Our expected vile response betrays our decline in culture and civility...

[desan]

 

[desan]

Surprised, TLP is sitting quietly...

Maybe because the whole Muslim world is starting to behave like Khadim Rizvi.

 

[desan]

This is the problem with moderate Muslim: Cherrypicking, you highlight all the good and rosy stories and hadith and ignore or reject and the violent and barbaric ones.

Extremists on the other hand don't cherry pick, they do exactly what the books are telling them and that show ideologies like ISIS are formed.

This hypocrisy is much more blatant and prevalent in the so called civilized world!!!

 

[Vitamin_C]

How so?

This hypocrisy is much more blatant and prevalent in the so called civilized world!!!

 

[desan]

How so?

Muted response to whats happening in Palestine and India, overthrowing of democratically elected governments, destabilization of ME by waging wars on false pretense, fueling extremism through overt and covert actions, and the list goes on...

 

[Vitamin_C]

None of that justifies beheading of innocent people in streets and in Churches.

Extremism is one side of the problem. Your attitudes towards extremism is another problem.

The same way when rape happens in India, people say yeah but its because they dress like that.

There are no ifs and buts if something violent happens, talk about that, don't drag your ifs and buts and laundry list into the discussion because that attitude is half of the problem in our society.

If you want to discuss American imperialism then you can open a thread on it and discuss it there, but its wrong attitude to use that as a justification or to add ifs and buts to an unfortunate incident.

It is what it is, there is no need for judgement to justify an unfortunate event, whether its a rape happening in India or Pakistan or beheadings happening in France.

Terrorism is as much a problem in Pakistan as it is in France, Pakistan has suffered more from it than any other country, what does your laundry list have to do with it?

Muted response to whats happening in Palestine and India, overthrowing of democratically elected governments, destabilization of ME by waging wars on false pretense, fueling extremism through overt and covert actions, and the list goes on...

 

[desan]

None of that justifies beheading of innocent people in streets and in Churches.

Extremism is one side of the problem. Your attitudes towards extremism is another problem.

The same way when rape happens in India, people say yeah but its because they dress like that.

There are no ifs and buts if something violent happens, talk about that, don't drag your ifs and buts and laundry list into the discussion because that attitude is half of the problem in our society.

That is the exact issue...

We are behaving like the Christian Church behaved during the dark ages!!!

 

[باس از باس]

This is the problem with moderate Muslim: Cherrypicking, you highlight all the good and rosy stories (many of which are false and made up) and hadith and ignore or reject and the violent and barbaric ones. Basically creating a fictional Muhammad that never existed.

Extremists on the other hand don't cherry pick, they do exactly what the books are telling them and thats how ideologies like ISIS are formed.

Muhammad was not a Confucius or Buddah who spent their life teaching and reflecting, he was a Ghengis Khan, he spent his life looting caravans, pillaging villages and taking their women as sex slaves.

The reason why moderate Muslims fail to understand extremism is that they are not aware of the history of the founder of their own religion. Do everyone a favor and read the prophet's biography by Ibn Kathir and learn who the real Muhammad was who these people follow rather than the fictional Muhammad you have created in your minds.

تمہارا فریڈم آف سپیچ۔۔۔ لو*ا

???

https://urdu.siasat.pk/social-media-news/2020-10-29/news-61600

ٹویٹر نےمہاتیر محمد کا ہولوکاسٹ سے متعلق ٹویٹ ڈیلیٹ کردی

 

[desan]

تمہارا فریڈم آف سپیچ۔۔۔ لو*ا

???

https://urdu.siasat.pk/social-media-news/2020-10-29/news-61600

ٹویٹر نےمہاتیر محمد کا ہولوکاسٹ سے متعلق ٹویٹ ڈیلیٹ کردی

Freedom of speech does not apply to chosen people..

PS: Same argument can be made without expletives.

 

[Vitamin_C]

And btw these values that French have adopted such as freedom of speech are not western values many other civilizations had it in their golden past such as during the Islamic Golden Age. If you read some of the books written by Muslims of that time they would be beheaded today for blasphemy.

Muslims are now living in their dark ages trying to convince French to also adopt dark age policies and then dont understand why the French are resisting. Societies do not grow without freedom of expression and this value is there to protect the most vulnerable in society. Dictators like Stalin, Genghis Khan, Erdogan, Kim Jong In etc have no need for freedom of expression.

That is the exact issue...

We are behaving like the Christian Church behaved during the dark ages!!!

 

[Hussain1967]

This is the problem with moderate Muslim: Cherrypicking, you highlight all the good and rosy stories (many of which are false and made up) and hadith and ignore or reject and the violent and barbaric ones. Basically creating a fictional Muhammad that never existed.

Extremists on the other hand don't cherry pick, they do exactly what the books are telling them and thats how ideologies like ISIS are formed.

Muhammad was not a Confucius or Buddah who spent their life teaching and reflecting, he was a Ghengis Khan, he spent his life looting caravans, pillaging villages and taking their women as sex slaves.

The reason why moderate Muslims fail to understand extremism is that they are not aware of the history of the founder of their own religion. Do everyone a favor and read the prophet's biography by Ibn Kathir and learn who the real Muhammad was who these people follow rather than the fictional Muhammad you have created in your minds.

