Rameez Chaudhry
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
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Javaid Hashmi praising Altaf Hussain & MQM
- Thread starter Rameez Chaudhry
- Start date
Liaqat Hussain
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
اس پاگل بڈھے کا کوئی دین ایمان ہے؟
haqiqath
Senator (1k+ posts)
Javed hashmi same person involved in mehran bank scandal.Yousaf memon,centrel charachter of mehran bank scandal,has said that javed hashmi was given money to support general aslam baig and his strategic doctorine,He further said that because of this money he bought the house of F-62.The mansion in multan was also bought by the same money.http://www.topstoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/nawaz-hashmi.jpg THIS MAN IS Highly paid IMPLANTED BY PML-N INSIDE PTI for their dirty desires.
bisaat
Banned
most funny thing is now an elite class party PTI is using MQM's slogan of middle class
Welcome back. Why did the site nazis ban you?
who is raising the slogan? Who is middle class?
I like that AH is cutting down the middle class MQMers who started to graduate into the 'elite class'
By the way the other day I posted a video link of Haider Abbas Rizvi from the CNBC Pak show with Mujahid B, Shahzad and Moiz. He talked about what led to the recent upheavals inside MQM. His views were completely in contradiction of your assessment and surprisingly he basically validated my "ummat style conspiracy theories" that it had its roots in what has been going on at the national stage ;-)
Thats why they say 'jab pata naa ho tu bolay mattee!" ;-)
Anyway, enjoy your time back.
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bisaat
Banned
thanks for the welcome
well i was banned for speaking the truth, how bitter truth maybe, but truth is nothing less nothing more, only whats the reality, they don't like my truths so they banned me, now it can be called racist, this or that, but its the truth? anyways
i have a very different analysis to all these classes, i consider middle class, lower class, elite class to be a state of mind rather than mundane weighing of money. how much can it define that you are an elite class or a middle class or a lower class?. does life style indicates that? or anything else?. in my perception middle class is a state of mind. when you graduate to become a qualified physician or anything else, you naturally earn money, you climb up the ladder of success and you become what you say 'elite class'
well my friend, i maybe what you can classify as upper class or elite class, my living style may also reflect that reality, but we were not people born with a silver spoon, we worked our way up and worked hard, and still work hard, nobig industries, no political or you say haram influence to make me a super rich
people like us, you know you and me and other people have their humble beginnings, and slow starts, we have seen our bad days and humble days, poverty etc, people like us are mentally middle class, or the struggling class, people like us know the importance of it and we respect people who are below us, we are not so insensitive?, so my friend, i consider elite class only those people, who are previliged by birth, who are wealthy enough not to understand the miseries of people living below us, who are insensitive
people like me and you are not stupids, we know the social fabric of the majority of people who live in this poor city, we still try to spend money wisely, we don't throw away money for granted
imran khan always says that allah has given him everything and may allah bless him more, but people like imran and the class which follows him will never understand the misery of our struggling people, the hardships of life, they will use us and throw us away when they fullfill their needs, imran and many of his die hard followers belong to previliged class, we all know that reality
Haider Abbas may speak what ever, but the truth is, people like you will never consider MQM's word as holy bible, you will only take what's for your interest and discard the rest. i don't argue that Haider may be right or wrong, but few facts tell me that it has to do with the outcome of the election results, Altaf got shocked when there were anti MQM votes,
even though PTI is completely finished as far as Karachi is concerned because us educated citizens of this city have found the bitter reality about the sort of revolution imran khan was drumming about, the hard way, MQM still fears that it needs to correct its mistakes to not have a dent on its base camp
secondly MQM actions are not shocking at all, its the history of the party that it kicks out black sheep, through out its history, party always does self assessment, its their history, not just recent ones, so i think its a good step for everyone
elite class was never a problem for the MQM, performance was, those elite class persons who are working hard for the party, why would they get the cutting? only those people who are not performing, what altaf expects them to, whether elite or middle class, all will be equally shipped out
i hope u didn't like my essay too tiring
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bisaat
Banned
on MQM perspective, i wont comment on some one's political decisions and whether he is political right or wrong, but Javed Hashmi was one rare sensible guys in the PTI, and i really didn't like the way he was kicked out by Imran Khan. well if imran decided to take in him, and made him president, he should have given him importance. whether or not what hashmi reveals abt imran is correct or not, but one fact that shah mahmood qureshi was given importance over hashmi looks like a solemn truth.<br><br>hahsmi maybe one of those many traditional faces but one things is certain that, his political tolerance and his deep thoughts and understandings is very rare in Punjab<br><br>if Punjab had produced more politicians like hashmi we may even not have seen the 1971 debacle, presently Pakistan is further divided, so as i said that hashmi is a very cool minded and very democratic i should say kind of politician and a rare one from Punjab.