Is the Aerial bombardment of Tribal areas the right strategy

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Siasati

Guest
Two days ago pakistani army started a military operation by bombing Bajaur which was previously cleared of miltants and also bombed south waziristan yesterday. I Personally feel that as long as you don't have the boots on the ground you are not going to have long term success in tribal areas.
 

lahori

Senator (1k+ posts)
Let's just recap, the waziris/taliban are attacking Pakistan because they say the drone attacks are killing their children .............our answer to that is aerial bombing?

How about accepting the fact that America was wrong in this war, how about trying to get them to pay for the damages and setting a timeline to leave everything to a muslim army, which will be more acceptable to the afghans?

How about telling the Americans, "NO DRONES. If drones will be used it will be by us"??

How about taking the justification and the moral advantage (among the NWFP population) away from the leadership of the Taliban and making their recruitment tougher ......and then going after them?

Instead of killing many civillians in the process and making the problem bigger for us by increasing the Taliban numbers?

Right now we have public support and sympathy in most of Pakistan. If our army starts killing civillians accidentally they become the villains once again and public opinion will drive another ceasefire.

We need to tackle the real problem and that is american presence in Afghanistan.
 

Zaidi Qasim

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Why Waziris are against Pakistan ? or to more specific against Pakistani Army ? They don't see this is an army Belongs to the people of Pakistan. They see it is another extension of American desire to control the Afghanistan and if tribal areas come in their way, they like Pakistani Army to kill as many as they could by using arms supplied by Americans. Remember, it is no more than 7 months ago, when Pakistani army declared Baitul allah Masood as being a petriotic Pakistani. Do you guys remember that ? And that was in the reply of Indians concerns of attacking Pakistan. But I guess the time has changed now and so is this selfishness of Pakistani Blood of these leaders and generals. They like American dollars, their women and their way of life. Remember , these are the same tribal people who fought to get this piece of land from India you call Azad Kashmir.Their hearts beat with Pakistan but their families and their elders and their children are being killed by Amercian drones which are supported by this Pakistani Army Generals and our own political leaders. And they are killing innocent people on the name of fighting Terrorism. I don not see it is different than what Isrealis are doing to Palestinians. If you need to grab the culprits of those who are behind killing Americans in Afghanistan and somehow you think they are hidding in Pakistan, you have the control of the area and you have your security personnels in those areas.Instead of aerial bombardment, they should seek to arrest those and bring them in to the justice ( its funny they will trial them for killing American forces) and avoid killing innocent civilians who have nothing to do with this great game . But if you continue to do that and being pushed by greed of American dollars and help, you would definately get these suicide attacks and more killing of innocent people right around your cities. This country also belongs to the tribal peoples , they are also pakistanis and they have a right to demand their army to defend their houses and places and their families being killed by this unacceptable intrusion of foreign aircrafts manned or unmanned. But if this army can't protect them and leave them on the mercy of foreign attacks, the writting is on the wall. They have a right to defend themselves any way they can think of. And that includes attacking Pakistani Army ( which is being used as a mercenary Army by American). As far as the Talibans are concern,They can be easily defeated and there is no need for the drone attacks which generates more hatred aonmg tribal people .
 

contra

Senator (1k+ posts)
1. One solution to this problem is that Pakistan should declare these areas NWFP, FATA as independent and no longer a part of Pakistan.

2. This way you can prevent your army from going inside these areas, and the burden would then fall on NATO & Afghan army.
 

raju

Senator (1k+ posts)
So u think that a 1000 + dead bodies of militants ( muslims ) , and 500 + of military man (muslims ) will solve the problem , childishly insane thinking it is ! thats what everyone wants , usa or india , thats what they want ! and u r unintentionally following their agenda .

we all know that american presence in afghanistan is the base of all troubles in the northern region of pakistan . Usa got india involved in afghanistan in 2003-5 . We all know who funds the militants , who trains them !

then why r we waiting , why dont we take action against the head office intead of attacking the area branches .

but lol , we r supplying them logistics / arms / our rare bottom to be kicked on and whatever we can to keep them at ease in every possible manner .

Down with this policy and its followers !

If pak army / govt. is sincere with its ppl than it should stand against the allied forces in afghanistan right now .
 

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
contra said:
1. One solution to this problem is that Pakistan should declare these areas NWFP, FATA as independent and no longer a part of Pakistan.

2. This way you can prevent your army from going inside these areas, and the burden would then fall on NATO & Afghan army.


