Lie of Shahbaz Sharif

[Joker]

I am from Lahore but I want development in other areas of Pakistan as well

Janu tu fikr na kar , PML N next 5 years mein poray Mulk key taqdeer badal de gi(clap)

 

[xiaahmad]

Taqdeer sey murad Roads hai ? Cant think beyond right? :lol:

 

[Charge Sheet]

Gosh, you can can do maths too..
No, not happy yet
where did you get 0% profit
can you please write projected revenues, expenses, depreciation allowances to start with
and then we can discuss other fixed and varibale costs...

Oh hoo, lagta hai PML-N main kisi ne accounting bhi parhi howe hai:)

Dear GeoG, please try to understand the fundamental principle that if you are subsidizing it how are you going to be covering the cost.

For variable costs, the subsidy is going to be part of it (deduction in fares) in the form of working capital every year.

Now if you want to calculate the Net Present Value of the project you have to discount it with the prevailing interest rate atleast + KIBOR. For that purpose, the discount rate for the investment already done i.e, 31 Billion shall be 1 and for the coming years with the subsidy given shall be in a continuing loss.

If you want the NPV to be positive, I believe this project needs more than 10 years after the subsidy. Meanwhile, in these years you will also have to provide for "overhaul" of buses, repair of routes etc.

Further, if you have any profit figures with you, please share with us.

And for Godsake, please assess the difference between priorities and political point scoring. Spend the money where it is actually needed.

 

[GeoG]

Which claim of Shahbaz Sharif have you found truthful in the last five year? In fact, these are the same people who said that there is no deal with Musharraf.

Was NS a Hijacker?

you may say I have changed the subject, so have your goodself
question was to prove it figures not just rhetoric, but this mole xiaahmad will never respond on that.....

 

[AHMED78]

show bazz sharif harram zaaday un ching chi waloo ko chor jo teray is flop bus ki jatay thay .****** un k bachay bhokay mar rahay hay

 

[Charge Sheet]

Janu tu fikr na kar , PML N next 5 years mein poray Mulk key taqdeer badal de gi(clap)

Pichlay 5 saalon main tou sirf apnay sir he badla hai.

 

[xiaahmad]

I have quoted the news source prove it wrong

 

[GeoG]

Oh hoo, lagta hai PML-N main kisi ne accounting bhi parhi howe hai:)

Dear GeoG, please try to understand the fundamental principle that if you are subsidizing it how are you going to be covering the cost.

For variable costs, the subsidy is going to be part of it (deduction in fares) in the form of working capital every year.

Now if you want to calculate the Net Present Value of the project you have to discount it with the prevailing interest rate atleast + KIBOR. For that purpose, the discount rate for the investment already done i.e, 31 Billion shall be 1 and for the coming years with the subsidy given shall be in a continuing loss.

If you want the NPV to be positive, I believe this project needs more than 10 years after the subsidy. Meanwhile, in these years you will also have to provide for "overhaul" of buses, repair of routes etc.

Further, if you have any profit figures with you, please share with us.

And for Godsake, please assess the difference between priorities and political point scoring. Spend the money where it is actually needed.

I will reserve my comment about me belonging to PLMn
But if you apply KIBOR or LIBOR rate on any national project by even Western Countries, these projects are seldom feasible.

It is duty of Govt to make infrastructure and provide jobs,
I may turn tables on you and ask you a question, would you re-evaluate the cost of construction in future years?
Savings alone from construction this year with inflation rate so high in Pakistan may cover KIBOR in future years

I agree with your point of political point scoring, this project was hurried due to immense pressure from PTI, Noon needed a trophy and they have got one, sadly!!.

 

[aimless]

xiaahmad bro, shabaz shareef was talking about the how Turkish company will get its cost recover in 5 yrs .

 

[aimless]

"I agree with your point of political point scoring, this project was hurried due to immense pressure from PTI, Noon needed a trophy and they have got one, sadly!!."

bro i disagree that PML N get a trophy by doing that .. it will be a bad decision from PML N becz now they become an easy target plus this project might open up a new era of corruption and miss management . in my view PML N leaders need good advisor than chamchas they have... i think PML N wanted to get a trophy and if i was there advisor i would have told them to make 20 hospitals ..it would be a good trophy plus ... cost would be the same ...

 

[Gujjar1]

better to be wasted on people than on Raja rentals expenses...pls stop critisizing. this ptoject will help in the long run if maintian honestly which only expected under IK government. vote only IK...

