GCC Vs Pakistan (myths vs reality)

TeslaCoil

Voter (50+ posts)
(I hope my thread will be posted, and taken seriously considering the current situation)

Pakistan parliament decided not to take part in Yemen Conflict was taken in GCC exactly the same manner as if you ask your housemaid to do some work and he/se declined. You started YELLING > THREATS etc...
See what recently all GCC countries did and published in their official papers.

Kuwait Daily, Gulf news,
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/kuwait/kuwaiti-daily-launches-scathing-attack-on-pakistan-1.1490430
http://www.emirates247.com/news/pakistan-is-not-the-ideal-ally-2015-04-14-1.587336
http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/government/gargash-pakistan-s-vote-on-yemen-unexpected-1.1489701
http://tribune.com.pk/story/869184/gulf-countries-do-not-need-pakistan-pakistan-needs-them-kuwaiti-daily/
Yesterday Bahraini cartoonist redicule Pakistan
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCgVbn0WMAIq2GN.jpg:large

Many twitter threads and faceook compaigns against Pakistan are underway.........

GROUND REALITY:
- It shows None of the GCC country has courage to fight against Houthis and Yemeni army on ground. Infact they are not having capacity and capability to fight against them since Yemen is not known to anyone. Ottoman lost saying we dont know Yemen and we never tried learning it
- GCC morally lost the war because their armies are not courageous enough to fight on ground
- Above articles and statement of UAE minister is in reality a frustration. Gargash statement showed clear frustration

- Decisive Storn is a poorly launched compaign , and there is no doubt that they already lost morally against Houthis and Yemeni army.

- With increasing air strickes more and more Yemenis are joining Houthis club. See reaction of Yemenis on blogs and on Aljazeera etc. Yemenis are capable of attacking GCC especially Saudi Arabia because they have nothing to lose. The small infrastructure they developed over the decades is stormed by "Decisive Storm".

The influence is not because Iran is doing very good and lobbying hard its mainly due to the reason that the GCC failed to connect different ethnicities they got after independence. The straight line borders while playing tick and cross by French and British resulting in more difficult times and exposing the region.
Just consider in best of times in UAE Ras Al Khaimah government was about to toppled when the cousin planned to overthrow him but later protected by Abu-Dhabi. How Qatar prince came into power and no doubt can be overthrown the same way.

How Omani govt. came into power. Why Aal-e-Saud is not accepted all over Saudi Arabia as a legitimate government. Why Bahraini Khalifa never accepted by the majority of the country. Why Kuwait never able to build a strong community. Why King Salman after getting the control immediately put his sons and brothers at all big positions.




GROUND FORCES:
- Egypt is an option but considering the situation in egypt, Sisi govt will be in danger. Further Sinai province in egypt again started separatist movement.
- Jordan situation is also not good as they need army at home. ISIL is few km away from their borders. Already its ground situation became a police state where army, police is deployed every corner of the country.


- Bahrain (where already Pakistanis are hired and comprises of 50% of Bahraini police and army) are fighting against Shiite rebellion. So Bahrain will be unable to contribute its mercenaries. (The country is 70% Shiite and none of them working in Bahraini army and support Iran)
- KSA needs army for the Eastern province also against people of Al-Hasa, Al-Qatif etc.

Further at the Jordanian border and Iraqi border against Al-Qaeda, ISIS and against Iraqi Shitte govt
- Qatar (where again Pakistani comprises of 25% of army) will not contribute given the fact that Qatar diplomatically doesnt want stable KSA to win its influence in the region. The voice of GCC came out always from AlJazzera (Qatari Channel). Qatari army is again not capable of fighting in this kind of warfare.
- UAE doesnt have proper army capable of fighting since they lack in training and skill and have no experience in fighting on ground.


