What are things which are Fardh in Islam ?

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
If you read 2nd hadith. It clearly says as long as they say their prayers. i.e. if they are muslims you can't take up arms against them. But can use other means to overthrow them via election or revolution (like Egypt. )

It says if they pray which means if they pray and don't do anything else or they do Haram still they will be valid ? did I understood clearly what you are saying ? and does Islam allows election because if majority of people will say that gay marriages should be allowed then in Islam it should be allowed, right ? because what you are saying is partly and conditionally true and if few more conditions are applied will that statement still be valid ? As Quran supersede Hadith ! don't you think so and one more thing are you a qualified Mufti brother ?
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Allah ne insaan par apni taraf se apne liye kuchh bhi farz nahin kiya. jo kuchh bhi kaha insaan ke faaide ke liye kaha.

albata insaan ko peda karne ka maqsad Allah ne quran main saaf saaf bataa diya hai aur woh hai maarfate khudawandi.

The main thing we need to realise is that islam is deen not mazhab,

1)slaah is about establishing social or community network (this is affirmed daily as namaaz for self reminding of the covenant with Allah, which is we will live by your rule according to your program in an organised way and Allah promised that if you will do that then I will establish you in the world through following of my program)

2)sowm is all about abstaining from inflicting harm and destruction upon each other (symbolised in form of fasting that we will not even eat and drink till we have managed to bring all conflicts to an end in human society.

3) zakaah is about getting rid of all ills from within society and setting up society on course to progress and prosperity in an organised way.

4)hajj is all about struggle for establishing an islamic state in an organised way. (visiting of kaba is symbolic for marching towards establishing a capital for islamic state.

so islam today is mere ritualism and nothing more and even ritualism is so much fought over that it is turning into a dangerous activity or absurdity and a joke.

Time for ummah to stop and think what it is doing and where it is leading it.



http://archive.org/details/EnglishTranslationOfTheQuran

https://archive.org/details/KiaInsaniyatNeQuranSeIslamKoTheekTarahSeSamjhaHai
 

Rommel

Senator (1k+ posts)
My advice..
Please read the Quran (Translation) in detail and you will know, what is Farz in Islam.

Some members here will start preaching there own factions and beliefs, which will only confuse you.
 

Irobot

Senator (1k+ posts)
It says if they pray which means if they pray and don't do anything else or they do Haram still they will be valid ? did I understood clearly what you are saying ? and does Islam allows election because if majority of people will say that gay marriages should be allowed then in Islam it should be allowed, right ? because what you are saying is partly and conditionally true and if few more conditions are applied will that statement still be valid ? As Quran supersede Hadith ! don't you think so and one more thing are you a qualified Mufti brother ?

Ok this is what i understood from those and other hadiths.
Now what did you conclude from those hadiths. Can you also share your knowledge.
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Ok this is what i understood from those and other hadiths.
Now what did you conclude from those hadiths. Can you also share your knowledge.

I don't have that much knowledge to issue Fatwa as I am still trying to learn Islam as it is great ocean of Hikma & Law, my understanding is ; Quran is the most Important source of Law and it has to be read in accordance with Hadith and while doing so a person has to ensure that his/her personal bias and prejudice is not involved.

There are certain things which Allah asks Muslims to do and there are certain things which Muslims must not do.

Anyone who is ruler in Islam has to be a practicing Muslim and if he is not then he can't be Muslim ruler, if above Hadith which you quoted is to be taken without Quran then Hazrat Hussain :razi:was wrong and if with Quran then he was right, I think if ruler is going against Quran & Sunnah then Muslims have to take action and do what they told Hazrat Omer :razi: and that is that we have the sword and he said that it is correct way and I think he must have understood Islam better then all the people who are currently living.

If a person is living in Muslim dominated area then it is obligatory to establish Deen otherwise they will be acting against the will of Allah and establishment of Deen will be Fardh.

If a Muslim believes in everything which Islam says is Fardh and doesn't believe in one thing i.e Hajj. Will other Ibadah be accepted by Allah ? Answer is "No" you have to embrace Islam as a package and you can't accept things which are only convenient and say that other things are not ?

Islam is not supposed to be easy way if Deen is Maghloob, Islam is easy when Deen is fully established.

Reason I asked the question "What are things which are Fardh is Islam ?" was to ensure that people are thinking and wondering why are Muslims and Pakistanis in particular are having so many difficulties.
 

Irobot

Senator (1k+ posts)
I don't have that much knowledge to issue Fatwa as I am still trying to learn Islam as it is great ocean of Hikma & Law, my understanding is ; Quran is the most Important source of Law and it has to be read in accordance with Hadith and while doing so a person has to ensure that his/her personal bias and prejudice is not involved.

There are certain things which Allah asks Muslims to do and there are certain things which Muslims must not do.

