Troubled ties: understanding Indo-Pak relations

IndiaGuy

Senator (1k+ posts)
Troubled ties: understanding Indo-Pak relations

Pramit Pal Chaudhuri and Jayanth Jacob, Hindustan Times
August 08, 2013



First Published: 20:40 IST(8/8/2013)
Last Updated: 21:15 IST(8/8/2013)




The debate on Indian policy towards Pakistan often assumes two choices: talking and fighting. There is a nuanced and consistent logic to how New Delhi has handled Islamabad. * What does India want to accomplish in Pakistan?
Both Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh

have taken the same view regarding Pakistan. India's goal should be to make Pakistan a "normal" country, its polity undistorted by the military, militants and outside powers like the US, Saudi Arabia and China.The game has been to show to Pakistan's civilian and military leaders two things: using terrorism to weaken India's hold over Kashmir will not work and that it inflicts a higher price on Pakistan, domestically and internationally.

* How has India tried to accomplish this goal?

One way has been for India to be an economic success, despite terrorist attacks. Pakistani noted that India's economy took off even while Kashmir was in flames. Another was to harness the external world. The 9/11 attack was a boon because it led the US to temporarily act against Pakistan's terror infrastructure.

India has sought to cultivate groups inside Pakistan, business for example, to develop a stake in normal relations with India.
New Delhi avoids military action: escalation would be inevitable, nuclear weapons would attract outside interference and, most important, there was no evidence it would change attitudes in Pakistan. But the odd border raid and at least one airstrike have been carried out.

Singh and Vajpayee both believed boycotts were symbolically nice, but substantially useless. In diplomacy rivals talk more, not less – the US and the Soviet Union being an example.

However, as a then Indian foreign secretary told his diplomats, "Talks with Pakistan are only one of a range of our options…they account for less than 20% of what happens between India and Pakistan." Contrary to popular belief, negotiations help minimize external interference. They also allow New Delhi to send signals to the wider Pakistani public.


* How successful has the strategy been?

The best example was Pervez Musharraf. He came to power a sworn enemy of India and left office seeking a full settlement of all bilateral problems. He also signed the LoC ceasefire that has given Kashmir relative peace since 2003.

Today, no mainstream civilian political party in Pakistan endorses hostilities towards India. They all want talks, trade and no terrorism. As national security advisor Shiv Shankar Menon told a US diplomat, according to Wikileaks, the core problem in Pakistan is its military.


* What is the state of relations today?

India held most of the trumps in the past decade. But the US retreat from Afghanistan, Pakistan's expectation of a friendly regime in Kabul, India's economic problems and poor relations with Washington have led the Pakistan military to once again think of stoking Kashmir's fires.

Sharif wants better relations. One reason: his economic priorities requires a stable border with India. Until the new Pakistan military chief is selected later this year, however, his leverage over the generals is zero. Pakistan's security and foreign policy, in any case, have been the prerogative of the military.

Some perspective: before the 2003 ceasefire, India lost 400 to 600 soldiers a year on the LoC. Even with the present two-year spike in violence, the tolls is in low double digits. But the trend line is not favourable.

What India's strategists also now increasingly realize is that the weakening of the Pakistani state has not been to New Delhi's benefit. The main beneficiary has been China, which is a far greater geopolitical challenge.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/world...ding-Indo-Pak-relations/Article1-1105336.aspx
 
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the real deal

MPA (400+ posts)
indians are phatto and always do false flag attack
chand din pehle nat geo per aik documentary dekh raha tha about mumbai attacks badi herani howi koi
indian navy machli pakarne wlo ko to arrest karne main master hai
ajmal kasab aya through a small boat acc to nat geo wah re indian navy chalo hum bhi chalain eid mannaney mumbai
ajmal qasab akhiri bayan main hindu ki tarah batain kar raha hai uff bechara
 

hans

Banned
As Pakistani did we started Kargil war or not?