--Realistic approach was meant not some mythical and laughable theory :oops: :D .All would be fine if America and Nato Immediately leave the region which they have been illegally occupying for the past couple of years :ugeek:
 

shaheedchoudry

Minister (2k+ posts)
contra said:
1. One solution to this problem is that Pakistan should declare these areas NWFP, FATA as independent and no longer a part of Pakistan.

2. This way you can prevent your army from going inside these areas, and the burden would then fall on NATO & Afghan army.
WAH G WAH G, WHAT A SOLUTION. WITH THE SAME TOKEN, LETS DECLARE HIMACHAL NOT A PART OF INDIA AND LET CHINA DO WHAT EVER THEY WISH.
ON YOUR SECOND POINT, DO U BELIEVE THAT NATO AND ADGAN ARMY IS WINNING THE WAR IN AFGANISTAN? :roll:
 

srtalha

Citizen
by contra on Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:35 am

1. One solution to this problem is that Pakistan should declare these areas NWFP, FATA as independent and no longer a part of Pakistan.

2. This way you can prevent your army from going inside these areas, and the burden would then fall on NATO & Afghan army

Very Good Contra:
What a beautiful Solution, FATA & NWFP is part of Pakistan from day first.

What about "Tamil Nadu , Asam, Jammu & Kashmir,Manipur ,Meghalaya,Nagaland,Punjab,Tripura, Arunachal Pradesh"


India Should also declare these areas as independent and no longer the part of India.
 

taggtow

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Pakistan: The South Waziristan Migration
STRATFOR's Intelligence
October 14, 2009 | 1812 GMT


Global Security and Intelligence Report

By Scott Stewart

Pakistan has been a busy place over the past few weeks. The Pakistani armed forces have been conducting raids and airstrikes against the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and other foreign Islamist fighters in Bajaur Agency, a district inside Pakistans Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), while wrapping up their preparations for a major military offensive into South Waziristan. The United States has conducted several successful missile attacks targeting militants hiding in areas along the Afghan-Pakistani border using unmanned aerial vehicles.

Threatened by these developments especially the actions of the Pakistani military the TTP and its allies have struck back. They have used larger, vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices (VBIEDs) in attacks close to their bases in the Pakistani badlands to conduct mass-casualty attacks against soft targets in Peshawar and the Swat Valley. They have also used small arms and small suicide devices farther from their bases to attack targets in the twin cities of Rawalpindi and Islamabad, the respective seats of Pakistans military and civilian power.

Initially, we considered devoting this weeks Security and Intelligence Report to discussing the tactical details of the Oct. 10 attack against the Pakistani army headquarters. But after taking a closer look at that attack, and the bigger mosaic it occurred within, we decided to focus instead on something that has not received much attention in the media namely, how the coming Pakistani offensive in South Waziristan is going to have a heavy impact on the militants currently living and training there. In fact, we can expect the Pakistani offensive to cause a large displacement of militants. Of course, many of the militants who are forced to flee from South Waziristan, the epicenter of Pakistans insurgency, will likely land in areas not too far away like Balochistan but at least some of the militants who will be flushed out of South Waziristan will land in places far from Pakistans FATA and North-West Frontier Province.
The Coming Offensive

The Pakistani military has been preparing for the coming offensive into South Waziristan for months. They have positioned two divisions with some 28,000 troops for the attack, and this force will be augmented by paramilitary forces and local tribal militias loyal to Islamabad. As seen by the Pakistani offensives in Swat and Bajaur earlier this year, the TTP and its foreign allies are no match for the Pakistani military when it turns its full resources to address the problem.

The Pakistanis previously attempted a halfhearted offensive in South Waziristan in March of 2004 that only lasted 12 days before they fell back and reached a negotiated peace settlement with the militant leaders in the area. A negotiated peace settlement is a diplomatic way of saying that the Pakistanis attempted to pay off Pakistani Taliban leaders like Nek Mohammed to hand over the foreign militants in South Waziristan and stop behaving badly. The large cash settlements given to the militants did little to ensure peace and instead allowed the Taliban leaders to buy more weapons, pay their troops and essentially solidify their control in their areas of operation. The Taliban resumed their militant activities shortly after receiving their payments (though the most prominent leader, Nek Mohammed, was killed in a U.S. missile strike in June 2004).

