Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Javed Ghamidi rips him apart

indigo

Siasat.pk - Blogger
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

Brilliant reply, jahil mullah kabhi nahi samjhae ga.
 
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LeezaKhan

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

Brilliant explanation by Dr Ghamdi; he's the one who deserves to be an Aalim.... not the typical mullahs.
 

AakhirKab

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

The style of Mr. Ghamdi and selection of words to make a complicated issue so simple to understand for an ordinary person is awesome.

But end of the day, this all makes sense to only those people who really want to understand.
 

I Love Muhammad (PBUH)

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

Ghamdi sahib has beautiful style of conveying his message . Its simple and peaceful. You do not need to shout or use harsh language to put you point across.
 

Hunain Khalid

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Islamic Teachings and Women Protection Bill by Javed Ghamidi


بات یہ ہے کہ بات کرنے والے کی بات پر بات کی جائے نہ کہ بات کرنے والے پر بات کی جائے ورنہ بات بڑھ جائے گی_

:)​
 

armani

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Islamic Teachings and Women Protection Bill by Javed Ghamidi

Ghamdi Sahib :jazak::jazak::jazak: !
 

NohmnAli

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

As always, simple and logical. Ghamidi sahb is a good teacher. I haven't seen such an intelligent religious scholar.
 

free_thinker

Councller (250+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

Ghamidi is typical Muslim apologist, picking and choosing what suits his narrative (he, funnily enough, also thinks earthquakes are warnings from god, probably he hasn't picked up a book about Geology in his whole life).

The problem with most muslims is that they do not read the very book they do not miss any chance to upbeat about. For anyone interesting to find out what Quran says about this, should only take couple of minutes to google search it.

http://www.quran.com/4/34

[h=2]Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.[/h]
[h=2]مرد عورتوں پر مسلط وحاکم ہیں اس لئے کہ خدا نے بعض کو بعض سے افضل بنایا ہے اور اس لئے بھی کہ مرد اپنا مال خرچ کرتے ہیں تو جو نیک بیبیاں ہیں وہ مردوں کے حکم پر چلتی ہیں اور ان کے پیٹھ پیچھے خدا کی حفاظت میں (مال وآبرو کی) خبرداری کرتی ہیں اور جن عورتوں کی نسبت تمہیں معلوم ہو کہ سرکشی (اور بدخوئی) کرنے لگی ہیں تو (پہلے) ان کو (زبانی) سمجھاؤ (اگر نہ سمجھیں تو) پھر ان کے ساتھ سونا ترک کردو اگر اس پر بھی باز نہ آئیں تو زدوکوب کرو اور اگر فرمانبردار ہوجائیں تو پھر ان کو ایذا دینے کا کوئی بہانہ مت ڈھونڈو بےشک خدا سب سے اعلیٰ (اور) جلیل القدر ہے[/h]

Any authentic translation and tafseer about this verse would show the same thing.
I challenge anyone to show me a verse in Quran, where women are instructed to beat their men if they do not listen to them.

It is not a rocket science to figure out Quran is biased towards one gender. In fact their is a hadith about women complaining to Muhammad about god never addressing them in the Quran.

People like Ghamidi would come up with very sophisticated (yet shallow) reasoning as to why has there never been a woman Prophet. If god made women, and for some reason, women are not capable of being Prophet, is it women's fault or god's? Couldn't god just fix the women and give them equal representation? And I say fix, not because I think there is anything wrong with them (they are perfect they way they are), but because apparently god thinks so.
 

free_thinker

Councller (250+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

For anyone interested in educating oneself as to when is it fine to beat the wives in Quran, here is a very reputable Tafsir of Ibn Khatir about it.

Source
http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsir Ibn Kathir/004 Nisa.htm#الرِّجَالُ

Allah said,
الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاء ...
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, meaning, the man is responsible for the woman, and he is her maintainer, caretaker and leader who disciplines her if she deviates.


because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, meaning, because men excel over women and are better than them for certain tasks. This is why Prophethood was exclusive of men, as well as other important positions of leadership. The Prophet said, لَنْ يُفْلِحَ قَوْمٌ وَلَّوْا أَمْرَهُمُ امْرَأَة People who appoint a woman to be their leader, will never achieve success.
Al-Bukhari recorded this Hadith.


Such is the case with appointing women as judges or on other positions of leadership.

