Habib Akram on BRT Peshawar

[Awan S]

LAHORE METRO IS JUST FOR ONE ROUTE

IF YOU MAKE BRT IN LAHORE WHICH COVERS ALL ROUTE IT COST MORE THAN 100 BILLION

AND UNFORTUNATELY THE ORANGE TRAIN PROJECT ALSO COVERS 2-3 ROUTES ONLY
NO CONNECTING ROUTES AND COSTING 200 BILL

Lahore metro total length was 27.1 km out of which 25.4 was elevated but Peshawar metro is mostly on grade which is much cheaper than elevated ones. If you search Peshawar Metro then you will see lot of corruption and poor quality work details with structural collapses as well. Its facebrook and twitter account do not tell details of projects but rather provides some video and pictures. There is a huge difference of 30 Billion and more than 80 Billion, how can anyone justify that? One 50 Billion loan was taken from Asian Bank and later on another 19.5 billion from France:
https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/20...ench-loan-to-complete-peshawar-metro-project/
I have no idea how much money was spent of provincial government's own resources.

 

[Wake Up Pakistan]

Lahore metro total length was 27.1 km out of which 25.4 was elevated but Peshawar metro is mostly on grade which is much cheaper than elevated ones. If you search Peshawar Metro then you will see lot of corruption and poor quality work details with structural collapses as well. Its facebrook and twitter account do not tell details of projects but rather provides some video and pictures. There is a huge difference of 30 Billion and more than 80 Billion, how can anyone justify that? One 50 Billion loan was taken from Asian Bank and later on another 19.5 billion from France:
https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/20...ench-loan-to-complete-peshawar-metro-project/
I have no idea how much money was spent of provincial government's own resources.

JUSTIFICATION IS PESHAWAR METRO FOR WHOLE CITY

LAHORE METRO FOR JUST 1 ROUTE OH STRUCTURAL PROBLEM AND POOR QUALITY WORK U CAN SEE IN LAHORE METRO AND PINDI METRO BUT THIS IS NOT EXCUSE WE HAVE TO IMPROVE IT

LAHORE METRO STILL COST HIGH AS $$$ WAS DOWN THAT TIME AND PETROL WAS CHEAP



NOW WHAT ABOUT LAHORE ORANGE TRAIN PLEASE TALK ABOUT THAT

 

[Shahid Abassi]

Who says project is completing on time. This project is at planning & construction stage since 2014. Cost of the project was initially estimated to be 16 billion and then soon was increased to 30 billion. A loan of 50 Billion was taken from Asian Bank which proved that project is actually 50 billion. During construction stage it was disclosed that actual cost is 70 Billion. In the end the cost is likely to be 80 Billion or higher. Don't forget Lahore metro was completed in 11 months at a cost of only 30 Billion.

'
Untrue.
In 2014 they talked about building a metro along railway track. They wrote multiple letters to the federal MLN government. It took two year talking about railway land. Present project was approved by ADB in 2017.

The cost of 16 and 30 billion was related to building a metro on railways land.

Lahore Metro did not complete in 11 months but 15 instead. Islamabad took 18 months.

Cost of Lahore metro is calculated at 1USD=100 rupees. Lahore metro did not spend 8 billion on parking plazas, they did not pay 3 billion compensation to those who were operating transport on this route prior to metro. Lahore metro is funded locally in the budget so the Punjab government was free to do dishonest accounting where a lot of expenses like sewerage etc were parked under different ministries and not counted in the project costs. And Lahore metro did not spend 3.5 billion on bicycle track. Peshawar built on USD cost, and will cost the same number of USD as projected in the start but conversion to rupees will surely show a different price now. Take an example: Multan - Sukker motorway was awarded for 3190 million USD and at that time USD was woth 100 rupees. Now the motorway still costs the same in USD but converting to rupees will show a price rise of an extra 140 billion rupees.

 

[shapik]

The whole problem was the wrong expectations set ..... specially Pervaiz khattak rushed the project through very aggressively when it wasnt required.
This not only resulted in mis management like the whole city was like under-construction at a time rather then phase while completion. All the green area's were demolished etc

The execution and communication would have been better..... ANP and PMLN have fully exploited this..... i dont think the timelines by itself were an issue.

 

[Awan S]

'
Untrue.
In 2014 they talked about building a metro along railway track. They wrote multiple letters to the federal MLN government. It took two year talking about railway land. Present project was approved by ADB in 2017.

