scepticism

[Niazi Hawk]

 

[Absent Mind]

ظاہری حواس سے حاصل ہونے والا علم انسان کو اُن حقائق کے بارے میں پتا دیتا ہے جن کو وہ اپنی ننگی آنکھ سے بھی نہیں دیکھ سکتا۔ تشکیک کا جہاں تک تعلق ہے اسکو ہمیشہ مذہب کے خلاف استعمال کیا گیا ہے اور دنیا کی کسی حقیقیت کے خلاف نہیں کیا گیا۔ تشکیکی خیالات جس شخص کے بھی ہوں گے سب سے پہلے خالق کی زات کو ریزِ بحث لائے گا۔ اور پھر وہی گھسے پٹے دلائل سے اپنی تعصبانہ سوچ کی تشفی کرے گا۔

 

[vote4pti]

Skepticism/Scepticism/Agnosticism itna dry topic hai k iss pe 2 baaltiyaan thanday paani ki daalo aur phir parhnay betho.... :P

Jub samajh na aaey ya thak jao tau 'monotheism' is the solution, Allah ki wahdaaniyet mein yani tauheed mein elaaj hai aisi saari zehni beemarion ka.... Faith in true religion and practise leads to ultimate satisfaction...

 

[NasNY]

ظاہری حواس سے حاصل ہونے والا علم انسان کو اُن حقائق کے بارے میں پتا دیتا ہے جن کو وہ اپنی ننگی آنکھ سے بھی نہیں دیکھ سکتا۔ تشکیک کا جہاں تک تعلق ہے اسکو ہمیشہ مذہب کے خلاف استعمال کیا گیا ہے اور دنیا کی کسی حقیقیت کے خلاف نہیں کیا گیا۔ تشکیکی خیالات جس شخص کے بھی ہوں گے سب سے پہلے خالق کی زات کو ریزِ بحث لائے گا۔ اور پھر وہی گھسے پٹے دلائل سے اپنی تعصبانہ سوچ کی تشفی کرے گا۔

You correctly hit the hammer on the nail, skepticism is a seed planted by the atheist against religion.

Atheist arguments which are developed against Christianity, christian scholars have no answer for them.

When same arguments applied against ISLAM, they fail miserably.

Quran has answers to all the Skeptics. There is a verse in the Quran that refers to atheist as "Timers"

Those who say that this is the only life and time they have and there is nothing else afterwords.

According to the writer last sentence is true,

if you take into account that ILM of Islam is in the Quran, and once you have it, you are 100% sure of the authenticity of the message of Allah.

 

[lurker]

You are a skeptic of Atheism. That's why you believe in Islam. Congratulations. ;) Your post reminded me of a famous quote:

"She believed in Nothing. Only her skepticism kept her from being an athiest."

You correctly hit the hammer on the nail, skepticism is a seed planted by the atheist against religion.

Atheist arguments which are developed against Christianity, christian scholars have no answer for them.

When same arguments applied against ISLAM, they fail miserably.

Quran has answers to all the Skeptics. There is a verse in the Quran that refers to atheist as "Timers"

Those who say that this is the only life and time they have and there is nothing else afterwords.

According to the writer last sentence is true,

if you take into account that ILM of Islam is in the Quran, and once you have it, you are 100% sure of the authenticity of the message of Allah.

 

[lurker]

All religion require unqualified faith. But the institution of Science makes skepticism a virtue.

 

[NasNY]

You are a skeptic of Atheism. That's why you believe in Islam. Congratulations. ;) Your post reminded me of a famous quote: "She believed in Nothing. Only her skepticism kept her from being an athiest."

A person can't be a skeptic of Atheism, because there is no ism to atheism. Atheism is an absence, ignorance of everything.

I have no respect for an atheist not because he doesn't believe in god, but because they act arrogant know it all, yet they know as much as a 5 year old.

I have known and debated many atheist, Indians and Americans, when you provide them proof for their diminutive arguments they look at you like a deer in headlights,

because their knowledge comes from reading quotes and one liners there is no fathomage in their knowledge.

 

[lurker]

A person can't be a skeptic of Atheism, because there is no ism to atheism. Atheism is an absence, ignorance of everything.