... وَبِمَا أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ ...
and because they spend from their means.
meaning the dowry, expenditures and various expenses that Allah ordained in His Book and the Sunnah of His Messenger for men to spend on women. For these reasons it is suitable that he is appointed her maintainer, just as Allah said, وَلِلرِّجَالِ عَلَيْهِنَّ دَرَجَةٌ (But men have a degree (of responsibility) over them). (2:228)



Allah said,
... فَالصَّالِحَاتُ ...
Therefore, the righteous (women),
... قَانِتَاتٌ ...
are Qanitat, obedient to their husbands, as Ibn Abbas and others stated.
... حَافِظَاتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ ...
and guard in the husband's absence, As-Suddi and others said that; it means she protects her honor and her husband's property when he is absent. and Allah's statement,
... بِمَا حَفِظَ اللّهُ ...
what Allah orders them to guard. means, the protected (husband) is the one whom Allah protects. Ibn Jarir recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said, خَيْرُ النِّسَاءِ امْرَأَةٌ إِذَا نَظَرْتَ إِلَيْهَا سَرَّتْكَ، وَإِذَا أَمَرْتَهَا أَطَاعَتْكَ، وَإِذَا غِبْتَ عَنْهَا حَفِظَتْكَ فِي نَفْسِهَا وَمَالِك The best women is she who when you look at her, she pleases you, when you command her she obeys you, and when you are absent, she protects her honor and your property. Then, the Messenger of Allah recited the Ayah, الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاء (Men are the protectors and maintainers of women), until its end. Imam Ahmad recorded that Abdur-Rahman bin 'Awf said that the Messenger of Allah said, إِذَا صَلَّتِ الْمَرْأَةُ خَمْسَهَا، وَصَامَتْ شَهْرَهَا، وَحَفِظَتْ فَرْجَهَا، وَأَطَاعَتْ زَوْجَهَا، قِيلَ لَهَا: ادْخُلِي الْجَنَّةَ مِنْ أَيِّ الْأَبْوَابِ شِئْت If the woman prayed her five daily prayers, fasted her month, protected her chastity and obeyed her husband, she will be told, 'Enter Paradise from any of its doors you wish.'



Allah said,
... وَاللاَّتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ ...
As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, meaning, the woman from whom you see ill conduct with her husband, such as when she acts as if she is above her husband, disobeys him, ignores him, dislikes him, and so forth. When these signs appear in a woman, her husband should advise her and remind her of Allah's torment if she disobeys him. Indeed, Allah ordered the wife to obey her husband and prohibited her from disobeying him, because of the enormity of his rights and all that he does for her. The Messenger of Allah said, لَوْ كُنْتُ آمِرًا أَحَدًا أَنْ يَسْجُدَ لِأَحَدٍ، لَأَمَرْتُ الْمَرْأَةَ أَنْ تَسْجُدَ لِزَوْجِهَا، مِنْ عِظَمِ حَقِّهِ عَلَيْهَا If I were to command anyone to prostrate before anyone, I would have commanded the wife to prostrate before her husband, because of the enormity of his right upon her. Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said, إِذَا دَعَا الرَّجُلُ امْرَأَتَهُ إِلى فِرَاشِهِ فَأَبَتْ عَلَيْهِ، لَعَنَتْهَا الْمَلَائِكَةُ حَتَّى تُصْبِح If the man asks his wife to come to his bed and she declines, the angels will keep cursing her until the morning. Muslim recorded it with the wording, إِذَا بَاتَتِ الْمَرْأَةُ هَاجِرَةً فِرَاشَ زَوْجِهَا، لَعَنَتْهَا الْمَلَائِكَةُ حَتَّى تُصْبِح If the wife goes to sleep while ignoring her husband's bed, the angels will keep cursing her until the morning. This is why Allah said,
... وَاللاَّتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ ...
As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them (first). Allah's statement,
... وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ ...
abandon them in their beds, Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn Abbas said, "The abandonment refers to not having intercourse with her, to lie on her bed with his back to her.'' Several others said similarly. As-Suddi, Ad-Dahhak, Ikrimah, and Ibn Abbas, in another narration, added, "Not to speak with her or talk to her.'' The Sunan and Musnad compilers recorded that Muawiyah bin Haydah Al-Qushayri said, "O Allah's Messenger! What is the right that the wife of one of us has on him'' The Prophet said,


أَنْ تُطْعِمَهَا إِذَا طَعِمْتَ، وَتَكْسُوَهَا إِذَا اكْتَسَيْتَ، وَلَا تَضْرِبِ الْوَجْهَ، وَلَا تُقَبِّحْ، وَلَا تَهْجُرْ إِلَّا فِي الْبَيْت
To feed her when you eat, cloth her when you buy clothes for yourself, refrain from striking her face or cursing her, and to not abandon her, except in the house. Allah's statement,
... وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ ...
beat them,

means, if advice and ignoring her in the bed do not produce the desired results, you are allowed to discipline the wife, without severe beating. Muslim recorded that Jabir said that during the Farewell Hajj, the Prophet said;


