Shahbaz Sharif is also responsible for resolution against media - Javed Hashmi

Night-Hawk

Senator (1k+ posts)
he is a brave person, not like mqm'rs,

Yes thepearl ... I agree this is not the same in MQM ranks. This shows that PML-N has evolved democratically and its other leaders have courage to criticize their top brass. Although politically I am more inclined towards Imran Khan, but one has to call spade a spade.
 

Ajnabi27

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Originally Posted by thepearl
he is a brave person, not like mqm'rs,

Yes thepearl ... I agree this is not the same in MQM ranks.This shows that PML-N has evolved democratically (Video# 2 is a gift 4 you then) :) and :lol::lol: (3rd time PM ... no one else has any Capability of Becoming a PM....:lol::lol: Check out the party name :lol::lol: check out the shreef family and Co. within the Party :lol::lol: Just have a look at ONE man's decision changed the resolution from -ve to +ve.... What about whole PMLN lot in assembly including CM, who BACKED this resolution????) its other leaders have courage to criticize their top brass. Although politically I am more inclined towards Imran Khan, but one has to call spade a spade.

I hope both of you will have a Better sleep tonight, as you have released your insecurities against MQM. I mean look at the video... check out the issue going on... look at the context.... and see how intelligent responses you great people wrote. :) MqM doesnot do such blunders that they have to step BACK like a nailed cow. Infact MQM should be praised for not having a Single Fake Degree Holder..... Secondly the way MQM has presented this issue has outclassed every other party. :) . Third The demand of this resolution was made my MQM Assembly members about 4 days back (they are far ahead of your members when it comes to sensibility and foresightedness..... :) and the pit has to be filled anyways.

It also shows how unorganized PML(N) is where members are fighting for themselves (Watch the video below). If they do not have unity in them as a Party, how come you expect this whole nation will be united under their Governance.


Some more tension or call it an Extra doze for you about this issue and PML(N) by Haroon Rasheed (Since you talked abt democracy within the party).

 

sarbakaf

Siasat.pk - Blogger
hashmi is merely trying to bring respect back to his PML N , by opposing shahbaz sharif he is trying to pose that it was shahbaz not PML N responsible.

Nice try but i dont think we are that stupid any more or are we
 

Ammad Hafeez

Minister (2k+ posts)
Masha Allah, No Doubt Javed Hashmi is only the sincere and good politician only in PML N. That's why He doesn't enter in the party policy and therefore Nawaz Sharif & Shahbaz Sharif get him back.
 

Ammad Hafeez

Minister (2k+ posts)
he is a brave person, not like mqm'rs,

Haha, Pearl No Doubt he is the brave man. But its the bitter truth, although he is the bold leader in PML N, that's why SS and NS don't show him as front of PML N. He is the senior and devotee of PML N but he is not in front of Party Policies. the Lootas such like Hanif abbasi / Ahsan Iqbal many more showing their position infornt of all, bcoz they are the coward.
 

FlyHigh

Senator (1k+ posts)
This shows he can critizise the party leaders and get away with it. Thats because allthough NS and SS are the head hanchos of the party, they have to face the music. The media has exposed these corrupt leaders and inshallah they will all be punished. The media and judiciary are playing a revolutionary role in Pakistan.

Hopefully the media and judiciary will point out MPA, MNA and other political leaders who committed murders, are behind killing of civilians and have some how directed the killings in Pakistan. I can't wait for that Day. Then while we are at it, lets catch those who have committed high treason, dont you think Ammad?
 

Night-Hawk

Senator (1k+ posts)
Originally Posted by thepearl
he is a brave person, not like mqm'rs,



I hope both of you will have a Better sleep tonight, as you have released your insecurities against MQM. I mean look at the video... check out the issue going on... look at the context.... and see how intelligent responses you great people wrote. :) MqM doesnot do such blunders that they have to step BACK like a nailed cow. Infact MQM should be praised for not having a Single Fake Degree Holder..... Secondly the way MQM has presented this issue has outclassed every other party. :) . Third The demand of this resolution was made my MQM Assembly members about 4 days back (they are far ahead of your members when it comes to sensibility and foresightedness..... :) and the pit has to be filled anyways.

It also shows how unorganized PML(N) is where members are fighting for themselves (Watch the video below). If they do not have unity in them as a Party, how come you expect this whole nation will be united under their Governance.


Some more tension or call it an Extra doze for you about this issue and PML(N) by Haroon Rasheed (Since you talked abt democracy within the party).


No offence brother for PML bashing. I don't feel sorry for them. But there are several queries for you the die-hard MQM supporter. We feel ourselves relatively liberal in our approach to political parties. For instance I have sympathies for Imran , but I do have courage to criticize his early support for General Musharraf etc etc. I don't mind if you abuse him or malign him. We do not behave as Pujarees or cult-followers. Just look at your post --- a neutral observer will always think of two things. 1- This man belongs to certain religious group who is promoting his point of view with religious zeal. 2- Other thought would be to think of a mafia member trying to behave as more pious than the pope himself.
Media has certain limitations and fears. Those members of print media, like Takbeer, Jasarat, Millat and Ummat which have base in Karachi , are literally doing Jehad amidst sea of terrorists. Almost all major TV channels have their headquarters in Karachi, so it is close to impossible for them to malign MQM ---- Darya mein rehna aur Magar-Mach se ber wali baat hai------ So you ought to appreciate PML that media can make fun of them at their whim. People don't even dare to become witnesses in strong criminal cases against them , let alone the TV channels to start maligning them. This is the difference of culture between political party and mafia group.
MQM doesn't step back like a nailed cow because they have dead souls. Their souls are so dead that they are calling themselves haq parast. Sharam us ko aati hai jis ka zameer ho aur agar us ko jhanjora jai to wo rahe raast par aa jai. Yahan be sharmi ka ye aalam hai keh kabhi do qaumi nazriay ki dhajjian uraai jaati hain aur kabhi kashmirion ko pakistan se baaz rahnay ki talqeen ki jaati hai ... Aur be-sharam leader dakaar tak nahin detay... sorry if it hurts you...
 

