EVM can open up possibility of 'more sophisticated fraud': ECP

miafridi

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
369863_7992243_updates.jpg


ISLAMABAD: The electronic voting machine (EVM) can open up the possibility of "more sophisticated fraud" through the manipulation of software and hardware, the Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) has said.

EVMs are presented as a solution to rigging in the elections, but they "cannot counter all types of fraud", the ECP said, in a 34-point letter sent to Chairman Senate Standing Committee on Parliamentary Affairs Taj Haider on Friday, September 9.

The ECP sent the letter to the standing committee chairman as it continues to be at loggerheads with the government over the use of the machines during the elections, with the Centre stressing that EVMs can ensure transparency.

The ECP said there would be a "lack of evidence in case of election disputes", as it underscored that the compatibility of EVMs with the existing constitutional and legal framework should be considered.

"Many more amendments are required as still many sections are relevant to only physical voting. This needs further deliberations," the ECP told the standing committee's chairman.

The election commission further pointed out that voting machines were not the answer to rigging as they could not stop electoral frauds and other issues that arise during polling.

"The machine cannot prevent issues and electoral frauds like booth capturing, low women voters' turnout, misuse of state authorities, electronic ballot stuffing, vote buying, law and order situation, dishonest polling staff, widespread political and electoral violence, and abuse of state resources by incumbent parties," the letter said.

900,000 machines required​

On the financial front, the election commission said the system would be very costly, as there are approximately 100,000 polling stations and 400,000 polling booths.

The ECP estimated that as many as 900,000 machines would be required, if separate machines were used for National Assembly and provincial assembly elections.

"Keeping in view the initial investment and ongoing costs, including storage cost and hiring and training of staff and other expenditures, this system will cost approximately Rs150 billion," the ECP said.

The election commission said it would be a difficult task to store the 900,000 machines as the ECP does not have warehouses where they can be kept in ideal environmental conditions.

The ECP further raised questions on the sustainability of EVMs. "During presentations, some companies have stated that these will be used only once as the storage cost will be too much while others have stated that these can be used for 2-3 elections."

'No chance of instantaneous results'​

Moving further, the election commission said the most important advantage of EVM usually mentioned is instantaneous results.

"If eight or four machines are used in a polling station, as the case may be, then each machine will give instantaneous results but these will first be consolidated at the polling station and then this consolidated result will be communicated to Returning Officer (RO) either physically or through WhatsApp if internet is available," the ECP said.

"Then it will be verified by the RO, who will consolidate all the results of all polling stations of the constituency. So, no chance of instantaneous results," it added.

'Far, far more vulnerable to large-scale attacks'​

The ECP said another argument used in favour of EVMs is that they will eliminate the rejected votes. "It is true, but we have to see as to how many constituencies are affected by rejected votes as far as winning or losing is concerned."

The election commission said influencing, altering, or destroying a significantly large number of votes is resource-intensive, time-consuming, and costly, and at the very least is likely to produce witnesses and physical evidence.

In contrast, the process behind electronic voting is entirely opaque to the average voter, more error-prone than many might guess, and is "far, far more vulnerable to large-scale attacks", the ECP said.

The ECP highlighted that "most established and new democracies" have decided not to use EVMs.

"Europe and North America have moved away from the use of EVMs while South America/ Brazil and South Asia/India are using this technology. Germany, France, Netherland, Ireland, Italy, and Finland have abandoned this technology," ECP said.

The election commission said only nine countries in the world are using EVMs, with India and Brazil being significant among them.

'CEC acting as Opposition's mouthpiece'​

A heated debate took place today on the usage of electronic voting machines during a session of the Senate Standing Committee on Parliamentary Affairs held under the chair of Senator Haider.

Officials of the ECP walked out of the meeting after federal minister Azam Swati accused the commission of taking bribes.

A livid Swati accused the ECP of taking money from companies that make electronic voting machines, said a source present in the meeting.

Swati added that such institutions conduct all elections through "rigging" and should be "set on fire". At this, the ECP officials walked out in protest.

Following the meeting, Federal Minister for Information and Broadcasting Fawad Chaudhry said that it seems the ECP had become the "headquarters for Opposition parties" and the chief election commissioner is "acting as their mouthpiece".

Speaking during a press conference in the federal capital alongside Swati and Adviser to the Prime Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Babar Awan, Chaudhry said that no one is satisfied with the ECP because "it comes up with strange logic."