Anyone who is ruler in Islam has to be a practicing Muslim and if he is not then he can't be Muslim ruler, if above Hadith which you quoted is to be taken without Quran then Hazrat Hussain :razi:was wrong and if with Quran then he was right, I think if ruler is going against Quran & Sunnah then Muslims have to take action and do what they told Hazrat Omer :razi: and that is that we have the sword and he said that it is correct way and I think he must have understood Islam better then all the people who are currently living.

If a person is living in Muslim dominated area then it is obligatory to establish Deen otherwise they will be acting against the will of Allah and establishment of Deen will be Fardh.

If a Muslim believes in everything which Islam says is Fardh and doesn't believe in one thing i.e Hajj. Will other Ibadah be accepted by Allah ? Answer is "No" you have to embrace Islam as a package and you can't accept things which are only convenient and say that other things are not ?

Islam is not supposed to be easy way if Deen is Maghloob, Islam is easy when Deen is fully established.

Reason I asked the question "What are things which are Fardh is Islam ?" was to ensure that people are thinking and wondering why are Muslims and Pakistanis in particular are having so many difficulties.

Plz provide Quranic verses which state to overthrow a corrupt muslim ruler by arms.
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Plz provide Quranic verses which state to overthrow a corrupt muslim ruler by arms.

I can provide Quranic verses which will tell you what is allowed and what is not, if Allah has declared war with Riba should Muslim ruler support it ? If yes then you should not overthrow government and if no then we should. If Allah has declared war should we also not declare war against the same if not then you are supporting it and Allah is still at war ? think about it, don't oppose my point of view just for the sake of opposition always remember that Quran is above Sunnah.
 

Irobot

Senator (1k+ posts)
I can provide Quranic verses which will tell you what is allowed and what is not, if Allah has declared war with Riba should Muslim ruler support it ? If yes then you should not overthrow government and if no then we should. If Allah has declared war should we also not declare war against the same if not then you are supporting it and Allah is still at war ? think about it, don't oppose my point of view just for the sake of opposition always remember that Quran is above Sunnah.

Every muslim knows quran is above hadith. you don't need to quote again and again.

I have read these verses about riba where ALLAH has declared war against people who take riba. But are you a mufti which can give fatwa about these verses that every muslim should take up arms against those government which take riba. Since ALLAH did not give direct orders to common muslims to take arms against those who take ribe.

similarly read these verses.

AUR TUM SAB KE SAB
ALLAH KI RASSI (QURAN) KO MAZBOOTI SE THAM LO AUR BIKHAR NA JAO” (Surah Aale Imran, Ayat 103)

Does this not mean to be together and not take arms against fellow muslims?

One more thing. Authentic Hadiths normally don't contradict Quran. Let alone so many hadith of same subject.
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Every muslim knows quran is above hadith. you don't need to quote again and again.

I have read these verses about riba where ALLAH has declared war against people who take riba. But are you a mufti which can give fatwa about these verses that every muslim should take up arms against those government which take riba. Since ALLAH did not give direct orders to common muslims to take arms against those who take ribe.

similarly read these verses.

AUR TUM SAB KE SAB
ALLAH KI RASSI (QURAN) KO MAZBOOTI SE THAM LO AUR BIKHAR NA JAO” (Surah Aale Imran, Ayat 103)

Does this not mean to be together and not take arms against fellow muslims?

One more thing. Authentic Hadiths normally don't contradict Quran. Let alone so many hadith of same subject.

Do you know about Masjid Zarar ? Do you know about Hazrat Abu Bakar :razi: declared Jihad against Mukar-e-zakat, so he shouldn't have done it as they use to pray ? I agree that authentic hadith don't contrdict Quran, just as Quran can't be read in isolation, hadith cannot be read in isolation it has to be read totally and only one hadith can't define everything do you agree with that !!
 

Irobot

Senator (1k+ posts)
Do you know about Masjid Zarar ? Do you know about Hazrat Abu Bakar :razi: declared Jihad against Mukar-e-zakat, so he shouldn't have done it as they use to pray ? I agree that authentic hadith don't contrdict Quran, just as Quran can't be read in isolation, hadith cannot be read in isolation it has to be read totally and only one hadith can't define everything do you agree with that !!

demolition of masjid Zarar was ordered by head of state Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).
Jihad against Mukar-e-Zakat was also declared by head of state hazarat Abu Bakar :razi:.

And there is not only one hadith. There are many.
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
demolition of masjid Zarar was ordered by head of state Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).
Jihad against Mukar-e-Zakat was also declared by head of state hazarat Abu Bakar :razi:.

And there is not only one hadith. There are many.

So if ruler is conducting wrong things why can't people use force, I think this is invention just to ensure that rulers can commit wrongdoings against Islam & Muslims and no one should say and do anything.

