Who was the bigger Traitor?

Kamran Stu

MPA (400+ posts)
Do you think Zia-ul-Haq was bad or Iftkhar Chud for Pakistan?

IffVsZia.jpg


Zia:

  • Sunk Pakistan into social and economical black hole.
  • Used name of Islam for power.
  • Brought Kalashnikov culture into Pakistan.
  • Created MQM(greatest sin).
  • In short,he destroyed all fields of Pakistan(almost).
He was what most dictators are for their respective countries, a power hogging hurdle in progressive development of the nation as a whole.

I will not go deep with my analysis as i consider what I am about to say reasonable enough to answer the question. Zia gave Pakistan three things as an everlasting legacy
  1. Nawaz Sharif and his goons ( we all know how this has turned out)
  2. By executing Bhutto he created a fake perception of injustice delivered to some great man whereas Bhutto in my opinion was a culprit , not just for some murder but for the division of an entire country due to blind personal ambition. To this day Sindh suffers , i believe that had Bhutto not been executed , PPP would have self destructed at some point. But now it just keeps on using the word Bhutto to secure term after term. Pakistanis are suckers for evident injustice or tragedies even fake ones so such a situation should have been avoided.
  3. Islamization and submission to radical Mullahs and backward clerics just essentially destroyed all liberal values and put us back in the time of Jihallah. I will not dwell further as this does not require much backing up.
Iftikhar chaudhry:

Luxury flats in London, hotels in Park Lane and gambling debts in Monte Carlo: rarely has corruption and influence-peddling in Pakistan been more embarrassingly laid bare than in the documents presented to the country's supreme court.
In page after page of official deposition, one of Pakistan's richest men cheerfully itemised how he bankrolled a playboy lifestyle for the son of the country's top judge. The young man had allegedly promised to influence his father's rulings.
According to the receipts set out in the 83-page document, the property developer Malik Riaz Hussain showered gifts and cash worth more than £2m on Arsalan Iftikhar Chaudhry, a 32-year-old businessman.


His father, the chief justice, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, has long enjoyed hero status among many Pakistanis as the freewheeling scourge of some of the country's most powerful people and institutions. Now he finds himself on the receiving end of corruption allegations, even if so far only his son is directly implicated.According to the deposition, Iftikhar promised a friend of Hussain's son-in-law that he had inside information about investigations launched by his father into Bahria Town, a private company that builds sprawling luxury housing estates for retired military officers and the wealthy elite.

"[Iftikhar could] manage to resolve the said cases in favour of Bahria Town … and on the said pretext repeatedly got favours in different shapes on one pretext of the other," Hussain's statement said.Those favours are laid out in pages of paperwork that records everything spent during three all-expenses-paid trips to London by Iftikhar and other unnamed members of the chief justice's family, in the form of receipts, airline tickets and tenancy agreements.

On the first trip, in the summer of 2010, a three-bedroom flat was rented in Portman Square for a month for £40,000, and a luxury Range Rover was hired for transport around town.The party made a four-day side-trip to Monte Carlo where Iftikhar gambled in the casino of the Hotel de Paris, losing his wealthy benefactor €10,000 (£8,800) in cash.Trips the following year included stays at a luxury hotel and a flat off Park Lane costing £4,000 a week.

During a chaotic press conference held after the court hearing, Hussain said the chief justice had been warned of his son's activities more than six months previously, but nothing was done. He warned of more revelations to follow.
"I'll disclose things that will make people realise what's happening in Pakistan," said Hussain. "The president tried to stop me going with this. No one except Allah is with me." In his affidavit, Hussain said he had been "blackmailed" by the chief justice's son, and said he had not made his revelations at the behest of either the ruling party or the army, both of which might have cause to damage the judge. Arsalan has denied the allegations.


Among other recent cases, Chaudhry has tried to force the prime minister, Yusuf Raza Gilani, to revisit dormant corruption allegations against the president, Asif Ali Zardari, and humiliated the all-powerful Inter-Services Intelligence military spy agency over election-rigging charges. The chief justice's office prevents him making statements outside court, meaning he has struggled to disassociate himself from the claims against his son. Initially he presided over the case himself, during which he swore on the Qur'an that he had no knowledge of his son's business affairs. However, he later stepped down after complaints of a conflict of interest.

