What are key faults in our society and how to address them

[Noworriesbehappy]

Hi Folks,
I would like to have a positive discussion about what are keys faults in our society and more importantly how to address them.

From my personal expersience, where i have spent 19 year of my life in pak and 22 years in EU. For a healthy society that works for everybody and not just for elite,
Our governments provential or national level, need to take responsibility of all of its people, not just civil servent/Armed forces. Equal opertunities should be provided to everybody. Those in our society who are loess fortunate should get aqssisstance from gocvernment and pay less tax, But those who are rich, should pay their share of tax based on each individual family circumstances.

Just comparing percentage of budget spent in a EU country and pakistan
looking at 21/22 budget, biggest expenditure in Pak (Fed Gov 8.5 Tr PKR) , 36% of budget Debt service, 16% Defence (military), Others 36%
In a EU country, 39.7% Social protection, 26.6% on health, 17% on Education and skills, 4.3% Justice. 1.7% Defence
In most of westeren countries (apart from US), Defence is only 2% or 3%, in Pakist, we are spending 52% on defence and debt services.
Thats the reason we are keep going back to IMF. First we need to grow our export to bringh in more USD. We need to reduce our defence expenditure.

We need to have to indirect taxes and have better direct tax system based on each individual personal circumstances. Government should provide free housing to poor and not to high paid civil servnants.

Why its important to support poor and less fortunate, it has two poisitive effects, first it spreads wealth to poor, who are most likely to spent it on basic needs, as compare to elites who will most likely keep it in banks, and it helps to reduce poverty and crime.

We need big reforms in military, to make sure they can't take over every 10 years and since the compromises rhey make to prolong their rule, the people pay big price for it after many years they are removed from their office, (Nawaz sharif, war on terrror, Gun/drug culture), while these Generrals enjoy whisky every afternoon, playing gtolf after retirement.

We need to end cantonment boards, I have never seen in asny other country where any military has such a privilege life style while ordinary pakistani suffers. While their kids goes to best school/colleges, and get better health facilities and bloody civilian goes to a school where they dont have basic facilities.
All the houses in the cantonment should be given to everybody based on their personal circumstances not because they are public servent.

 

[Masud Rajaa]

The success of a nation depends on its system. In a corrupt system like Pakistan, opportunities and advancement are often only available to those who engage in unethical behavior, leaving little room for honest individuals to thrive. However, when these individuals go abroad, they are able to succeed

 

[Rocky Khurasani]

آج تم رام کے مونس نہ ہنومان کے دوست
تم نہ کافر کے ثنا خواں نہ مُسلمان کے دوست

نہ تم الحاد کے حامی ہو نہ ایمان کے دوست
تم نہ اشلوک کے حامی ہو نہ قرآن کے دوست

تم تو سکّوں کی لپکتی ہوئی جھنکاروں میں
اپنی ماؤں کو اٹھا لاتے ہو بازاروں میں​

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

I honestly believe that in IK, we have a honest leader. looking at PTI policies, it was first step in the direction of social society that works for evrybody.
Hopefully, once we get through last few hurdle of election and control the bull (Army/ISI) by its horn, and reform the military, we can change pakistan.

 

[ts_rana]

سب سے بڑا مسئلہ جھوٹ، انصاف کا فقدان اور پھر عدم برداشت

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

The success of a nation depends on its system. In a corrupt system like Pakistan, opportunities and advancement are often only available to those who engage in unethical behavior, leaving little room for honest individuals to thrive. However, when these individuals go abroad, they are able to succeed

I agree with you, but one of the reason for this mess is lack of interest of middle class in trhe matter of state that directly impact us, which results in people like Raja Riaz ending up in national assembly. seriously, you cant convince me he is more clever or wise in anything, nthan me and you. Hius IQ level is of a child. if he is corrupt, i am sure, you and me can be better than him.

