Point Blank - 31st may 2010 - Alama Ibtasam Ilahi Zaheer, Kia Londi Rekhna Jaaiz hai ?????

N

new_world

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Luqman is stupid ancor. Why he is looking for the topic that Londi is acceptable, he can also say Gulam is acceptibale or not. He is really stupid person
 
W

waleedhussain

Councller (250+ posts)
its clearly written in Quran... jaiz hai .... question shall not be JAAYZ hai ya nahi ... question should be HOW AND WHY ... and true explanation from ahadeeth that would let people know that how effective it was as a REFORM in those societies / in those medievil and dark ages WHERE IF OTHERWISE WUT WAS BRUTALLY AND SHAMEFULLY DONE TO THE WOMEN OF LAND OCCUPIED OR CAPTURED during war.... this system was the most modern REFORM and HUMAN RIGHTS compatible in that dark era of the world ...
 
B

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Over such Ulema Allah Ka Azab, specially Moulvi Zaheer who only remembered quranic verse from Surat Momaynoon, but forget this clear
verse wherein it is crystal clearly stated that "Make Nikkah with your Slave Girls(Loondi):
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/ps05/ch05.html#25

Allah kee laanaat in par who wish to hide Quran and lure lurk their desires.
 
L

leboheme

Citizen
waleedhussain said:
its clearly written in Quran... jaiz hai .... question shall not be JAAYZ hai ya nahi ... question should be HOW AND WHY ... and true explanation from ahadeeth that would let people know that how effective it was as a REFORM in those societies / in those medievil and dark ages WHERE IF OTHERWISE WUT WAS BRUTALLY AND SHAMEFULLY DONE TO THE WOMEN OF LAND OCCUPIED OR CAPTURED during war.... this system was the most modern REFORM and HUMAN RIGHTS compatible in that dark era of the world ...
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you.......in the conditions of that period Islamic teachings and directons actually aimed at minimizing or ending ghulami or related pratices.

I also believe that we asmuslims should discuss and understand these and other issues that non-muslims raise as demerits in Islam so that we can propogate the real message instead of the tainted message that the western media puts forth.

Good show Mubashir
 
patriot

patriot

Minister (2k+ posts)
Yeh hai moulvi ka islam.
Ya Allah in logoon ne tere Quran ko kia se kia banaa diya hai?
Tu ghulamoon ko azad kar raha hai aur yeh azad logoon ko ghulam banaa rahe hain.
Agar hamaare dushman bhi moulvi ke es islam par amal karna shuroo kar den tau phir kia yeh khosh honge?

The first Muslim history was written by "Imam" Tabari who died 300 years after the exalted Prophet. He wrote everything on hearsay as he admits.


IMAM TABARI'S STRANGE CONFESSION: [838-923 CE, 224-310 AH, Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Jarir / ibn Rustam at-Tabari]

I am writing this book as I hear from the narrators. If anything sounds absurd, I should not be blamed or held accountable. The responsibility of all errors or blunders rests squarely on the shoulders of those who have narrated these stories to me. So, Tabari wrote nothing but hearsay. Tabari's Tareekhil Umam Wal Mulook (The History of Nations and Kings) popularly called "Mother of All Histories" is the first ever "History of Islam" written by 'Imam' Tabari at the junction of the third and fourth century AH. He died in 310 AH, 3 centuries after the Prophet (S). What were his sources? Not a scrap of paper! "He told me this who heard it from him who heard it from so and so," and so on. By compiling his 13 volume History and his 30 volume Exposition of the Quran under royal patronage, he became the Super Imam. The later historians until this day have persisted in following the trails of the Super Imam.


33.gif

24:33 Let those who cannot find a match keep chaste until God grants
them sufficiency out of His bounty. If any of the male and female​


servants desires a deed of emancipation, write it for them ensuring good
for them by way of rehabilitation. Give them from God's wealth that He has bestowed upon you. You shall not hinder, for worldly gains, your maidservants from guarding their chastity through marriage. If nyone forces them, then to them, after their being compelled, God will be Forgiving, Merciful.