The cost of 16 and 30 billion was related to building a metro on railways land.

Lahore Metro did not complete in 11 months but 15 instead. Islamabad took 18 months.

Cost of Lahore metro is calculated at 1USD=100 rupees. Lahore metro did not spend 8 billion on parking plazas, they did not pay 3 billion compensation to those who were operating transport on this route prior to metro. Lahore metro is funded locally in the budget so the Punjab government was free to do dishonest accounting where a lot of expenses like sewerage etc were parked under different ministries and not counted in the project costs. And Lahore metro did not spend 3.5 billion on bicycle track. Peshawar built on USD cost, and will cost the same number of USD as projected in the start but conversion to rupees will surely show a different price now. Take an example: Multan - Sukker motorway was awarded for 3190 million USD and at that time USD was woth 100 rupees. Now the motorway still costs the same in USD but converting to rupees will show a price rise of an extra 140 billion rupees.

Shahid Bhai, I am same Awan of siasat; we have discussed this matter several times before. All metros in Punjab were built by Punjab government why would federal government help them when money is given them population wise. If project was delayed sole responsibility lies of KPK government and not on federal. KPK government has taken $50 Billion from Asian Bank and $19.5 Billion (not rupees) from French authorities; this is huge money. Dollar was at 107 at the fall of Nawaz and went up to 120 at the end of previous government; it stands at 142 now. This government is partially responsible for dollar rate rise as well. There were design changes so many times and some structures fell apart due to poor quality. Buses were imported one year ahead of project opening which are standing under open sky. There are numerous corruption stories in many newspaper as well. You cannot give clean chit to KPK government or call it an ideal project as claimed several times by Insafis.

 

[Awan S]

JUSTIFICATION IS PESHAWAR METRO FOR WHOLE CITY

LAHORE METRO FOR JUST 1 ROUTE OH STRUCTURAL PROBLEM AND POOR QUALITY WORK U CAN SEE IN LAHORE METRO AND PINDI METRO BUT THIS IS NOT EXCUSE WE HAVE TO IMPROVE IT

LAHORE METRO STILL COST HIGH AS $$$ WAS DOWN THAT TIME AND PETROL WAS CHEAP



NOW WHAT ABOUT LAHORE ORANGE TRAIN PLEASE TALK ABOUT THAT

Lahore population is 12.5 million whereas Peshawar population is only 2.0 Million; you can imagine how hard it is to cover entire Lahore. Lahore is so heavily populated that journalist says that even 10 metros will not covered entire City. Lahore metro is always overflowing due to high demand. Lahore metro is east-west line and orange line north-south; I am sure orange line will also be highly successful. Luckily it will pass through my area in Lahore as well. Almost three years work was stopped on several sections by high court even then previous government completed one third and ran a test drive before the end of their government. It is up to new government now how they pace orange line; 80% of overall work was complete before the end of previous government.

 

[Wake Up Pakistan]

Lahore population is 12.5 million whereas Peshawar population is only 2.0 Million; you can imagine how hard it is to cover entire Lahore. Lahore is so heavily populated that journalist says that even 10 metros will not covered entire City. Lahore metro is always overflowing due to high demand. Lahore metro is east-west line and orange line north-south; I am sure orange line will also be highly successful. Luckily it will pass through my area in Lahore as well. Almost three years work was stopped on several sections by high court even then previous government completed one third and ran a test drive before the end of their government. It is up to new government now how they pace orange line; 80% of overall work was complete before the end of previous government.

FOR LAHORE YOU CAN PLAN SIMILAR BUS SYSTEMS LIKE BRT. YOU CAN HAVE 2 BUS MAIN ROUTES AND CONNECT OTHER ROUTERS WITH LOCAL BUSES. YOU DONT NEED TO BUILT 3-4 OR 5 METRO FOR THAT. WE CANT AFFORD IT

HONESTLY SPEAKING ORANGE TRAIN WAS NOT NEED OF TIME

ALL KACHI ABADIS ARE ON BOTH SIDE OF ORANGE TRAIN AND NOBODY CAN AFFORD TO PAY 100 RUPEES TICKET I DONT THINK IT WAS GOOD IDEA

MAY BE SIMPLE BUS ROUTE WAS MUCH BETTER IDEA

 

[Shahid Abassi]