I am very sure, Government of Pakistan for a few years always deified any involvement in Kargil... am I correct?
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The way India plays up small skirmishes into almost an act of war, it always undoes years of hardwork done by back channel diplomacy.

The Indian media is filled with crazy nutjobs and the people reporting these stories make Zaid Hamid seem like a sane person.

The Pakistani media is a lot more restrained and much less jingoistic towards India.

The indian government is always made hostage to war mongering by the hawkish media people who try to get favorable ratings by making mountains out of molehills.
 

Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Just a frustrated Bharati journalist letting of steam. It's Bharat not Pakistan that is afraid of USA/NATO leaving the region:lol::lol:
 

Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Pakistan army is rarely under control of govt. It was provocative for them to kill 5 indian soldiers.

Just like you are sitting in Afghanistan and supporting terrorists in Pakistan by attacking our army Stop complaining when we do the same to you.
 

A.G.Uddin

Minister (2k+ posts)
Just like you are sitting in Afghanistan and supporting terrorists in Pakistan by attacking our army Stop complaining when we do the same to you.

First of all Eid Mubarak to you and your family. Second, I personally doubt if Indians would like to play any aggressive role in the NWO game for Middle East and Afghanistan. If you check the map drafted by this American strategist then not only Pakistan but Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq will also loose their territories and get a cropped map. So unlike 1971, when just Pakistan lost its Eastern Wing (It was on the other end anyways), this time the elephant of New Delhi will offend the Persian leopard and Pashtun jaguar too apart from Markhor (check the national animals of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran). But USA does need violence and instability in the region to keep the war economy going on.
 

Husaink

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
یہ پاکستان میں آکاش وانی کی برانچ جیو کو تو بند کرو
 

Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
First of all Eid Mubarak to you and your family. Second, I personally doubt if Indians would like to play any aggressive role in the NWO game for Middle East and Afghanistan. If you check the map drafted by this American strategist then not only Pakistan but Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq will also loose their territories and get a cropped map. So unlike 1971, when just Pakistan lost its Eastern Wing (It was on the other end anyways), this time the elephant of New Delhi will offend the Persian leopard and Pashtun jaguar too apart from Markhor (check the national animals of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran). But USA does need violence and instability in the region to keep the war economy going on.

I don't accept Eid Mubarak from Bharatis, period!. Your cheap shot of 1971 can be best replied with 1947, Pakistan equally was not created to destabilise Bharat however such things evolve with the passing of time. You can doubt whatever you want but ISI and Pakistani military has more then enough evidence to suggest that RAW is arming terrorists in Afghanistan therefore it is only natural that ISI will do similar where Bharat is vulnerable. With Chinese incursions in to Bharat becoming regular there could be a Sino-Pak nexus to inflict maximum damage on a vulnerable and uncertain Bharat.

USA is no one friend but that does not mean we want to be yours! What we want is Bharat to leave Afghanistan otherwise there are many ways in how we perhaps together with China can bring you to your knees. Your relations with Iran are irrelevant to Pak, we will not be taking our eye of the ball.
 

A.G.Uddin

Minister (2k+ posts)
I don't accept Eid Mubarak from Bharatis, period!. Your cheap shot of 1971 can be best replied with 1947, Pakistan equally was not created to destabilise Bharat however such things evolve with the passing of time. You can doubt whatever you want but ISI and Pakistani military has more then enough evidence to suggest that RAW is arming terrorists in Afghanistan therefore it is only natural that ISI will do similar where Bharat is vulnerable. With Chinese incursions in to Bharat becoming regular there could be a Sino-Pak nexus to inflict maximum damage on a vulnerable and uncertain Bharat.

USA is no one friend but that does not mean we want to be yours! What we want is Bharat to leave Afghanistan otherwise there are many ways in how we perhaps together with China can bring you to your knees. Your relations with Iran are irrelevant to Pak, we will not be taking our eye of the ball.

Bhai I am also a Pakistani not Indian. I just gave my own views. That's it.