Origins of the virus that causes COVID-19 is not a lab.

[Eyeaan]

On the origins of the virus that causes COVID-19

Unfounded speculation on the origins of the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19 has prompted the following statement from Professor Holmes, who was involved in mapping the genome of the virus.

Professor Edward Holmes.
"There is no evidence that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 in humans, originated in a laboratory in Wuhan, China.
"Coronaviruses like SARS-CoV-2 are commonly found in wildlife species and frequently jump to new hosts. This is also the most likely explanation for the origin of SARS-CoV-2.
"The closest known relative of SARS-CoV-2 is a bat virus named RaTG13, which was kept at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. There is some unfounded speculation that this virus was the origin of SARS-CoV-2. However:
(i) RaTG13 was sampled from a different province of China (Yunnan) to where COVID-19 first appeared; and
(ii) the level of genome sequence divergence between SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13 is equivalent to an average of 50 years (and at least 20 years) of evolutionary change.
"Hence, SARS-CoV-2 was not derived from RaTG13.
"In addition, we know that viruses related to SARS-CoV-2 are also found in pangolins. This suggests that other wildlife species are likely to carry relatives of SARS-CoV-2.
"In summary, the abundance, diversity and evolution of coronaviruses in wildlife strongly suggests that this virus is of natural origin. However, a greater sampling of animal species in nature, including bats from Hubei province, is needed to resolve the exact origins of SARS-CoV-2."

Professor Edward Holmes is an Australian Research Council Laureate Fellow, a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Science and a Fellow of the Royal Society in London.
He has published six academic papers this year on the genome and origin of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 in humans.

See the link to the papers on SARS-CoV-2, Genome here.

Statement from Professor Edward Holmes on the SARS-CoV-2 virus

Statement from Professor Edward Holmes, an evolutionary virologist from the University of Sydney, regarding unfounded speculation about the origins of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 in humans.

www.sydney.edu.au

 

[desan]

With today's technology, it is somewhat easy to pick out a lab made virus.

However, at the time it is distinctly possible to design a deadly virus which can be hard to tell from it's natural cousins in the wild.

With the help of CRISPR technology, people can easily order a kit and tinker with naturally occurring viruses in their basement!!!

 

[Eyeaan]

With today's technology, it is somewhat easy to pick out a lab made virus.

However, at the time it is distinctly possible to design a deadly virus which can be hard to tell from it's natural cousins in the wild.

With the help of CRISPR technology, people can easily order a kit and tinker with naturally occurring viruses in their basement!!!

As I understood (wrong or right), CRISPR is mainly for on-site cell/dna modifications including some RNA repair/design tools as well. For DNA/RNA modifications in a lab, there are a number of other techniques and tools available even before CRISPR.

 

[desan]

Edit

As I understood (wrong or right), CRISPR is mainly for on-site cell/dna modifications including some RNA repair/design tools as well. For DNA/RNA modifications in a lab, there are a number of other techniques and tools available even before CRISPR.

There are a lot of tools available for Genetic Engineering, but probably none are as precise as CRISPR.

 

[desan]

As I understood (wrong or right), CRISPR is mainly for on-site cell/dna modifications including some RNA repair/design tools as well. For DNA/RNA modifications in a lab, there are a number of other techniques and tools available even before CRISPR.

Here is the CRISPR kit...

 

[desan]

As I understood (wrong or right), CRISPR is mainly for on-site cell/dna modifications including some RNA repair/design tools as well. For DNA/RNA modifications in a lab, there are a number of other techniques and tools available even before CRISPR.

Here it is being used COVID (RNA virus)...

 

[Sohail Shuja]

As I understood (wrong or right), CRISPR is mainly for on-site cell/dna modifications including some RNA repair/design tools as well. For DNA/RNA modifications in a lab, there are a number of other techniques and tools available even before CRISPR.

Ye are right.

CRISPR-Case9 screens are not small enough to work on viruses like COVID-19 and/or Influenza.

CRISPR is a tool which is used on larger organic cells, like Bacteria, animal/plant cells.
Whereas, CRISPR in itself uses some delivery mechanism of the RNA or Case-9 enzymes to target the DNA chain of the organism. In most of the cases, the delivery vehicle is a virus in itself.

So, it is very unlikely that CRISPR may be used to alter the RNA code of a similar or even of a smaller size body (i.e. COVID-19 Virus).

But again, though the explanation may not be right, yet I will like to side with desan on the premise that IT IS A GENETICALLY MODIFIED specie.

The reasons are simple.

1- The uniform spread of the virus around the globe
2- The continuous mutation of SARS-Cov2 viruses, i.e. it is different in China than the US version of the virus. Now, let me think of another virus like that which once triggers mutation and keeps on doing it until it fits in every continent of the world.
There are known pathogens which are particular to a region and they usually do mutation once or may be twice, in around 50 to 100 years time. But this SARS-CoV-2 is confusing, since it is making itself fit for every environment on this planet.

