DO JI hold the key for meaningful talks???ur thoughts

rtabasum2

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Talks with Taliban: empty claims by Sami and Fazl

Umer Farooq
522a84bc4c52a.jpg
JUI-F chief Maulana Fazlur Rehman. — File photo



ISLAMABAD: The provincial and federal governments are looking for clerics who may have influence with the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) as they no longer believe that the usual suspects such as Maulana Fazlur Rehman and Maulana Samiul Haq can prove to be of use.


In fact, the PML-N government at the centre and the PTI government in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa have not spoken to these two leaders about the proposed talks with the TTP since the second week of July.


Instead, the PML-N government in the centre and the PTI government in KP are trying to contact the Taliban leadership based in North Waziristan through lesser known religious leaders based in KP.


It is learnt that the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa government has started looking for clerics who still wield influence on Taliban ranks in tribal areas.


The official spokesmen of Maulana Fazlur Rehman’s JUI-F and Maulana Samiul Haq’s JUI-S confirmed this.


“The Nawaz Sharif government is not actively pursuing this issue any more,” said Maulana Yousaf Shah, the official spokesman of JUI-S.



Similarly, Jan Muhammad Achakzai, spokesman of JUI-F, said that the last meeting between Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Maulana Fazlur Rehman on this issue took place in the second week of July.


Yet, these two leaders have not stopped playing to the press galleries, giving statements about the talks and implying that they are still involved in behind-the-scenes talks.


Their ploys were lent further credence when the American Ambassador visited Maulana Sami in Akora Khattak in July.



“First the American Ambassador met Maulana Samiul Haq and requested him to play a role in contacting the Taliban and later Nawaz Sharif sent a special emissary to him (Haq). In the same month Imran Khan sent the Chief Minister, Pervez Khattak, to him to discuss the same issue,” Maulana Yousaf Shah said.


He claimed that “Maulana Samiul Haq can influence the attitudes and policies of Taliban if the government and the military can assure him about their peaceful intentions.”


But since July these two clerics have not been approached.


A senior federal government official confirmed that the Sharif government had not contacted Maulana Fazl on this issue since July.


In the past these two religious leaders had acted as mediators between the tribal militants and the Pakistan army.


For instance, security analyst Brig (retd) Shaukat Qadir said that in 2003-2004 the then crops commander Peshawar, Lt General (retd) Safdar Hussein, requested Maulana Sami to convince the militants to talk to the military.


“Initially the tribal jirga asked the militant commander Nek Muhammad to stop fighting but he didn’t listen. Then the Maulana convinced Nek to talk to the military,” said Brig (retd) Shaukat Qadir, adding that this “influence is now a thing of the past”.



Former military official and security analyst Brig (retd) Mehmood Shah agreed that in 2004 JUI leaders had acted as mediators between army and tribal militants but he had a different take on the results than Qadir. “Those talks failed primarily because JUI men created further misunderstandings,” said Shah, who was Secretary Fata at the time.


Experts say that in the past the main reason for this perception of influence was the Deobandi background of the Pakistani and Afghan Taliban.


However, with time these Deobandi ties have weakened.


Saleem Safi, a senior journalist who has written extensively on the Taliban, said that the Pakistani Taliban could no longer be called Deobandi outfit. “The Pakistani Taliban are now more influenced by the Al Qaeda-linked Arab Salafi groups, as well as Pakistani Salafi groups such as Lashkar-i-Taiba.”


“The influence of Deobandi religious scholars such as Maulana Samiul Haq is non-existent,” he added.


No wonder then that Maulana Fazl is no longer claiming that he can bring the Taliban to the negotiating table.

“Maulana can serve as guide to the Jirga, which will hold talks with the Taliban. He can guide the government on how to hold the talks with the Taliban,” says Achakzai.


He adds that “if any religious leaders think that they can tame the militant commanders on their own, they are wrong. Maulana Fazlur Rehman cannot tame all the militant commanders”.


As a result, the federal and provincial governments are now looking elsewhere.

A Peshawar-based senior journalist says that the KP chief minister told journalists in an off-the-record briefing that the government had made a mistake by reaching out to Samiul Haq.


Whether or not Maulana Sami realises what has happened, Maulana Fazl is aware of the changed stakes. In fact, the changed political realities have forced the wily Maulana to adapt quickly.


