Generals are winning, politicians losing

Geek

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
ISLAMABAD: More than 20 million Pakistanis, nearly 12 percent of the entire population, are suffering. More than 160,000 square kilometres, or 20 percent of Pakistans landmass, are inundated. A million homes have been destroyed or damaged. Of the 50 million acres of cultivable area no less than 20 percent or 10 million acres of standing crops cotton, rice and sugarcane has been lost or severely damaged.
One out of every eight Pakistanis is at risk of severe diarrhoea, asthmatic attacks, dysentery, meningitis, hepatitis, skin diseases or a whole host of food and waterborne diseases. But, politics will be politics. Practical politics, perhaps, means ignoring facts. Within the PPP, the president and the prime minister are playing their own politics. The PM commits to a clean commission but the president shoots it down. In Punjab, PPP and PML-N are playing their own politics. Pakistans right is way ahead of the left in bailing out drowning children and comforting battered souls. At the international front, America is playing its own politics by giving and then advertising that Uncle Sam has given much more than has China or Iran combined. EU is playing its own politics by sending confusing signals of giving us trade breaks. India also wants to win a billion political miles by pledging a paltry $5 million.
At the camps, a battle for survival is raging like never before. Ten million Pakistanis need bread to continue to breathe; five million need shelter to hide and at least ten thousand diarrhea treatment centers. Domestic resource availability can sustain no more than a million hungry. Domestic response capacity is next to nothing. Foreign money isnt coming. Corruption, inefficiency, donor fatigue and an unpopular presidency are all playing villains.
While one-fifth of Pakistan drowns under water, Karachi, its financial hub, is cloaking itself under a bloody deluge. As MQM and ANP fight out their own bloodstained politics Pakistani Taliban are wining without even fighting.

Economy was sick to begin with now its severely anemic. Pakistan being unable to carry oxygen from its lungs to its tissues the IMF will now play its own politics. We are bound to miss IMF targets and structural reforms will now take a back seat. Rural unemployment and unprecedented inflation will be followed by widespread social unrest and crime.
On a much broader canvass, generals of Pak Army are winning hearts and minds and thus capturing more and more of the Pakistani political spaceall at the cost of the political class. Pak Air Force has diverted 5 C-130Bs and 7 C-130Es, its tactical transport aircraft, for picking and delivering flood relief to wherever its needed the most. Pak Navys boats are speeding through floodwaters delivering food and saving survivors still floating just above the water level. Right is winning by doing while the left talks. Generals are also winning by doing while politicians talk. Would the khakis take over? Answer: They did that several months ago.
 

Horseman

Voter (50+ posts)
1. First, please provide a source for this article.

The PM commits to a clean commission but the president shoots it down.
2. This is unsubstantiated information. These are classified as rumours.
How does the writer know and what proof does he/she have that your President shot it down?
If this article is from a newspaper, then it is really sad.
To run/print stories like these based on hearsay is bad journalism.
[I bet this article is from The Nation.]

India also wants to win a billion political miles by pledging a paltry $5 million.
3. India is a poor nation, 40% of our population is below poverty line. Don't expect 100's of millions of dollars from us.
We give what we can to our Pakistani brothers.

On a much broader canvass, generals of Pak Army are winning hearts and minds and thus capturing more and more of the Pakistani political space
UNBELIEVABLE!!! LOL!!!
4.a) What is happening here? How can you write this?
You are considering the elected government and the defense forces as separate independent entities...???

b) Lets take an example - the floods and landslides in China.
Here we see the PLA at the forefront of rescue operations. The army of any country is more organized and has resources available to carry out rescue operations.

c) You don't hear that the PLA is doing a better job than the Chinese government, do you? How can you consider these to be separate?

d) The defense forces are an organization that "Consume" national resources. Please understand this fact. They do not bring any revenue or create any wealth.

e) In your country, Pk, your defense forces consume almost 14% of your GDP...CONSUME

f) The money that should have gone towards better schools, better hospitals, better irrigation etc. are diverted towards the army.

g) You all are complaining about the budget allocated for foreign tours of your President, how many have question the purchase of billions of dollars worth of military equipment, not all of which can be used against the Taliban animals?

h) Why is no one asking these questions?

i) During the Musharraf government, most of the money you got from US was spent on the defense forces. How much money went towards schools? How many madrassas were closed and students transferred to government schools?

j) Your army chief just got an extension for 3 yrs. Who is the real ruler of your country?
Does this ruler have a vested interest in destroying the political parties and the reputation of the leaders?

k) The army uses your money, the tax payer of Pakistan's money. And then they behave as if they are doing a favour on you?
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
(clap)(clap)

Well written

Do our politician really deserve seats in parliament? Are they really worth the election? Is this what is democracy?