Fawad said that the PTI-led government had promised to make the ECP free, fair, and transparent, and to that end, a commission for reforms — headed by Justice Nasirul Mulk — was also formed. However, the ECP remains surrounded by controversies due to its "strange logic."

The minister said that the PTI government had asked the Opposition to come forward and participate in discussions related to electoral reforms.

"The government wanted to incorporate technology in the electoral process [to ensure transparency], however, it seems like the ECP has become the headquarters for Opposition parties."

https://www.geo.tv/latest/369863-ev...eed:+geo/hegG+(Geo+Business+-+Geo+TV+Network)
 
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miafridi

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
In Short : ECP has already made up it's mind not to go for technology based Elections.

Otherwise they would be using it as pilot projects in a constituency or 2 at least to test it's viability before rejecting it.

Now if there is any controversial elections in future it is ECP who is to be blamed because apparently they are trying to be champion of conducting free and fair elections.
 

miafridi

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
In short the blame goes to Donkey Khan who hired this joker and clown in the first place just like Shaukat Tarin.

In short the blame goes to you for voting Imran khan.

PS: that's your logic, so feel the shame and go hit a wall with your head a few times to get your mental condition in balance. 😛🤪
 

disgusted

Minister (2k+ posts)
ECP will have to find out how to make money from Ganjas and murdaris. That is the biggest obstacle for implementing EVMs
 

miafridi

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Elections were always been controversial, so what they are worried about? May be becuas technology will have more importance than these ECP clowns.

That's the whole point. What's stopping them from running at least a pilot project before rejecting it? Their behavior shows that they fear about loosing some stakes which is stopping them from even having a good look at the idea of adopting technology(of any kind) which even according to their own statement is being used by 9 countries in the world.
 

Dr Adam

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)

...اپنے مضامین اور اداریوں کے مجموعے "فرنود" میں جون ایلیا لکھتے ہیں

جہالت کو جتنی رعایتیں ہمارے سماج میں دی گئی ہیں اس کی مثال شاید ہی کہیں مل سکے
 

mskhan

Minister (2k+ posts)
369863_7992243_updates.jpg


ISLAMABAD: The electronic voting machine (EVM) can open up the possibility of "more sophisticated fraud" through the manipulation of software and hardware, the Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) has said.

EVMs are presented as a solution to rigging in the elections, but they "cannot counter all types of fraud", the ECP said, in a 34-point letter sent to Chairman Senate Standing Committee on Parliamentary Affairs Taj Haider on Friday, September 9.

The ECP sent the letter to the standing committee chairman as it continues to be at loggerheads with the government over the use of the machines during the elections, with the Centre stressing that EVMs can ensure transparency.

The ECP said there would be a "lack of evidence in case of election disputes", as it underscored that the compatibility of EVMs with the existing constitutional and legal framework should be considered.

"Many more amendments are required as still many sections are relevant to only physical voting. This needs further deliberations," the ECP told the standing committee's chairman.

The election commission further pointed out that voting machines were not the answer to rigging as they could not stop electoral frauds and other issues that arise during polling.

"The machine cannot prevent issues and electoral frauds like booth capturing, low women voters' turnout, misuse of state authorities, electronic ballot stuffing, vote buying, law and order situation, dishonest polling staff, widespread political and electoral violence, and abuse of state resources by incumbent parties," the letter said.

900,000 machines required​

On the financial front, the election commission said the system would be very costly, as there are approximately 100,000 polling stations and 400,000 polling booths.

The ECP estimated that as many as 900,000 machines would be required, if separate machines were used for National Assembly and provincial assembly elections.

"Keeping in view the initial investment and ongoing costs, including storage cost and hiring and training of staff and other expenditures, this system will cost approximately Rs150 billion," the ECP said.

The election commission said it would be a difficult task to store the 900,000 machines as the ECP does not have warehouses where they can be kept in ideal environmental conditions.

The ECP further raised questions on the sustainability of EVMs. "During presentations, some companies have stated that these will be used only once as the storage cost will be too much while others have stated that these can be used for 2-3 elections."

'No chance of instantaneous results'​

Moving further, the election commission said the most important advantage of EVM usually mentioned is instantaneous results.

"If eight or four machines are used in a polling station, as the case may be, then each machine will give instantaneous results but these will first be consolidated at the polling station and then this consolidated result will be communicated to Returning Officer (RO) either physically or through WhatsApp if internet is available," the ECP said.