This time, the South Waziristan offensive will be far different than it was in 2004. Not only do the Pakistanis have more than four times as many army troops committed to it, but the Pakistani military has learned that if it uses its huge airpower advantage and massed artillery, it can quickly rout any serious TTP resistance. In Bajaur, the Pakistanis used airstrikes and artillery to literally level positions (and even some towns) where the Taliban had tried to dig in and make a stand. Additionally, in January 2008, the Pakistani army conducted a successful offensive in South Waziristan called Operation Zal Zala (Earthquake) that made excellent progress and resulted in the loss of only eight soldiers in four days of intense fighting. This offensive was stopped only because Baitullah Mehsud and his confederates sued for peace a truce that they quickly violated.

The lessons of past military operations and broken truces in South Waziristan, when combined with the recent TTP strikes against targets like the army headquarters, have served to steel the will of the government (and particularly the military). Pakistani government sources tell STRATFOR that they have the intent and the ability to close the case for good. This means that there should be no negotiated settlement with the TTP this time.

Of course, we are not the only people who can anticipate this happening. The TTP and others like the al Qaeda core leadership know all too well what happened in Bajaur and Swat. They have also been watching the Pakistani military prepare for the South Waziristan offensive for months now. The TTP leadership realizes that if they attempt to stand and fight the Pakistani military toe-to-toe they will be cut to shreds. Because of this, we believe that the TTP will adopt a strategy similar to that used by the Taliban in the face of overwhelming U.S. airpower following the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, or that of the Iraqi military following the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Rather than fight in set-piece conventional battles to the bitter end and be destroyed, after some initial resistance the TTPs fighters will seek to melt away into the population and then conduct insurgent and terrorist strikes against the Pakistani military, both in the tribal regions and in Pakistans core regions. This is also the approach the TTP leadership took to the Pakistani offensive in Swat and Bajaur. They made noises about standing and fighting in places like Mingora. In the end, however, they melted away in the face of the militarys offensive and most of the militants escaped.
Afghan/Pakistani Border

Contrary to popular perception, the area along the Afghan-Pakistani border is fairly heavily populated. The terrain is extremely rugged, but there are millions of Pakistanis living in the FATA, and many of them are extremely conservative and hostile toward the Pakistani government. This hostile human terrain poses perhaps a more significant obstacle to the Pakistani militarys operations to root out jihadists than the physical terrain. Accurate and current population numbers are hard to obtain, but the government of Pakistan estimated the population of South Waziristan to be nearly 500,000 in 1998, although it is believed to be much larger than that today. There are also an estimated 1.7 million Afghan refugees living on the Pakistani side of the border. This human terrain should enable many of the TTPs Pashtun fighters to melt into the landscape and live to fight another day. Indeed, the militants are already heavily embedded in the population of South Waziristan, and the TTP and its rivals have controlled much of the area for several years now.

We have seen reports that up to 200,000 people have already fled areas of South Waziristan in anticipation of the coming military operation, and it is highly likely that some TTP fighters and foreign militants have used this flow of displaced people as camouflage to leave the region just as they did in Swat and Bajaur. Whether the coming offensive is as successful in destroying the TTP as our sources assure us it will be, the military action will undoubtedly force even more militants to leave South Waziristan.
The Camps

In the wake of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, the many militant training camps run by al Qaeda and other organizations in Afghanistan were destroyed. Many of the foreign jihadists who were at these camps fled to Pakistan with the Taliban, though others fled to Iran, Iraq or elsewhere. This migration shifted the focus of jihadist training efforts to Pakistan, and South Waziristan in particular. Quite simply, there are thousands of foreign jihadists who have traveled to Pakistan to receive paramilitary training at these camps to fight in Afghanistan. A smaller number of the trainees have received advanced training in terrorist tradecraft, such as bombmaking, in the camps.

Due to the presence of these transplanted training installations, South Waziristan is jihadist central, with jihadists of all stripes based in the area. This confluence will complicate Islamabads attempts to distinguish between good and bad Taliban elements. Both the good Taliban aligned with Islamabad that carry out their operations in Afghanistan and the bad Taliban fighting against Islamabad are based in South Waziristan, and telling the difference between the two factions on the battlefield will be difficult though undoubtedly elements of Pakistani intelligence will attempt to help their Taliban friends (like the Haqqani network and Mullah Omars network) avoid being caught up in the coming confrontation.

There are literally thousands of Arab, Uzbek, Uighur, Chechen, African and European militants currently located in the Pakistani badlands, and a good number of them are in South Waziristan. Many of these foreigners are either teaching at or enrolled in the jihadist training camps. These foreigners are going to find it far harder to hide from the Pakistani military by seeking refuge in Afghan refugee camps or small tribal villages than their Pashtun brethren.