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

سب سے بڑا مسئلہ جھوٹ، انصاف کا فقدان اور پھر عدم برداشت

lack of justice is one of the reason, but "lies", to be honest, Everybody lies, honesty and truth, only exist in ideal life. The problem becomes when, because of a lie, somebody suffer financial and thats where good justice system comes into play, to protect weak and vulnerble..

 

[Raiwind-Destroyer]

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

The simple fact that people are discussing it openly, its a step in right direction. We all know Its ISI/Army mGenerals with the support of Nawz sharif, behind killing of arshad sharif and attack on IK lifes. if anybody has doubt this, he should get mhis head examined.

Now since we know it who is behind this, we have to make sure that we do everything that is in our control to get IK back in Gov with atleast 2/3rd majority.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Hi Folks,
I would like to have a positive discussion about what are keys faults in our society and more importantly how to address them.

From my personal expersience, where i have spent 19 year of my life in pak and 22 years in EU. For a healthy society that works for everybody and not just for elite,
Our governments provential or national level, need to take responsibility of all of its people, not just civil servent/Armed forces. Equal opertunities should be provided to everybody. Those in our society who are loess fortunate should get aqssisstance from gocvernment and pay less tax, But those who are rich, should pay their share of tax based on each individual family circumstances.

Just comparing percentage of budget spent in a EU country and pakistan
looking at 21/22 budget, biggest expenditure in Pak (Fed Gov 8.5 Tr PKR) , 36% of budget Debt service, 16% Defence (military), Others 36%
In a EU country, 39.7% Social protection, 26.6% on health, 17% on Education and skills, 4.3% Justice. 1.7% Defence
In most of westeren countries (apart from US), Defence is only 2% or 3%, in Pakist, we are spending 52% on defence and debt services.
Thats the reason we are keep going back to IMF. First we need to grow our export to bringh in more USD. We need to reduce our defence expenditure.

We need to have to indirect taxes and have better direct tax system based on each individual personal circumstances. Government should provide free housing to poor and not to high paid civil servnants.

Why its important to support poor and less fortunate, it has two poisitive effects, first it spreads wealth to poor, who are most likely to spent it on basic needs, as compare to elites who will most likely keep it in banks, and it helps to reduce poverty and crime.

We need big reforms in military, to make sure they can't take over every 10 years and since the compromises rhey make to prolong their rule, the people pay big price for it after many years they are removed from their office, (Nawaz sharif, war on terrror, Gun/drug culture), while these Generrals enjoy whisky every afternoon, playing gtolf after retirement.

We need to end cantonment boards, I have never seen in asny other country where any military has such a privilege life style while ordinary pakistani suffers. While their kids goes to best school/colleges, and get better health facilities and bloody civilian goes to a school where they dont have basic facilities.
All the houses in the cantonment should be given to everybody based on their personal circumstances not because they are public servent.

Comparing a (former) colony to its colonial masters is just like comparing apples with oranges.

Pakistan, since its inception, had existential threats both from east and west of its borders. So, its defense requirements had always been different than the west.

Yes, I agree that we never got rid of the system that our colonial masters left behind, which ultimately yields corruption and safeguards the interests of Feudal, Capitalists and the "Naukar Shahi" (Miltablishment).

Actually, the role of the "Naukar Shahi" had always been instrumental in the interest of the Western "allies" in the region, in their great power games with China & Russia. Our Capitalists park their money in the safe havens created by the same "western social welfare states" & our feudal lords are still the mass mobilizers and the ones who act as a catalyst to damnation, i.e. through keeping the masses away from literacy and basic needs and controlling their minds and usurping their rights + properties.

The main problem with the world is now that people on the other side ( I mean the west) are also living in a delusion. They think they have democracy installed in the best possible manner, however, had anyone ever had asked the Govt of US about the political regime change operations in the world? Had anyone asked the Govt of UK about their roles in the oil rich regions of Nigeria and Ghana? Had any French really stood up for their role in Darfur? Had any champion against corruption ever raised a question why the west has created so many tax havens like Switzerland, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, US Virgin Islands ... ? And does the world really know the impact of the money in these tax havens in the economies of these G-7 countries?