Ammad Hafeez

Minister (2k+ posts)
This shows he can critizise the party leaders and get away with it. Thats because allthough NS and SS are the head hanchos of the party, they have to face the music. The media has exposed these corrupt leaders and inshallah they will all be punished. The media and judiciary are playing a revolutionary role in Pakistan.

Hopefully the media and judiciary will point out MPA, MNA and other political leaders who committed murders, are behind killing of civilians and have some how directed the killings in Pakistan. I can't wait for that Day. Then while we are at it, lets catch those who have committed high treason, dont you think Ammad?

Yeah Sure, Why Not !! :)
 

Ammad Hafeez

Minister (2k+ posts)
No offence brother for PML bashing. I don't feel sorry for them. But there are several queries for you the die-hard MQM supporter. We feel ourselves relatively liberal in our approach to political parties. For instance I have sympathies for Imran , but I do have courage to criticize his early support for General Musharraf etc etc. I don't mind if you abuse him or malign him. We do not behave as Pujarees or cult-followers. Just look at your post --- a neutral observer will always think of two things. 1- This man belongs to certain religious group who is promoting his point of view with religious zeal. 2- Other thought would be to think of a mafia member trying to behave as more pious than the pope himself.
Media has certain limitations and fears. Those members of print media, like Takbeer, Jasarat, Millat and Ummat which have base in Karachi , are literally doing Jehad amidst sea of terrorists. Almost all major TV channels have their headquarters in Karachi, so it is close to impossible for them to malign MQM ---- Darya mein rehna aur Magar-Mach se ber wali baat hai------ So you ought to appreciate PML that media can make fun of them at their whim. People don't even dare to become witnesses in strong criminal cases against them , let alone the TV channels to start maligning them. This is the difference of culture between political party and mafia group.
MQM doesn't step back like a nailed cow because they have dead souls. Their souls are so dead that they are calling themselves haq parast. Sharam us ko aati hai jis ka zameer ho aur agar us ko jhanjora jai to wo rahe raast par aa jai. Yahan be sharmi ka ye aalam hai keh kabhi do qaumi nazriay ki dhajjian uraai jaati hain aur kabhi kashmirion ko pakistan se baaz rahnay ki talqeen ki jaati hai ... Aur be-sharam leader dakaar tak nahin detay... sorry if it hurts you...

Here is the Video of Altaf Hussain where he himself making it clear.





There is a Video where Altaf Hussain is saying that "Creation of Pakistan" was a mistake.

I personally believe that it was a Mistake by Altaf Hussain to say such thing and that too in India.

But there is much more to say on this Issue than simply blaming Altaf Hussain to making Mistake and to be a Traitor of Pakistan. Following is the Lesson which our Nation has to learn.

*********************

What is WISE: Making People Friends of Making People Enemy?

Now let us come to a Lesson, which is very necessary to be learned as a Nation for us.

- Millions of Muslims of India voted for Pakistan (the ration in Central India was even higher than areas which are currently in Pakistan)

- It was almost impossible for every Muslim in India to leave every thing and to migrate to Pakistan.
Result: Only 10% Indian Muslims were able to migrate to Pakistan. Rest 90% had to stay in India (Frankly Speaking, Pakistan didn't have the capacity to host all 100% Indian Muslim Population at that time)


- So, we as Pakistanies, we did have some Moral DUTY and Responsibility towards Indian Muslims. But it seems that we failed.
And Indians were wiser than us. They absorbed that remaining Indian Muslims in their Society and net result is this that newer Generation of Indian Muslims is supporting Indian Government instead of Pakistan (contrary to older generation).

means we Lost Millions of Supporters due to our negligence
means India won Millions of Supporters due to our mistakes.


***********************

Loosing Millions of Supporters in East Pakistan

Then same Drama was played in East Pakistan.

Out text books only tell us that Mujeeb ur Rehman was a traitor to Pakistan. But they don't tell us he was one of the most loyal supporters of Qaid-e-Azam at time of creation of Pakistan and played big role that Muslims of Province Bengal decide to become part of Pakistan at time of it's creation.

But how come then that we lost this lover of Pakistan after few years? Not only we lost him, but we lost millions and millions of Lovers of Pakistan in East Section. Not only we lost them, but they cosidered us their biggest enemy and we considered them worst Traitors against Pakistan????

This is very very Important Question.

I always give invitation to Pakistani Society to ponder over this Question. There is lot to learn from our History.

If we are able to solve this Question, then for sure we will solve all the problems in Karachi too.

But if we forget our History and don't learn from our Mistakes, then we will become history ourselves.


******************************

Only Solution : JUSTICE

4th Caliph, Ali Ibn Abi Talib said: "A soceity may exist and prosper on bases of KUFR, but it could never survive on bases of INJUSTICE". In Urdu:

??? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? [????????] ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? [???? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ??]


Had we given the rights of people in East Pakistan to them, we would have not made millions of people our enemy. The lack of this JUSTICE was the main base of all that hatred and problems in East Pakistan due to which at end we declared millions of our East Pakistani Brothers to be traitor of Pakistan.


And all the problems started in Karachi too due to lack of this Justice (in 1970s). People of Karachi were better educated people and had more Political awareness. It was not easy to keep them in dark or under force (as poor Haries in Sindh and farmers in Punjab by Jageerdars).