- Oman is neutral in this , not part of Decisive Storm coalition.
- Kuwait shouldnt be considered here because during Iraq war the whole population came out and stayed in Saudi Arabia. So this tells the Love affair of Kuwaitis to their homeland ("Askaan" in Saudi Arabia showing the weakness of the poeple in high rise building)
- Pakistan's one batallion is already residing in KSA. Lets hope they will not fight against Yemenis (shoulder to shoulder as PM said) and will be recalled.

Even if every country send few of its troops still the morale will be so low that few thousands Houthis will win. Considering the terrain of Yemen it will be another Afghanistan. Do GCC have capability of fight next 10-15 years in Yemen. NATO has different position , with massive support of UN and combined wealth, technology and troops they are failed to establish writ of the government outside Kabul.

Wester countries are taking difficult positions against GCC. Recently Sweden recalled its ambassador. Anti Saudi remarks in Dutch parliament. More and more Human Rights violations in GCC are criticized resulting in difficult times. Two NATO countries Russia and CHina heavy criticism on Syria, Iraq and Yemen is a big concern resulting in frustration.


USA PARTNERSHIP .

Before Houthis launched Aden compaign , US has air base in Aden which immediately abandoned and shifed to Djibouti.
USA was supporting Houthis against Al-Qaida in Yemen. USA was present in Yemen when Houthis captured Sanaa in Spetember 2014.
So now US is partner in this Decisive Storm war giving only logistics and intelegence support :)

(Just to mention important point that it was USA who made ISIS against Assad in Syria, made Shitte Govt in Iraq which is now under Iranian influenece, abondoned Syrian front which is now a proxy war front between Saudi and Iran, during Bahrain Shiite uprising was neutral and considering shifting of 5th Naval fleet to Qatar or Kuwait and during all these years working on a N-dela with Iran). Considering these facts it seems USA wants to balance the power between GCC and Iran , it will help securing Israel interests in the region. Even look today nobody is talking about Gaza situation anymore

PAKISTANIS in GCC:

- In Kuwait there is total ban on Pakistanis , even on visit visas.
- In Saudi Arabia a bill passed last year that Saudi men and women cant marry Pakistani men and women. (its funny because neither men or women in KSA are considered handsome or pretty :) to be considered for marriage.
- In Qatar labour visa policy is most strict for Pakistanis
- Thousands of Pakistanis are serving in the jails of KSA. Many died during flooding two years back but Pakistan foreign office or embassy didnt raise a voice (expected that 200+ Pakistanis died because of flooding in jail)

- UAE visa fee is highest for Pakistanis
- During 2014 late heavy fog in GCC, many Pakistanis were left for more than 18-36 hours at the airports of Dubai, Abu-Dhabi and Doha because the airline couldnt arrange hotels for them due to the reason that Pakistani men were not allowed to go out during to arrival visa policy.
- Many GCC Pakistani residents are well aware how they treat Pakistanis at airports and government offices.

EXPATRIATES & Benefits:

- The expats living in GCC is their requirement , working hard and earn money. Its not free money GCC is paying them as they show in newspaper. Making roads in extreme temperatures, constructing high rise building, dying of heat and dehydration, living in worst conditions (see the labour organization report from ILO website submitted in Brussels)

- Doctors, engineers and accountants are brain drain of Pakistan (its not an achievement)
- UAE: remittances from UAE were 2+ Billion USD, but Pakistanis invested in Dubai more than 3+ Billion USD. Dubai is the black money hub of Pakistanis. Political and Business class is taking out billions of tax payer money. The investment largely came out to UAE from UK is again done by Pakistanis and Indians living in UK not White people

- Pakistanis from Pakistan, europe are frequently visiting Dubai and spending huge sums.
- KSA: Every year highest number of pilgrims come from Pakistan and Pakistanis from US and Europe. Spending billions of dollars. This money is more than what Pakistanis are sending as remittances.

ACTIVITIES OF GCC COUNTRIES TO WEAKEN PAKISTAN:

1. Its well known that UAE secret agency alongwith MI5 was working actively in Balochistan. A compaign was launched against Gwadar.
(Musharraf highlighted the issue, MI5 left and now UAE is working alone)
2. Jundullah group was formed by funding from KSA to target iranian border guards.
3. ASWJ ws funded from KSA to spread Wahabi version of Islam. Saudi Arabia spent billions in closing the gap between Deoband and Wahabism.