So, my concluding remarks are that the main problem with our society is that, here only the Gora Sarkar left and but installed their Naukar Shahi, who, till date, keep the interest of the Gora masters above their own. Therefore, much of the light in the west is still produced by the midnight oil of their colonials. Our problem is that we think we are free and this is no less deadlier than any of the westerner thinking that they are "enlightened, honest and saviors of the world". Period.

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

Comparing a (former) colony to its colonial masters is just like comparing apples with oranges.

Pakistan, since its inception, had existential threats both from east and west of its borders. So, its defense requirements had always been different than the west.

Yes, I agree that we never got rid of the system that our colonial masters left behind, which ultimately yields corruption and safeguards the interests of Feudal, Capitalists and the "Naukar Shahi" (Miltablishment).

Actually, the role of the "Naukar Shahi" had always been instrumental in the interest of the Western "allies" in the region, in their great power games with China & Russia. Our Capitalists park their money in the safe havens created by the same "western social welfare states" & our feudal lords are still the mass mobilizers and the ones who act as a catalyst to damnation, i.e. through keeping the masses away from literacy and basic needs and controlling their minds and usurping their rights + properties.

The main problem with the world is now that people on the other side ( I mean the west) are also living in a delusion. They think they have democracy installed in the best possible manner, however, had anyone ever had asked the Govt of US about the political regime change operations in the world? Had anyone asked the Govt of UK about their roles in the oil rich regions of Nigeria and Ghana? Had any French really stood up for their role in Darfur? Had any champion against corruption ever raised a question why the west has created so many tax havens like Switzerland, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, US Virgin Islands ... ? And does the world really know the impact of the money in these tax havens in the economies of these G-7 countries?

So, my concluding remarks are that the main problem with our society is that, here only the Gora Sarkar left and but installed their Naukar Shahi, who, till date, keep the interest of the Gora masters above their own. Therefore, much of the light in the west is still produced by the midnight oil of their colonials. Our problem is that we think we are free and this is no less deadlier than any of the westerner thinking that they are "enlightened, honest and saviors of the world". Period.

You are right, but the fact is "international politics is based on national/personal interest rather than ethics"

So one should not expect from western countries to look after the interest of pakistan, the whole system is designed to give supermacy to USD/ US. The fault lies with our leadership and hence its in our control to fight for a government which protects interest of pakistanis.

I do believe that the current rotten system in pakistan is taking last few breaths. Its the middle class of pakistan that needs to stand up and fight for issues that really impact them.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

You are right, but the fact is "international politics is based on national/personal interest rather than ethics"

It is the interest of the few, which takes precedence. Even in Western Countries, people are living in a delusion. It is basically a particular group who uses those people and us as well.

So one should not expect from western countries to look after the interest of pakistan, the whole system is designed to give supermacy to USD/ US.

Nope. Westerners, even the Eastern "allies" of Pakistan in the North-East will only look for their own interests. It is a well known saying that "in international politics, there are no permanent friends or foes, just interests". Look at India, which is now more close to US than Russia.

The fault lies with our leadership and hence its in our control to fight for a government which protects interest of pakistanis.

Agreed.

I do believe that the current rotten system in pakistan is taking last few breaths. Its the middle class of pakistan that needs to stand up and fight for issues that really impact them.

Brother, I don't want to sound daunting, but let us also realize that this is just a start of a resistance against this system; Overhauls like these take a long sustained effort, spanned over decades, if not centuries.

What was started in 1857 bore fruit in 1947.

Otherwise, the catalyst for these type of changes is only blood.

But as I said that I don't want to sound daunting, therefore, we must appreciate every little step in the right direction because it is still something positive.... and with a good resolve as a nation, we will, one day, achieve our goal.

 

[Arrest Warrant]

Hi Folks,
I would like to have a positive discussion about what are keys faults in our society and more importantly how to address them.