This so called Bribe and Sifarish System is one of the biggest Evils in Pakistani Society. Not only Mahajirs have complaints against PUnjab, but all other provinces are constantly accusing Punjab that people are not taken on MERIT system in Central Institutes but all big posts belong to Punjabies and they prefer to take Punjabies too for new jobs etc. [I am not talking about it being Right or Wrong at moment, but I am only telling that People have strong doubts in their minds that MERIT System is not there but Jobs are given due to Sifarish and Bribery etc]

There are many more Evils (some of them I hinted above. Rest I will speak about later on. Insha-Allah).

************************

A Practical Example of Musharraf Era

This is the biggest slap on faces of so called Democratic Governments of Nawaz Sharif and PPP

When President Musharraf came and introduced the local Government System, then it was the very first time when People of Karachi felt that they have been given their rights (or a big part of their rights) and now much of their fate lies in their hands.

Even first Local Government didn't belong to Mutahiddah (but Jamaat while Mutahiddah boycotted first elections due to lack of confidence on Military Government), but still there was total peace and violence in that era too.

There are many types of taxes. But earlier, the local taxes of Karachi, which were collected in name of water, severage, local road making etc. went to Sindh Provincial Government and then never came back. Result was no development in Karachi.

But President Musharraf succeeded in developing Karachi and bringing peace in Karachi without even firing a Single Bullet. And Mutahiddah also responded to it very Positively and they put not even a single Illegal Condition for peace (which their opponents always accused them of i.e. forming of Jinahpur etc and loyal to India etc.)

So, the Key Word is JUSTICE

**************************

Traitors to Pakistan

I am sorry to President Zardari for taking his words ....... but as nation we should remember:

Pakistan is no Quran or Hadith which lasts forever despite our blunders

- Why we forget that it was same ALTAF HUSSAIN who thanked Pak Army for saving the lives of Muhajirs in Haiderabad during the Paka Qilla Operation.

- Not only Altaf Hussain, but all Muhajirs were raising slogans in favour of Pak Army at this act.

- But then came the BLACK ERA and there were clashes between Security Forces and MQM in Karachi where estimated 18000 Muhajirs were killed [Again I am not talking about who was right or wrong or both were wrong]. But one fact is clear that People of Karachi accused PPP and Nawaz Sharif for the Extra Judicial Killings and backed Muttahida Fully.


- People were simply arrested by Police, and then only their dead Bodies retunred. The real brother of Altaf Hussain and his young Nephew were killed in such way too. Afer looking at all this bloodbath of estimated 18000 of people and his close relative, every one could go nuts.

- Then we heard Altaf Hussain in India where he was saying that creation of Pakistan was a mistake.

- People of Karachi, who supported Muttahidah, they themselves didn't like it and think agaist it, but few Realities are here to be noted:

Firstly, Altaf Hussain is not the first who believe creation of Pakistan to be historic mistake. But millions of Indian Muslims and East Pakistani Muslims also believed it. Should we also then declare all of these Millions of Muslims to be traitors of Pakistan?


Secondly, normal Pakistanies damn care about Indian Muslims, but major sacrifies came from Muhajirs. For them it was the real DIVISION of BLOOD.
If daughter is in Pakistan, then Parents are in India and vice versa. There were millions of families of Muhajirs who really felt this Division of Blood and suffered under it badly.


So, we do have a problem. We should not deny it. Creation of Pakistan did brought all these hardships for millions of these Families. And even after all these sufferings right from the times of creation of Pakistan, again there are great INJUSTICES in Karachi that 18000 people were killed in extra judicial Killings by Forces, worst treatment by Rangers ....... then for sure there are people who raise the question about Creation of Pakistan and Division of Blood. You could never oppress these voices.

Solution doesn't lies in declaring Mutahiddah to be Terrorist and Traitor.

But Solution lies in bringing Justice to the Area, making them friends and not enemies, showing love to these people and handle them as Pakistanies. Even if they have gone against us, but only love and patience could bring them back towards us.

There are even fights between two real brothers. But love and patience is the only way to solve problems.


Creation of Pakistan was not Quran or Sunnah that any one who views it to be a mistake should be blamed to be a traitor and should be hanged.

No.

Just remember Hadhrat Umar didn't cut the hands of one thief while it were the conditions of hunger which compelled him to steal.

Remember, same is the case here. First Blame goes to these conditions of Injustice, Extra Judicial Killings, Division of Blood ..... which caused people to believe that Creation of Pakistan was a mistake.


So remove these Conditions. Don't kill brothers and nephews of people. And even after removing all these Conditions one still open his mouth against Pakistan, then he is really the culprit. But till the time these conditions are not removed, we have to show patience (as Hadhrat Umar showed with that thief who stole).

Altaf Hussain is a reality and millions of People of Karachi who support him and Mutahiddah are also a reality. If you are wise enough, then you could realise it (and not make a mistake again when you blamed Majeeb ur Rehman too for a traitor without watching to the fact how many millions of East Pakistanies were standing behind him).


*****************************

And at last, it is not only People of Karachi who questions some times the creation of Pakistan due to their sufferings and division of Blood, but it is millions and millions of Indian Muslims too who are today questioning the creation of Pakistan and the decision made by their older generation.


May I ask people here if they ever met an Indian Muslims and tried to hear all his complaints silently and then ever thougt over it?

Let me tell you a little about THINKING of Millions of Indian Muslims. You will see them always making one Calculation i.e. 160 Million Muslims of Pakistan + 150 Million Muslims of India + 150 Million Muslims of Bangladesh = 460-470 Millions of Muslims in India

This mean Muslims would have been in such a big numbers that Hindu Extremists would have got no chance to show the cruelity towards Indian Muslims, or to make then 2nd degree Citizens, or to snatch the jobs from them and to keep them backward.

In brief, Indian Muslims blame creation of Pakistan for all the hardships they have to face today. Hardships not only mean Hindu Extremists, but it also mean Division of Blood for Indian Muslims too, which their half families are in India and half are in Pakistan/Bangladesh.