Read Quran and Hadith in total and in conjunction with each other not in isolation.
 

Irobot

Senator (1k+ posts)
So if ruler is conducting wrong things why can't people use force, I think this is invention just to ensure that rulers can commit wrongdoings against Islam & Muslims and no one should say and do anything.

Read Quran and Hadith in total and in conjunction with each other not in isolation.

that is why i asked u to show me some verses of quran which say to take up arms against corrupt muslim rulers.
i have quoted hadith here. If you quote quran on this subject then i will follow u.
If one cant find any quranic verses then he has to rely on authantic hadith.
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
that is why i asked u to show me some verses of quran which say to take up arms against corrupt muslim rulers.
i have quoted hadith here. If you quote quran on this subject then i will follow u.
If one cant find any quranic verses then he has to rely on authantic hadith.

If you can't find anything which has to be followed then Hadith and then Ijma, what are things which are haram in Quran? Isn't riba haram in Quran ? if ruler is saying it is halal or if they are imposing it then I won't follow the rule you can do it as I will be asked about my beliefs and you will be asked about yours, if prayer was a criteria for not going against ruler the why did Hazrat Hussain :razi: went against Yazid ? Yazid never went against five fundamentals and was not stopping anyone to offer prayer or did he ? so as per your logic and understanding Hazrat Hussain :razi: was wrong and as per my understanding he was right.

Alwasys remember you can plead ignorance that you didn't knew what is allowed in Islam and what is not in front of Allah if something is given in Quran and ruler is taking everyone against it then Muslims have to stop him or her as he can lead to big disaster, if ruler is allowing Zina, Riba and you are saying that you still have to follow the ruler then you need to be very sure what you are saying.

No one can allow what Allah has disallowed even a ruler.
 

Irobot

Senator (1k+ posts)
If you can't find anything which has to be followed then Hadith and then Ijma, what are things which are haram in Quran? Isn't riba haram in Quran ? if ruler is saying it is halal or if they are imposing it then I won't follow the rule you can do it as I will be asked about my beliefs and you will be asked about yours, if prayer was a criteria for not going against ruler the why did Hazrat Hussain :razi: went against Yazid ? Yazid never went against five fundamentals and was not stopping anyone to offer prayer or did he ? so as per your logic and understanding Hazrat Hussain :razi: was wrong and as per my understanding he was right.

Alwasys remember you can plead ignorance that you didn't knew what is allowed in Islam and what is not in front of Allah if something is given in Quran and ruler is taking everyone against it then Muslims have to stop him or her as he can lead to big disaster, if ruler is allowing Zina, Riba and you are saying that you still have to follow the ruler then you need to be very sure what you are saying.

No one can allow what Allah has disallowed even a ruler.

You either follow Quran and hadith or make your own rules.
I simply asked you to provide verses of Quran where it allows to take arms against muslim rulers. If not then you have to follow hadith where it is completely forbidden.

Hazarat Hussain R.A. did not went for arms confrontation with yazid forces. He was going to qoofa because they called him by thousands of letters. He even offered to go to third country or to borders for jihad if people of qoofa are disowning these letters. But it was hurr who wanted to murder Hazarat Hussain in any case.
Any way when we have Quran and Hadith then this example does not count. As the rule is to follow quran and then hadith.
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
You either follow Quran and hadith or make your own rules.
I simply asked you to provide verses of Quran where it allows to take arms against muslim rulers. If not then you have to follow hadith where it is completely forbidden.

Hazarat Hussain R.A. did not went for arms confrontation with yazid forces. He was going to qoofa because they called him by thousands of letters. He even offered to go to third country or to borders for jihad if people of qoofa are disowning these letters. But it was hurr who wanted to murder Hazarat Hussain in any case.
Any way when we have Quran and Hadith then this example does not count. As the rule is to follow quran and then hadith.


I would recommend that you listen to below lecture may be it will help, I agree that first Quran has to be followed and then Hadith and interpretation of Quran will be done with the help of Hadith. Ok, you are saying that person can do kharooj based on letters and not on Quran and Hadith? Hazrat Hussain :razi: went against ruler because he knew that Deen (Political system in his case) was under threat rother I think you are lost in interpretation of convenience to understand it better I would recommend you to listen to below lectures without prejudice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzMeQD2mhgI&list=PLA98513DC4C4C1F38
 

Irobot

Senator (1k+ posts)
I would recommend that you listen to below lecture may be it will help, I agree that first Quran has to be followed and then Hadith and interpretation of Quran will be done with the help of Hadith. Ok, you are saying that person can do kharooj based on letters and not on Quran and Hadith? Hazrat Hussain :razi: went against ruler because he knew that Deen (Political system in his case) was under threat rother I think you are lost in interpretation of convenience to understand it better I would recommend you to listen to below lectures without prejudice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzMeQD2mhgI&list=PLA98513DC4C4C1F38


Ok that is a long conferance. Will take time to listen.
You agree that quran, Hadith and ijtihad are rules but dont wont to follow them.