 

[GeoG]

"I agree with your point of political point scoring, this project was hurried due to immense pressure from PTI, Noon needed a trophy and they have got one, sadly!!."

bro i disagree that PML N get a trophy by doing that .. it will be a bad decision from PML N becz now they become an easy target plus this project might open up a new era of corruption and miss management . in my view PML N leaders need good advisor than chamchas they have... i think PML N wanted to get a trophy and if i was there advisor i would have told them to make 20 hospitals ..it would be a good trophy plus ... cost would be the same ...

Agreed, but PTI pressure is mainly in Lahore and Sialkot
and they can not make 20 hospitals in Lahore so they needed "A" mega project, visible all over the city...

 

[Charge Sheet]

I will reserve my comment about me belonging to PLMn
But if you apply KIBOR or LIBOR rate on any national project by even Western Countries, these projects are seldom feasible.

It is duty of Govt to make infrastructure and provide jobs,
I may turn tables on you and ask you a question, would you re-evaluate the cost of construction in future years?
Savings alone from construction this year with inflation rate so high in Pakistan may cover KIBOR in future years

I agree with your point of political point scoring, this project was hurried due to immense pressure from PTI, Noon needed a trophy and they have got one, sadly!!.

Instead of KIBOR please advise me other suitable rate on which this project should be evaluated. KIBOR can be covered by inflation, come on. Wont the costs be affected by the inflation especially the fuel costs and when you increase the fares, public and media would blast you and force you to provide the subsidies. Moreover, the foreign investors need their returns or they would back off.

Cost of contruction would never be reevaluated in the future years.
From Management accounting prespective, it is sunk cost for decision making.
From Financial Management presepective, if you are assessing the Net Present Value (NPV) of any project, you have to calculate the NPV of the initial investment of 31 Billion at time=0 which for any discount rate (kibor or Kibor+) =1 making 31Billion x 1 = 31 Billion + all other expenses which will be incurred at time = 0 which is now. After subsequent years, you would be discounting your incomes and expenses at a discount rate factor less than 1.


As far as PML-N winning the trophy its likely to retain their supporters, however, other people have different questions in their minds.

 

[Charge Sheet]

From Financial accounting prespective, it is likely to be considered as cash generating asset (including roads and buses together). You may revalue it but it would be done to sell it to any investor.
The revaluation / restructuring has been done earlier to PIA, Pak Steel & Railways.

Land of PIA & Railways is saleable whereas of this bus route would only be revalued to be sold or for figure fudging.

 

[Charge Sheet]

Agreed, but PTI pressure is mainly in Lahore and Sialkot
and they can not make 20 hospitals in Lahore so they needed "A" mega project, visible all over the city...

PTI pressure is not in mainly Lahore & Sialkot. In Rawalpindi city NA 54,55,56 & Islamabad 48,49 PTI has got a massive support. It would be a shocker to PML-N. How could you forget Multan (SMQ & JH)

If you talk about Rawalpindi, no one has ever done more work than Sh Rasheed but people blasted him for supporting Pervaiz Musharraf.
Sh Rasheed 2 projects TB hospital & sheikh rasheed express way were abandoned by PML-N. PML-N promised the elevated Murree Road and Circular Road, none fulfilled.

In hospitals, MRI machines are not working and people are getting it done privately by Paying a minimum Rs 10,000. Even the Brufen syrup is not present the copy of Brufen (Lal sharbat) is given and that too for 1 day medicine. 6 babies are put on a single machine. Medical tests are not done in the hospitals and they are referred to Labs. The owner of the famous "Citi Lab" is now a expected candidate for MPA.

+ PML-N workers ransacked the Holyfamily hospital's ICU in medica unit on death of their relative and destroyed the oxygen supply pipelines. No action taken by Punjab Govt.

For hepatitis C patients, PegInteron (Interferon) by Schering Plough was given by Baitul Maal to the patients has been stopped 3 years back. The course valued Rs 3laks. Now patients buy chinese medicine for Rs 28,000 but does not guarantee cure.

Crime is at peak, FIRs are never lodged. Its a little about good governance.

 

[GeoG]

Instead of KIBOR please advise me other suitable rate on which this project should be evaluated. KIBOR can be covered by inflation, come on. Wont the costs be affected by the inflation especially the fuel costs and when you increase the fares, public and media would blast you and force you to provide the subsidies. Moreover, the foreign investors need their returns or they would back off.