The case has focused unprecedented attention on Hussain, a powerful multimillionaire said to be the 12th richest man in Pakistan, who rose from humble origins to control a vast property empire favoured by the military and who now travels around the world in a private jet emblazoned with the name Bahria Town 001.

In a country where public services either do not exist or are in a state of collapse, luxury developments that boast private fire services and manicured lawns are in demand from those who can afford to pay. There are Bahria developments in Rawalpindi, Islamabad and Lahore, the latter based on a replica of Trafalgar Square complete with a Nelson's Column.
One of Pakistan's anti-corruption bodies is investigating claims that much of the land on which Bahria Town was built was illegally "grabbed" and sold on for vast profit.


The court deposition suggests Hussain was disappointed that he failed to get rid of his legal problems through his largesse towards the chief justice's son. "I did not get any relief whatsoever in the [cases] pending before this august court, contrary to the assurances and promises made by [Iftikhar]," he said.

Source
 
Last edited by a moderator:

uzairm

Senator (1k+ posts)
All of Zia's negative points can be categorized under "wrong policy for the right reason" with limited or no personal gains
Iftikhar Chaudhary on the other hand had personal gains behind every decision. All his negative points were intentional
 

kakamana

Minister (2k+ posts)
What happened to Arslan Iftikhar's CASE ???????????????????????
Saqib Nisaar you must reopen that case at this point....
same the way a uniform guy save a** of other peti band bhai exactly in same manner these judges of apex courts look after each other
 

mubarik Shah

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
same the way a uniform guy save a** of other peti band bhai exactly in same manner these judges of apex courts look after each other

Then this SOB is in no position to defend NS !!!!!!!!!!!
If he thinks NS is wrongly accused … why he is not filing a petition in SC ??????????
 

kakamana

Minister (2k+ posts)
Then this SOB is in no position to defend NS !!!!!!!!!!!
If he thinks NS is wrongly accused … why he is not filing a petition in SC ??????????
after #Gulalai yabli, then #Reham chawli, then this ex CJ ki ungli who else left Gen. Kiyani? usko b bula lo
 

AntiGossip

Senator (1k+ posts)
Then this SOB is in no position to defend NS !!!!!!!!!!!
If he thinks NS is wrongly accused … why he is not filing a petition in SC ??????????
Well I am aware of not helping a brother in need in Pakistan is simple reasoning of the failure to live up to word of mouth, where please have mercy on me! do not touch me syndrome ! I didn't do it ! a basically thief mentality of masses where all concerned who don't particapate are guilty by verdict.
 

Londonguy

Senator (1k+ posts)
A traitor is a traitor.................. What are we arguing about now

Is there a degree of treason that is acceptable ??

Bigger Smaller

Is ther another option

Good traitor Bad Traitor Unsure Inbeteen roundaboout traitor......
 

HSiddiqui

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Do you think Zia-ul-Haq was bad or Iftkhar Chud for Pakistan?
IffVsZia.jpg


Zia:
  • Sunk Pakistan into social and economical black hole.
  • Used name of Islam for power.
  • Brought Kalashnikov culture into Pakistan.
  • Created MQM(greatest sin).
  • In short,he destroyed all fields of Pakistan(almost).
He was what most dictators are for their respective countries, a power hogging hurdle in progressive development of the nation as a whole.
I will not go deep with my analysis as i consider what I am about to say reasonable enough to answer the question. Zia gave Pakistan three things as an everlasting legacy

  1. Nawaz Sharif and his goons ( we all know how this has turned out)
  2. By executing Bhutto he created a fake perception of injustice delivered to some great man whereas Bhutto in my opinion was a culprit , not just for some murder but for the division of an entire country due to blind personal ambition. To this day Sindh suffers , i believe that had Bhutto not been executed , PPP would have self destructed at some point. But now it just keeps on using the word Bhutto to secure term after term. Pakistanis are suckers for evident injustice or tragedies even fake ones so such a situation should have been avoided.
  3. Islamization and submission to radical Mullahs and backward clerics just essentially destroyed all liberal values and put us back in the time of Jihallah. I will not dwell further as this does not require much backing up.