4. Al-Rashid Trust was providing the funds to Al-Qaida Pakistan branch.
(Iran was also supporting Shia militias in Pakistan , so infact Pakistan gave a field KSA and Iran to fight proxy war)
5. Its a well known fact that Al-Qaida first outside attach was in Islamabad , Pakistan.

INVESTMENT OF GCC in PAKISTAN:

1. To be honest i didnt get any major investment done by GCC countries in Pakistan. The only investment till date is during tenure of Sheikh Zaid of UAE an airport and three hospitals in Pakistan.
2. GCC should delcare the investment they did in Pakistan it will help in exposing the factions in political and military establishment. We have a right to know where is the money they are talking about.
3. No doubt few masjids and madrassah are funded by GCC which are not serving any good purpose

(I am able to track the investment in India done by Govt of UAE and Qatar and etc. Emaar and Rotana projects. Recently Sheikh of Qatar will be spending Billions USD in India on infrastructure projects)


INVESTMENT PARTNERS:
The sole major contributor of infrastructure projects in Pakistan is USA. From the best universities to state institutions US contributed heavily.
US AID has done very good work. Till date best scholarship to Pakistan comes from USA "Full Bright"
Military support always come from US and China.
Motorways funded by Korea, Car plants developed by Japan, MNC by Europe, Gwadar port by China, all other projects are done by World bank and ADB.

INDIAN LOBBY in GCC
In the newspapers of UAE, Bahrain and Kuwait many Indians are constantly lobbying against Pakistan. Gulf news is famous , its an Indian newspaper in UAE as the news team is highlighting bollywood and corporate India all the time and putting blogs against Pakistanis in GCC.
Look into their past published stories during Dubai 2020 winning bid and etc.
In FInancial sector of GCC, these Indians are showing the risk of Pakistan even more than it has currently.
In Karachi Sofitel Indian lobby was active for the cancellation and finally succeeded. Accor came out completely from Pakistan

ISRAEL AND GCC

KSA and Israel working together against Iran (proved by wikileaks). During the planned striked against N-Sites of Iran , it was decided that refuelling will be done in KSA
UAE has to open trade office for Israel as part of Dubai Expo 2020 winning deal.
There is an active embassy of Israel in Jordan.
Qatar has trade office of Israel
Egypt new govt and army is pro Israel

(Times have changed , Pakistan should involve its policy makers to review if Pakistan should also start developing relations with Israel)PAKISTAN FOREIGN POLICY REVIEW:

Pakistan has to review and decide what is the foreign policy and keep in mind neighbors come first.
Zia times we made the mistake of sending army to GCC countries and Jordan , dont repeat the same mistake.
Self respect is more important than remittances (remittances are merely selling of brains and hard working force).

Make good relations with Iran (not at the expense of GCC, but make it clear to them to show respect) and Central Asia and make a block including China and Turkey. (I like the Int. Minister Nisar comments)

Make policy considering two things in mind:

- Muslim Ummah is a myth (peeople in GCC consider Pakistan as people of lesser God).
- Pakistan is not Fort of Islam (we are just Pakistanis and every Pakistani has a right to practice its religion and want self respect)
- There is no outside threat to Islam (all threats are internal, so keep the house in order to deal with these threats)

PAKISTAN ARMY:

Pakistan army should work for Pakistanis and should not act as mercenary.
Their priority is to protect Pakistanis all over the world.
They should act actively if civilians being killed by Taliban or on Indian border or anywhere else. Not everytime they should wake up after the incidents like APS Peshawar.

INFRASTRUCTURE PROEJCTS:
Economic corridor is most important project. Start and finish it asap. It will help consuming labor and stop brai drain.