I have no respect for an atheist not because he doesn't believe in god, but because they act arrogant know it all, yet they know as much as a 5 year old.

I have known and debated many atheist, Indians and Americans, when you provide them proof for their diminutive arguments they look at you like a deer in headlights,

because their knowledge comes from reading quotes and one liners there is no fathomage in their knowledge.

You didn't complete your sentence. Atheism is an absence of Belief. I am not an atheist but I have defended their position better than most atheist have. I have also defended the theists position. There is NO amount of proof you can provide to a skeptic that a God exists. In my opinion a God should never be proven. You should not even attempt this. A Strong skeptic will see right through your "Evidence". The best way is to tackle the subject in a philosophical manner. However since I love such discussions I have switched sides to ascertain how good I can be on either side of the coin. I'll tell you what, in my experience atheists have nothing to lose. Belief is ALWAYS going to be the weakest link in a theist's arsenal. Therefore is in the interest of bringing logic and coherency in a theist's belief system that he/she interpret it analytically and philosophically.

I do not perceive Atheists as Arrogant know it all. Although they may seem that way because of their refusal to buy what you are selling. I absolutely enjoy talking to them. I learn a lot from them. Chiefly the fact that a belief is going to be your greatest strength and your greatest weakness. Atheists also don't get angry if you say they are wrong. They'll just ask you to prove them. Where you will get stuck. Because you can't prove them wrong. At the very best you can do is show them how much data they are missing. But that's it.

One mistake most theists do is they ask the other party to Prove them wrong by proving that their God does not exist. The rules of coherency dictate that you cannot prove something in the negative. If someone declares there is a God then the burden of proof is on their shoulders to prove such a God exists. Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence.

 

[NasNY]

You didn't complete your sentence. Atheism is an absence of Belief. I am not an atheist but I have defended their position better than most atheist have. I have also defended the theists position. There is NO amount of proof you can provide to a skeptic that a God exists. In my opinion a God should never be proven. You should not even attempt this. A Strong skeptic will see right through your "Evidence". The best way is to tackle the subject in a philosophical manner. However since I love such discussions I have switched sides to ascertain how good I can be on either side of the coin. I'll tell you what, in my experience atheists have nothing to lose. Belief is ALWAYS going to be the weakest link in a theist's arsenal. Therefore is in the interest of bringing logic and coherency in a theist's belief system that he/she interpret it analytically and philosophically.

I do not perceive Atheists as Arrogant know it all. Although they may seem that way because of their refusal to buy what you are selling. I absolutely enjoy talking to them. I learn a lot from them. Chiefly the fact that a belief is going to be your greatest strength and your greatest weakness. Atheists also don't get angry if you say they are wrong. They'll just ask you to prove them. Where you will get stuck. Because you can't prove them wrong. At the very best you can do is show them how much data they are missing. But that's it.

One mistake most theists do is they ask the other party to Prove them wrong by proving that their God does not exist. The rules of coherency dictate that you cannot prove something in the negative. If someone declares there is a God then the burden of proof is on their shoulders to prove such a God exists. Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence.

I disagree with most of what you wrote about atheist, simply because YOUR definition of an atheist doesn't fit with views of richard dawkins, christopher hitchens and company.

If some one doesn't believe is perfectly fine with me, i could care less, if they ask me a question i will answer it and i could care less if they agree or not,

i am not out to convert anyone in my way of thinking.

What i dislike is the new atheist, i call them evangelical atheist to their face.

They started out around 2005 with some books written which told them no longer be quiet on the sidelines create market doubt in everyone using all type of technologies and media.

Hence the new definition of skepticism came about.

So anything in print or electronic media you see in a very subtle way of evangelical atheism.

Because its not enough for them to not believe in anything, they want to be proactive and want you to be part of their way of thinking.

They ridicule religion with one liners which they have memorized. I have heard it over and over again, over the years.

It is amazing that when they think they are being really clever, i show them the question and answer in the Quran written 1400 hundred years ago.

I am a very conservative Muslim, but i am ok with anyone being a Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, or atheist. I consider all them good people, if they are inquisitive about Islam i answer their questions, if they don't get it, its perfectly fine with me. Go live your life and be whomever they wish to be.

