Mushkilaat Kay Liyae Kuch Dua'e
- Thread starter meezan
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meezan
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
John Esposito notes that "Modern Western scholarship has seriously questioned the historicity and authenticity of the hadith", maintaining that "the bulk of traditions attributed to the Prophet Muhammad were actually written much later." He mentions Joseph Schacht, as one scholar who argues this, claiming that Schacht "found no evidence of legal traditions before 722," from which Schacht concluded that "the Sunna of the Prophet is not the words and deeds of the Prophet, but apocryphal material" dating from later. Though other scholars, such as Wilferd Madelung, have argued that "wholesale rejection of hadith as late fiction is unjustified".
Some Muslims, such as Kassim Ahmad (declared an apostate by some scholars), have suggested that the original prohibition against Hadith led to the Golden Age of Islam, as the Quran was able to stand up to critical thinking and questioning; and Muslims were thus schooled to be inquisitive and seek answers to every quandary. They posit that the increased reliance on Hadith, which was allegedly illogical and required the suspension of disbelief, led to the eventual downfall of scholastic pursuits in the religion.
In 1878, Cyrus Hamlin wrote that "Tradition, rather than the Quran, has formed both law and religion for the Moslems". In the early 20th century, a book was written in defence of the Hadith stating "Anyone who denies the role of Abu Hurayra denies half of the canonical law, for half of the hadiths on which judgments were based had their origin in Abu Hurayra".
Some Muslims, such as Kassim Ahmad (declared an apostate by some scholars), have suggested that the original prohibition against Hadith led to the Golden Age of Islam, as the Quran was able to stand up to critical thinking and questioning; and Muslims were thus schooled to be inquisitive and seek answers to every quandary. They posit that the increased reliance on Hadith, which was allegedly illogical and required the suspension of disbelief, led to the eventual downfall of scholastic pursuits in the religion.
In 1878, Cyrus Hamlin wrote that "Tradition, rather than the Quran, has formed both law and religion for the Moslems". In the early 20th century, a book was written in defence of the Hadith stating "Anyone who denies the role of Abu Hurayra denies half of the canonical law, for half of the hadiths on which judgments were based had their origin in Abu Hurayra".
http://www.parwez.tv/download/maqaamehadees.pdf
[SIZE=-1]As we all know that all our knowledge begins with suppositions ie we suppose things to begin with and then we try to build our picture from that base through trial and error.
As we go along we put one brick above the other and if it fits we then put the next one on top of that otherwise we change our original supposition and try again. We keep doing that for as long as we are successful in getting the balance right and we have the building as much as we can build in our life time. This is how far we can take this exercise. It is an act of balancing plates on sticks and each of us can only balance so many in our lives ie rome was not build in a day.
In short we are all out on a fact finding mission knowing absolutely nothing at all in advance. In other words when we are born we have nothing to go on other than the brain and its senses and the environment we are born in.
The learning process continues till the day we are unable to learn anything any more. Between the beginning and the end of our lives whatever we have experienced is total sum of our knowledge.
Some people have more knowledge than others due to having wider and deeper life experiences than others as well as some people have different knowledge from others due to having spent their lives in totally different environments from each other. This is why nothing is cut and dry for anyone.
By exchanging ideas with each other we are only sharing our own life experiences with each other and thereby we help each other learn from that. Some people who are better at absorbing information and putting it together in better ways put forth more convincing claims and evidences than others and therefore we tend to unite on something better than what we already have.
This is how humanity came to an agreement that rules of wisdom should be the basis for all our claims and evidences to judge by.
The main rule is that if we have two opposing statement then both of them cannot be true at the same time in the same sense. Either both are fale or only one of them may be true.
Likewise any statement that contradicts self evident facts cannot be accepted true. The facts as understood by us at any given time.
What all this means is that nothing is true unless something is consistent within itself and with respect to realities of real world as understood by humans who do research and explore things.
This means that if the quran is divine in its origin then all its statements should prove free of contradictions within itself and with respect to realities of real world as far as they can be understood by human beings. Any information in the quran that humans yet do not understand cannot be used in evidence either till it becomes known as to what it stands for.
Since we are all on a journey of discovery therefore we should be allowed to continue this journey and we must not be stopped by each other because if we are stopped in the middle of this process then this process will remain an unfinished business and any claims about it by anyone will be absurd.