Start Iran Pakistan gas pipeline project. Start TAP gas pipeline. This will make Pakistan energy hub and we dont need anymore GCC oil.
Make an economic corridor for Afghanistan and Central Asia also to support them with access to sea waters.
Work on smart cities in Pakistan to develop entirely new cities with all facilities for the people.

IRAN REGIONAL INFLUENCE:


There is no doubt that GCC is in danger because of Iranian growing influence. But this doesnt mean that Pakistan is in danger. Iran was the first country recognised Pakistan and in 1965 war against India provided naval fleet.
Pakistan Shias are not a danger for Pakistan as they are very loyal Pakistanis since we have no discrimination is any institution against Sunni/ Shia. For decades we are living happily next to each other, studying together without any issue. But the threat is very much there for GCC.
Iraqi government is Shiite and pro Iranian. (If ISIL win or Iraqi forces win both situations are good for GCC as the kingdoms will be in danger)


Syrian Govt of Assad is pro Iranian and before losing against ISIL now succeeding with Iranian and Russian help (if ISIL win or Assad wins both conditions are bad for GCC).
In Bahrain 70% Shiite population is pro-Iran. For them Iran is more important than their own country (they regret vote against a separate state whe British left)
In Yemen Houthis (which are Zaidis but pro-Iranian) are controlling Sanaa and advancing in Aden.
Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia is majority Shiite (all oil is in this region went to Red sea through East west pipelines). These people are Pro-Iranian.
Kuwait has Shiite population which considers itself more closer to Iran than Kuwait.

Further With China and Russia becoming more Pro-Iranian. And joyous attitude all over the world on opening of Iranian markets after lifting of sanctions. So technically once lost, Persian Empire is still in the making. Dont know if they will succeed but no doubt they are working hard to regain its control. And in these difficult times GCC instead of bringing Pakistan closer started threatening us. Lets see who will pay the "Heavy Price", time will tell.

Pakistan Govt and Army must need to show courage and keep the morale high. Self Respect is most important in the history of Nations.


DO NOT FORGET "Watu Izzu Mantasha, Watu Zillu Mantasha"
 
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expat_loyal

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Just have a look at state bank recent report GCC countries are the biggest source of remittances to Paksitan a lifeline to reduce the pressure on FX reserves. If furter visa problems created for Pakistanis specially in Saudia and UAE millions jobless will be added to our economy plus reduced remittances. As far as job requirements in concern millions indians, bengalis and fillipinos waiting to grab a job in GCC.

http://www.sbp.org.pk/ecodata/Homeremit.pdf
 

Shahid Abassi

Minister (2k+ posts)
I feel this blog is written while sitting in embassy of Iran. Although I do not disagree to all of it but most of th views shown in this blog are naive and immature. Its true that we should not get involved in Yemen but there is no doubt in the fact that without Middle Eastern remittances, we stand no chance to avoid a bankcruptcy withing few month of such closure. 3,6 million workers in GCC are directly feeding 20 million mouths in Pakistan, and then there is a multiplying effect of this money (when Mr. x sends money to his family, its not only the family which gets bread on the table. It also effects business who sell their products to Mr. X's family). Talking of brain drain and hard working labour, we have no industry and no public funds to employ even 10 % of them. Get real buddy and stop this anti Saudi propoganda at a time of their difficulty. We are in a delicate situation and should help Saudi Arabia in all other ways than sending troops on Yemen soil. Gulf countries have always helped us in hours of our need.
 

Mansoor Khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
Just have a look at state bank recent report GCC countries are the biggest source of remittances to Paksitan a lifeline to reduce the pressure on FX reserves. If furter visa problems created for Pakistanis specially in Saudia and UAE millions jobless will be added to our economy plus reduced remittances. As far as job requirements in concern millions indians, bengalis and fillipinos waiting to grab a job in GCC.

http://www.sbp.org.pk/ecodata/Homeremit.pdf
Based on your theory
in that case raymond davis was also good. he killed the guy but then gave them enough money that even those could not even think of earning the whole life. the whole family enjoyed the party time after sorrow. Actually my friend its not wholly about money. look if we go there thinking of money then we could at best be defined as mercenaries. then why dont we go and fight for america or israel perhaps they could pay us hefty amounts of money even more than these saudis or iranians.
 