All i am saying is creating skepticism in a young generations who are not aware of the mind games being played with them. Has an agenda behind it.

Look up the Discovery institute, and authors i mentioned above their books openly call for war against the belief in god. Its not a conspiracy theory its all out in the open.

They know Christianity has failed, judaism is too little to make a diffidence. Hinduism is not a problem because as Hindus become educated they leave their religion. ISLAM is target number one, the belief of a Muslim is the hardest to break, and more westerns are joining ISLAM than any other religion.

Their only method against ISlAM is to degrade the moral behavior of the younger generation of Muslims, to have them fall so far down so they feel they are not part of the religion and its easier to walk away.

Everything you see on Pakistani TV is not a hidden agenda conspiracy, its open agenda reality.

I have read your comments here and there, i understand you are not the most conservative, that's ok in my book, but don't expect everyone to be like you.

I already wrote more than i wanted. I am out .

 

[Sadia Hashmi]

All religion require unqualified faith. But the institution of Science makes skepticism a virtue.

unqualified faith?????
when there is faith then there is only faith.

 

[Sadia Hashmi]

well, this this is interesting discussion...keep it up.

 

[Sadia Hashmi]

I disagree with most of what you wrote about atheist, simply because YOUR definition of an atheist doesn't fit with views of richard dawkins, christopher hitchens and company.

If some one doesn't believe is perfectly fine with me, i could care less, if they ask me a question i will answer it and i could care less if they agree or not,

i am not out to convert anyone in my way of thinking.

What i dislike is the new atheist, i call them evangelical atheist to their face.

They started out around 2005 with some books written which told them no longer be quiet on the sidelines create market doubt in everyone using all type of technologies and media.

Hence the new definition of skepticism came about.

So anything in print or electronic media you see in a very subtle way of evangelical atheism.

Because its not enough for them to not believe in anything, they want to be proactive and want you to be part of their way of thinking.

They ridicule religion with one liners which they have memorized. I have heard it over and over again, over the years.

It is amazing that when they think they are being really clever, i show them the question and answer in the Quran written 1400 hundred years ago.

I am a very conservative Muslim, but i am ok with anyone being a Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, or atheist. I consider all them good people, if they are inquisitive about Islam i answer their questions, if they don't get it, its perfectly fine with me. Go live your life and be whomever they wish to be.

All i am saying is creating skepticism in a young generations who are not aware of the mind games being played with them. Has an agenda behind it.

Look up the Discovery institute, and authors i mentioned above their books openly call for war against the belief in god. Its not a conspiracy theory its all out in the open.

They know Christianity has failed, judaism is too little to make a diffidence. Hinduism is not a problem because as Hindus become educated they leave their religion. ISLAM is target number one, the belief of a Muslim is the hardest to break, and more westerns are joining ISLAM than any other religion.

Their only method against ISlAM is to degrade the moral behavior of the younger generation of Muslims, to have them fall so far down so they feel they are not part of the religion and its easier to walk away.

Everything you see on Pakistani TV is not a hidden agenda conspiracy, its open agenda reality.

I have read your comments here and there, i understand you are not the most conservative, that's ok in my book, but don't expect everyone to be like you.

I already wrote more than i wanted. I am out .

u elaborate nicely but dont b rigid. keep some space.... i think religion cant b failed every religion keeps a history,,, conspiracy theory works but only in da minds of weak people. religious,social,sipirtual,philosophical,scientific grounds are for the fittest.
i guess u read QURAN well,,still u hav conservative views... amazing.

 

[lurker]

The Word Muslim means a "Believer". What do you think is better, A Believer or someone who Knows? For example, the Angel Gabriel does not need to believe anything, He Knows. Knowledge is better than belief. Had Islam ALL the answers and proofs then you would have "KNOWN" rather than Believed. You don't believe 1+1=2, you KNOW it does.

I compartmentalize things in my mind. Perhaps this is why I can separate Islam at will from my thought processes. I know the weakness of ALL religion. Doubt is a pain too lonely to know that Faith is it's twin brother.