He now wants to sit on the government’s side of the negotiating table: “Maulana Fazlur Rehman can even
neutralise the Taliban’s religious and militant narratives,” says Jan Muhammad Achakzai.


The writer is a reporter with the Herald Source:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1041106/talks-with-taliban-empty-claims-by-sami-and-fazl
 
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pkpatriot

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Their Intentions are to Dis-Lodge the Kpk Govt.

With Greed inside no talks could be meaningful, PML-N is getting caught in FAZLU Trap.... Not good for them
 

Believer12

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
نواز گورنمنٹ کو زور لگا لینے دو جتنا یہ مذاکرات کے جھنجھٹ میں الجھتے جایئں گے انتا ھی ان کی حکومت کمزور ھوتی چلی جاے گی۔طالبان سے ڈیل صرف طاقت سے ھو سکتی ھے۔انکے پاوں پڑ کر نھیں۔
جو مولوی حکومت مذاکرات میں شامل کرنا چاھتی ھے وھ تو خود مفاد پرست ھیں اور ملک کی خاطر کچھ کرنے کیلیے بھی دو چار عھدے اور وزارتیں بشمول زرعی اراضی اور اسلام آباد میں پلاٹ یا بینگلو مانگ لیتے ھیں۔ایسے کاموں کا اسی لیے کوی نتیجہ نھیں نکلتا۔
آج بھی متنی میں کفار کی فائرنگ سے مسافر شھید ھوے ھیں تو پھر بھی مذاکرات کھیلنے والوں کو عوام گریبان سے نہ پکڑے گی تو اور کیاکرے گی۔معصوم شھری کفار کے ھاتھون شھید ھو رھے ھیں اور یہ بے غیرت مذاکرات کر رھے ھیں
بھترھوگا کہ کفار کو پکڑ کر لٹکائیں یا حکومت چھوڑ دیں
 

rtabasum2

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
نواز گورنمنٹ کو زور لگا لینے دو جتنا یہ مذاکرات کے جھنجھٹ میں الجھتے جایئں گے انتا ھی ان کی حکومت کمزور ھوتی چلی جاے گی۔طالبان سے ڈیل صرف طاقت سے ھو سکتی ھے۔انکے پاوں پڑ کر نھیں۔
جو مولوی حکومت مذاکرات میں شامل کرنا چاھتی ھے وھ تو خود مفاد پرست ھیں اور ملک کی خاطر کچھ کرنے کیلیے بھی دو چار عھدے اور وزارتیں بشمول زرعی اراضی اور اسلام آباد میں پلاٹ یا بینگلو مانگ لیتے ھیں۔ایسے کاموں کا اسی لیے کوی نتیجہ نھیں نکلتا۔
آج بھی متنی میں کفار کی فائرنگ سے مسافر شھید ھوے ھیں تو پھر بھی مذاکرات کھیلنے والوں کو عوام گریبان سے نہ پکڑے گی تو اور کیاکرے گی۔معصوم شھری کفار کے ھاتھون شھید ھو رھے ھیں اور یہ بے غیرت مذاکرات کر رھے ھیں
بھترھوگا کہ کفار کو پکڑ کر لٹکائیں یا حکومت چھوڑ دیں

But the Army is all over FATA but still cannot control terrorism, what else do u want them to do to stop this? don't u think 10 yrs of fighting is enough? when they say US got defeated in Afghanistan same is not true for Pakistan, both US and Pakistan suffered huge losses with no end in sight, if they r holding talks why cannot we? most of critic says that there is an undeclared seize fire between TTP and Army if there is an out right war do we have the capacity to take more damage. Mind u now TTP is spread in Karachi and whenever they want will target Punjab this time as well
 

jason

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The title mentions JI whereas there is no JI in the article,The talibans supposedly graduated from deobandi madressahs of JUI(s) and(F) are no longer influenced by these factions of JUI anymore and JI never have any influence on them for obvious reasons.
whether or not the heads of talibans are interested in peace or not we have to reasons which are the causes for holy jihad after the elimination of these reasons the support of taliban in tribal area can be weakened.
 

rtabasum2

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The title mentions JI whereas there is no JI in the article,The talibans supposedly graduated from deobandi madressahs of JUI(s) and(F) are no longer influenced by these factions of JUI anymore and JI never have any influence on them for obvious reasons.
whether or not the heads of talibans are interested in peace or not we have to reasons which are the causes for holy jihad after the elimination of these reasons the support of taliban in tribal area can be weakened.
See the connection have a readJI urges Taliban not to extradite Osama

ISLAMABAD (NNI): Jamaat-e-Islami has urged Afghanistan's Taliban not to hand over Saudi national Osama bin Laden to the United States or any other country.

