Sawal Yeh Hai With Dr Danish 17th December 2010
- Thread starter Sawal Yeh Hai
- Start date
Dr.danish nice discussion.I like to point out one thing that majority of the maulvis are not that educated so they only tell the stuff what they had been hearing from their elders.There is so much "shirk" in our society ,hard to believe.In islam,only God almighty is the supreme power, "MOhammad' (PBUH) is our prophet and Quran is our holy book which gives us the complete right direction but then why we have so many mazars all over pakistan and people going there and instead of asking Allah ,they are telling their wishes to those dead people (saints) ,this is haram and shirk in islam but all the maulanas are silent on this subject.We criticize hindus for praying idols but did we see ourselves, even one jew pointed out on CNN about it, I was shocked to hear that even these people have the knowledge about our religion.In almost every movie in pakistan in the past,we had seen one or two songs picturised on mazars ,asking son or other wishes for their families.For God sake,just wake up and do something about it.Most of the people are illiterate in pakistan and they gather on these mazars, also go after Peer faqir for their wishes. I dont know to whom we should blame,i dont have the words.
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Dr. Danish,
One of the programme in which you seem to be in relative control of yourself without screeming etc. Hope with the passage
of time, you will be becoming more professional and less sentimental: I have few points regarding your questions and
your participants:
a) Half quotation of quranic verses by Moulvi Vali and Moulvi Thanvi Shaibs:
I am not discussing the status of "Suhaba Kiram", but half quotation and out of context and forced application of
quranic verse by these two Moulvis: they quoted only A FRACTION OF VERSE: 2:137:
فَإِنْ آمَنُوا بِمِثْلِ مَا آمَنْتُمْ بِهِ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَوْا
From this fraction, they choose the words ا آمَنْتُمْ as being applicable to Suhaba Kiram, and then they
tried to join it with a Hadith that there will be seventythree and one firqa from them who will be on
this and this...... will be in Janat and rest will be doomed. This is not fair application or quotation of Quran:
The full verse is:
فَإِنْ آمَنُوا بِمِثْلِ مَا آمَنْتُمْ بِهِ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَوْا ۖ وَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَإِنَّمَا هُمْ فِي شِقَاقٍ ۖ فَسَيَكْفِيكَهُمُ اللَّهُ ۚ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ
[SIZE=-1]And if they believe in the like of that which ye believe, then are they rightly guided. But if they turn away, then are they in schism, and Allah will suffice thee (for defence) against them. He is the Hearer, the Knower.[/SIZE]
The people here related are the "People of Scriptures" (Yahood and Christians:)
Which ye believe:
Verse No: 2: 136 (one earlier verse)
قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِنْ رَبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
[SIZE=-1]Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
WHO ARE THEY IN VERSE:2137:
it is in verse No.2:135:
[/SIZE]وَقَالُوا كُونُوا هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَىٰ تَهْتَدُوا ۗ قُلْ بَلْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا ۖ وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
[SIZE=-1]And they say: Be Jews or Christians, then ye will be rightly guided. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Nay, but (we follow) the religion of Abraham, the upright, and he was not of the idolaters.
So Dr. Danish, your question: "that nothing about that only firqa is mentioned in Quran" is absolutely right and the the answer from these Ulemas
is out of context and totally wrong. These Ulemas just picked up a sentence from the total context of verses and applied it according to their own
whims and desires: These Moulvi should ask the forgiveness of their Lord for adopting pick n choose forumula of their own choice.
b) Why there are Firqas, how they started:
Moulvi Vali described it and it is fact. They started from the murder of Usman(rzt) and then multiplied for political reasons;
c) Why we(Muslims) are divided and why we Pakistanis are divided:
This is our manufactured and basic defects. We are divided socially (in casts), our professions and specially
the menial professions have become our identity:(Once a Lohar will always for generations will be Lohar
irrespective if his generations are Soft-ware Engineers but society will label them Lohar (an example only).
To say that Society does not allow the social upward mobility to its people. We are divided in religion.