NOT

Gen Kyani should take action, shoot the entire cabinet of PPP and MQM, responsible for this political and social chaos in the country. Then he should shoot all ANP leaders, in Khyber and KHI

Once and for all. The general should do the nation a favor and earn a medal in the history of Pak Generals

And by the way, where is that corrupt Chief Justice? Why has he not take suo moto on traget killings? Scared or MQM/PPP may be??

The entire country is screwed up

There is time to be a nice guy, there is a time to get them all straighten out
 

Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
(clap)(clap)

Well written

Do our politician really deserve seats in parliament? Are they really worth the election? Is this what is democracy?


NOT

Gen Kyani should take action, shoot the entire cabinet of PPP and MQM, responsible for this political and social chaos in the country. Then he should shoot all ANP leaders, in Khyber and KHI

Once and for all. The general should do the nation a favor and earn a medal in the history of Pak Generals

And by the way, where is that corrupt Chief Justice? Why has he not take suo moto on traget killings? Scared or MQM/PPP may be??

The entire country is screwed up

There is time to be a nice guy, there is a time to get them all straighten out

First of all , Kiani looks the part of game.....

Gazo! I have great respect for u, but why u r saying rubbish for CJ.....I want to protest for this nonsense.... Please take your words back....

I am sure lots of others will also protest in a more severe way.
 
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LeftBrain

MPA (400+ posts)
(clap)(clap)

Well written

Do our politician really deserve seats in parliament? Are they really worth the election? Is this what is democracy?

NOT

Gen Kyani should take action, shoot the entire cabinet of PPP and MQM, responsible for this political and social chaos in the country. Then he should shoot all ANP leaders, in Khyber and KHI

Once and for all. The general should do the nation a favor and earn a medal in the history of Pak Generals

And by the way, where is that corrupt Chief Justice? Why has he not take suo moto on traget killings? Scared or MQM/PPP may be??

The entire country is screwed up

There is time to be a nice guy, there is a time to get them all straighten out

merey khayal se kuch ahmaq jo sirf internet par shor macha kar or fuzool plans or naqshey bana kar apney aap ko political analyst samajhtey hain, in sab ko shoot kar diya jaaye to Pakistan ke liye bohat acha ho ga!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Geek

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
1. First, please provide a source for this article.
This article is written by Dr . Farrukh Saleem, here is the link
http://thenews.com.pk/23-08-2010/ethenews/t-99.htm

2. This is unsubstantiated information. These are classified as rumours.
How does the writer know and what proof does he/she have that your President shot it down?
If this article is from a newspaper, then it is really sad.
To run/print stories like these based on hearsay is bad journalism.
[I bet this article is from The Nation.]


Our journalist and even common people know that who is calling shots in this government, and this is not the first time, there are plenty of occasions when PM said something in front of media, but he was unable to fulfill his promise.


3. India is a poor nation, 40% of our population is below poverty line. Don't expect 100's of millions of dollars from us.
We give what we can to our Pakistani brothers.
Dear, we don't expect anything from India except enmity, we don't need your assistance or money, it is really unfortunate that our government accepted this pledge under pressure. If they were real representative of nation they would never have accepted this money.