وَاتَّقُوا اللهَ فِي النِّسَاءِ، فَإِنَّهُنَّ عِنْدَكُمْ عَوَانٍ، وَلَكُمْ عَلَيْهِنَّ أَنْ لَا يُوطِئْنَ فُرُشَكُمْ أَحَدًا تَكْرَهُونَهُ،فَإِنْ فَعَلْنَ ذَلِكَ فَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ ضَرْبًا غَيْرَ مُبَرِحٍ، وَلَهُنَّ عَلَيْكُمْ رِزْقُهُنَّ وَكِسْوَتُهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوف Fear Allah regarding women, for they are your assistants. You have the right on them that they do not allow any person whom you dislike to step on your mat. However, if they do that, you are allowed to discipline them lightly. They have a right on you that you provide them with their provision and clothes, in a reasonable manner.
Ibn Abbas and several others said that;

the Ayah refers to a beating that is not violent.

Al-Hasan Al-Basri said that;

it means, a beating that is not severe.



Allah said,
... فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلاَ تَبْغُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلاً ...
but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance), meaning, when the wife obeys her husband in all that Allah has allowed, then no means of annoyance from the husband are allowed against his wife. Therefore, in this case, the husband does not have the right to beat her or shun her bed.
Allah's statement,
... إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا ﴿٣٤﴾
Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great. reminds men that if they transgress against their wives without justification, then Allah, the Ever Most High, Most Great, is their Protector, and He will exert revenge on those who transgress against their wives and deal with them unjustly.






 

amigo

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

Surah Nisa; Ayat 34:

الرجال قوامون على النساء بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض وبما انفقوا من اموالهم فالصالحات قانتات حافظات للغيب بما حفظ الله واللاتي تخافون نشوزهن فعظوهن واهجروهن في المضاجع واضربوهن فان اطعنكم فلا تبغوا عليهن سبيلا ان الله كان عليا كبيرا

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.



According to this ayat : If Husband finds wife not (guarding in [the husband's] absence or for those wives from whom he fears arrogance) in simple words having an affair
1) He should advise her.
2) Should forsake her in bed.
3) Even then if she is still promiscuous and is hell bound on destroying family then still he should strike her.

Ghamdi and even the anchor are replying to a statement that is out of context. Everyone knows that without any reason you cannot even touch the other person. Now, if a husband without any reason hits his wife there should be a committee at local level comprising elders and people both men and woman of good repute and understanding which should solve the matter. If it fails and husband keeps on doing it the matter should be reported to police.

Now, the practical after effects of this bill would be that if the cheating wife is caught husband would never complain or discuss the matter with his wife he would give money to police hire and assassin and simply kill her.

PS : My first post in this forum was quoting this ayat(Surah Nisa:34) and my post was deleted(not approved) by siasat.pk forum mod. Second post related to it was also deleted(not approved).
 
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Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

quran per baat karne se pehle logoon ko bahot kuchh soch sakne aur samajh sakne ki ehliyat ki zaroorat hai. For example see HERE, HERE and HERE.
 

maqson

Councller (250+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

عورت پر تشدد کو اسلامی کہنے والے ان سوالات کا جواب دیں گے.
١ کیا جب بی کوئی خاوند اپنی بیوی پر تشدد کرے تو لازمی بیوی نے کوئی غیر اسلامی حرکت کی ہو گی وہی اس کی ذمہ دار ہو گی.
٢ اگر آپ کی بیٹی یا بہن پر ایسے تشدد ہو تو آپ اپنی بہن یا بیٹی کے خاوند کی یہ بات مان لو گے کہ غیر اسلامی حرکت پر اس نے تشدد کیا ہے.
 

amigo

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

عورت پر تشدد کو اسلامی کہنے والے ان سوالات کا جواب دیں گے.
١ کیا جب بی کوئی خاوند اپنی بیوی پر تشدد کرے تو لازمی بیوی نے کوئی غیر اسلامی حرکت کی ہو گی وہی اس کی ذمہ دار ہو گی.
٢ اگر آپ کی بیٹی یا بہن پر ایسے تشدد ہو تو آپ اپنی بہن یا بیٹی کے خاوند کی یہ بات مان لو گے کہ غیر اسلامی حرکت پر اس نے تشدد کیا ہے.

اگر میری بہن یہ بیٹی وو کام کرے جو درج ذیل آیت میں ہو تو اسے اس آیات کے مطابق پہلے شمجھانا اور اخر میں مارنا درست ہو گا. کیونکے عورت بلکل گھر توڑنے پر تلی ہو تو ایسا ہی ہونا چاہیے


Surah Nisa; Ayat 34:

الرجال قوامون على النساء بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض وبما انفقوا من اموالهم فالصالحات قانتات حافظات للغيب بما حفظ الله واللاتي تخافون نشوزهن فعظوهن واهجروهن في المضاجع واضربوهن فان اطعنكم فلا تبغوا عليهن سبيلا ان الله كان عليا كبيرا

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.