"Then it will be verified by the RO, who will consolidate all the results of all polling stations of the constituency. So, no chance of instantaneous results," it added.

'Far, far more vulnerable to large-scale attacks'​

The ECP said another argument used in favour of EVMs is that they will eliminate the rejected votes. "It is true, but we have to see as to how many constituencies are affected by rejected votes as far as winning or losing is concerned."

The election commission said influencing, altering, or destroying a significantly large number of votes is resource-intensive, time-consuming, and costly, and at the very least is likely to produce witnesses and physical evidence.

In contrast, the process behind electronic voting is entirely opaque to the average voter, more error-prone than many might guess, and is "far, far more vulnerable to large-scale attacks", the ECP said.

The ECP highlighted that "most established and new democracies" have decided not to use EVMs.

"Europe and North America have moved away from the use of EVMs while South America/ Brazil and South Asia/India are using this technology. Germany, France, Netherland, Ireland, Italy, and Finland have abandoned this technology," ECP said.

The election commission said only nine countries in the world are using EVMs, with India and Brazil being significant among them.

'CEC acting as Opposition's mouthpiece'​

A heated debate took place today on the usage of electronic voting machines during a session of the Senate Standing Committee on Parliamentary Affairs held under the chair of Senator Haider.

Officials of the ECP walked out of the meeting after federal minister Azam Swati accused the commission of taking bribes.

A livid Swati accused the ECP of taking money from companies that make electronic voting machines, said a source present in the meeting.

Swati added that such institutions conduct all elections through "rigging" and should be "set on fire". At this, the ECP officials walked out in protest.

Following the meeting, Federal Minister for Information and Broadcasting Fawad Chaudhry said that it seems the ECP had become the "headquarters for Opposition parties" and the chief election commissioner is "acting as their mouthpiece".

Speaking during a press conference in the federal capital alongside Swati and Adviser to the Prime Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Babar Awan, Chaudhry said that no one is satisfied with the ECP because "it comes up with strange logic."

Fawad said that the PTI-led government had promised to make the ECP free, fair, and transparent, and to that end, a commission for reforms — headed by Justice Nasirul Mulk — was also formed. However, the ECP remains surrounded by controversies due to its "strange logic."

The minister said that the PTI government had asked the Opposition to come forward and participate in discussions related to electoral reforms.

"The government wanted to incorporate technology in the electoral process [to ensure transparency], however, it seems like the ECP has become the headquarters for Opposition parties."

https://www.geo.tv/latest/369863-evm-can-open-up-possibility-of-more-sophisticated-fraud-ecp-in-letter-to-senate-committee-chairman?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+geo/hegG+(Geo+Business+-+Geo+TV+Network)
Election commission is full of shit, and highly corrupt, they are rejecting EVM in favour of a system that’s already fraudulent and nobody trusts.

These EVMS are not internet based, they cannot be hacked, but even if they were, the election commission can declare those results null and void and re poll there.
 

Resilient

Minister (2k+ posts)
جس ملک میں ایف بی آر کا سسٹم سات دن تک بھارتیوں کے قبضے میں رہے اس ملک میں ای وی ایم مشینیں ہیک نہیں ہوسکتیں؟؟
 

Citizen X

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
369863_7992243_updates.jpg


ISLAMABAD: The electronic voting machine (EVM) can open up the possibility of "more sophisticated fraud" through the manipulation of software and hardware, the Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) has said.

EVMs are presented as a solution to rigging in the elections, but they "cannot counter all types of fraud", the ECP said, in a 34-point letter sent to Chairman Senate Standing Committee on Parliamentary Affairs Taj Haider on Friday, September 9.

The ECP sent the letter to the standing committee chairman as it continues to be at loggerheads with the government over the use of the machines during the elections, with the Centre stressing that EVMs can ensure transparency.

The ECP said there would be a "lack of evidence in case of election disputes", as it underscored that the compatibility of EVMs with the existing constitutional and legal framework should be considered.

"Many more amendments are required as still many sections are relevant to only physical voting. This needs further deliberations," the ECP told the standing committee's chairman.

The election commission further pointed out that voting machines were not the answer to rigging as they could not stop electoral frauds and other issues that arise during polling.