This is why claims of our sectarian friends are neither here nor there. They have so called aqaaid based religious interpretations of the quran that have countless mistakes in them because they do not use the proper idea for discovering tyhe truth instead they take their make beleifs as sure tyhing and then try to prove them correct trough quranic statements by their senseless interpretations.
The main point for us to realise is that in islam the quran is supposed to be the foundational text of isalm. For the quran to be proven genuine source of divine origin therefore we can never understand the quran in isolation from things that it is talking about. Since the quran talks about islam therefore we need to know what islam is, only then it will make sense likeiwse if it is divine manifesto of islam then we must also learn what a manifesto is all about before we could understand what the quran has to say as divine manifesto. Likewise if the quran is divine constitution for mankind to build their human community or society upon it then we need to know what are social structure, systems and practices that the quran is talking about. It is because there has to be relationship betwen constitution, its organisation and community as well as its institutions therefore if we do not make ourselves aware about these things then the quran cannot be understood at all.
It is therefore not right in my view to ignore anything when we interpret the quran because every little can help to understand the quran. However nothing can be taken 100% genuine hence we are forced to take what works and leave what does not because whatever works to serve the stated purpose is right and all else is wrong. This is why we must take realities of the real world as basis to begin with and build upon that and the picture the quran gives us will gradually become clearer and clearer fitting like pieces of a jig saw puzzle.
It did not need to be this way but because muslims have tampered with islamic sources and over the centuries things have become muddled up therefore to get back the original information is not going to be easy. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]As we all know that all our knowledge begins with suppositions ie we suppose things to begin with and then we try to build our picture from that base through trial and error.
As we go along we put one brick above the other and if it fits we then put the next one on top of that otherwise we change our original supposition and try again. We keep doing that for as long as we are successful in getting the balance right and we have the building as much as we can build in our life time. This is how far we can take this exercise. It is an act of balancing plates on sticks and each of us can only balance so many in our lives ie rome was not build in a day.
In short we are all out on a fact finding mission knowing absolutely nothing at all in advance. In other words when we are born we have nothing to go on other than the brain and its senses and the environment we are born in.
The learning process continues till the day we are unable to learn anything any more. Between the beginning and the end of our lives whatever we have experienced is total sum of our knowledge.
Some people have more knowledge than others due to having wider and deeper life experiences than others as well as some people have different knowledge from others due to having spent their lives in totally different environments from each other. This is why nothing is cut and dry for anyone.
By exchanging ideas with each other we are only sharing our own life experiences with each other and thereby we help each other learn from that. Some people who are better at absorbing information and putting it together in better ways put forth more convincing claims and evidences than others and therefore we tend to unite on something better than what we already have.
This is how humanity came to an agreement that rules of wisdom should be the basis for all our claims and evidences to judge by.
The main rule is that if we have two opposing statement then both of them cannot be true at the same time in the same sense. Either both are fale or only one of them may be true.
Likewise any statement that contradicts self evident facts cannot be accepted true. The facts as understood by us at any given time.
What all this means is that nothing is true unless something is consistent within itself and with respect to realities of real world as understood by humans who do research and explore things.
This means that if the quran is divine in its origin then all its statements should prove free of contradictions within itself and with respect to realities of real world as far as they can be understood by human beings. Any information in the quran that humans yet do not understand cannot be used in evidence either till it becomes known as to what it stands for.
Since we are all on a journey of discovery therefore we should be allowed to continue this journey and we must not be stopped by each other because if we are stopped in the middle of this process then this process will remain an unfinished business and any claims about it by anyone will be absurd.
This is why claims of our sectarian friends are neither here nor there. They have so called aqaaid based religious interpretations of the quran that have countless mistakes in them because they do not use the proper idea for discovering tyhe truth instead they take their make beleifs as sure tyhing and then try to prove them correct trough quranic statements by their senseless interpretations.
The main point for us to realise is that in islam the quran is supposed to be the foundational text of isalm. For the quran to be proven genuine source of divine origin therefore we can never understand the quran in isolation from things that it is talking about. Since the quran talks about islam therefore we need to know what islam is, only then it will make sense likeiwse if it is divine manifesto of islam then we must also learn what a manifesto is all about before we could understand what the quran has to say as divine manifesto. Likewise if the quran is divine constitution for mankind to build their human community or society upon it then we need to know what are social structure, systems and practices that the quran is talking about. It is because there has to be relationship betwen constitution, its organisation and community as well as its institutions therefore if we do not make ourselves aware about these things then the quran cannot be understood at all.