Iftikhar chaudhry:
Luxury flats in London, hotels in Park Lane and gambling debts in Monte Carlo: rarely has corruption and influence-peddling in Pakistan been more embarrassingly laid bare than in the documents presented to the country's supreme court.
In page after page of official deposition, one of Pakistan's richest men cheerfully itemised how he bankrolled a playboy lifestyle for the son of the country's top judge. The young man had allegedly promised to influence his father's rulings.
According to the receipts set out in the 83-page document, the property developer Malik Riaz Hussain showered gifts and cash worth more than £2m on Arsalan Iftikhar Chaudhry, a 32-year-old businessman.
His father, the chief justice, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, has long enjoyed hero status among many Pakistanis as the freewheeling scourge of some of the country's most powerful people and institutions. Now he finds himself on the receiving end of corruption allegations, even if so far only his son is directly implicated.
According to the deposition, Iftikhar promised a friend of Hussain's son-in-law that he had inside information about investigations launched by his father into Bahria Town, a private company that builds sprawling luxury housing estates for retired military officers and the wealthy elite.
"[Iftikhar could] manage to resolve the said cases in favour of Bahria Town … and on the said pretext repeatedly got favours in different shapes on one pretext of the other," Hussain's statement said.
Those favours are laid out in pages of paperwork that records everything spent during three all-expenses-paid trips to London by Iftikhar and other unnamed members of the chief justice's family, in the form of receipts, airline tickets and tenancy agreements.
On the first trip, in the summer of 2010, a three-bedroom flat was rented in Portman Square for a month for £40,000, and a luxury Range Rover was hired for transport around town.
The party made a four-day side-trip to Monte Carlo where Iftikhar gambled in the casino of the Hotel de Paris, losing his wealthy benefactor €10,000 (£8,800) in cash.
Trips the following year included stays at a luxury hotel and a flat off Park Lane costing £4,000 a week.
During a chaotic press conference held after the court hearing, Hussain said the chief justice had been warned of his son's activities more than six months previously, but nothing was done. He warned of more revelations to follow.
"I'll disclose things that will make people realise what's happening in Pakistan," said Hussain. "The president tried to stop me going with this. No one except Allah is with me." In his affidavit, Hussain said he had been "blackmailed" by the chief justice's son, and said he had not made his revelations at the behest of either the ruling party or the army, both of which might have cause to damage the judge. Arsalan has denied the allegations.
Among other recent cases, Chaudhry has tried to force the prime minister, Yusuf Raza Gilani, to revisit dormant corruption allegations against the president, Asif Ali Zardari, and humiliated the all-powerful Inter-Services Intelligence military spy agency over election-rigging charges. The chief justice's office prevents him making statements outside court, meaning he has struggled to disassociate himself from the claims against his son. Initially he presided over the case himself, during which he swore on the Qur'an that he had no knowledge of his son's business affairs. However, he later stepped down after complaints of a conflict of interest.
The case has focused unprecedented attention on Hussain, a powerful multimillionaire said to be the 12th richest man in Pakistan, who rose from humble origins to control a vast property empire favoured by the military and who now travels around the world in a private jet emblazoned with the name Bahria Town 001.
In a country where public services either do not exist or are in a state of collapse, luxury developments that boast private fire services and manicured lawns are in demand from those who can afford to pay. There are Bahria developments in Rawalpindi, Islamabad and Lahore, the latter based on a replica of Trafalgar Square complete with a Nelson's Column.
One of Pakistan's anti-corruption bodies is investigating claims that much of the land on which Bahria Town was built was illegally "grabbed" and sold on for vast profit.
The court deposition suggests Hussain was disappointed that he failed to get rid of his legal problems through his largesse towards the chief justice's son. "I did not get any relief whatsoever in the [cases] pending before this august court, contrary to the assurances and promises made by [Iftikhar]," he said.


Source
The biggest traitor is NAWAZ SHARIF, Iftikhar Chaudhary was a fraud and cheater, I will never call Zia Ul Haque a traitor, he might have taken some wrong decisions but he do not deserve to be called a Traitor. This is my personal opinion
 

AntiGossip

Senator (1k+ posts)
A traitor is a traitor.................. What are we arguing about now

Is there a degree of treason that is acceptable ??