"The machine cannot prevent issues and electoral frauds like booth capturing, low women voters' turnout, misuse of state authorities, electronic ballot stuffing, vote buying, law and order situation, dishonest polling staff, widespread political and electoral violence, and abuse of state resources by incumbent parties," the letter said.

900,000 machines required​

On the financial front, the election commission said the system would be very costly, as there are approximately 100,000 polling stations and 400,000 polling booths.

The ECP estimated that as many as 900,000 machines would be required, if separate machines were used for National Assembly and provincial assembly elections.

"Keeping in view the initial investment and ongoing costs, including storage cost and hiring and training of staff and other expenditures, this system will cost approximately Rs150 billion," the ECP said.

The election commission said it would be a difficult task to store the 900,000 machines as the ECP does not have warehouses where they can be kept in ideal environmental conditions.

The ECP further raised questions on the sustainability of EVMs. "During presentations, some companies have stated that these will be used only once as the storage cost will be too much while others have stated that these can be used for 2-3 elections."

'No chance of instantaneous results'​

Moving further, the election commission said the most important advantage of EVM usually mentioned is instantaneous results.

"If eight or four machines are used in a polling station, as the case may be, then each machine will give instantaneous results but these will first be consolidated at the polling station and then this consolidated result will be communicated to Returning Officer (RO) either physically or through WhatsApp if internet is available," the ECP said.

"Then it will be verified by the RO, who will consolidate all the results of all polling stations of the constituency. So, no chance of instantaneous results," it added.

'Far, far more vulnerable to large-scale attacks'​

The ECP said another argument used in favour of EVMs is that they will eliminate the rejected votes. "It is true, but we have to see as to how many constituencies are affected by rejected votes as far as winning or losing is concerned."

The election commission said influencing, altering, or destroying a significantly large number of votes is resource-intensive, time-consuming, and costly, and at the very least is likely to produce witnesses and physical evidence.

In contrast, the process behind electronic voting is entirely opaque to the average voter, more error-prone than many might guess, and is "far, far more vulnerable to large-scale attacks", the ECP said.

The ECP highlighted that "most established and new democracies" have decided not to use EVMs.

"Europe and North America have moved away from the use of EVMs while South America/ Brazil and South Asia/India are using this technology. Germany, France, Netherland, Ireland, Italy, and Finland have abandoned this technology," ECP said.

The election commission said only nine countries in the world are using EVMs, with India and Brazil being significant among them.

'CEC acting as Opposition's mouthpiece'​

A heated debate took place today on the usage of electronic voting machines during a session of the Senate Standing Committee on Parliamentary Affairs held under the chair of Senator Haider.

Officials of the ECP walked out of the meeting after federal minister Azam Swati accused the commission of taking bribes.

A livid Swati accused the ECP of taking money from companies that make electronic voting machines, said a source present in the meeting.

Swati added that such institutions conduct all elections through "rigging" and should be "set on fire". At this, the ECP officials walked out in protest.

Following the meeting, Federal Minister for Information and Broadcasting Fawad Chaudhry said that it seems the ECP had become the "headquarters for Opposition parties" and the chief election commissioner is "acting as their mouthpiece".

Speaking during a press conference in the federal capital alongside Swati and Adviser to the Prime Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Babar Awan, Chaudhry said that no one is satisfied with the ECP because "it comes up with strange logic."

Fawad said that the PTI-led government had promised to make the ECP free, fair, and transparent, and to that end, a commission for reforms — headed by Justice Nasirul Mulk — was also formed. However, the ECP remains surrounded by controversies due to its "strange logic."

The minister said that the PTI government had asked the Opposition to come forward and participate in discussions related to electoral reforms.

"The government wanted to incorporate technology in the electoral process [to ensure transparency], however, it seems like the ECP has become the headquarters for Opposition parties."

https://www.geo.tv/latest/369863-evm-can-open-up-possibility-of-more-sophisticated-fraud-ecp-in-letter-to-senate-committee-chairman?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+geo/hegG+(Geo+Business+-+Geo+TV+Network)
Translation : Saddi valon naah hi samjo
 

Citizen X

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
ECP is burden on the taxpayers money and should be abolished.

How many countries in the world have an ECP type institution?

If elections are held without EVMs in majority of the world ( one of the logic presented by he ECP ), then elections are held without an ECP type institution also in majority of the world.

Then by their own logic they should all resign and dissolve the ECP
 
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