Off The Record - Aik Dusre Per Kufur Ke Fatwe Q Lagae Jate Hain ??

[Arslan]

[PLAYWIRE=1002956]3752140[/PLAYWIRE]

 

[Dream Seller]

Good discussion but one question...Had Quran been enough if there was no collection of Hadiths? Please answer respectfully without pointing finger on other sects

 

[Wadaich]

Good discussion but one question...Had Quran been enough if there was no collection of Hadiths? Please answer respectfully without pointing finger on other sects

Hadees's literal meaning is "report" or "narration". Nabi-e-Pak pbuh life is practical presentation of Quran. It is impossible to comprehend the message given in Quran without following Sahih Hadees. Combination of Sunnah pbuh and Quran completes the message of Allah :subhanahu:

 

[shoro]

Hadees's literal meaning is "report" or "narration". Nabi-e-Pak pbuh life is practical presentation of Quran. It is impossible to comprehend the message given in Quran without following Sahih Hadees. Combination of Sunnah pbuh and Quran completes the message of Allah :subhanahu:

Very good question Dream Seller. Wadaich: Appreciate your explanation - however, sunnah can't be mixed with message from Allah (the message is only based on revelations descended upon all prophets). Sunnah is your prophet's practical life as not all aspects have been touched upon in Quran. Islam totally directs you to follow Shariah which is the practice based on the life of Prophet but then a lot of things are not applicable in today's societies such as the concept of polygamy, owning slaves and having sex with them, marrying very young girl, etc.
Having said that it's also arguable that some of the hadiths in Sahih Bokhari and Muslim have degrees of authenticity or in other words are called weak again thanks to so-called scholars appeared in the programs we witness we have no clear sense of direction about the religion and who seemed to be hell-bent on promulgating their own agenda. Such a shame how most of us blindly follow and exercise their path instead of finding the truth and keeping things simple for the better of humanity.

 

[Wadaich]

Very good question Dream Seller. Wadaich: Appreciate your explanation - however, sunnah can't be mixed with message from Allah (the message is only based on revelations descended upon all prophets). Sunnah is your prophet's practical life as not all aspects have been touched upon in Quran. Islam totally directs you to follow Shariah which is the practice based on the life of Prophet but then a lot of things are not applicable in today's societies such as the concept of polygamy, owning slaves and having sex with them, marrying very young girl, etc.
Having said that it's also arguable that some of the hadiths in Sahih Bokhari and Muslim have degrees of authenticity or in other words are called weak again thanks to so-called scholars appeared in the programs we witness we have no clear sense of direction about the religion and who seemed to be hell-bent on promulgating their own agenda. Such a shame how most of us blindly follow and exercise their path instead of finding the truth and keeping things simple for the better of humanity.

Thanks for comments Bro. Here is some clarification.

1. Islam is not religion (collection of some rituals) like Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism etc which is personal matter. It is a way of life (Deen) in strict sense of the term which Allah :subhanahu: chose for HIS miraculous creation.... the humans......Qura'an is OEM manual for a peaceful society. The rituals in it are to strengthen its social aspect which is 90%. Islam is nothing but a social code......

2. Islam did never support slavery in any of its kind.......rather eliminated this evil step by step as it was part of the then social structure. It freed the slaves....even on minor sins it was asked to free a slave.

3. Allowance of up to 4 marriages is to save the society from destruction in certain conditions. Qura'an doesn't encourage it, rather restricts to one if U cannot do justice. If we abuse this allowance Islam is not be blamed. Islam doesn't make marrying at younger age mandatory.... though recommends it soon after getting adult. This is a blessing for society......

4. Nothing in Islam is impractical if we don't try tailoring it to our life styles & wishes. Remember! Non knows better about the product than its OEM.:)

5. The OEM says there no compulsion to follow Islam. On your free will U take it or leave it. If U chose it then condition is to adapt yourself to it 100%......submission of will to God is the prerequisite.

6. Like Christiaty, there is no room of professional Mullah-ism in Islam. As Muslims got away from Qura'an-o-Sunnah this evil developed.