Unfortunately, except for Muhajirs, no one care about the Indian Muslims and how they look at the creation of Pakistan after all these 60 years.

So Sir,

Things are not so simple. They have a deep background.

You may keep on denying all this (like tens of other Pakistanies to whom I showed the Dark Angles of this whold Picture).

Our fate lies in our own hands. Should we approach to Million of People of Karachi (Mutahiddah Supporters) with hatred and Accusations, ...... or to approach them with Justice, love and respect.

No one is perfect. All have negative sides too. And clapping could only be done with two hands i.e. both parties should show the right attitude. Insha-Allah.
 

Alish

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Geo Hashmi Brave Man (clap)

Ammad Hafeez (yapping)

Kitni Mehnet Say Notes Prepare kiye hain tum Nay Apnay Master Chooran Wale k Liye...
Lakin koi Faaida Nahi Lala Jo Such Hota hay Woh Nazar Aata Hay Iss Terah Lembi Lembi Chapnay Say koi Faida Nahi Hota.

Such Sunenay ka Hosla Rekho MQM Slave.
 

R.A.W.K

Voter (50+ posts)
Yes thepearl ... I agree this is not the same in MQM ranks. This shows that PML-N has evolved democratically and its other leaders have courage to criticize their top brass. Although politically I am more inclined towards Imran Khan, but one has to call spade a spade.

You know what i totally agree with you.. but not the entire pml-n, theres plenty of compatible baboons in them and my particular problem with them is thier inter-party democracy.. Javed Hashmi is an exception, dad says that back in his college days the chants used to be 'aik bahadur aadmi... hashmi hashmi'
 

Ajnabi27

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
No offence brother for PML bashing. I don't feel sorry for them. But there are several queries for you the die-hard MQM supporter. We feel ourselves relatively liberal in our approach to political parties. For instance I have sympathies for Imran , but I do have courage to criticize his early support for General Musharraf (i like musharaf and imran (somehow) too Its my choice and I have my reason for liking)etc etc. I don't mind if you abuse him or malign him. (Why would I abuse him for anything? Its you who has to make a decision why you like him and stick to it... Its none of my concern. Sometimes I reply to IK related post when people start taking the P*** at MQM for No Reason. After all I have every Reason and Right to Defend MQM caz for me They are the best in all and I am Proud of MQM.) We do not behave as Pujarees or cult-followers.(Its upto you How you think or ur belives.....To me I am dedicated and loyal to MQM since my Childhood in Streets of Karachi, as I said I am Proud to Support MQM.....) Just look at your post --- a neutral observer will always think of two things. 1- This man belongs to certain religious group who is promoting his point of view with religious zeal.(If you want to call it RELIGIOUS ZEAL, I call it Passion and I have every reason to support MQM as they are the BEST in all. and I am really Talking Sense and FACTS in the Above Post.) 2- Other thought would be to think of a mafia member trying to behave as more pious than the pope himself.
(I dont know whats a Mafia definition to you... No Idea why did you bring that up, I think I was polite enough in every way to reply you. Who is more Pious..... YOU brought your Insecurity out of NO where .... When the topic is abt PMLN.... Context is something Else and look at your Respose, Again YOU had to BLAME MQM for FOR NO REASON. SO, ITS INSIDE YOU not Me, as I just Defended MQM and showed you the mirror with Facts. )
Media has certain limitations and fears. Those members of print media, like Takbeer, Jasarat, Millat and Ummat which have base in Karachi , are literally doing Jehad amidst sea of terrorists.("Terrorist" With this kind of Mentality How on earth you would ever get convinced by any MQMer.... Keep your eyes wide open and Wake up.... Its not 1990s mate when we got Reporters from Islamabad and Lahore to report for Jinnah Pure.... Propaganda time is over... Its only Ummat and Takbeer against MQM, as they have Jamati Association... If you know the history of Karachi.... They had been Wiped out completely and they are still crying for their lost power...... They do propaganda everyday on TV.... the gift like The Asian Journal and The London Post is also by Jamaaties. and many more..... I lived it Karachi for my Life and I know MQM very well Interanlly as well. They have the most Intelligent and Educated people who can change the Bad State of Pakistan.... n Im sure abt that.) Almost all major TV channels have their headquarters in Karachi, so it is close to impossible for them to malign MQM ---- Darya mein rehna aur Magar-Mach se ber wali baat hai--(Its called Reality bites, caz MQM spokesmen are FAR more Educated and Sensible and Logical than any other Party.. PML gets bashed up (1) They r not organized... Their party never has One stance on an Issue. (2) Some of them are really Rubbish... Belive me or not.... Why should not be they get confronted ???? (3) they have majority and Power in Pujab that s one of the reason too.... Now if there was a single Fake degree holder in MQM , Party would have Kicked him out... I am 100% sure abou that)---- So you ought to appreciate PML that media can make fun of them at their whim. People don't even dare to become witnesses in strong criminal cases against them , let alone the TV channels to start maligning them. This is the difference of culture between political party and mafia group. (Phir Wahi Bachoo Wali Baat, now what can I answer you for that. MQM is progressing and Really have delivered thats why some anchors have soft corner for them. as every single anchor has a political association... im sure u know it..But what you see frm media eyes is mostly True... Beliving something is always your choice. Some of the 12 Footages were against MQM and it was in Media so keep your facts straight..... Anyways If you live in Karachi, you dont have to be Muhajir or Urdu speaking to like MQM...there are many Punjabies...Pathans ... Sindhies and all others diversity of People who Like MQM..... Trust me its true Infact I am one of them :) Mafia Group (Your way of thinking)... Crimnal Cases..... They all are getting cleared.... and also every MQMer is not an Angel... Just like any other party members )