Mansoor Khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
I feel this blog is written while sitting in embassy of Iran. Although I do not disagree to all of it but most of th views shown in this blog are naive and immature. Its true that we should not get involved in Yemen but there is no doubt in the fact that without Middle Eastern remittances, we stand no chance to avoid a bankcruptcy withing few month of such closure. 3,6 million workers in GCC are directly feeding 20 million mouths in Pakistan, and then there is a multiplying effect of this money (when Mr. x sends money to his family, its not only the family which gets bread on the table. It also effects business who sell their products to Mr. X's family). Talking of brain drain and hard working labour, we have no industry and no public funds to employ even 10 % of them. Get real buddy and stop this anti Saudi propoganda at a time of their difficulty. We are in a delicate situation and should help Saudi Arabia in all other ways than sending troops on Yemen soil. Gulf countries have always helped us in hours of our need.
though i have to agree on most of ur points but actually my question is. if we go to war with india will the GCC soldiers fight for us or bomb them as our allys or not? we could give them moral support and anything but no boots on ground..
 

expat_loyal

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Based on your theory
in that case raymond davis was also good. he killed the guy but then gave them enough money that even those could not even think of earning the whole life. the whole family enjoyed the party time after sorrow. Actually my friend its not wholly about money. look if we go there thinking of money then we could at best be defined as mercenaries. then why dont we go and fight for america or israel perhaps they could pay us hefty amounts of money even more than these saudis or iranians.
Every other day some is trying to escape Pakistan to land a job in Gulf even illegally many die in the boats or in the borders to get to Gulf for a job. There are simply no jobs here and even security of life so Imagine many Pakistani returned from GULF like they return Shaheen air flight..........Answer the question who will feed them and who will feed the people fed by them.
 

karachiwala

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Thread starter forgot 5% of Pakistani shia population who also prefers Iran over Pakistan. I call them Iran apologists.
 

thinking

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Lots of realities in this column..I support that if any one attack on
KSA or GCC countries..we should defend them..But Yemen war is
wrong choice for KSA. which he will accept later on..Secondly..all
Pakistani who working in GCC countries..are the insurance policy for
these countries..because Pak Army will save theirs peoples and this way
GCC countries have shield for themselves..If Pakistanis are expel then Pakistan
will not interfere or mind..if some thing happened in Arabs countries...
If any war is happen in GCC countries..you will se all expat including Indians
will take the first flight to go home..but Pakistanis will stay till the last..and
will ready to gives theirs blood for our Muslims brothers..This should think by
Arabs..and tackle the Yemen issue..politically..this is good for them..Yemen issue
was a trap for KSA..and they fell in it...
 

Mansoor Khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
Every other day some is trying to escape Pakistan to land a job in Gulf even illegally many die in the boats or in the borders to get to Gulf for a job. There are simply no jobs here and even security of life so Imagine many Pakistani returned from GULF like they return Shaheen air flight..........Answer the question who will feed them and who will feed the people fed by them.
Brother i agree with your points. but you advocate sending your troops to a WAR. you are declaring a WAR with a country you have no reason to. The bombing is not UN sanctioned so u can face the problem of war crimes involvement tomorrow. The money which our people earn is hard earned money. hard earned in sense they dont get respect and treated like slaves. in contrast the money which they pump in our country be it iran or KSA, we pay with our lives as that money is for sectarian purpose. people also die crossing to europe.. There are also other people the indians the bangalis and the philipines why they dont force them? why us? there are 30 million there what about the rest. did they die of foot shortage like somalians? War is a serious business. tomorrow they will want to fight someone else so we would go there too. is this army for pakistan or for the house of saud. this is a blackmail. the army send will comprise of our brothers and son. do u wish to send ur brother to fight and die in yemen? if he dies would u call hiim a shaheed? i dont think so. human lifes are not judged as a financial or commercial item
 