Bigger Smaller

Is ther another option

Good traitor Bad Traitor Unsure Inbeteen roundaboout traitor......
I am in agreement with you.
However last I heard he the one corrupt individual (has a legacy of ) or multiply by factor of 200 oops 220 million followers of voters OR EVEN A FRACTION of his support are enough to SINK the whole country ALONE ??? maybe no definetely !
 

bhutt-dari

Senator (1k+ posts)
Do you think Zia-ul-Haq was bad or Iftkhar Chud for Pakistan?
IffVsZia.jpg


Zia:
  • Sunk Pakistan into social and economical black hole.
  • Used name of Islam for power.
  • Brought Kalashnikov culture into Pakistan.
  • Created MQM(greatest sin).
  • In short,he destroyed all fields of Pakistan(almost).
He was what most dictators are for their respective countries, a power hogging hurdle in progressive development of the nation as a whole.
I will not go deep with my analysis as i consider what I am about to say reasonable enough to answer the question. Zia gave Pakistan three things as an everlasting legacy

  1. Nawaz Sharif and his goons ( we all know how this has turned out)
  2. By executing Bhutto he created a fake perception of injustice delivered to some great man whereas Bhutto in my opinion was a culprit , not just for some murder but for the division of an entire country due to blind personal ambition. To this day Sindh suffers , i believe that had Bhutto not been executed , PPP would have self destructed at some point. But now it just keeps on using the word Bhutto to secure term after term. Pakistanis are suckers for evident injustice or tragedies even fake ones so such a situation should have been avoided.
  3. Islamization and submission to radical Mullahs and backward clerics just essentially destroyed all liberal values and put us back in the time of Jihallah. I will not dwell further as this does not require much backing up.

Iftikhar chaudhry:
Luxury flats in London, hotels in Park Lane and gambling debts in Monte Carlo: rarely has corruption and influence-peddling in Pakistan been more embarrassingly laid bare than in the documents presented to the country's supreme court.
In page after page of official deposition, one of Pakistan's richest men cheerfully itemised how he bankrolled a playboy lifestyle for the son of the country's top judge. The young man had allegedly promised to influence his father's rulings.
According to the receipts set out in the 83-page document, the property developer Malik Riaz Hussain showered gifts and cash worth more than £2m on Arsalan Iftikhar Chaudhry, a 32-year-old businessman.
His father, the chief justice, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, has long enjoyed hero status among many Pakistanis as the freewheeling scourge of some of the country's most powerful people and institutions. Now he finds himself on the receiving end of corruption allegations, even if so far only his son is directly implicated.
According to the deposition, Iftikhar promised a friend of Hussain's son-in-law that he had inside information about investigations launched by his father into Bahria Town, a private company that builds sprawling luxury housing estates for retired military officers and the wealthy elite.
"[Iftikhar could] manage to resolve the said cases in favour of Bahria Town … and on the said pretext repeatedly got favours in different shapes on one pretext of the other," Hussain's statement said.
Those favours are laid out in pages of paperwork that records everything spent during three all-expenses-paid trips to London by Iftikhar and other unnamed members of the chief justice's family, in the form of receipts, airline tickets and tenancy agreements.
On the first trip, in the summer of 2010, a three-bedroom flat was rented in Portman Square for a month for £40,000, and a luxury Range Rover was hired for transport around town.
The party made a four-day side-trip to Monte Carlo where Iftikhar gambled in the casino of the Hotel de Paris, losing his wealthy benefactor €10,000 (£8,800) in cash.
Trips the following year included stays at a luxury hotel and a flat off Park Lane costing £4,000 a week.
During a chaotic press conference held after the court hearing, Hussain said the chief justice had been warned of his son's activities more than six months previously, but nothing was done. He warned of more revelations to follow.
"I'll disclose things that will make people realise what's happening in Pakistan," said Hussain. "The president tried to stop me going with this. No one except Allah is with me." In his affidavit, Hussain said he had been "blackmailed" by the chief justice's son, and said he had not made his revelations at the behest of either the ruling party or the army, both of which might have cause to damage the judge. Arsalan has denied the allegations.
Among other recent cases, Chaudhry has tried to force the prime minister, Yusuf Raza Gilani, to revisit dormant corruption allegations against the president, Asif Ali Zardari, and humiliated the all-powerful Inter-Services Intelligence military spy agency over election-rigging charges. The chief justice's office prevents him making statements outside court, meaning he has struggled to disassociate himself from the claims against his son. Initially he presided over the case himself, during which he swore on the Qur'an that he had no knowledge of his son's business affairs. However, he later stepped down after complaints of a conflict of interest.
The case has focused unprecedented attention on Hussain, a powerful multimillionaire said to be the 12th richest man in Pakistan, who rose from humble origins to control a vast property empire favoured by the military and who now travels around the world in a private jet emblazoned with the name Bahria Town 001.
In a country where public services either do not exist or are in a state of collapse, luxury developments that boast private fire services and manicured lawns are in demand from those who can afford to pay. There are Bahria developments in Rawalpindi, Islamabad and Lahore, the latter based on a replica of Trafalgar Square complete with a Nelson's Column.
One of Pakistan's anti-corruption bodies is investigating claims that much of the land on which Bahria Town was built was illegally "grabbed" and sold on for vast profit.
The court deposition suggests Hussain was disappointed that he failed to get rid of his legal problems through his largesse towards the chief justice's son. "I did not get any relief whatsoever in the [cases] pending before this august court, contrary to the assurances and promises made by [Iftikhar]," he said.