The demand was made by Jamaat-e-Islami provincial Secretary General Sirajul Haq in a meeting with the acting Governor of Eastern Afghan province of Nangarhar Maulvi Sadr-e-Azam during his three-day visit to the war-ravaged Afghanistan, reports Radio Tehran.

Sirajul Haq assured every kind of help and support to the Taliban on behalf of the Jamaat. The Jamaat delegation pledged strong support to the Taliban on Osama bin Laden's issue and urged Taliban not to hand him over to the United States or any other country. However, it did not elaborate how the Jamaat can help in case of a possible attack or imposition of economic sanctions on Afghanistan.

The radio said that apart from Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman and Maulana Samiul Haq, the Jamaat-e-Islami led by Qazi Hussain Ahmed has also got closer to Afghanistan's Taliban.

Quoting the Afghan opposition forces, the radio said that thousand of fresh forces from Pakistan have joined Taliban amidst reports of the arrival of the chief of eastern zone of Afghanistan and the Governor of Nangarhar province, Haji Qadeer in Peshawar on an unofficial visit.

The radio said that Qadeer also visited the pro-Taliban Darul Uloom-e-Haqqania in Akora Khattak. Besides, Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam factions, the Jamaat-e-Islami has also strengthened relations with Taliban. It has described itself as a partner in the Afghan Jihad on account of martyrdom of thousands of Pakistanis and their burial in Afghanistan. However, only the factions of Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam, led by Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman and Maulana Samiul Haq came out in open support of Taliban after appearance of the latter on the political and military scene of Afghanistan.
 

jason

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
See the connection have a readJI urges Taliban not to extradite Osama

ISLAMABAD (NNI): Jamaat-e-Islami has urged Afghanistan's Taliban not to hand over Saudi national Osama bin Laden to the United States or any other country.

The demand was made by Jamaat-e-Islami provincial Secretary General Sirajul Haq in a meeting with the acting Governor of Eastern Afghan province of Nangarhar Maulvi Sadr-e-Azam during his three-day visit to the war-ravaged Afghanistan, reports Radio Tehran.

Sirajul Haq assured every kind of help and support to the Taliban on behalf of the Jamaat. The Jamaat delegation pledged strong support to the Taliban on Osama bin Laden's issue and urged Taliban not to hand him over to the United States or any other country. However, it did not elaborate how the Jamaat can help in case of a possible attack or imposition of economic sanctions on Afghanistan.

The radio said that apart from Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman and Maulana Samiul Haq, the Jamaat-e-Islami led by Qazi Hussain Ahmed has also got closer to Afghanistan's Taliban.

Quoting the Afghan opposition forces, the radio said that thousand of fresh forces from Pakistan have joined Taliban amidst reports of the arrival of the chief of eastern zone of Afghanistan and the Governor of Nangarhar province, Haji Qadeer in Peshawar on an unofficial visit.

The radio said that Qadeer also visited the pro-Taliban Darul Uloom-e-Haqqania in Akora Khattak. Besides, Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam factions, the Jamaat-e-Islami has also strengthened relations with Taliban. It has described itself as a partner in the Afghan Jihad on account of martyrdom of thousands of Pakistanis and their burial in Afghanistan. However, only the factions of Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam, led by Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman and Maulana Samiul Haq came out in open support of Taliban after appearance of the latter on the political and military scene of Afghanistan.
it is a very old news filed when talibans were in power in Afghanistan and is not relevant anymore. Talibans graduated mostly from darululoom akora khattak of sami ul haq madressah and never thought to be influenced by JI.
anyhow times have passed and i don't think that even samiulhaq or Fazal ur Rehman has so much influence over taliban which they enjoyed in the past.
 