It is therefore not right in my view to ignore anything when we interpret the quran because every little can help to understand the quran. However nothing can be taken 100% genuine hence we are forced to take what works and leave what does not because whatever works to serve the stated purpose is right and all else is wrong. This is why we must take realities of the real world as basis to begin with and build upon that and the picture the quran gives us will gradually become clearer and clearer fitting like pieces of a jig saw puzzle.
It did not need to be this way but because muslims have tampered with islamic sources and over the centuries things have become muddled up therefore to get back the original information is not going to be easy. [/SIZE]
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What does word dua mean in the quran context? Dua is from same root as dawa ie daal, ain and wow. It has various meanings eg to raise a claim or to invite or to call upon etc etc.
What does it mean to call upon God? In the quranic context calling upon God means to rely upon God regarding matters of concern for mankind as explained in the quran. The quran explains how people are to live their life in order to have a great life in this world as a human community. This means people are told to rely upon the way the quran has told mankind and leave all else alone. If people do not live by goals and guidelines explained in the quran then call upon God as much as they like nothing will happen. This is the lesson of the quran. Ignoring what the quran tells us and crying and shouting to God for help is not going to work. It is because Allah has told us very clearly in the quran how he works and what we ourselves are supposed to be doing ie our roles are clearly cut out for us. Allah only does what he has told us he will do and unless we do what he told us to do as our role in this interaction then cry all we like nothing can break will of Allah. It is therefore no use crying to Allah for things he has told us to do for our own good.
The universe is set up to work in certain ways ie its role has been already defined therefore nature works the way it is set up by God to work and likewise our role in the grand scheme of things is also cut out for us. If we do our part of bargain then Allah will do his part of the bargain and all will be well and good otherwise things will break down and that will only make us suffer the consequences as explained in the quran.
It is a bit difficult concept to understand and to come to terms with. Allah works by rules he has set up and told us about if we at all care to find out. It is a rule set by Allah that man and woman cannot have children just by asking Allah no matter how nicely instead they must rely on things as Allah has set them up. This is why those people who rely on ways that work end up with the related results and those who sit praying and crying to Allah for things they desire do not get them.
If by accident one loses his limb, it cannot grow back just because one prays to Allah for replacement instead one needs to get it by working towards it ie through research and exploration regarding this knowledge. It is unfortunate that we have become primitive people in the name God the while God wants us to learn things about life and get real. We have a very long way to go to become a sensible people who can really understand what the quran is actually saying. We are making our lives even more difficult by condemning those who are trying to educate us.
What does it mean to call upon God? In the quranic context calling upon God means to rely upon God regarding matters of concern for mankind as explained in the quran. The quran explains how people are to live their life in order to have a great life in this world as a human community. This means people are told to rely upon the way the quran has told mankind and leave all else alone. If people do not live by goals and guidelines explained in the quran then call upon God as much as they like nothing will happen. This is the lesson of the quran. Ignoring what the quran tells us and crying and shouting to God for help is not going to work. It is because Allah has told us very clearly in the quran how he works and what we ourselves are supposed to be doing ie our roles are clearly cut out for us. Allah only does what he has told us he will do and unless we do what he told us to do as our role in this interaction then cry all we like nothing can break will of Allah. It is therefore no use crying to Allah for things he has told us to do for our own good.
The universe is set up to work in certain ways ie its role has been already defined therefore nature works the way it is set up by God to work and likewise our role in the grand scheme of things is also cut out for us. If we do our part of bargain then Allah will do his part of the bargain and all will be well and good otherwise things will break down and that will only make us suffer the consequences as explained in the quran.
It is a bit difficult concept to understand and to come to terms with. Allah works by rules he has set up and told us about if we at all care to find out. It is a rule set by Allah that man and woman cannot have children just by asking Allah no matter how nicely instead they must rely on things as Allah has set them up. This is why those people who rely on ways that work end up with the related results and those who sit praying and crying to Allah for things they desire do not get them.
If by accident one loses his limb, it cannot grow back just because one prays to Allah for replacement instead one needs to get it by working towards it ie through research and exploration regarding this knowledge. It is unfortunate that we have become primitive people in the name God the while God wants us to learn things about life and get real. We have a very long way to go to become a sensible people who can really understand what the quran is actually saying. We are making our lives even more difficult by condemning those who are trying to educate us.
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