Some of these foreigners will attempt to find shelter in North Waziristan, or perhaps in more heavily and more heterogeneously populated areas like Quetta (Mullah Omars refuge) or Peshawar. Others may try to duck into the Taliban-controlled areas of Afghanistan, but there is a good chance that many of these foreign militants will be forced to leave the Pakistan-Afghanistan area to return home or seek refuge elsewhere.

This exodus will have mixed results. On one hand it will serve to weaken the international jihadist movement by retarding its ability to train new jihadists until replacement camps can be established elsewhere, perhaps by expanding existing facilities in Yemen or Africa. On the other hand, it will force hundreds of people trained in terrorist tradecraft to find a new place to live and operate. In some ways, this migration could mirror what happened after the number of foreign jihadist began to be dramatically reduced in Iraq except then, many of the foreigners could be redirected to Pakistan for training and Afghanistan to fight. There is no comparable second theater now to attract these foreign fighters. This means that many of them may end up returning home to join insurgent movements in smaller theaters, such as Chechnya, Somalia, Algeria and Central Asia.

Those with the ability and means could travel to other countries where they can use their training to organize militant cells for terrorist attacks in much the same way the foreign fighters who fought in Afghanistan in the 1980s and left after the fall of the Soviet-backed government there went on to fight in places like Bosnia and Chechnya and formed the nucleus of al Qaeda and the current international jihadist movement.
The Next Generation

There is a big qualitative difference between the current crop of international fighters in South Waziristan and those who fought with the mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 1980s. During the earlier conflict, the foreigners were tolerated, but in general they were not seen by their Afghan counterparts as being particularly valiant or effective (though the Afghans did appreciate the cash and logistical help they provided). In many engagements the foreigners were kept out of harms way and saw very little intense combat, while in some cases the foreign fighters were essentially used as cannon fodder.

The perception of the foreigners began to change during the 1990s, and units of foreigners acquitted themselves well as they fought alongside Taliban units against the Northern Alliance. Also, following the U.S. invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, the foreign jihadists have proved themselves to be very effective at conducting terrorist attacks and operating in hostile territory.

In fact, over the past several years, we have witnessed a marked change in the ways the Afghan Taliban fight. They have abandoned some of their traditional armed assault tactics and have begun to employ al Qaeda-influenced roadside IED attacks and suicide bombings attacks the Afghan fighters had previously considered unmanly. It is no mere coincidence that the number of suicide attacks and roadside IED attacks in Afghanistan increased dramatically after al Qaeda began to withdraw its forces from Iraq. There is also a direct correlation between the IED technology developed and used in Iraq and that now being employed by the Taliban in Afghanistan.

All this experience in designing and manufacturing IEDs in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan means that the jihadist bombmakers of today are more highly skilled than ever, and they have been sharing their experience with foreign students at training camps in places like South Waziristan. Furthermore, the U.S. presence in Iraq and Afghanistan has provided a great laboratory in which jihadists can perfect their terrorist tradecraft. A form of tactical Darwinism has occurred in Iraq and Afghanistan as coalition firepower has weeded out most of the inept jihadist operatives. Only the strong and cunning have survived, leaving a core of hardened, competent militants. These survivors have created new tactics and have learned to manufacture new types of highly effective IEDs technology that has already shown up in places like Algeria and Somalia. They have been permitted to impart the knowledge they have gained to another generation of young aspiring militants through training camps in places like South Waziristan.

As these foreign militants scatter to the four winds, they will be taking their skills with them. Judging from past waves of jihadist fighters, they will probably be found participating in future plots in many different parts of the world. And also judging from past cases, they will likely not participate in these plots alone.

As we have discussed in the past, the obvious weakness of the many grassroots jihadist cells that have been uncovered is their lack of terrorist tradecraft. They have the intent to do harm but not the ability, and many times the grassroots cells end up finding a government informant as they seek help acquiring weapons or constructing IEDs. When these inept Kramer terrorists manage to get linked up with a trained terrorist operative, they can cause considerable damage.

The possibility of these militants conducting attacks or bringing much-needed capability to grassroots cells means that the South Waziristan migration, which has almost certainly already begun, will give counterterrorism officials from Boston to Beijing something to worry about for the foreseeable future.
 

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
@ taggtow



---Just another report like the picture and report provided by colin powell that left him only with shame and disgust :oops:
 

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