From my personal expersience, where i have spent 19 year of my life in pak and 22 years in EU. For a healthy society that works for everybody and not just for elite,
Our governments provential or national level, need to take responsibility of all of its people, not just civil servent/Armed forces. Equal opertunities should be provided to everybody. Those in our society who are loess fortunate should get aqssisstance from gocvernment and pay less tax, But those who are rich, should pay their share of tax based on each individual family circumstances.

Just comparing percentage of budget spent in a EU country and pakistan
looking at 21/22 budget, biggest expenditure in Pak (Fed Gov 8.5 Tr PKR) , 36% of budget Debt service, 16% Defence (military), Others 36%
In a EU country, 39.7% Social protection, 26.6% on health, 17% on Education and skills, 4.3% Justice. 1.7% Defence
In most of westeren countries (apart from US), Defence is only 2% or 3%, in Pakist, we are spending 52% on defence and debt services.
Thats the reason we are keep going back to IMF. First we need to grow our export to bringh in more USD. We need to reduce our defence expenditure.

We need to have to indirect taxes and have better direct tax system based on each individual personal circumstances. Government should provide free housing to poor and not to high paid civil servnants.

Why its important to support poor and less fortunate, it has two poisitive effects, first it spreads wealth to poor, who are most likely to spent it on basic needs, as compare to elites who will most likely keep it in banks, and it helps to reduce poverty and crime.

We need big reforms in military, to make sure they can't take over every 10 years and since the compromises rhey make to prolong their rule, the people pay big price for it after many years they are removed from their office, (Nawaz sharif, war on terrror, Gun/drug culture), while these Generrals enjoy whisky every afternoon, playing gtolf after retirement.

We need to end cantonment boards, I have never seen in asny other country where any military has such a privilege life style while ordinary pakistani suffers. While their kids goes to best school/colleges, and get better health facilities and bloody civilian goes to a school where they dont have basic facilities.
All the houses in the cantonment should be given to everybody based on their personal circumstances not because they are public servent.

we havent have any ghusal since '47

 

[Visionartist]

bonne ka nipple dey do munh meyn​

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

It is the interest of the few, which takes precedence. Even in Western Countries, people are living in a delusion. It is basically a particular group who uses those people and us as well.


Nope. Westerners, even the Eastern "allies" of Pakistan in the North-East will only look for their own interests. It is a well known saying that "in international politics, there are no permanent friends or foes, just interests". Look at India, which is now more close to US than Russia.


Agreed.


Brother, I don't want to sound daunting, but let us also realize that this is just a start of a resistance against this system; Overhauls like these take a long sustained effort, spanned over decades, if not centuries.

What was started in 1857 bore fruit in 1947.

Otherwise, the catalyst for these type of changes is only blood.

But as I said that I don't want to sound daunting, therefore, we must appreciate every little step in the right direction because it is still something positive.... and with a good resolve as a nation, we will, one day, achieve our goal.

Thanks for reply,
Since I have seen both societies,( I am not big economist or anything else, just ordinary person), rather than having pessimistic discussion, it's my small effort to contribute positively. In doing so, I wanted to summarize key step that can my fellow Pakistani do to get to stage which are important for a healthy society.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Thanks for reply,
Since I have seen both societies,( I am not big economist or anything else, just ordinary person), rather than having pessimistic discussion, it's my small effort to contribute positively. In doing so, I wanted to summarize key step that can my fellow Pakistani do to get to stage which are important for a healthy society.

Disagree that you are just another person. Not everyone these days think like this.

However, agreed to the point that positive thoughts and actions are much required and must be cherished, no matter how small they might be, they still make a good contribution towards the society, rather than being neutral or bad (on the other edge of the spectrum).

But brother, one cannot treat a cancer with an aspirin. One has to strike a balance between pessimism and optimism and land somewhere around realism. Know how bad is our ailment and know how painful the treatment can be. But, if it brings out something positive in the end, then it is worth it.

I am sorry if I sounded too daunting. Never meant to demean your good effort. I just wanted your resolve to be more stronger and viable. Keep up the good work