MQM doesn't step back like a nailed cow because they have dead souls. Their souls are so dead that they are calling themselves haq parast. Sharam us ko aati hai jis ka zameer ho aur agar us ko jhanjora jai to wo rahe raast par aa jai. (Take off that blind folded Strip from your eyes.... and Accept the Reality...MQM is a Power and is a Stake holders in Pakistan.... Accept them.. They are Expanding anyways, Even If you dont accept them..... you dont have to agree with them, Choice is always yours....Sharam hona or Besharam ho na aap ka Nazarya hai, You cannot Impose on me or anyone else, Do it, If it makes you Happy...Honestly when u are Arguing someone keep your Internal Emotions to yourself......Yahan be sharmi ka ye aalam hai keh kabhi do qaumi nazriay ki dhajjian uraai jaati hain aur kabhi kashmirion ko pakistan se baaz rahnay ki talqeen ki jaati hai ... Aur be-sharam leader dakaar tak nahin detay... sorry if it hurts you... "Baat ki jati hai" Baat to har koi karta hai. BAAT TU AAP Bhi Kar rahe hooo Proof Karoo with LOGIC if you have any... I know MQM since my childhood and party itself including the Leader... All of those allegations have been cleared so far imposed on MQM. Look at MQM's stances on any national issues they are far better than others..... There are millions of Haters all around who have nothing else but to Criticize MQM for some reasons. If you are one of them Keep doing it.... )[/QUOTE]

I would have appreciated your response, If you had replied to the Facts I mentioned..... But you just simply Squared them off...... :lol: or atleast say Right is Right :)
 
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Night-Hawk

Senator (1k+ posts)
Here is the Video of Altaf Hussain where he himself making it clear.





There is a Video where Altaf Hussain is saying that "Creation of Pakistan" was a mistake.

I personally believe that it was a Mistake by Altaf Hussain to say such thing and that too in India.

Since you are first to say this thing, I wish you all the best and God speed ! Kum az kum kisi ne to kalma e Haq baland kia--Allah tumharay ghar walon ki hifazat karay -----
[/QUOTE]But there is much more to say on this Issue than simply blaming Altaf Hussain to making Mistake and to be a Traitor of Pakistan. Following is the Lesson which our Nation has to learn. [/QUOTE]

*********************

[/QUOTE]What is WISE: Making People Friends of Making People Enemy?

Now let us come to a Lesson, which is very necessary to be learned as a Nation for us.

- Millions of Muslims of India voted for Pakistan (the ration in Central India was even higher than areas which are currently in Pakistan)[/QUOTE]
You know during Pakistan movement initially, there was no sketch of Muslims state and its geographic frontiers --- No one conceived partition of punjab and Bengal -- So in our elders minds the whole aforementioned provinces were to be included in Pakistan. So that didn't happen.
[/QUOTE]- It was almost impossible for every Muslim in India to leave every thing and to migrate to Pakistan.
Result: Only 10% Indian Muslims were able to migrate to Pakistan. Rest 90% had to stay in India (Frankly Speaking, Pakistan didn't have the capacity to host all 100% Indian Muslim Population at that time)[/QUOTE]
Of course it was impossible for a new country to accommodate all but Pakistan never shut the doors for Indian Muslims as of early 1950s. There was no restriction of numbers for refugees.

[/QUOTE]- So, we as Pakistanies, we did have some Moral DUTY and Responsibility towards Indian Muslims. But it seems that we failed.
And Indians were wiser than us. They absorbed that remaining Indian Muslims in their Society and net result is this that newer Generation of Indian Muslims is supporting Indian Government instead of Pakistan (contrary to older generation).[/QUOTE]
How come? Those who hailed from Uttar Pardesh and Central provinces, themselves have joined hands with hindus in an effort to appease them. This gave very negative impression to Indian muslims, for them it were the urdu speakers who ditched them. I know there were muslim leaders of India who criticized Altaf Hussain's advice of staying loyal to India and Indians by saying that you yourself are not loyal to your country and involved in criminal acts against your state , how can you advise us -----
[/QUOTE]means we Lost Millions of Supporters due to our negligence
means India won Millions of Supporters due to our mistakes.[/QUOTE]

I do not agree to this proposition that India has absorbed them into its population. If that was the case then why did incidents like Babri Masjid and Gujrat take place. Why Indian Muslims are always treated as 2nd class citizens of the state. What is their share in Govt Jobs.
***********************

[/QUOTE]Loosing Millions of Supporters in East Pakistan

Then same Drama was played in East Pakistan.

Out text books only tell us that Mujeeb ur Rehman was a traitor to Pakistan. But they don't tell us he was one of the most loyal supporters of Qaid-e-Azam at time of creation of Pakistan and played big role that Muslims of Province Bengal decide to become part of Pakistan at time of it's creation.[/QUOTE]
Another bullshit --- Mujeeb was the first to revolt against Quaid e Azam on the matter of your Urdu language. He rebuffed Urdu with utter contempt. He once called it Mohajir-Punjabi conspiracy and then west-pakistan's conspiracy to suppress their language and culture.
After Dhaka fall he landed on London air port and said that he was yearning for independence since 1947. His daughter herself has said that Agartalla conspiracy was real and Mujeeb actually planned to secede with the help of Indians.

[/QUOTE]But how come then that we lost this lover of Pakistan after few years? Not only we lost him, but we lost millions and millions of Lovers of Pakistan in East Section. Not only we lost them, but they cosidered us their biggest enemy and we considered them worst Traitors against Pakistan????

This is very very Important Question.

I always give invitation to Pakistani Society to ponder over this Question. There is lot to learn from our History.

If we are able to solve this Question, then for sure we will solve all the problems in Karachi too.

