Islamic Investments, for example, are almost entirely based on Musharakah, Mudarabah and Sukuk.
As for the Azhar fatwa then please note those were the opinions of the grand mufti who came under a good bashing from his own peers. Like I said, even Islamic laws in the hands of Islamic scholars can be abused. His opinions and those of Shaltut stand rejected as per Ijma' (which is what counts). Jihad is perhaps THE MOST misused Islamic law out there!
Quoting such peripheral opinions to support your point of view reminds me of this one atheist I met who kept quoting the views of ibn Baaz (rah) who believed that the Earth was flat and claiming how the Qur'an and Muslims says that the Earth is flat!
It wont help if you selectively quote Mufti Taqi Uthmani saheb. In any case, you have yourself pasted a part where he clearly mentions that Murabahah CAN be used as a form of financing (under strict guidelines). So I don't know what is the beef here? Yes, Murabahah can be misused by banks, but like I said these tools are susceptible to misuse so long as Islamic governance doesn't become a norm in Muslim countries. After all, who will regulate whether the banks are following guidelines or not? We have people who misuse perfectly Islamic laws. Even divine laws are going to be misused so long as they are in the hands of infallibles/humans.
So please note that Murbahah is very much allowed and also note that Murabahah does not form "85%" of the backbone of Islamic Banking. Also are you referring to corporate banking or personal banking? Where did you get that figure from? All in all, there are about 7-8 mechanisms of financing and Murabahah is only one of them. Islamic Investments, for example, are almost entirely based on Musharakah, Mudarabah and Sukuk.
As for the Azhar fatwa then please note those were the opinions of the grand mufti who came under a good bashing from his own peers. Like I said, even Islamic laws in the hands of Islamic scholars can be abused. His opinions and those of Shaltut stand rejected as per Ijma' (which is what counts). Jihad is perhaps THE MOST misused Islamic law out there!
Quoting such peripheral opinions to support your point of view reminds me of this one atheist I met who kept quoting the views of ibn Baaz (rah) who believed that the Earth was flat and claiming how the Qur'an and Muslims says that the Earth is flat!
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@imran1976:
Here is a quick read on the glossary of the nomenclature of Islamic Banking and a very brief history. You must note that a lot of conventional banking was originally COPIED from Islamic economics. So much so, that even the nomenclature of modern-day conventional banking uses Islamic terms (such as CHEQUES from sukuk, singular SAKK, etc).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking#Murabahah
Here is a quick read on the glossary of the nomenclature of Islamic Banking and a very brief history. You must note that a lot of conventional banking was originally COPIED from Islamic economics. So much so, that even the nomenclature of modern-day conventional banking uses Islamic terms (such as CHEQUES from sukuk, singular SAKK, etc).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking#Murabahah
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My quoting 85% reminded you of an atheist -- I wonder who will you recall on hearing that Prof. Imran Ahsan Khan Nyazee quotes it 90%:
"murabah. ah continues to dominate Islamic banking to an extent
of ninety percent or more, according to some estimates"
Did you read the fine line mentioned by Mufti Taqi Usmani, yes this line has been crossed and these banks are just fooling people in the name of Islam, nothing new !
[MENTION=22694]imran1976[/MENTION]:
You dodged the question - are you referring to personal or corporate banking? I will agree with you that the emphasis on Murabahah is more in personal banking (for example, buying of car, property etc). But that is JUST NOT the case in corporate banking! Have you tried investing in an Islamic bank? Moreover, do you even know how business is conducted from the pool of money by Islamic banks to businesses? And how the profit is shared with investors? It's all done on Musharakah, Mudarabah and Sukuk as I have told you. No Murabahah there whatsoever!
Yes, banks will misuse and tweak the advise of 'ulama because there is NO REGULATORY BODY for Islamic finance. Governments till date continue to work on the conventional system so we are stuck in this problem in the foreseeable future for now. How does that small fact rubbish the general idea of Islamic Economics that is STILL a system in its infancy (lest you forget)??
By the way, what do you with your money if you don't mind me asking (the libertarians [MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION] and [MENTION=14890]mrk123[/MENTION] better not be watching!)? Where does your monthly salary go and how? Do you not have a bank account (be it even a simple checkings account)? How do you conduct money transfers over long distances?
If you do have a bank account I am pretty certain that you are banking with HSBC or one of the other 'global banks'. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to live in the world today without a bank account (unless you live in the village compeltely cut off from the world). Even paper currency is not up-to-the-mark as far as its shar'i compliance goes. So, what, now you will tell me that you dont even use paper currency because it is HARAM?
Please get out of this simplistic, dichotomous world for your own good. If not for anything else, why can't you put your money in an Islamic Bank, which after all is controlled by Muslims (no matter how misguided or cunning they may be)? Half our problems today are because of our monies being in the hands of our enemies! Where do you think Zardari and Musharraf stack their ill-gotten cash? In Dubai Islamic Bank or the HSBCs or Standard Chartereds of the world?
Our rulers are pigs, I agree. But if not for a convicing Islamic argument, then put your money in the hands of your own people. It will only be a small part that you play in the self-reliance of the Muslim ummah. We are marching towards Islamic Governance and Khilafah and these are all small steps. Don;t try to be a party pooper and stress on the obvious disparities and prolong our stay in this rut!