<br><br>now his political statements in regards to MQM maybe pleasing now, but i will never forget that his words of support for MQM during that very critical and fragile time of MQM was very touching, and from that day i started him taking in a serious manner<br><br>in politics what is normally done in Pakistan is politics of confrontation and intolerance, in real politics there is lots of tolerance and open mindedness and politics of reconciliation<br><br>i never understood MQM politics before that why it joins every single government, but than i thought deeply and i thought what if MQM had opposed every govt, because they could never form govt themselves, they would naturally be expected to take a confrontaitonal course and bad mouth every other party like what imran normally is doing, he is not sparing not a single politician even if he maybe as tiny in stature as achakzai<br><br>just when i think that javed hashmi's policy was most needed for PTI, it got rid of him, and i think hashmi's politics was very contrary to what PTI was doing that is confrontational politics<br><br>and in this manner MQM and hashmi's have similarities, i dunno if he is middle class or not, but this very philosophy of politics is what is needed the most in Pakistan, only few politicians are doing this including MQM and hashmi<br><br>hashmi joins MQM or not, but we need people like him in Punjab to save this country as some guy said that Punjab is the key and that is why PTI is looking at it with greedy eyes, otherwise there is no future for it
everyone calls hashmi a baghi or a rebel but nobody has really understood what he really is and what he can contribute
Punjabis, mohajirs, Balochs, Pashtuns all have bad blood from 65 years and we really need politicians who can reconcile and tolerate and understand each other and accept each other existance and stop thinking about conquering each other, if we just dialogue and pay respects and accept each other's existebce than we have a saved country otherwise not
now you would say that since hashmi is praising MQM, im praising him, believe me its not the case, there have been very opportunist politicians who keep buttering MQM but the true friend is in the truthfulness and purity
everyone calls hashmi a baghi or a rebel but nobody has really understood what he really is and what he can contribute
Punjabis, mohajirs, Balochs, Pashtuns all have bad blood from 65 years and we really need politicians who can reconcile and tolerate and understand each other and accept each other existance and stop thinking about conquering each other, if we just dialogue and pay respects and accept each other's existebce than we have a saved country otherwise not
now you would say that since hashmi is praising MQM, im praising him, believe me its not the case, there have been very opportunist politicians who keep buttering MQM but the true friend is in the truthfulness and purity
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You are welcome. It is always helpful to have dissenting voices. It makes for healthy and a progressive society and forces people to re-evaluate their positions.
So even though we differ on a lot of points I don't mind you on here at all and in fact would encourage you to speak your mind as long as you are generally following the forum rules. But theese admins are not consistent in how they apply these rules. Anyways, our difference aside I am glad that you are back.
Since I don't know specifically what you were banned for I would not be able to comment - though I have seen some high handedness from the admins sometime so I know what are you saying. But at the same time their job is difficult too.
Few things. I guess even after our multiple encounters I have a suspicion that you think that I am a PTI or IK supporter. I wouldn't expect you to read my posts but if you had then your suspicions would quickly fizzle away.
Having got that out of the way....lets talk about these classes. I kind of agree with you on a very high level even though I see a few problems with your theory.
It seems that you are defining elite classes as an impenetrable bubble that you and I can't get burst into. That may have been true a while back but given the current dynamics it seems that the only two criteria to be part of this club is money and/or power. Thats it!
I agree with you that its mostly a state of mind to be part of that group of the super elites. You don't have to be born rich or into a super elite family. You can graduate into that club provided you have enough power or money or both and the desire to feel that you have a control over commoners who are not that well endowed either with money or power. I think that these terms are misleading.
Let me ask you a question - are all military generals part of the elite? A young kid being recruited from a small village in central punjab rise to become a 4 star general in the army. He comes from humble beginnings but he reaches the highest echelons of power in the country. Now would you consider him part of the elite? What if he abhors power and is not interested in influencing others' lives around him? He is a true professional who does his job and then looks forward to living a good retired life albeit funded by you and I. But the question is that the elite you are talking about? Is it just the power an money? Or a desire to influence the fate of others - the commoners like you and me and everyone else who don't wield that power or has the money to buy influence.
I also think that you are confusing that PTI is an elitist party. You may think that because of IK's background and how he carried himself. I still think that if he had not been popular outside of pakistan where even goras seem to be impressed by his looks or that alpha male appeal then he would have been successful in Pakistani politics. We have this thing where we are in love with anyone who can impress the goras. There is no doubt that he was a great cricketer that the world has ever seen and a good leader of men on the cricket field but he is ill-suited to lead a popular political movement. No matter how hard he tries and he has changed himself a lot and tries to live a simple life and be humble but that background and the aitchison bug does seem to bite once in a while. The same bug bites the military officers because they are taught in the academies that they are better and superior than the 'bloody civilians' outside the compound of their academies.