Source
totally wrong to misguide the people:

Do you think Zia-ul-Haq was bad or Iftkhar Chud for Pakistan?
IffVsZia.jpg


Zia:
  • Sunk Pakistan into social and economical black hole.
  • Used name of Islam for power.
  • Brought Kalashnikov culture into Pakistan.
  • Created MQM(greatest sin).
  • In short,he destroyed all fields of Pakistan(almost).
He was what most dictators are for their respective countries, a power hogging hurdle in progressive development of the nation as a whole.
I will not go deep with my analysis as i consider what I am about to say reasonable enough to answer the question. Zia gave Pakistan three things as an everlasting legacy

  1. Nawaz Sharif and his goons ( we all know how this has turned out)
  2. By executing Bhutto he created a fake perception of injustice delivered to some great man whereas Bhutto in my opinion was a culprit , not just for some murder but for the division of an entire country due to blind personal ambition. To this day Sindh suffers , i believe that had Bhutto not been executed , PPP would have self destructed at some point. But now it just keeps on using the word Bhutto to secure term after term. Pakistanis are suckers for evident injustice or tragedies even fake ones so such a situation should have been avoided.
  3. Islamization and submission to radical Mullahs and backward clerics just essentially destroyed all liberal values and put us back in the time of Jihallah. I will not dwell further as this does not require much backing up.