We are divided district-wise from within a province and then provincial-wise. Dr. Danish this is in
our blood stream. We are doomed and this is fact.
d) Role of Ulemas: If they will start giving the sermons of unity, then people will also become
fed up and more importantly they(Ulemas) will not earn their bread n butter. It is their profession
and the requirements of their profession compels them that make more division, therefore
market should remain stable. Moharram has just finished, (check the rates of Zaikirs and
Poets for ready references).
What is the solution: In the end of the Programme you stated that "Quran is the
authority", believe me all our problems can be solved if we sitck only to Quran, what is written
in it, is final. All rest should be screened through it. Everything will be solutioned. Otherwise
the SHOW WILL GO ON.
[/SIZE]
One of the programme in which you seem to be in relative control of yourself without screeming etc. Hope with the passage
of time, you will be becoming more professional and less sentimental: I have few points regarding your questions and
your participants:
a) Half quotation of quranic verses by Moulvi Vali and Moulvi Thanvi Shaibs:
I am not discussing the status of "Suhaba Kiram", but half quotation and out of context and forced application of
quranic verse by these two Moulvis: they quoted only A FRACTION OF VERSE: 2:137:
فَإِنْ آمَنُوا بِمِثْلِ مَا آمَنْتُمْ بِهِ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَوْا
From this fraction, they choose the words ا آمَنْتُمْ as being applicable to Suhaba Kiram, and then they
tried to join it with a Hadith that there will be seventythree and one firqa from them who will be on
this and this...... will be in Janat and rest will be doomed. This is not fair application or quotation of Quran:
The full verse is:
فَإِنْ آمَنُوا بِمِثْلِ مَا آمَنْتُمْ بِهِ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَوْا ۖ وَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَإِنَّمَا هُمْ فِي شِقَاقٍ ۖ فَسَيَكْفِيكَهُمُ اللَّهُ ۚ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ
[SIZE=-1]And if they believe in the like of that which ye believe, then are they rightly guided. But if they turn away, then are they in schism, and Allah will suffice thee (for defence) against them. He is the Hearer, the Knower.[/SIZE]
The people here related are the "People of Scriptures" (Yahood and Christians:)
Which ye believe:
Verse No: 2: 136 (one earlier verse)
قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِنْ رَبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
[SIZE=-1]Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
WHO ARE THEY IN VERSE:2137:
it is in verse No.2:135:
[/SIZE]وَقَالُوا كُونُوا هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَىٰ تَهْتَدُوا ۗ قُلْ بَلْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا ۖ وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
[SIZE=-1]And they say: Be Jews or Christians, then ye will be rightly guided. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Nay, but (we follow) the religion of Abraham, the upright, and he was not of the idolaters.
So Dr. Danish, your question: "that nothing about that only firqa is mentioned in Quran" is absolutely right and the the answer from these Ulemas
is out of context and totally wrong. These Ulemas just picked up a sentence from the total context of verses and applied it according to their own
whims and desires: These Moulvi should ask the forgiveness of their Lord for adopting pick n choose forumula of their own choice.
b) Why there are Firqas, how they started:
Moulvi Vali described it and it is fact. They started from the murder of Usman(rzt) and then multiplied for political reasons;
c) Why we(Muslims) are divided and why we Pakistanis are divided:
This is our manufactured and basic defects. We are divided socially (in casts), our professions and specially
the menial professions have become our identity:(Once a Lohar will always for generations will be Lohar
irrespective if his generations are Soft-ware Engineers but society will label them Lohar (an example only).
To say that Society does not allow the social upward mobility to its people. We are divided in religion.
We are divided district-wise from within a province and then provincial-wise. Dr. Danish this is in
our blood stream. We are doomed and this is fact.
d) Role of Ulemas: If they will start giving the sermons of unity, then people will also become
fed up and more importantly they(Ulemas) will not earn their bread n butter. It is their profession
and the requirements of their profession compels them that make more division, therefore
market should remain stable. Moharram has just finished, (check the rates of Zaikirs and
Poets for ready references).
What is the solution: In the end of the Programme you stated that "Quran is the
authority", believe me all our problems can be solved if we sitck only to Quran, what is written
in it, is final. All rest should be screened through it. Everything will be solutioned. Otherwise
the SHOW WILL GO ON.
[/SIZE]