'It's Not the Exact Same Virus Everywhere in the World'

Preprint manuscript suggests COVID-19 virus has already mutated into multiple strains

www.medpagetoday.com

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Here is the CRISPR kit...

Here it is being used COVID (RNA virus)...

Here is the mechanism.

CRISPR-cas gene-editing as plausible treatment of neuromuscular and nucleotide-repeat-expansion diseases: A systematic review

Introduction The system of clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats (CRISPR) and CRISPR-associated proteins (cas) is a new technology that allows easier manipulation of the genome. Its potential to edit genes opened a new door in treatment development for incurable neurological...

journals.plos.org

and though this one is not the latest on the subject, but I found the description more comprehensible on the CRISPR Diagnostics.

 

[desan]

Here is the mechanism.

CRISPR-cas gene-editing as plausible treatment of neuromuscular and nucleotide-repeat-expansion diseases: A systematic review

Introduction The system of clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats (CRISPR) and CRISPR-associated proteins (cas) is a new technology that allows easier manipulation of the genome. Its potential to edit genes opened a new door in treatment development for incurable neurological...

journals.plos.org

and though this one is not the latest on the subject, but I found the description more comprehensible on the CRISPR Diagnostics.

CRISPR is kind of an immune system for bacteria to fight viruses...

If bacteria can use it, then why can't we use this system for the same purpose.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

CRISPR is kind of an immune system for bacteria to fight viruses...

If bacteria can use it, then why can't we use this system for the same purpose.

Well, lower order Prokaryotic organisms use it for their defense purpose. Higher order organisms, like Humans/mammals have a more sophisticated system of immunity in them. It is known as anti-bodies.

Actually, what happens in CRISPR is that the some part of DNA/RNA of the attacking organism remains in the Bacteria (or any other prokaryote) after a successful fight off, and the organism stores it as a piece of information in its database (the DNA Chain/Chromosomal chain). to be used later if that specie of the attacking organism attacks them again. So this time, they defend readily.

If CRISPR is to be used in Humans, against COVID-19, it is possible, but it will have to change the DNA of the person, having the necessary code to produce anti-bodies against COVID-19. But it has its own complexities as well. Changing the DNA of a living person may cause undesirable outcomes and it will not be easy to revert those changes. The potential losses can be colossal.

So, therefore, the doctors are concentrating on the natural mechanism to be activated against COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2 virus through a vaccine. This is less fussy and has very minimal side effects. Rather than programming the DNA of each cell of a human body, they just need to give a jab of vaccine to the person.

 

[desan]

Well, lower order Prokaryotic organisms use it for their defense purpose. Higher order organisms, like Humans/mammals have a more sophisticated system of immunity in them. It is known as anti-bodies.

Actually, what happens in CRISPR is that the some part of DNA/RNA of the attacking organism remains in the Bacteria (or any other prokaryote) after a successful fight off, and the organism stores it as a piece of information in its database (the DNA Chain/Chromosomal chain). to be used later if that specie of the attacking organism attacks them again. So this time, they defend readily.

If CRISPR is to be used in Humans, against COVID-19, it is possible, but it will have to change the DNA of the person, having the necessary code to produce anti-bodies against COVID-19. But it has its own complexities as well. Changing the DNA of a living person may cause undesirable outcomes and it will not be easy to revert those changes. The potential losses can be colossal.

So, therefore, the doctors are concentrating on the natural mechanism to be activated against COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2 virus through a vaccine. This is less fussy and has very minimal side effects. Rather than programming the DNA of each cell of a human body, they just need to give a jab of vaccine to the person.

Not talking about directly using in humans, but in making anti-viral treatment.

Monoclonal antibodies is one such avenue.
Or creating a Coronavirus that can arm the immune system without causing the disease, i.e, vaccination.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Not talking about directly using in humans, but in making anti-viral treatment.

Monoclonal antibodies is one such avenue.
Or creating a Coronavirus that can arm the immune system without causing the disease, i.e, vaccination.

There are many avenues, but the problems of stability and ensuring that no substantial side effects are produced by such antibodies require time.

But, focusing on the point and the core of the discussion here... I think it will suffice to say that the card is already up their sleeves. They might be waiting to first get the results/objectives of launching COVID-19 and then releasing the vaccine at the right time.

IDK, exactly, but have heard that the US elections are likely to be delayed due to COVID-19?

What do you presume, if the vaccine is there a couple of months before the elections? will it have any reinforcement effect on the reputation of any candidate of the elections in US?

How do you see the world economy changing in the meanwhile?

Will you prefer to invest in China afterwards? or have deep trade relations with them, if you have any other choices available?

What about the abnormal profits, that are earned by certain sectors in all this fiasco? especially the pharma industry? look around... are there any pharma giants supporting a particular candidate/party in US elections?

Plus there are many other social, political and economic facets, in the backdrop, that might be regulating the launch of the vaccine. Agree?