But if we forget our History and don't learn from our Mistakes, then we will become history ourselves.[/QUOTE]

Mistakes of history are very clear. Justice Hamood-ur-Rehman very well inquired about the actual magnitude of atrocities. It is lesson of the history that Military dictators always suppress the will of the people. And democracy is the better system to save the integrity of the country. But what is your point ???????????
Your (MQMs) whose history from inception (Gen Zia) to zenith (Gen Pervez Musharraf) is tagged with military dictators. Military governments have always been good omen for MQM and bad omen for pakistan.
So you haven't learnt from the history that dictatorships herald end of nations.

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[/QUOTE]Only Solution : JUSTICE

4th Caliph, Ali Ibn Abi Talib said: "A soceity may exist and prosper on bases of KUFR, but it could never survive on bases of INJUSTICE". In Urdu:

??? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? [????????] ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? [???? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ??]


Had we given the rights of people in East Pakistan to them, we would have not made millions of people our enemy. The lack of this JUSTICE was the main base of all that hatred and problems in East Pakistan due to which at end we declared millions of our East Pakistani Brothers to be traitor of Pakistan.[/QUOTE]

You (MQM) know all that ----- what a surprise? I think because of this knowledge you have probably killed dozens of peaceful lawyers on 12th may --- for free judiciary --- say yes ????
After killings your blue-eyed general declared with his fists clenched ----- DEKHI AWAM KI TAQAT.


[/QUOTE]And all the problems started in Karachi too due to lack of this Justice (in 1970s). People of Karachi were better educated people and had more Political awareness. It was not easy to keep them in dark or under force (as poor Haries in Sindh and farmers in Punjab by Jageerdars). [/QUOTE]

BUT I THINK THEY ARE UNDER FORCE NOW --- THANKS TO THEIR OWN BHATTA KHORS

[/QUOTE]This so called Bribe and Sifarish System is one of the biggest Evils in Pakistani Society. Not only Mahajirs have complaints against PUnjab, but all other provinces are constantly accusing Punjab that people are not taken on MERIT system in Central Institutes but all big posts belong to Punjabies and they prefer to take Punjabies too for new jobs etc. [I am not talking about it being Right or Wrong at moment, but I am only telling that People have strong doubts in their minds that MERIT System is not there but Jobs are given due to Sifarish and Bribery etc][/QUOTE]

I am not an advocate of Punjab---But I can't comprehend your fears of Punjab. You were literally ousted and kicked out of Interior sindh by sindhis. Then you clashed with Pathans , with Balochis in lyari...
This is all bullshit and propaganda ----- there is quota system according to population in central government. Not even a single seat belonging to other province can go to punjab. You might be well aware of quota system that you people themselves have created in your own province ---- what a shame? same province and no equal opportunities.... division of urban and rural sindh ---- bullshit.

[/QUOTE]There are many more Evils (some of them I hinted above. Rest I will speak about later on. Insha-Allah).[/QUOTE]
Go on please
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[/QUOTE]A Practical Example of Musharraf Era

This is the biggest slap on faces of so called Democratic Governments of Nawaz Sharif and PPP

When President Musharraf came and introduced the local Government System, then it was the very first time when People of Karachi felt that they have been given their rights (or a big part of their rights) and now much of their fate lies in their hands.

Even first Local Government didn't belong to Mutahiddah (but Jamaat while Mutahiddah boycotted first elections due to lack of confidence on Military Government), but still there was total peace and violence in that era too. [/QUOTE]

No not at all ----- your boycott was a farce--- you people were negotiating underhand with musharraf. Musharraf had problems that he was sidelining mainstream parties and he was in dire need of alliance with anyone. And you exploited that weakness. Initially he was very reluctant to give you a chance for that would have undone all the efforts to clean Karachi from terrorists in the past. This is evidenced by statement of Hamid mir that he quoted last year. According to Mir ---musharraf said , if it was free for him , he would have shot Altaf terrorist in skull.

[/QUOTE]There are many types of taxes. But earlier, the local taxes of Karachi, which were collected in name of water, severage, local road making etc. went to Sindh Provincial Government and then never came back. Result was no development in Karachi.

But President Musharraf succeeded in developing Karachi and bringing peace in Karachi without even firing a Single Bullet. And Mutahiddah also responded to it very Positively and they put not even a single Illegal Condition for peace (which their opponents always accused them of i.e. forming of Jinahpur etc and loyal to India etc.)[/QUOTE]

So the conclusion is that it was all power politics. Like a mafia , when you wings were stripped you resorted to killings, but when given free hand you were even happy with a dictator who could not in any case give justice to people of Pakistan. Tum logon ne Musharraf ki kehnay pe karachi ki betiaan tak utha ke america ke hawalay kar deen.

[/QUOTE]So, the Key Word is JUSTICE[/QUOTE]

Musharraf did justice by giving LOLLYPOP TO your dear leader operating from London.
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[/QUOTE]Traitors to Pakistan

I am sorry to President Zardari for taking his words ....... but as nation we should remember:

Pakistan is no Quran or Hadith which lasts forever despite our blunders[/QUOTE]

Naan naan naan naan ------- Meray piaray Mr 10 % ko itna badnaam naan karo keh tamaam buraiyaan us se mansoob kar do----
These golden remarks are attributed to your all time great MUSTAFA KAMAL.... He said from his sacred tongue , "Pakistan koi Quran ya Hadees to nahin keh qayamat tak qaim rahe".
Zardari sahb ne to sirf wadon (promises) ki baat ki thii ---- DO NOT DISTORT THE FACTS

[/QUOTE]- Why we forget that it was same ALTAF HUSSAIN who thanked Pak Army for saving the lives of Muhajirs in Haiderabad during the Paka Qilla Operation.