Shahid Bhai, I am same Awan of siasat; we have discussed this matter several times before. All metros in Punjab were built by Punjab government why would federal government help them when money is given them population wise. If project was delayed sole responsibility lies of KPK government and not on federal. KPK government has taken $50 Billion from Asian Bank and $19.5 Billion (not rupees) from French authorities; this is huge money. Dollar was at 107 at the fall of Nawaz and went up to 120 at the end of previous government; it stands at 142 now. This government is partially responsible for dollar rate rise as well. There were design changes so many times and some structures fell apart due to poor quality. Buses were imported one year ahead of project opening which are standing under open sky. There are numerous corruption stories in many newspaper as well. You cannot give clean chit to KPK government or call it an ideal project as claimed several times by Insafis.

Awan bhai I know that you are our Canadian Engineer.
First of all it is not billions but millions.
The KPK government never asked for money from the federal government.
When PTI took over USD was 128 and not 120.
It is normal that prices go up when USD gets stronger against rupee.
They need 300 buses, only 26 are imported 7 months in advance.
Structural faults and small changes are a day to day problem in all projects designed by Pakistanis themselves. No corruption is proved, the recent report talks about mismanagement. And I don't give them clean chit, after all it is Pakistan.

 

[Awan S]

FOR LAHORE YOU CAN PLAN SIMILAR BUS SYSTEMS LIKE BRT. YOU CAN HAVE 2 BUS MAIN ROUTES AND CONNECT OTHER ROUTERS WITH LOCAL BUSES. YOU DONT NEED TO BUILT 3-4 OR 5 METRO FOR THAT. WE CANT AFFORD IT

HONESTLY SPEAKING ORANGE TRAIN WAS NOT NEED OF TIME

ALL KACHI ABADIS ARE ON BOTH SIDE OF ORANGE TRAIN AND NOBODY CAN AFFORD TO PAY 100 RUPEES TICKET I DONT THINK IT WAS GOOD IDEA

MAY BE SIMPLE BUS ROUTE WAS MUCH BETTER IDEA

Just buses are not solution for the City size of Lahore. It is a city of one crore and 25 lakh. I am currently living in a city which 12 Lakh only but have both metro bus and train last two years. British government started tram service which was a train before independence and you can imagine how small was Karachi that time.
Lahore metro system also have connecting buses which connect passengers from all over City. Lahore metro main lines passes through many heavily populated areas but orange train route (North-south) is even better. It starts from Lahore mint/Mughalpura then Shalimar Bagh, Engineering University, Railway Station, Macload Road, Mall Road, Chauburji, Multan Road, Tokhar Niaz Baigh and ends close to new colonies in the deep south of the CITY. Once started you will see how successful it will be because of its all important route & heavy population. This train route can serve the City for hundreds of years as our railways were built hundreds of years ago by British in 1800's. Train fare will be as much as a non profit system can afford and it will be well below than commercial buses, taxis and rickshaws. If cost is still higher then any subsidy can be granted to this system. Public transport system get subsidies all over the world. I wish someone can built such system in Karachi or restore old train system.

 

[sawan1]

ابے او گندے یوتھیو تم لوگوں کے دماغ میں بھوسا بھرا ہوا ہے جب یہ منصوبہ شروع کیا تھا کہا گیا تھا کہ یہ چھ ماہ کی ریکارڈ مدت مکمل ہو گا اب لفافہ صحافیوں سے پروگرام بنواکر عوام کو بیواقوف مت بناو [ یوتھیے ہیں ہی بیواقوف ]​

 

[Wake Up Pakistan]

Just buses are not solution for the City size of Lahore. It is a city of one crore and 25 lakh. I am currently living in a city which 12 Lakh only but have both metro bus and train last two years. British government started tram service which was a train before independence and you can imagine how small was Karachi that time.
Lahore metro system also have connecting buses which connect passengers from all over City. Lahore metro main lines passes through many heavily populated areas but orange train route (North-south) is even better. It starts from Lahore mint/Mughalpura then Shalimar Bagh, Engineering University, Railway Station, Macload Road, Mall Road, Chauburji, Multan Road, Tokhar Niaz Baigh and ends close to new colonies in the deep south of the CITY. Once started you will see how successful it will be because of its all important route & heavy population. This train route can serve the City for hundreds of years as our railways were built hundreds of years ago by British in 1800's. Train fare will be as much as a non profit system can afford and it will be well below than commercial buses, taxis and rickshaws. If cost is still higher then any subsidy can be granted to this system. Public transport system get subsidies all over the world. I wish someone can built such system in Karachi or restore old train system.