Or are these all fanciful conspiracy theories?

 

[Khan125]

It originated in US.

 

[desan]

There are many avenues, but the problems of stability and ensuring that no substantial side effects are produced by such antibodies require time.

But, focusing on the point and the core of the discussion here... I think it will suffice to say that the card is already up their sleeves. They might be waiting to first get the results/objectives of launching COVID-19 and then releasing the vaccine at the right time.

IDK, exactly, but have heard that the US elections are likely to be delayed due to COVID-19?

What do you presume, if the vaccine is there a couple of months before the elections? will it have any reinforcement effect on the reputation of any candidate of the elections in US?

How do you see the world economy changing in the meanwhile?

Will you prefer to invest in China afterwards? or have deep trade relations with them, if you have any other choices available?

What about the abnormal profits, that are earned by certain sectors in all this fiasco? especially the pharma industry? look around... are there any pharma giants supporting a particular candidate/party in US elections?

Plus there are many other social, political and economic facets, in the backdrop, that might be regulating the launch of the vaccine. Agree?

Or are these all fanciful conspiracy theories?

Don't know about the conspiracy theories.

However, passive immunization (transfusion of plasma from cured patients) will be the fastest treatment and treatment through mono-clonal antibodies will be next.

Vaccine will probably will take a little longer as this will involve a lot of testing.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Don't know about the conspiracy theories.

However, passive immunization (transfusion of plasma from cured patients) will be the fastest treatment and treatment through mono-clonal antibodies will be next.

Vaccine will probably will take a little longer as this will involve a lot of testing.

Well, how effective will be the passive immunization in this respect? They already have the plasma of the recovered patients.

Vaccine provides active immunization and for pandemics like these, temporary/passive immunization will be more of a fuss than a solution, keeping in view the other factors in sight such as mortality rate and spread of disease, etc..

 

[desan]

What is the difference between a vaccine and passive immunization through plasma?

Passive: Transfuse plasma from recovered COVID patients. Similar to antivenom from snake bites where horse plasma is used. Relatively fast treatment but cumbersome and hard to scale up. Also higher risk for allergic reaction.

Vaccine: Inject antigen from inactivated virus or bacteria. Like Flu Vaccine.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Passive: Transfuse plasma from recovered COVID patients. Similar to antivenom from snake bites where horse plasma is used. Relatively fast treatment but cumbersome and hard to scale up. Also higher risk for allergic reaction.

Vaccine: Inject antigen from inactivated virus or bacteria. Like Flu Vaccine.

So, they already have it in hand? I mean the Plasma (IG and IGIV).
Why are they not using it on critical patients?

'No evidence' of immunity in recovered patients - WHO

There is currently no evidence to support the belief that people who have recovered from coronavirus then have immunity, the World Health Organization has said.

www.rte.ie

I guess the active immunization through attenuated viruses will be a thing which can be used on mass scale for developing immunity in the populations.

 

[desan]

So, they already have it in hand? I mean the Plasma (IG and IGIV).
Why are they not using it on critical patients?

I guess the active immunization through attenuated viruses will be a thing which can be used on mass scale for developing immunity in the populations.

They have experimented it with good success.
Don't know why they are not using it for critically ill patients???

Treatment of 5 Critically Ill Patients With COVID-19 With Convalescent Plasma

Treatment of Critically Ill Patients With COVID-19 With Convalescent Plasma

This case series describes clinical outcomes in 5 Chinese patients with laboratory-confirmed COVID-19, ARDS, and high viral loads despite antiviral treatment who were given human plasma with SARS-CoV-2 antibodies obtained from previously infected and recovered patients.

jamanetwork.com

 

[Sohail Shuja]

They have experimented it with good success.
Don't know why they are not using it for critically ill patients???

Treatment of 5 Critically Ill Patients With COVID-19 With Convalescent Plasma

Treatment of Critically Ill Patients With COVID-19 With Convalescent Plasma

This case series describes clinical outcomes in 5 Chinese patients with laboratory-confirmed COVID-19, ARDS, and high viral loads despite antiviral treatment who were given human plasma with SARS-CoV-2 antibodies obtained from previously infected and recovered patients.

jamanetwork.com

But what I recently heard about it through the Horse's mouth was pretty different.

'No evidence' of immunity in recovered patients - WHO

There is currently no evidence to support the belief that people who have recovered from coronavirus then have immunity, the World Health Organization has said.

www.rte.ie

Now please... Don't say anything about Conspiracy Theories.... Lol

 

[desan]

But what I recently heard about it through the Horse's mouth was pretty different.

'No evidence' of immunity in recovered patients - WHO

There is currently no evidence to support the belief that people who have recovered from coronavirus then have immunity, the World Health Organization has said.

www.rte.ie

Now please... Don't say anything about Conspiracy Theories.... Lol

Doubt if they are holding up passive immunization for political purposes as if not US, other countries might have used it.

Herd immunity is a compeltey different topic.