UNBELIEVABLE!!! LOL!!!
4.a) What is happening here? How can you write this?
You are considering the elected government and the defense forces as separate independent entities...???
I don't what makes you laugh, Indeed Governemt and Army are one entity, but here the writer is discussing role of politicians who are sitting and talkin, and Army is in the field helping people. People want to see there elected reps among them not miles away sitting in comfortable drawing rooms.

e) In your country, Pk, your defense forces consume almost 14% of your GDP...CONSUME
Don't know from where did you get these stats. Defense expenditure of India and Pakistan are same in the sense of GDP, but If you see the difference of both economies India is spending much more than Pakistan on it defense forces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

f) The money that should have gone towards better schools, better hospitals, better irrigation etc. are diverted towards the army.
As you said 40% of India's population lives below the poverty line, Is this suggestion only for Pakistan or also for India??

g) You all are complaining about the budget allocated for foreign tours of your President, how many have question the purchase of billions of dollars worth of military equipment, not all of which can be used against the Taliban animals?
We also have an enemy on our eastern borders.

i) During the Musharraf government, most of the money you got from US was spent on the defense forces. How much money went towards schools? How many madrassas were closed and students transferred to government schools?
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?41683-Pervaiz-Musharaf-Leaves-American-Anchor-Speechless!-Defending-Pak-Army!
 
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mrbaig

Senator (1k+ posts)
First of all , Kiani looks the part of game.....

Gazo! I have great respect for u, but why u r saying rubbish for CJ.....I want to protest for this nonsense.... Please take your words back....

I am sure lots of others will also protest in a more severe way.

No,he is right.What CJ has done so far.He has a deal with Govt:and agreement"Look busy do nothing".
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
First of all , Kiani looks the part of game.....

Gazo! I have great respect for u, but why u r saying rubbish for CJ.....I want to protest for this nonsense.... Please take your words back....

I am sure lots of others will also protest in a more severe way.

No need to protest. All judges are product of a corrupt society, it would be foolish to assume that they are immune from corruption.

There was a case in Lahore. The defendant was on TV. He said ' noton ki gaddian say bahut kuch ho sakta hai ' (or close to it). The very obvious case against him was dismissed. I have seen him on TV myself. If that judge can dismiss a case, what would make us think that others are not in the same category?

The CJ has obtained two plots in Islamabad illegally, whereas he was only authorized to have ONLY ONE. He used his asr-o-rosukh to do that. We would expect at least CJ to adhere to law.

He drives a mercedez Benz at the taxpayer's expense. I have no problem with that if tahts what law offers him. But the car is not supposed to have more than a specified size of cc. I heard his car far exceeds that limit of 1800 cc

You remember the famous event. At a dinner party, while cases against govt were in hearing, the PM arrived unannounced AND the CJ met him in private. How do we know there was no deal made against hearing of the NRO? If the CJ was honest, sincere, dignified, he would walked out of meeting and rebuked Aitezaz hassn who conspired the sudden arrival of Gillani

The night before Baber Awan appeared in supreme court, Gillani phoned the CJ. What was discussed? Again he shouldn't have talked to the PM. He could have even charged the PM with attempt to influence while a case was being heard.

How long has the NRO case dragged so far? How long has the petition against the article 248 dragged so far?

When he visited Peshawar, he immediately took a suo moto of a clerk, defenseless but corrupt. Because she could not defend herself.

How many suo moto has he taken of target killing? And what has he done? People are dying, investors have stopped investing due to the lack of peace. It has been proven over n over that ANP/MQM are the responsible people for destabilizing the city, why has he not ordered Gen Kyanai to take appropriate measures to ensure safety of our citizens?

He talks about writing letter to Swiss about Zaradri. How many letter has he sent to the Supreme Court of the UK to hand over Ah to Pak authorities for murder trial. There are potential witnesses in KHI that can testify, enough to convict MQM and AH but can not come forward fearing reprisals from MQM. How many of those people have been offered legal protections?

the ANP leader openly incited unrest in public, has he ordered his arrest? NOPE

My accusation of CJ as corrupt may not have sat well with you or others but attempt to refute what I have written above. But be honest.

 
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Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
No need to protest. All judges are product of a corrupt society, it would be foolish to assume that they are immune from corruption.

There was a case in Lahore. The defendant was on TV. He said ' noton ki gaddian say bahut kuch ho sakta hai ' (or close to it). The very obvious case against him was dismissed. I have seen him on TV myself. If that judge can dismiss a case, what would make us think that others are not in the same category?

The CJ has obtained two plots in Islamabad illegally, whereas he was only authorized to have ONLY ONE. He used his asr-o-rosukh to do that. We would expect at least CJ to adhere to law.