You dodged the question - are you referring to personal or corporate banking? I will agree with you that the emphasis on Murabahah is more in personal banking (for example, buying of car, property etc). But that is JUST NOT the case in corporate banking! Have you tried investing in an Islamic bank? Moreover, do you even know how business is conducted from the pool of money by Islamic banks to businesses? And how the profit is shared with investors? It's all done on Musharakah, Mudarabah and Sukuk as I have told you. No Murabahah there whatsoever!
Yes, banks will misuse and tweak the advise of 'ulama because there is NO REGULATORY BODY for Islamic finance. Governments till date continue to work on the conventional system so we are stuck in this problem in the foreseeable future for now. How does that small fact rubbish the general idea of Islamic Economics that is STILL a system in its infancy (lest you forget)??
By the way, what do you with your money if you don't mind me asking (the libertarians [MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION] and [MENTION=14890]mrk123[/MENTION] better not be watching!)? Where does your monthly salary go and how? Do you not have a bank account (be it even a simple checkings account)? How do you conduct money transfers over long distances?
If you do have a bank account I am pretty certain that you are banking with HSBC or one of the other 'global banks'. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to live in the world today without a bank account (unless you live in the village compeltely cut off from the world). Even paper currency is not up-to-the-mark as far as its shar'i compliance goes. So, what, now you will tell me that you dont even use paper currency because it is HARAM?
Please get out of this simplistic, dichotomous world for your own good. If not for anything else, why can't you put your money in an Islamic Bank, which after all is controlled by Muslims (no matter how misguided or cunning they may be)? Half our problems today are because of our monies being in the hands of our enemies! Where do you think Zardari and Musharraf stack their ill-gotten cash? In Dubai Islamic Bank or the HSBCs or Standard Chartereds of the world?
Our rulers are pigs, I agree. But if not for a convicing Islamic argument, then put your money in the hands of your own people. It will only be a small part that you play in the self-reliance of the Muslim ummah. We are marching towards Islamic Governance and Khilafah and these are all small steps. Don;t try to be a party pooper and stress on the obvious disparities and prolong our stay in this rut!
BTW [MENTION=22694]imran1976[/MENTION]:
Do you, by any chance, live in the UAE? You sound awfully familiar to a person I know! His name is Imran, too, and his year of birth is similar to yours! He was an ex-banker with HSBC who has now changed his field of work to controlling finances of a local construction company.
If I have the right person then I am an old friend of yours! Excuse this if I have the wrong number :)
Do you, by any chance, live in the UAE? You sound awfully familiar to a person I know! His name is Imran, too, and his year of birth is similar to yours! He was an ex-banker with HSBC who has now changed his field of work to controlling finances of a local construction company.
If I have the right person then I am an old friend of yours! Excuse this if I have the wrong number :)
punjabi_tha
Councller (250+ posts)
[MENTION=22694]imran1976[/MENTION]
Like Aleph said don't "pick and choose". And if Islamic banking is so unIslamic, why is Mufti Taqi Usmani sitting in sharia board of different banks?
Here are two Mudarabah examples from Meezan Bank
http://meezanbank.com/rupeeSavingAccount.aspx
http://meezanbank.com/monthlyMudarbahCertificate.aspx
Like Aleph said don't "pick and choose". And if Islamic banking is so unIslamic, why is Mufti Taqi Usmani sitting in sharia board of different banks?
Here are two Mudarabah examples from Meezan Bank
http://meezanbank.com/rupeeSavingAccount.aspx
http://meezanbank.com/monthlyMudarbahCertificate.aspx
To start implementing Shariah compaint banking, the first step to be taken is to get rid of conventional banking system. You cannot get rid of it in a year or so just by closing all the banks. You need to get an alternative first which is far more nearer to shariah and then gradually move away from any type of banking system. Thats what the great shaykh Mufti Taqi Usmani sahab is trying to do.
Will any government in the world accept closing down all the banks in a country? The answer is no unless the government itself is 100% shariah complaint which is rare or you can say not at all present in the current muslim world. Wait for Taliban to come back in power in Afghanistan, only then we can have a fully shariah complaint banking system in a muslim country.
Will any government in the world accept closing down all the banks in a country? The answer is no unless the government itself is 100% shariah complaint which is rare or you can say not at all present in the current muslim world. Wait for Taliban to come back in power in Afghanistan, only then we can have a fully shariah complaint banking system in a muslim country.
I don't know why has it even being discussed in such a detail. I mean the possibility of Islamic Banking being halaal. Banking can't ever be halaal but as pork can be eaten when life is endangered and the person intends no sin or to treat his taste buds.
For Taqi Usmani heading shariat boards of banks, money makes the mare go mates, money makes the mare go. What can you expect from people who supported CIA-designed afghan jihad and proved that it was a war of Islam and of Pakistan.
For Taqi Usmani heading shariat boards of banks, money makes the mare go mates, money makes the mare go. What can you expect from people who supported CIA-designed afghan jihad and proved that it was a war of Islam and of Pakistan.
I also ask the same question, WHy?