[The Divine System will protect them and take fullcare of their mental and physical development. 4:5-6, 53:38]​

​
 
B

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
This is a horror to watch this programe wherein these half-learned so-called Ulema have do not courage to quote rightly Quran-ul-Huda. The question of the anchor is "Is it permissible to have relations with Loondi without Nikah or wedding". The Ulema did not have courage to say NO, NO, NO. The verse clearly states that make "Nikkah with your lady slaves". These Ulema should know what is difference between an independent lady which is called "Mushina" and a "slave Girl". But the condition of Nikkah is for both of them. These Ulemas should bear in mind the consequences of those who hide what has been revealed in Quran. Permit me to quote"
"on such there is laanat(curse) of Allah, the Angels and all people together", unless they make a Tooba and make it plain what is described in Quran, otherwise the Hell is waiting for them.


This shows nothing by machooism of Man having lust to have as many as possible, and the tragedy is that they wish to justify it also through religion. Astagfarullah.
 
mehwish_ali

mehwish_ali

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
babadeena said:
Over such Ulema Allah Ka Azab, specially Moulvi Zaheer who only remembered quranic verse from Surat Momaynoon, but forget this clear
verse wherein it is crystal clearly stated that "Make Nikkah with your Slave Girls(Loondi):
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/ps05/ch05.html#25

Allah kee laanaat in par who wish to hide Quran and lure lurk their desires.
Click to expand...

Dear brother,

I am afraid that you are making a mistake here by quoting this verse and not understanding it's meaning.

And I am afraid you have some what wrongfully abused this Alaim Ibtesam Ilahi Zaheer on this subject.


Difference between marrying (doing NIKAH) with slave woman of other Person VS Having sexual intercourse with one's own slave woman

This verse of Surah Nisa is only talking about a Person (free), who:

1. Does not have the means to do Nikah with Free Woman

2. And unable to control his sexual desires and he fears to indulge in SIN otherwise.

3. Such FREE Muslim is thus although allowed to do "NIKAH" with slave woman of other Person (and he gives the HAQ MEHR amount to money to the owner of that slave woman), but such type of Nikah is not encouraged by Allah (in this same verse Allah is telling that avoiding such Nikah is better thing)

Remaining, if a Person has a slave woman then:

1. He could have sexual intercourse with her without any Nikah.

2. He could also make his slave girl HALAL for his father or brother (or if a Free woman has a slave girl, then she could make her HALAL for her husband)


Brother Babadeena,

I would request you and advise you to please have a detailed study of this case and all the doubts will be cleared. Insha-Allah.

Moreover, one brother (member) above wrote a beautiful reply that one has to understand first the situation of that ERA and then make any objections upon Islamic concept of slavery. Really, if once first understand the conditions, then he will be convinced that it was the ONLY way to deal with this problem of slavery.


Moreover, a member has made some serious allegations against Imam Tabari. You must know many of his historic narrations are also found in the HADITH Books too. And Imam Bukhari also came at same time. I don't know exactly if this member only rejects the Islamic History by Tabari, or also the Islamic Hadith by Imam Bukhari?

By the way, it was unjust by this member to start criticizing Imam Tabari for this Issue of Slavery, as this issue of slavery is found in all Hadith Books, Fiqh Books and none in 1400 years history of Islam ever denied it. But in this century we have people who are denying not only History but each and every thing including hadith.
 
azrana

azrana

MPA (400+ posts)
arey bhai, molvi log please please, luqman sb, khuda ka khauf khain, na woh jangain hain, na us tarah koi qabool karta hey,

main muaffi chahta hoon agar kissi ko bura lagey,

politician key saath tammam molvion ko bhi, goli maroo
 
swisspak

swisspak

Siasat.pk - Blogger
Mubashir Lucman is a stupid anchor, he asks the same question again and again. Its a dodgy issue and has different views from different Ulemas. lately a saudi mufti issued a new fatwa mentioning that laundi is legally allowed when u r travelling somewhere and just for that visit. Although this practice is rarely undertaken but still this issue needs clarification of Ulemas maybe with the help of an Ijmaa. I think discussing it here or on tv channels in not the right forum as many of us dont understand the arguments given by our mullahs without in depth knowledge.
 