According to this ayat : If Husband finds wife not (guarding in [the husband's] absence or for those wives from whom he fears arrogance) in simple words having an affair
1) He should advise her.
2) Should forsake her in bed.
3) Even then if she is still promiscuous and is hell bound on destroying family then still he should strike her.



. homosexualityاس طرح اگرچہ قرآن میں نہیں لکھا مگر اگر میرا بیٹا بوہت غلط اور غیر اخلاقی کام جسے
میں ہو تو اس کو پہلے آرام سے اور اخر میں سختی سے شمجایا جاے اگر مارنا پیرا تو مار سے .
 

amigo

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart


@ 1:35 it might be in the Egyptian law and even the Pakistani law but is no where in Quran. I am not sure about Hadith; if someone knows about any hadith making it absolutely necessary for the first wife to know or seek permission about husband second marriage kindly quote.

Also, do remember surah tehreem. So, if Allah says anything is halal even Propet Muhammad pbuh cannot go against it even under his wife's pressure..
 
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Liberal 000

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

اگر میری بہن یہ بیٹی وو کام کرے جو درج ذیل آیت میں ہو تو اسے اس آیات کے مطابق پہلے شمجھانا اور اخر میں مارنا درست ہو گا. کیونکے عورت بلکل گھر توڑنے پر تلی ہو تو ایسا ہی ہونا چاہیے


Surah Nisa; Ayat 34:

الرجال قوامون على النساء بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض وبما انفقوا من اموالهم فالصالحات قانتات حافظات للغيب بما حفظ الله واللاتي تخافون نشوزهن فعظوهن واهجروهن في المضاجع واضربوهن فان اطعنكم فلا تبغوا عليهن سبيلا ان الله كان عليا كبيرا

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.



According to this ayat : If Husband finds wife not (guarding in [the husband's] absence or for those wives from whom he fears arrogance) in simple words having an affair
1) He should advise her.
2) Should forsake her in bed.
3) Even then if she is still promiscuous and is hell bound on destroying family then still he should strike her.



. homosexualityاس طرح اگرچہ قرآن میں نہیں لکھا مگر اگر میرا بیٹا بوہت غلط اور غیر اخلاقی کام جسے
میں ہو تو اس کو پہلے آرام سے اور اخر میں سختی سے شمجایا جاے اگر مارنا پیرا تو مار سے .

Wrong explanation!

The Aya is not about adultery or sexual behavior (and there are other punishments for such crimes)

This Aya is about obedience and guarding of the Husband wealth (money, children and Islamic family values)

A question:
How can you stop your wife from having an Affair by not sharing bed with her ? It will even encourage her and will justify her affair!
 

amigo

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Sajid Mir suggests Men can beat his wife, Ghamidi rips him apart

Wrong explanation!

The Aya is not about adultery or sexual behavior (and there are other punishments for such crimes)

"Guarding in Husbands absence". when confronted shows "arrogance" it is self explanatory.
Islam is not that harsh, it has given more rights to women than in any religion. Btw if your wife or sister takes your money frequently you are not allowed to beat her. The last that you can do is hide the money tell her nicely not to spend beyond the budget. But if she is hell bent on buying Louis Vuitton than simply get her card blocked or only transfer reasonable amount to her account.
Btw taking some amount of money without husband's permission is allowed. Some husbands are also miser.

"Guarding in Husbands absence" She should not allow anyone inside the house in his absence whom the husband dislikes i.e; male cousins or any other male etc.

The Aya is not about adultery or sexual behavior (and there are other punishments for such crimes)
The ayats that you are referring to are when a woman is openly lewd and caught with witnesses. She(and the man) can be stoned to death or simply lashed.
If she is just talking to some male other than her husband in a lewd manner you cannot put hadh on her it is against Islam. Thanks to Mullahs they just wanna kill woman for just talking to anyone.
As stated first you should tell her then forsake her in bed in the end beat her.

This Aya is about obedience and guarding of the Husband wealth (money, children and Islamic family values)

Its a serious matter not a joke, kindly refrain from making Ayat a joke. Also, she doesn't need to guard your money or children. With regards to Islamic family values "Yes".

A question:
How can you stop your wife from having an Affair by not sharing bed with her ? It will even encourage her and will justify her affair!
Even a piercing glance is enough; it is just to give her warning. The next step beat her would be the final warning. The last is what you stated that there are other punishments that is when she is caught stone to death and lashing but that requires witnesses.

So if your wife takes your 2000Rs you should not beat her or abandon her. It is wrong interpretation and not allowed. If you do and your wife complains to police and police puts you in jail that would also be wrong because this issue should be solved by your elders.

Got it.
 

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