7. We must follow Authentic Ahadees-e-Mubarkah as these are enough to guide us.

 

[oscar]

سارا فساد ایک لفظ "صحابی" کی جاہلانہ تعریف کا ہے جس کی وجہ سے جانے مانے منافق کو بھی مقدس گائے بنا کر پوجا جاسکتا ہے۔

 

[shoro]

Thanks for comments Bro. Here is some clarification.

1. Islam is not religion (collection of some rituals) like Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism etc which is personal matter. It is a way of life (Deen) in strict sense of the term which Allah :subhanahu: chose for HIS miraculous creation.... the humans......Qura'an is OEM manual for a peaceful society. The rituals in it are to strengthen its social aspect which is 90%. Islam is nothing but a social code......

2. Islam did never support slavery in any of its kind.......rather eliminated this evil step by step as it was part of the then social structure. It freed the slaves....even on minor sins it was asked to free a slave.

3. Allowance of up to 4 marriages is to save the society from destruction in certain conditions. Qura'an doesn't encourage it, rather restricts to one if U cannot do justice. If we abuse this allowance Islam is not be blamed. Islam doesn't make marrying at younger age mandatory.... though recommends it soon after getting adult. This is a blessing for society......

4. Nothing in Islam is impractical if we don't try tailoring it to our life styles & wishes. Remember! Non knows better about the product than its OEM.:)

5. The OEM says there no compulsion to follow Islam. On your free will U take it or leave it. If U chose it then condition is to adapt yourself to it 100%......submission of will to God is the prerequisite.

6. Like Christiaty, there is no room of professional Mullah-ism in Islam. As Muslims got away from Qura'an-o-Sunnah this evil developed.

7. We must follow Authentic Ahadees-e-Mubarkah as these are enough to guide us.

Thanks for clarification, Wadaich. I believe your clarification seem to be more of your perception about the religion based on your strong belief system - good on you! :)

1. It needs to be acknowledged and realized that no religion in the world teaches negative influences to its followers otherwise there wouldn't be any following. Every religion offers certain discipline and code to living life in a peaceful way. As much as I hate to say it, it's true that muslims all over the world have inherited some false sense of superiority complex as being the superior race with ownership to existing life as well as life after and considering non-muslim humans as children of lesser god. Just because we don't know anything about other religion it may not be fair to presume that they are non-believers and must be invited to follow your OEM turnkey solution and that it will help solve all the problems of humanity (wish it was that simple).
Again I am not merely trying to be critical of it all just stating the facts - right from the time when controversies erupted for power over Caliphate to date when majority of us seems to be in shambles.

2. Slaves have been mentioned numerous times in the Book: It should be noted that Sura 70:29-30, 'uses nearly the identical words as Sura 23:5-6. Men must guard their private parts from everyone but their wives and slave-girls, meaning that men may have sex with both "categories" (Maududi’s word)' Like I said the traditions and society was different during those times - things which now sounds like taboo may be prevalent part of all society during those times. No denying to the fact that if we go by the Book it's also mentioned that slaves should not be forced into having sexual intercourse, or should be freed if they asked for it.

3. Four marriages to SAVE the society?!!
AYAT an-Nisa` 4:129 seems to suggest otherwise: "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
Justice is a very relative term which involves variable factors. Quran doesn't support polygamy but the prophet had twelve wives which is again "personal matter" - had nothing to do with religion right but "to save the society from destruction in certain condition".

4. Here the only thought which made sense was OEM as product owner :) Clarification needs some more clarification though - Thought the whole idea was about simplicity but practicability as an essence to living life.

5. Submission to GOD is only what matters bro - the rest of "conditions" of OEM are too convoluted to "take it"

6. For us muslims - unfortunately this is the one size fits all line! Think about your rationale :)

7. Who is to decide what is authentic and what's not - so there you go back to your favorite "professional Mullah" :P

 

[moazzamniaz]

احمق کاشف! "ایک دوسرے پر کفر کے فتوے کیوں؟؟".یہ بھلا کوئی سوال ہے؟؟اب یہ مفت کا چندہ(حرام) کھا کر ایک دوسرے پر کفر کے فتوے نہ لگائیں تو کیا کریں؟؟ وہ مشہور کہاوت ہے کہ خالی دماغ شیطان کی ورکشاپ ہوتا ہے