expat_loyal

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Lots of realities in this column..I support that if any one attack on
KSA or GCC countries..we should defend them..But Yemen war is
wrong choice for KSA. which he will accept later on..Secondly..all
Pakistani who working in GCC countries..are the insurance policy for
these countries..because Pak Army will save theirs peoples and this way
GCC countries have shield for themselves..If Pakistanis are expel then Pakistan
will not interfere or mind..if some thing happened in Arabs countries...
If any war is happen in GCC countries..you will se all expat including Indians
will take the first flight to go home..but Pakistanis will stay till the last..and
will ready to gives theirs blood for our Muslims brothers..This should think by
Arabs..and tackle the Yemen issue..politically..this is good for them..Yemen issue
was a trap for KSA..and they fell in it...
O bhai yeah Kahan Ka Falsafa bata rahay hien........ Do you remember what happened during GULF war in Kuwait....... Expats pakitani expelled from kuwait and just last year they got thier compensation......
 

Mansoor Khan

Senator (1k+ posts)
Lots of realities in this column..I support that if any one attack on
KSA or GCC countries..we should defend them..But Yemen war is
wrong choice for KSA. which he will accept later on..Secondly..all
Pakistani who working in GCC countries..are the insurance policy for
these countries..because Pak Army will save theirs peoples and this way
GCC countries have shield for themselves..If Pakistanis are expel then Pakistan
will not interfere or mind..if some thing happened in Arabs countries...
If any war is happen in GCC countries..you will se all expat including Indians
will take the first flight to go home..but Pakistanis will stay till the last..and
will ready to gives theirs blood for our Muslims brothers..This should think by
Arabs..and tackle the Yemen issue..politically..this is good for them..Yemen issue
was a trap for KSA..and they fell in it...
I agree and your points make sense except for pakistanis to stay there and fight for their kapils who suck them dry of their hard earned money. there is my difference. if u live there perhaps u would do the opposite. ;-)
 
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farooqak

Minister (2k+ posts)
In order to remove influence of GCC, Pakistan need to first stop taking their aid. Even for polio vaccination, money comes from UAE (Khalifa Fund) All the schools after floods in Swat have UAE flag on them. First of all stop taking aid from them, and deal person to person.

If they want our army, make them sign on a new policy where we are more favorable than Indians. Right now Indians are more influential than us

Only once Pakistan stop taking aid, will we be given respect. Then slowly change policy towards new friends and opportunities. There will be no new opportunity in GCC. Only aid for polio and truck drivers and credit card sales executive will go from Pakistan.
 

thinking

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
O bhai yeah Kahan Ka Falsafa bata rahay hien........ Do you remember what happened during GULF war in Kuwait....... Expats pakitani expelled from kuwait and just last year they got thier compensation......

Bhai main jitna soch aur sense kar sakta ho wo likh dia..main apni raya
force nahi kar raha..Main ab bhi kehta ho yaqeen ke sath ke agar koi Arabs ke
bothers ke lia lar sakta ha tu wo Pakistanis hain...Main na Iran ke sath ho na KSA
ke..aik musalman ki hissiyat se keh raha ho..Ham musalman slowly slowly..
suicide ki taraf barh rehay hain..main last 20 sal ki examples de kar sabat kar sakta ho
ke ham Musalman kis qadar fools sabat ho rehey hain..Abhi waqt ha..agar aqal se
kaam na lia tu..tabah o babad ho jayain gein...Mark my words
 

karachiwala

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
PAKISTAN ARMY:

Pakistan army should work for Pakistanis and should not act as mercenary.
Their priority is to protect Pakistanis all over the world.
They should act actively if civilians being killed by Taliban or on Indian border or anywhere else. Not everytime they should wake up after the incidents like APS Peshawar.


May be you are not aware of what is happening in the world. Pakistani Army is everywhere doing the Peace Missions. And do not say that is not an army on rent!

 
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