- Not only Altaf Hussain, but all Muhajirs were raising slogans in favour of Pak Army at this act.[/QUOTE]

MEETHA MEETHA HAPP KARWA KARWA THOO

[/QUOTE]- But then came the BLACK ERA and there were clashes between Security Forces and MQM in Karachi where estimated 18000 Muhajirs were killed [Again I am not talking about who was right or wrong or both were wrong]. But one fact is clear that People of Karachi accused PPP and Nawaz Sharif for the Extra Judicial Killings and backed Muttahida Fully.[/QUOTE]

YAAR SECURITY FORCES TALIBAAN SE LARAIN TO THEEK --- TUMHARAY MAFIA GANG SE TAKRAIN TO GHALAT---- KIA YE KHULA TAZAD NAHIN
Who gave you these figures of 18000 ---- you accused Naseerullah babar of 2000 extra judicial killings. Un 18000 'Shaheedon' ko kisi aik graveyard mein dafnaya jaata to ginti asaan hoti -----
NAWAZ SHARIF AUR BENAZIR YA ARMY KI AAP SE KOI KHAWMKHAWAH KI LARAI HAI ? Bottom line is that people of karachi were killed with impunity---- Army aap logon ka tamasha dekhti rahay ----


[/QUOTE]- People were simply arrested by Police, and then only their dead Bodies retunred. The real brother of Altaf Hussain and his young Nephew were killed in such way too. Afer looking at all this bloodbath of estimated 18000 of people and his close relative, every one could go nuts.[/QUOTE]

The modus operandi of your organization is to 'overwhelm or be overwhelmed' by the use of force. So violence begets violence. You know that in the name of collateral damage many pakhtuns are killed in tribal areas -- so the same thing happened here in Karachi. Obviously there could have been few innocent killings which should be condemned.
[/QUOTE]- Then we heard Altaf Hussain in India where he was saying that creation of Pakistan was a mistake.

- People of Karachi, who supported Muttahidah, they themselves didn't like it and think agaist it, but few Realities are here to be noted:

Firstly, Altaf Hussain is not the first who believe creation of Pakistan to be historic mistake. But millions of Indian Muslims and East Pakistani Muslims also believed it. Should we also then declare all of these Millions of Muslims to be traitors of Pakistan?[/QUOTE]
Those who are not citizens are Pakistan are not traitors of Pakistan. Your dear leader in strict sense is also not traitor as he is BRITISH CITIZEN ----just kidding

[/QUOTE]Secondly, normal Pakistanies damn care about Indian Muslims, but major sacrifies came from Muhajirs. For them it was the real DIVISION of BLOOD.
If daughter is in Pakistan, then Parents are in India and vice versa. There were millions of families of Muhajirs who really felt this Division of Blood and suffered under it badly.[/QUOTE]

Normal Pakistanis do care about Indian Muslims and there were huge demonstrations against Gujrat and Babri mosque incidents all over Pakistan. It is quite unnatural for a muslim to remain unconcerned with the pain of other muslim. Pakistanis have helped muslims all over the world like chechnya, bosnia, afghanistan, india (including kashmir). Infact Pakistan is the only Muslim country to care about Muslims worldwide.
Did your leader ever snub India for its atrocities towards Indian Muslims??? The answer is big NO.... So Urdu speaking Indians were infact ditched by their own Urdu speaking Pakistanis of a terrorist organization.


[/QUOTE]So, we do have a problem. We should not deny it. Creation of Pakistan did brought all these hardships for millions of these Families. And even after all these sufferings right from the times of creation of Pakistan, again there are great INJUSTICES in Karachi that 18000 people were killed in extra judicial Killings by Forces, worst treatment by Rangers ....... then for sure there are people who raise the question about Creation of Pakistan and Division of Blood. You could never oppress these voices.[/QUOTE]

Your forefathers while migrating towards Pakistan did think that their step of migration will obviously divide blood---- But they did it. And I know all Patriotic urdu speakers never repent on this noble step of theirs. They are better off than their Indian brethren.

[/QUOTE]Solution doesn't lies in declaring Mutahiddah to be Terrorist and Traitor.[/QUOTE]

So why was Naseer ullah Baber successful in stopping the target killings and Bhatta during that notorious operation?

[/QUOTE]But Solution lies in bringing Justice to the Area, making them friends and not enemies, showing love to these people and handle them as Pakistanies. Even if they have gone against us, but only love and patience could bring them back towards us.

There are even fights between two real brothers. But love and patience is the only way to solve problems. [/QUOTE]

Yes I agree to this proposition and it may apply to all those terrorist who are otherwise Pakistanis but fighting with Pakistan army in tribal areas. (clap)

[/QUOTE]Creation of Pakistan was not Quran or Sunnah that any one who views it to be a mistake should be blamed to be a traitor and should be hanged. [/QUOTE]

One always has to obey the law of the land ---- Javed Hashmi ko sirf aik letter dikhanay per aap ke mush ne jail mein daal dia --- Altaf Bhai kaisay bach niklay ---- ohooo mein bhool kion jaaata hoon ke wo BRITISH CITIZEN hain.



I have answered your division of blood hypothesis. The Muslims of Makkah migrated to Medina to strengthen Islam and form an Islamic state leaving behind their near and dear ones. Allah likes the struggle of those Mohajreen who migrate for Islam and for upholding the spirit of Islam. Those who die in this sacred struggle of migration are always called Shaheed. You should be proud of your elders. Tumharay Altaf Bhai ka kala khoon un be gunah shaheedon ke khoon se match nahin karta. I REQUEST YOU TO STOP THIS BULLSHIT AND DO NOT DISCREDIT YOUR ELDERS FOR THEIR SACRIFICES IN BUILDING THIS NATION.

SO in a sense you also want to undo the partition ---- to unite the blood ???? It means that there will be no peace till your conditions are met...