دوسرا سب فرقوں کے قدیم و بوسیدہ اسلاف ، دوسرے تمام مسلمان فرقوں کو قرآن و سنت کی روشنی میں کافر قرار دے کر چلتے بنے، لہٰذا اب یہ آج کے مولوی اور مسلمان کیا کر سکتے ہیں؟؟؟

ویسے امین شہیدی نے فرقہ واریت کی بالکل صحیح تعریف کی ہے کہ " جب کسی دوسرے انسان کو اسکے بے ضرر مذہبی عقائد(جن سے کسی دوسرے کو جانی یا مالی نقصان نہ ہو) پر عمل کرنے سے بزور طاقت یا تشدد روکا جاے". یہی فرقہ واریت ہے

البتہ ترلے منتوں سے دوسرے انسانوں کو انکے بے ضرر مذہبی عقائد سے روکنے کو کوشش کرنے میں کوئی مضائقہ نہیں. چار سال سے اس فورم پر یہی کام ہو رہا ہے، کوئی بندہ نہیں مرا.یہ الگ بات ہے کہ ترلے منتوں سے کوئی اپنے مقدس عقائد نہیں بدلتا

 

[Abdul Allah]

سارا فساد ایک لفظ "صحابی" کی جاہلانہ تعریف کا ہے جس کی وجہ سے جانے مانے منافق کو بھی مقدس گائے بنا کر پوجا جاسکتا ہے۔

جس نے ایمان کی حالت میں رسول الله کو دیکھا


اس پر کوئی اعتراض ؟؟

 

[oscar]

جس نے ایمان کی حالت میں رسول الله کو دیکھا

اس پر کوئی اعتراض ؟؟

اقرار باللسان ہر مومن اور منافق نے کیا، مگر ایمان کا حال اللہ جانتا ہے، ہمارے پاس منافقین کو پہچاننے کا معیار رسول کی بتائی نشانیاں اور تاریخ میں انکا کردار ہے،بہت سے ایسے کردار جنہیں آپ زبردستی صحابی بناتے ہیں، صریح منافق تھے اور انہیں اس بات کی پرواہ نہیں تھی۔ سادہ سی مثال معاویہ بن ابو سفیان کی ہے، جسے کوئی ایمان اور عقل کا اندھا ہی مومن سمجھ سکتا ہے، آپ اگر آنکھوں دیکھی مکھیاں نگلنے پر مصر ہیں تو بصد شوق، لیکن جھوٹے فضائل کے دفتر گھڑنے سے آپ اللہ کے اس وعدے کو نہیں جھٹلا سکتے کہ إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ فِي الدَّرْكِ الأَسْفَلِ مِنَ النَّارِ وَلَنْ تَجِدَ لَهُمْ نَصِيرًا

 

[Abdul Allah]

اقرار باللسان ہر مومن اور منافق نے کیا، مگر ایمان کا حال اللہ جانتا ہے، ہمارے پاس منافقین کو پہچاننے کا معیار رسول کی بتائی نشانیاں اور تاریخ میں انکا کردار ہے،بہت سے ایسے کردار جنہیں آپ زبردستی صحابی بناتے ہیں، صریح منافق تھے اور انہیں اس بات کی پرواہ نہیں تھی۔ سادہ سی مثال معاویہ بن ابو سفیان کی ہے، جسے کوئی ایمان اور عقل کا اندھا ہی مومن سمجھ سکتا ہے، آپ اگر آنکھوں دیکھی مکھیاں نگلنے پر مصر ہیں تو بصد شوق، لیکن جھوٹے فضائل کے دفتر گھڑنے سے آپ اللہ کے اس وعدے کو نہیں جھٹلا سکتے کہ إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ فِي الدَّرْكِ الأَسْفَلِ مِنَ النَّارِ وَلَنْ تَجِدَ لَهُمْ نَصِيرًا

صحابی کی تعریف کردیں جو کے آپکی نظر میں ٹھیک ہے

 

[oscar]

رسول اللہ صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم کے وہ پیروکار جن کے کردار اور افعال میں رسول اللہ اور انکی آل کا بغض اور انکے دشمنوں کی حب نظر نہ آئے