rtabasum2

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
it is a very old news filed when talibans were in power in Afghanistan and is not relevant anymore. Talibans graduated mostly from darululoom akora khattak of sami ul haq madressah and never thought to be influenced by JI.
anyhow times have passed and i don't think that even samiulhaq or Fazal ur Rehman has so much influence over taliban which they enjoyed in the past.
They probably have soft corner for JI caz they openly supported Afghan Jihad and openly criticized Army on WOT, drones etc, lets see Fazal and Afsandyar hv alreay been targeted by TTP because of their dubious role in meditation, Munnawar Hassan and Siraj ul haq still holds quite a high esteem among the Taliban ranks caz of their stance and also JI international connections
 

jason

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
maybe fazal and other lost respect due to them becoming part of regimes who were persecuting WOT.And
you are right JI stand has been constant/never changed in this war but they had connections with Gulbadin hikmatyar and others.
You can also say that afghan version of talibans are more sensible compared to there pakistan version.
 

Malik Azam

Minister (2k+ posts)
Most of the ills we are facing in our society today; are the gifts of J.I.

J.I. supports and gives refuge to terrorists.
 

PTI-Karachi

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Nhi Fuzla kala Bheriya Sabhit hoga.... Is ko kesi bhi Chiz mai involve karna Pakistan k Nuqsaan mai hai....
 

Believer12

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
But the Army is all over FATA but still cannot control terrorism, what else do u want them to do to stop this? don't u think 10 yrs of fighting is enough? when they say US got defeated in Afghanistan same is not true for Pakistan, both US and Pakistan suffered huge losses with no end in sight, if they r holding talks why cannot we? most of critic says that there is an undeclared seize fire between TTP and Army if there is an out right war do we have the capacity to take more damage. Mind u now TTP is spread in Karachi and whenever they want will target Punjab this time as well
طالبان کو مالاکنڈ سے نکالا تھا آرمی نے یا نھیں ؟ وزرستان میں زیادھ مشکل ھوگا لیکن ناممکن نھیں۔امریکی کوی عقل کل بھی نھیں ھیں۔پاکستانی فوج ھی افغان وار کے پیچھے بھی ھے جس دن یہ ھاتھ کھینچ لیںگے طالبان ختم ھوجائیں گے انکی تو پوری قیادت ماری جاے گی کوی نام لیوا نھیں رھے گا۔ملا عمر اور اسکے ساتھی پاکستان میں نہ ھوتے تو امریکی انھیں کبھی بھی نہ چھوڑتے۔
جنگ وزیرستان میں ابھی تک لڑی ھی نھیں گئ پاک فوج صرف جنوبی وزیرستان سے طالبان کو ھانکا لگا کر شمال میں بھیج دیتی ھے مارتی نھین۔طالبان ناقابل شکست نھیں ھیں پاک فوج ھے جو انھیں ھوا بنا رھی ھے
رھے مذاکرات تو وھ آپ دس سال لگے رھیں انکا اختتام نھیں ھوگا۔
 

rtabasum2

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)

طالبان کو مالاکنڈ سے نکالا تھا آرمی نے یا نھیں ؟ وزرستان میں زیادھ مشکل ھوگا لیکن ناممکن نھیں۔امریکی کوی عقل کل بھی نھیں ھیں۔پاکستانی فوج ھی افغان وار کے پیچھے بھی ھے جس دن یہ ھاتھ کھینچ لیںگے طالبان ختم ھوجائیں گے انکی تو پوری قیادت ماری جاے گی کوی نام لیوا نھیں رھے گا۔ملا عمر اور اسکے ساتھی پاکستان میں نہ ھوتے تو امریکی انھیں کبھی بھی نہ چھوڑتے۔
جنگ وزیرستان میں ابھی تک لڑی ھی نھیں گئ پاک فوج صرف جنوبی وزیرستان سے طالبان کو ھانکا لگا کر شمال میں بھیج دیتی ھے مارتی نھین۔طالبان ناقابل شکست نھیں ھیں پاک فوج ھے جو انھیں ھوا بنا رھی ھے
رھے مذاکرات تو وھ آپ دس سال لگے رھیں انکا اختتام نھیں ھوگا۔
So who is at fault for last ten years than, ARMY?
 

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