biomat

biomat

Minister (2k+ posts)
Salam. I agree to brother swisspak. If luqman sahab really wants to spread knowledge of Islam, then he should do this program regularly on same topic until it reaches some conclusion. Also include different Ulemas (who have in depth knowledge of this topic).. dont just start something & leave it unsettled thus making normal muslim, who dont have time to search, ATHEIST..
Normal muslim doesnot know about GHUSAL KAY FARAIZ, WAZOO KAY FARAIZ, NAMAAZ KAY MASAIL, WAZOO KAY MASAIL & GHUSAL KAY FARAIZ, many more like this.. So why not luqman sahab starts a program like DEEN SHOW.. Start from basic points, take them to conclusion, then go to these sensitive issue. I am not saying that these issues should not be discussed. But there is always a forum for everything, & it depends upon what your audience is..
If on one side many people blame MAULVIS for making disputed among muslims, then what u say about Luqman sahab having this program.
If u compare this with AMIR LIAQUAT way of programming, he started doing similar program by inviting ulemas from different sect, but again on some points all differ, having their own logic.. So its not fault of ISLAM, it is our lack of knowledge that we donot research on it. No engineer, doctor gets specialization in Islam, Fiqah, Hadeeth & Quran or even Arabic.. On the other hand Maulanas are not getting high end education.. So we need to bridge this gap.. Sorry if my post doesnot make sense.. I am searching for this topic in detail, if it finishes in time, insha ALLAH i will share with you guys.. There always a logical way to explain ALLAH instructions in Holy Quran.. WALLAH ALAM. Again apologize if doesnot make any sense or i have hurt any one..
 
patriot

patriot

Minister (2k+ posts)
mehwish_ali said:
Dear brother,
......................
.............................


Moreover, a member has made some serious allegations against Imam Tabari. You must know many of his historic narrations are also found in the HADITH Books too. And Imam Bukhari also came at same time. I don't know exactly if this member only rejects the Islamic History by Tabari, or also the Islamic Hadith by Imam Bukhari?

By the way, it was unjust by this member to start criticizing Imam Tabari for this Issue of Slavery, as this issue of slavery is found in all Hadith Books, Fiqh Books and none in 1400 years history of Islam ever denied it. But in this century we have people who are denying not only History but each and every thing including hadith.
Click to expand...

When we talk about The Deen Al-Islam for me Quran has first priority, Quran is Furqan, the book of Allah. If Quran says that prisoners must not be slaves, we must not make them slaves. No if and buts.
What anyone else says, for me it has no meaning.
No matter whether it is "Imam" Tabri or any other "Imam". If they say something which is against Quran, ie. against Allah, then it is unacceptable to me.
Now you can call me munkar- e- Hadith or kafir, I do not care.

Here's what Allah T'ala says about POWs:

4.gif


47:4 If you meet the disbelievers in battle, strike at their command
centers, until you have subdued them, then, bind them firmly. And
thereafter, there must be an act of kindness or ransom when the battle
lays down its weapons. If God willed, He could punish them Himself, but
that He may let you test one by means of another (as to which peoples
remains vigilant.) As for those who are slain in the way of God, He does​

not render their actions vain.

[8:37, 38:40. Free the captives as an act of kindness or ransom, such as
in exchange for your men in their captivity. There is no third option.​


Fadharb ar-riqaab
​
is usually rendered as smite their necks. A little​


contemplation, however, makes it plain that in a battle of swords and
arrows no commander would order his soldiers to aim for the necks
alone. Therefore, the stated term has been used idiomatically, indicating
knocking out the command centers. It is interesting to note that even in
todays encounters with high technology this principle is given a top​
​

priority]​

Salaam.​
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taul

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
 
B

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Brother Babadeena,

I would request you and advise you to please have a detailed study of this case and all the doubts will be cleared. Insha-Allah.
Click to expand...

Miss Mewish Ali,
I do not know what you mean! Mine concept is very clear on the matter and totally based on Quran. I do not agree at all with these Ulemas who say that "One can have se*ual relations with a slave girl without Nikah". There is no such provision in Quran about that. And what makes me more angry that these Ulemas pick and choose verses from Quran and apply them according to their own taste. One funniest thing which I notice that they give references of the things which were about 1400 years ago, take into consideration those circumstances and wish to apply them in the present scenario wherein all together the circumstances and ambience is totally different.

Therefore, I stick to my position.
 
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