Cost of contruction would never be reevaluated in the future years.
From Management accounting prespective, it is sunk cost for decision making.
From Financial Management presepective, if you are assessing the Net Present Value (NPV) of any project, you have to calculate the NPV of the initial investment of 31 Billion at time=0 which for any discount rate (kibor or Kibor+) =1 making 31Billion x 1 = 31 Billion + all other expenses which will be incurred at time = 0 which is now. After subsequent years, you would be discounting your incomes and expenses at a discount rate factor less than 1.


As far as PML-N winning the trophy its likely to retain their supporters, however, other people have different questions in their minds.

This project has not been financed by International Funding so their return is irrelevant, just a cost per mile for the buses which will be incorporated int he operating costs. KIBOR is much higher than LIBOR these days so in your evaluation you need the set the basis on which you want to carry on your discussion. You have yourself covered the inflation costs by hike in fares, assuming these fare hike is co-related with inflation, normally govts keep it higher than inflation rate.

My assertion that you must look into build up cost comparison was that this KIND of project is a MUST for our main cities so building it today is much better than tomorrow, just like KalaBagh Dam, hence you need to consider the build cost comparison and can not be treated as sunk cost for this comparison so I can not agree with your discount factor rate of less than 1, this is a bookish argument and we are discussing political feasibility which does not strictly adhere to economic principles.

 

[GeoG]

PTI pressure is not in mainly Lahore & Sialkot. In Rawalpindi city NA 54,55,56 & Islamabad 48,49 PTI has got a massive support. It would be a shocker to PML-N. How could you forget Multan (SMQ & JH)

If you talk about Rawalpindi, no one has ever done more work than Sh Rasheed but people blasted him for supporting Pervaiz Musharraf.
Sh Rasheed 2 projects TB hospital & sheikh rasheed express way were abandoned by PML-N. PML-N promised the elevated Murree Road and Circular Road, none fulfilled.

In hospitals, MRI machines are not working and people are getting it done privately by Paying a minimum Rs 10,000. Even the Brufen syrup is not present the copy of Brufen (Lal sharbat) is given and that too for 1 day medicine. 6 babies are put on a single machine. Medical tests are not done in the hospitals and they are referred to Labs. The owner of the famous "Citi Lab" is now a expected candidate for MPA.

+ PML-N workers ransacked the Holyfamily hospital's ICU in medica unit on death of their relative and destroyed the oxygen supply pipelines. No action taken by Punjab Govt.

For hepatitis C patients, PegInteron (Interferon) by Schering Plough was given by Baitul Maal to the patients has been stopped 3 years back. The course valued Rs 3laks. Now patients buy chinese medicine for Rs 28,000 but does not guarantee cure.
Crime is at peak, FIRs are never lodged. Its a little about good governance.

As you are writing a First Hand Information,
Apologies for missing Rawalpindi in that, although by-elections did not reflect that sentiment...

 

[Charge Sheet]

This project has not been financed by International Funding so their return is irrelevant, just a cost per mile for the buses which will be incorporated int he operating costs. KIBOR is much higher than LIBOR these days so in your evaluation you need the set the basis on which you want to carry on your discussion. You have yourself covered the inflation costs by hike in fares, assuming these fare hike is co-related with inflation, normally govts keep it higher than inflation rate.

My assertion that you must look into build up cost comparison was that this KIND of project is a MUST for our main cities so building it today is much better than tomorrow, just like KalaBagh Dam, hence you need to consider the build cost comparison and can not be treated as sunk cost for this comparison so I can not agree with your discount factor rate of less than 1, this is a bookish argument and we are discussing political feasibility which does not strictly adhere to economic principles.

You wanted to be technical and now you are disregarding technical discussion by calling it bookish. For discout factor less than one, please search internet and send a "SINGLE" discount table where the PV of even 1% discount rate is even = 1 in year 1.

As the project is in Pakistan, LIBOR is irrelevant and KIBOR is applicable for all projects.

Sunk cost is only cost accounting prespective and I am absolutely not discussing it. I am discussion FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT which deals with the feasibillity & evaluation of the projects. For that you have to calculate NPV.

You please dont beat about the bush.

 

[Charge Sheet]

KalaBagh Dam is important. But are you comparing Kala Bagh v/s Bus route ???

Priorities my friend priorites.

 

[nomi304]