PEOPLE CANT AFFORD TO PAY HIGH FARES

ITS NOT AFFORDABLE AT THIS STAGE

U WILL SEE

 

[Awan S]

PEOPLE CANT AFFORD TO PAY HIGH FARES

ITS NOT AFFORDABLE AT THIS STAGE

U WILL SEE

If government decides to take back the train project money from public then it will be expensive but if government charge only operating cost then cost will be quite low. It will be faster than taxis & rickshaws being a separate track so middle & high class will also use it. Later on government has to issue monthly passes for daily users which will bring the cost down for daily users. It will be successful beyond your imagination; you have not seen Lahore crowd and problem of common man in transportation.

 

[Wake Up Pakistan]

If government decides to take back the train project money from public then it will be expensive but if government charge only operating cost then cost will be quite low. It will be faster than taxis & rickshaws being a separate track so middle & high class will also use it. Later on government has to issue monthly passes for daily users which will bring the cost down for daily users. It will be successful beyond your imagination; you have not seen Lahore crowd and problem of common man in transportation.

GVT. CANT AFFORD TO PAY ANY CHUNK OF COMPENSATION

FIRST EDUCATION AND AWARENESS IS MORE IMPORTANT TO USE PUBLIC TRASNPORT

ITS USELESS PROECT

MAY BE ITS NEED OF TIME BUT NOT NOW MAY BE AFTER 5 YEARS TO 10 YEARS

 

[Awan S]

'
Untrue.
In 2014 they talked about building a metro along railway track. They wrote multiple letters to the federal MLN government. It took two year talking about railway land. Present project was approved by ADB in 2017.

The cost of 16 and 30 billion was related to building a metro on railways land.

Lahore Metro did not complete in 11 months but 15 instead. Islamabad took 18 months.

Cost of Lahore metro is calculated at 1USD=100 rupees. Lahore metro did not spend 8 billion on parking plazas, they did not pay 3 billion compensation to those who were operating transport on this route prior to metro. Lahore metro is funded locally in the budget so the Punjab government was free to do dishonest accounting where a lot of expenses like sewerage etc were parked under different ministries and not counted in the project costs. And Lahore metro did not spend 3.5 billion on bicycle track. Peshawar built on USD cost, and will cost the same number of USD as projected in the start but conversion to rupees will surely show a different price now. Take an example: Multan - Sukker motorway was awarded for 3190 million USD and at that time USD was woth 100 rupees. Now the motorway still costs the same in USD but converting to rupees will show a price rise of an extra 140 billion rupees.

Shahid Bhai; please come back to other forum. Everyone is missing and calling you there.

 

[Awan S]

GVT. CANT AFFORD TO PAY ANY CHUNK OF COMPENSATION

FIRST EDUCATION AND AWARENESS IS MORE IMPORTANT TO USE PUBLIC TRASNPORT

ITS USELESS PROECT

MAY BE ITS NEED OF TIME BUT NOT NOW MAY BE AFTER 5 YEARS TO 10 YEARS

Then why PTI government built BRT in Peshawar. In fact money saved on traveling subsidized public transport can be used for health & education. May be you don't live in mega cities of Karachi & Lahore; that is why you don't understand problems of common man in daily transport pains.

 

[Wake Up Pakistan]

Then why PTI government built BRT in Peshawar. In fact money saved on traveling subsidized public transport can be used for health & education. May be you don't live in mega cities of Karachi & Lahore; that is why you don't understand problems of common man in daily transport pains.

yes they have to use money on health and education other than public transport although public transport has its own importance

regardless of that there are some projects even if they are need of hour but we have to fix our economy first before we plan big projects.

 

[Shahid Abassi]

Then why PTI government built BRT in Peshawar. In fact money saved on traveling subsidized public transport can be used for health & education. May be you don't live in mega cities of Karachi & Lahore; that is why you don't understand problems of common man in daily transport pains.

Peshawar metro is a political choice to compete with metro fever raised by MLN. I never supported this decision for Peshawar.
I have lived and visited many mega cities in the world. Nothing bad in public transport programs but when you have additional money for these. You can't borrow to build and spend rest of Pakistan's tax money to subsidize such projects. And you could still run new busses on the existing roads and facilitate the masses and save these billions on education.