The other thing is that if you are terming PTI supporters as elites then you are mistaken and showing that you are not looking beyond the pictures of the dharna. KPK largely is not an elitist society and PTI has a lot of support there. In fact I know a pushtun guy from what you could call an almost elite family with military generals and provincial ministers say to me before the elections that we don't know what IK is doing and where he will end up because he is taking tailors and street vendors as party officials. My point is that what you see in PTI support is what you can call popular support. These people were not part of power structures that are built over years if not decades around the MPAs or MNAs or whatever. These people are supporting PTI because they think that the country is ripe for change and they only hear PTI talking about change. They don't understand the dynamics and may be confused in other ways but what attracted them to this party is the slogan of change. Mind you that if you introduce another party with similar message then you will see similar crowd because thats what pakistan is today - in Punjab or KPK or maybe even Karachi. You and I may be stuck back in time but things have changed.
In my view terming PTI an elitist party is wrong.
I don't know man. I heard it from the horse's mouth and I relayed onto you. You could dig up the archive and check it out yourself. If you are adamant that you know more about what happened than the RC member Haider Rizvi then what can I say :-) More power to you.
I like that MQM throws out these people but the thing is that we never find out what they had done and in fact until they are thrown out everyone defends them and in fact the party line is that there is no one invovled in bhatta, or land grabbing or china cutting. Until AH comes on TV and indirectly chides these elements in the party so much so that he threatens to quit because of them.
As for the elections I believe that it will be tough for MQM to hold on to its majority far too long because they don't have a Mustafa Kamal as the mayor and even though I hate these flyovers to get votes I still think that all politics is local after all and people want to see some progress on that front. I believe thats what hurt MQM along with the violence in the last elections. Plus their on again off again love affair with PPP. Next time around they see their mandate shrinking a little more. It may not happen in the strongholds like shah faisal, or district central or parts of west or north or parts of east. But south will be up for grabs more and some parts of central too - like N'Nazimabad and parts Nazimabad or FB Area and Gulshan and adjoining areas with its increasingly diverse population. The votes may not go to PTI but may still divide the vote. It all depends if PTI doesn't completely implode by the next elections.
Sorry for my rambling - see this is what you get in response for a long post :-)
Well, you are giving him too much credit.
He is an average guy by any standard and is exposing himself even more. Lets see if goes full circle and ends up at PMLn. What I don't get is why doesn't he say goodbye and go home and relax. Its obvious that he is not physically fit or mentally/emotionally stable to be representing people in a legislative assembly.
A guy who has not figure what he really wants from his politics even after 40+ years is useless in my books.
What disappointed is that false sense of greatness. Its all around - with TUQ, with Zardari, with IK, with NS, with SS, with AH, with Asfandyar....
I consider all of these half baked leaders or politicians and javed hashmi is no exception.
Btw, he still hasn't clarified his connections with that advocate guy who was the frontman of younus habib.
bisaat
Banned
there is one thing you forego about AH
1) he made his entire career himself
2) he was not priviliged meaning he didn't have the correct leverage as others had so yeah he is really some leader to rise from bottom to the top
3) qadri is a known maulvi his reputation is undisputed there, imran is cricketer, his reputation is undisputed there, rest like asfand is son of bacha khan, zardari married benazir the daughter of bhutto, NS and SS as we both know were raised up by establishment
regarding your comments about hashmi being average, its surprising why an average politician was made president of PTI, esp an elected one, an average politician of PTI holding such high post is beyond me
bisaat
Banned
well to be honest very difficult to say now, simply because we don't know how PTI emerges from this current scenario, yes there is fan following of Imran Khan in Karachi, he bloody won us the famous 1992 world cup, but lets just for a second minus imran khan from PTI and look whats left of it? nothing practically, same shah mehmood qureshi same other politician
secondly PTI's performance in KPK is very bad, to gain any political strength PTI only has to prove in KPK now
you are right about mustafa kamal but right now, sharjeel memon controls the city of Karachi and not MQM, most of the karachiites don't get this simple fact
Karachi's mandate as you see doesn't need to depend on little things like inclusion in PPP etc because MQM representatives are always on the ground in touch with the people
with my limited knowledge it may sound strange but the party has infect made a huge inroads in non mohajir areas esp pashtun, and baloch areas, biggest proof is MQM winning kaemari seat and one pashtun quaidabad seat
you will be surprised if MQM in next election spares no karachi seat for any other party
you don't normally see a political party running one of the largest ambulance system in one of the largest cities of the world, this very fact my friend distinguishes MQM and Karachi politics from others
in the last elections, the votes were given to imran khan not PTI, this time people will be a little more braineier and vote for PTI not imran khan
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Well, that tells you the political acumen of PTI and IK.
Given his maverick and unstable nature I would have never made him anything except for some honorary position.
You are right that AH is a self-made leader but that doesn't mean that he is a good leader and is not inflicted with the same bug that almost every leader in Pakistan - whether he a political, religious or miliary one, is bitten by the same bug. You may disagree as AH is your leader and I am sure there
are PTI and PMLn supporters who would disagree but thats just the plain fact and is the sole reason that we are in this mess as a country.
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