He drives a mercedez Benz at the taxpayer's expense. I have no problem with that if tahts what law offers him. But the car is not supposed to have more than a specified size of cc. I heard his car far exceeds that limit of 1800 cc

You remember the famous event. At a dinner party, while cases against govt were in hearing, the PM arrived unannounced AND the CJ met him in private. How do we know there was no deal made against hearing of the NRO? If the CJ was honest, sincere, dignified, he would walked out of meeting and rebuked Aitezaz hassn who conspired the sudden arrival of Gillani

The night before Baber Awan appeared in supreme court, Gillani phoned the CJ. What was discussed? Again he shouldn't have talked to the PM. He could have even charged the PM with attempt to influence while a case was being heard.

How long has the NRO case dragged so far? How long has the petition against the article 248 dragged so far?

When he visited Peshawar, he immediately took a suo moto of a clerk, defenseless but corrupt. Because she could not defend herself.

How many suo moto has he taken of target killing? And what has he done? People are dying, investors have stopped investing due to the lack of peace. It has been proven over n over that ANP/MQM are the responsible people for destabilizing the city, why has he not ordered Gen Kyanai to take appropriate measures to ensure safety of our citizens?

He talks about writing letter to Swiss about Zaradri. How many letter has he sent to the Supreme Court of the UK to hand over Ah to Pak authorities for murder trial. There are potential witnesses in KHI that can testify, enough to convict MQM and AH but can not come forward fearing reprisals from MQM. How many of those people have been offered legal protections?

the ANP leader openly incited unrest in public, has he ordered his arrest? NOPE

My accusation of CJ as corrupt may not have sat well with you or others but attempt to refute what I have written above. But be honest.


Very saaaaaaaaaad,

The same acquisitions as , Sialkot people did to kill two innocent brothers.

But it is ok, U can do it,
People are still against all the successful people, no need to mention....
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Very saaaaaaaaaad,

The same acquisitions as , Sialkot people did to kill two innocent brothers.

But it is ok, U can do it,
People are still against all the successful people, no need to mention....

I am glad you accepted the truth and facts
 

aqeel813

Minister (2k+ posts)
Very saaaaaaaaaad,

The same acquisitions as , Sialkot people did to kill two innocent brothers.

But it is ok, U can do it,
People are still against all the successful people, no need to mention....

Very valid points raised by Gazoo. Instead of saying very saaaaaaaaaaad, why dont you explain or negate the allegations or give some facts which may rule out these points??? Seriously, I was also one of the biggest supporter of CJ, but I am hopeless now. "Look busy, do nothing" or punjabi version, "kam nu chhaddo, meriaan AANIYAN JAANIAN waikho". And seriously when I hear CJ to demand "Moattally" suspension of the DPO sialkot, I am become really hopeless. You forgot the case fake degrees. I was surprised the CJ asking jamshaid dusti to resign. Kindly, will you explain k fake degree holders dobara election lad k assemblies mein kya ker rahay hen???
I have not seen a single outcome of any suomoto's or other cases. This forces me to believe all the points raised by Gazoo.
 

Horseman

Voter (50+ posts)
Geek bhai,
Don't know from where did you get these stats. Defense expenditure of India and Pakistan are same in the sense of GDP, but If you see the difference of both economies India is spending much more than Pakistan on it defense forces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures
1. You are right, 14% is an exaggerated figure and I am sorry to have written this earlier...(bigsmile)
However, i wouldn't trust wikipedia. SIPRI data is available only for subscribers and hence the original source as quoted in wikipedia cannot be verified.

2. Again, one thing we should remember is that your country got a lot of money from the US from 2002-2007. I don't think this money formed a part of your GDP.

As you said 40% of India's population lives below the poverty line, Is this suggestion only for Pakistan or also for India??
3. We are not perfect. But it is your country that is facing an existential threat...

(yapping)
 

Geek

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Geek bhai,
3. We are not perfect. But it is your country that is facing an existential threat...

We know this is the wish of India from very first day, and he doesn't miss any opportunity to create problems for Pakistan. But Pakistan is here to stay Insha'Allah your wish will not fulfill. We have faced worse situations before, we emerged victorious and we will again win these problems are nothing.

(yapping)

(yapping)(yapping)