Even in days of yaseed and other rulers muslims got victories and islam spread.
But when u r fighting with each other how can u send message of islam to others.
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Ok that is a long conferance. Will take time to listen.
You agree that quran, Hadith and ijtihad are rules but dont wont to follow them.

Even in days of yaseed and other rulers muslims got victories and islam spread.
But when u r fighting with each other how can u send message of islam to others.

I told you at the first place that Quran is supreme kindly follow my previous writing, if Islam is spreading and if Islam is implemented in true form then show me a piece of land where you can show me Islam Shariya ? What you are saying is exactly what Satan wants you to believe that Islam doesn't require any help, regarding Muslim territory being expanded it was expending at the time when Akbar (Moghul king) inventor of Deen Illahi was king does that prove that Deen Illahi was right ? I sincerely think we should try to stick to Quran and Sunnah and we should not see it in isolation, Quran can't tell you how many Rakkats of Prayer is to be offered without Sunnah which means that you have to read both in conjunction.

Regarding fighting Muslims can't unite and differences in practice will always remain, I think problem happens when a person stop calling spade a spade and accepts the status quo.

Islam is still the fastest growing religion in the world, is that enough!! Allah will ask what you and I have done to establish it and what we believed, Allah will not ask you weather you got success or failure but will ask what was your intention and belief ? If you think Muslims should not do anything then it's your belief certainly not mine, I believe that we have to establish Deen Islam in Muslim majority land and if that actually happens or not is beyond my control that can only be decided by Allah but I will be asked about my intentions and my actions.

I hope this will give you idea to go through the link which I sent you earlier, don't bring your ego, prejudice or your personal intention by thinking why you should accept my saying, read Quran discuss with scholars and you will reach to the right conclusions.
 

Irobot

Senator (1k+ posts)
I told you at the first place that Quran is supreme kindly follow my previous writing, if Islam is spreading and if Islam is implemented in true form then show me a piece of land where you can show me Islam Shariya ? What you are saying is exactly what Satan wants you to believe that Islam doesn't require any help, regarding Muslim territory being expanded it was expending at the time when Akbar (Moghul king) inventor of Deen Illahi was king does that prove that Deen Illahi was right ? I sincerely think we should try to stick to Quran and Sunnah and we should not see it in isolation, Quran can't tell you how many Rakkats of Prayer is to be offered without Sunnah which means that you have to read both in conjunction.

Regarding fighting Muslims can't unite and differences in practice will always remain, I think problem happens when a person stop calling spade a spade and accepts the status quo.

Islam is still the fastest growing religion in the world, is that enough!! Allah will ask what you and I have done to establish it and what we believed, Allah will not ask you weather you got success or failure but will ask what was your intention and belief ? If you think Muslims should not do anything then it's your belief certainly not mine, I believe that we have to establish Deen Islam in Muslim majority land and if that actually happens or not is beyond my control that can only be decided by Allah but I will be asked about my intentions and my actions.

I hope this will give you idea to go through the link which I sent you earlier, don't bring your ego, prejudice or your personal intention by thinking why you should accept my saying, read Quran discuss with scholars and you will reach to the right conclusions.

i dont want to argue for sake of argument.
I call spade a spade. Every muslim should strugle for islamic state there is no doubt about that.
The argument is either u take up arms against muslim rulers or do it in peaceful way.

U said again and again that both quran and hadith should be read togather. Agreed.
Now can u show me any verses of quran regarding this matter.
Did u discuss any scholars. What did u conclude.
Every muslim wants to overthrow corrupt muslim ruler.
The question is how.
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
i dont want to argue for sake of argument.
I call spade a spade. Every muslim should strugle for islamic state there is no doubt about that.
The argument is either u take up arms against muslim rulers or do it in peaceful way.

U said again and again that both quran and hadith should be read togather. Agreed.
Now can u show me any verses of quran regarding this matter.
Did u discuss any scholars. What did u conclude.
Every muslim wants to overthrow corrupt muslim ruler.
The question is how.

Can you give roses to existing Govt and ask them to leave their Government if that is possible I am with you if not then there will be a time when you have to take measures to ensure that Allah's Deen is established, tell me of one single revolution where people didn't took arms ! even Huzoor pbuh had to take up arms to challenge status quo.

I think best explanation on this subject was given by Dr. Israr Ahmed :rahm:. Do listen to him and check if you agree with him or not and if yes then it's fine and if not then you can send your questions to tanzeem.org