Now you have government and you can investigate the extra judicial killings --- who is stopping you?


[/QUOTE]So remove these Conditions. Don't kill brothers and nephews of people. And even after removing all these Conditions one still open his mouth against Pakistan, then he is really the culprit. But till the time these conditions are not removed, we have to show patience (as Hadhrat Umar showed with that thief who stole).[/QUOTE]

Till the conditions are not removed ---- Altaf Bhai will continue to endorse drone attacks -- will continue to ask Kashmiris to be loyal to India and forget about merger with pakistan ---- will continue to call partiton a blunder blah blah blah :angry_smile::angry_smile:
[/QUOTE]Altaf Hussain is a reality and millions of People of Karachi who support him and Mutahiddah are also a reality. If you are wise enough, then you could realise it (and not make a mistake again when you blamed Majeeb ur Rehman too for a traitor without watching to the fact how many millions of East Pakistanies were standing behind him).[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately this reality is FRANKENSTEIN created by our own agencies to counter Sindhu Desh forces but Indian agencies have outsmarted us by purchasing his (AH) loyalty and creating their sleeper cells in our largest city. In present times there are ways to gain attention and loyalty by the use of propaganda and ethnic hatred coupled with brutal force.
Sheikh Mujib did the same thing but he had strategic advantage of territory.


*****************************

[/QUOTE]And at last, it is not only People of Karachi who questions some times the creation of Pakistan due to their sufferings and division of Blood, but it is millions and millions of Indian Muslims too who are today questioning the creation of Pakistan and the decision made by their older generation.[/QUOTE]

Indian muslims are indians and we wish them well for being muslims but what about you questioning about Pakistan. I have replied your statement in above para.

[/QUOTE]May I ask people here if they ever met an Indian Muslims and tried to hear all his complaints silently and then ever thougt over it?

Let me tell you a little about THINKING of Millions of Indian Muslims. You will see them always making one Calculation i.e. 160 Million Muslims of Pakistan + 150 Million Muslims of India + 150 Million Muslims of Bangladesh = 460-470 Millions of Muslims in India[/QUOTE]

Lets make it 500 million---- (with this knowledge that bengladesh has 88 % muslims) for the sake of argument --- then you are still left with hindu majority... Largest Muslim population of the world remains a non-muslim state. It means that largest chunk of Muslim ummah remains free of their representation in the comity of nations.----- what a shame? Ghulami ki bhi koi had hoti hai???

[/QUOTE]This mean Muslims would have been in such a big numbers that Hindu Extremists would have got no chance to show the cruelity towards Indian Muslims, or to make then 2nd degree Citizens, or to snatch the jobs from them and to keep them backward. [/QUOTE]

Its not about snatching jobs my dear. Indian so called democratic system has not deprived Muslims but the fault lies in Muslims who are underdeveloped and less educated. This was the same problem which we all had faced before partition. For example in my district (which was then part of Dera Ismail Khan division ) had 88 % Muslim population and the high school at district headquarters had only 12 % Muslims. Pakistan gave us opportunity to flourish otherwise I would have been a peon instead of a physician.

And you cannot say that we would have been in a better positon to protect ourselves. This is very idiotic statement. Look at nigeria with 55% Muslims and hundreds of thousands of people have been killed in civil war between Muslims and Christians.
So there would have been more bloodshed instead of a relative peace which we are seeing in India. Because it is not in the essence of Muslims to remain enslaved while having significant strength. Just think of 1000 years rule of Muslims and you can assess the Muslim mentality and their disdain towards Hindus.
With Hindu majority means that you are left with no other option except to give government to Hindus. It was blessing of Pakistan that we have freed at least two thirds of Indian Muslims from the clutches of poverty and hindu dominance.


[/QUOTE]In brief, Indian Muslims blame creation of Pakistan for all the hardships they have to face today. Hardships not only mean Hindu Extremists, but it also mean Division of Blood for Indian Muslims too, which their half families are in India and half are in Pakistan/Bangladesh.
[/QUOTE]
I have addressed this issue in above para.

[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, except for Muhajirs, no one care about the Indian Muslims and how they look at the creation of Pakistan after all these 60 years. [/QUOTE]

Yes you have cared well, we are seeing that --- You dear leader asks Kashmiris to stop their voices of right to self determination. Your dear leader has never condemned Indian atrocities to indian muslims ( after all he himself is an indian stooge)
So Sir,

[/QUOTE]Things are not so simple. They have a deep background. [/QUOTE]

Things are very simple dear --- you have complicated them deliberately with the blend of ethnic/ linguistic hatred and provincialism. Sometimes twisting basic facts and sometimes questioning the legality and very roots of this Mamlekat-e-Khudadaad.

[/QUOTE]You may keep on denying all this (like tens of other Pakistanies to whom I showed the Dark Angles of this whold Picture). [/QUOTE]

While you yourself are living in self denial.
[/QUOTE]Our fate lies in our own hands. Should we approach to Million of People of Karachi (Mutahiddah Supporters) with hatred and Accusations, ...... or to approach them with Justice, love and respect. [/QUOTE]

I want JUSTICE by muttahida , they have courts and they have might ---- go ahead and open the cases of those extra judicial killings --- I wish you well.
Love and respect are given to people like Abdus-Sittar Edhi , Hakeem Saeed, Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan, Syed Salahuddin, and many more who are struggling for this nation and giving their lives to protect the ideological frontiers of this state, and not to those who kill with ethnic hatred and drill into skull with impunity... I REPEAT HATE BEGETS HATE.

[/QUOTE]No one is perfect. All have negative sides too. And clapping could only be done with two hands i.e. both parties should show the right attitude. Insha-Allah.
[/QUOTE]

But even then --- I salute you for the courage you have shown in condemning Altaf's actions in India.
 
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