Iftikhar chaudhry:
Luxury flats in London, hotels in Park Lane and gambling debts in Monte Carlo: rarely has corruption and influence-peddling in Pakistan been more embarrassingly laid bare than in the documents presented to the country's supreme court.
In page after page of official deposition, one of Pakistan's richest men cheerfully itemised how he bankrolled a playboy lifestyle for the son of the country's top judge. The young man had allegedly promised to influence his father's rulings.
According to the receipts set out in the 83-page document, the property developer Malik Riaz Hussain showered gifts and cash worth more than £2m on Arsalan Iftikhar Chaudhry, a 32-year-old businessman.
His father, the chief justice, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, has long enjoyed hero status among many Pakistanis as the freewheeling scourge of some of the country's most powerful people and institutions. Now he finds himself on the receiving end of corruption allegations, even if so far only his son is directly implicated.
According to the deposition, Iftikhar promised a friend of Hussain's son-in-law that he had inside information about investigations launched by his father into Bahria Town, a private company that builds sprawling luxury housing estates for retired military officers and the wealthy elite.
"[Iftikhar could] manage to resolve the said cases in favour of Bahria Town … and on the said pretext repeatedly got favours in different shapes on one pretext of the other," Hussain's statement said.
Those favours are laid out in pages of paperwork that records everything spent during three all-expenses-paid trips to London by Iftikhar and other unnamed members of the chief justice's family, in the form of receipts, airline tickets and tenancy agreements.
On the first trip, in the summer of 2010, a three-bedroom flat was rented in Portman Square for a month for £40,000, and a luxury Range Rover was hired for transport around town.
The party made a four-day side-trip to Monte Carlo where Iftikhar gambled in the casino of the Hotel de Paris, losing his wealthy benefactor €10,000 (£8,800) in cash.
Trips the following year included stays at a luxury hotel and a flat off Park Lane costing £4,000 a week.
During a chaotic press conference held after the court hearing, Hussain said the chief justice had been warned of his son's activities more than six months previously, but nothing was done. He warned of more revelations to follow.
"I'll disclose things that will make people realise what's happening in Pakistan," said Hussain. "The president tried to stop me going with this. No one except Allah is with me." In his affidavit, Hussain said he had been "blackmailed" by the chief justice's son, and said he had not made his revelations at the behest of either the ruling party or the army, both of which might have cause to damage the judge. Arsalan has denied the allegations.
Among other recent cases, Chaudhry has tried to force the prime minister, Yusuf Raza Gilani, to revisit dormant corruption allegations against the president, Asif Ali Zardari, and humiliated the all-powerful Inter-Services Intelligence military spy agency over election-rigging charges. The chief justice's office prevents him making statements outside court, meaning he has struggled to disassociate himself from the claims against his son. Initially he presided over the case himself, during which he swore on the Qur'an that he had no knowledge of his son's business affairs. However, he later stepped down after complaints of a conflict of interest.
The case has focused unprecedented attention on Hussain, a powerful multimillionaire said to be the 12th richest man in Pakistan, who rose from humble origins to control a vast property empire favoured by the military and who now travels around the world in a private jet emblazoned with the name Bahria Town 001.
In a country where public services either do not exist or are in a state of collapse, luxury developments that boast private fire services and manicured lawns are in demand from those who can afford to pay. There are Bahria developments in Rawalpindi, Islamabad and Lahore, the latter based on a replica of Trafalgar Square complete with a Nelson's Column.
One of Pakistan's anti-corruption bodies is investigating claims that much of the land on which Bahria Town was built was illegally "grabbed" and sold on for vast profit.
The court deposition suggests Hussain was disappointed that he failed to get rid of his legal problems through his largesse towards the chief justice's son. "I did not get any relief whatsoever in the [cases] pending before this august court, contrary to the assurances and promises made by [Iftikhar]," he said.


Source
totally wrong information to misquide the youth and people as follow:

Zia:
  • Sunk Pakistan into social and economical black hole. HE DID NOT SINK, IT WAS BHUTTO'S POLICIES WHICH SUNK PAKISTAN.
  • Used name of Islam for power. HE DID NOT USE THE NAME OF ISLAM, BUT ACTUALLY GOT MANY ISLAMIC RULES IMPLEMENTED SUCH AS BANNING ALCOHOL, START OF SALAT IN ALL THE PLACES ETC ETC. MADE ZAKAT SYSTEM.
  • Brought Kalashnikov culture into Pakistan. KALASHINKOV WAS NOT BROUGHT BY HIM, PEOPLE SMUGGLED MOST OF THESE IN PAKISTAN.
  • Created MQM(greatest sin). HE DID NOT CREATE MQM, MQM WAS CREATED WHEN BHUTTO STARTED REVENGE AGAINST URDU SPEAKING PEOPLE, AND REMOVED THEM FROM JOBS AND FILLED ILLETRATE SINDHIS.
  • In short,he destroyed all fields of Pakistan(almost). PAKISTAN WAS DESTROYED AS A RESULT OF ALL OUT NATIONALIATION, AND APPOINTED HIS PEOPLAAS ON ALL THE TOP POST TO GRAB THE MONEY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
 

AntiGossip

Senator (1k+ posts)
Zia was the true leader of old school with insight, vision, aims, tactics to strategy what do these morans have besides corrupted ethics? eh???
 

Syedzada

Voter (50+ posts)
What BS is this?? Don’t you know that Punjabis can never be traitors... this word is only reserved for Balochs, mahajirs, Sindhis, bengalis, etc