Shut up, ashiest. You must be banned on this forum.

 

[desan]

And btw these values that French have adopted such as freedom of speech are not western values many other civilizations had it in their golden past such as during the Islamic Golden Age. If you read some of the books written by Muslims of that time they would be beheaded today for blasphemy.

Muslims are now living in their dark ages trying to convince French to also adopt dark age policies and then dont understand why the French are resisting. Societies do not grow without freedom of expression and this value is there to protect the most vulnerable in society. Dictators like Stalin, Genghis Khan, Erdogan, Kim Jong In etc have no need for freedom of expression.

These values are commendable with few exception, like they made for the "Chosen" People!!!

 

[Vitamin_C]

Freedom of speech is not absolute. Hate speech and call for violence against a certain group are not allowed under freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech does not apply to chosen people..

PS: Same argument can be made without expletives.

 

[desan]

Freedom of speech is not absolute. Hate speech and call for violence against a certain group are not allowed under freedom of speech.

Thanks for endorsing the concept of relativism!!!

 

[Vitamin_C]

If it were up to you, you would ban everyone with a different opinion. Until there is only one person left on the forum and even still your right leg will be arguing to ban your left hand from the forum because your leg disagrees with it.

Shut up, ashiest. You must be banned on this forum.

 

[Vitamin_C]

It depends on the principle you are applying. If a Neo-Nazi makes anti-semetic statements that Holocaust is a Jewish conspiracy and they control the world and banks and world etc and that they should be attacked then that is not allowed. Or if someone says burn mosques or attack Muslims, that is not allowed. But if you attack certain ideas, that is allowed.

You cannot deny freedom of speech because it hurts someone's feelings. If you apply that logic then you cannot criticize anyone including Donald Trump because it also hurts his feelings.

Among things that shouldn't get immunity from freedom of speech are people/ideas connected to power such as religion and religious authorities/figures.

Thanks for endorsing the concept of relativism!!!

 

[desan]

It depends on the principle you are applying. If a Neo-Nazi makes anti-semetic statements that Holocaust is a Jewish conspiracy and they control the world and banks and world etc and that they should be attacked then that is not allowed. Or if someone says burn mosques or attack Muslims, that is not allowed. But if you attack certain ideas, that is allowed.

You cannot deny freedom of speech because it hurts someone's feelings. If you apply that logic then you cannot criticize anyone including Donald Trump because it also hurts his feelings.

Among things that shouldn't get immunity from freedom of speech are people/ideas connected to power such as religion and religious authorities/figures.

Since the idea of absolutism is out of the way, one can quibble over what should be allowed or denied from the ambit of Freedom of Speech...

A lot depends on the power of a certain lobby.

Since muslims are quite weak in terms of political and technological power, don't expect any change anytime soon in the attitude of ruthless western imperial powers in spreading Islamophobia.

 

[desan]

If it were up to you, you would ban everyone with a different opinion. Until there is only one person left on the forum and even still your right leg will be arguing to ban your left hand from the forum because your leg disagrees with it.

Freedom of speech is not absolute, but we should stop acting like Fascist Modi next door...

 

[Vitamin_C]

No, you are dragging it in the wrong direction.

Freedom of speech doesnt depend on lobbies, you can say whatever you want against the strongest lobbies, against Zionism, against republicans and Trump, against the oil lobbies etc its all allowed.

But you are not allowed to spread hate against a group of people whether its Jews or Muslims.

The theme is ideas vs human beings. Its got nothing to do with lobbies.

West will never allow certain religions to receive special treatment and be immune from criticism and mockery, even Judaism is not safe from that.

But if we are talking about Islamophobia and Anti-Semitism then that is a completely different topic. I don't think anyone in West will disagree with you that lives and properties of Muslims should be safeguarded. Muslims are already protected from hate speech under freedom of Speech. Islam is an ideology like Judaism, Nazism, Bolshevism, Zionism etc and therefore it is not protected.

Here's a video of Richard Dawkins mocking and making fun of Jewish 10 commandments nothing happened to him.

Since the idea of absolutism is out of the way, one can quibble over what should be allowed or denied from the ambit of Freedom of Speech...

A lot depends on the power of a certain lobby.

Since muslims are quite weak in terms of political and technological power, don't expect any change anytime soon in the attitude of ruthless western imperial powers in spreading Islamophobia.

 

[desan]

No, you are dragging it in the wrong direction.

Freedom of speech doesnt depend on lobbies, you can say whatever you want against the strongest lobbies, against Zionism, against republicans and Trump, against the oil lobbies etc its all allowed.

But you are not allowed to spread hate against a group of people whether its Jews or Muslims.

The theme is ideas vs human beings. Its got nothing to do with lobbies.

West will never allow certain religions to receive special treatment and be immune from criticism and mockery, even Judaism is not safe from that.

One is living in Fools Paradise if he/she believes that powerful lobbies do not play a significant role in policy making in the West or anywhere else for that matter...

They would have made similar laws for Gypsies if they were also that powerful!!

We can concoct many excuses to justify any rule or legislation, as long as their is powerful lobby behind it!!!